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Underground > Creation >

The Barbelith Temple Presents: Vol 1

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04:26 / 09.05.07

a Goofus and Gallant of magic

Please oh please make that happen!

14:20 / 09.05.07

I'm currently wrestling with my abstract to get it tidy. I have however changed my mind about what I'm going to offer up. There's a lot of great sources on Pain Magic out there but not a huge amount on...well you'll have to wait and see.

14:31 / 09.05.07

Yay! XK is back!

Great topic, btw!

I am wrestling too with my abstract. Quite interestingly, the process of writing the abstract is really sharpening the practice I am chosing to write about, and allowing me to reaffirm the effectiveness of the techniques.

18:27 / 09.05.07

I have an idea I'd like to submit... but I find I'm struggling with exactly what an abstract should be. Help anyone? Is this an outline and an introduction? A scrap of the piece proper? An example of what direction we're aiming for?

19:41 / 09.05.07

Saturn's Nod posted a very well rounded abstract a few pages back here.

Most of the ones CAG has received seem to be doing a fine job with 1 or 2 paragraphs.
We basically want a topic and a mini walk through of how you are going to address it.

Does that help?

22:59 / 09.05.07

Wow, oops. Mine was basically three sentences I think.

15:06 / 10.05.07

Some people didn't bother at all and just sent a sample piece of the article. Don't stress too much about it, get writing!

I want Sibelian's totem illustrations. Want them!

15:13 / 10.05.07

Yes, we wants them!

Plus I'm fiddling with my abstract idea and fussing over it.

20:33 / 10.05.07

So when do CAG plan to get back to potential authors with feedback?

(Not intended to be nagging, but any form of uncertainty drives me sweaty. A ballpark estimate would be great, if possible. If not, that's cool too)

20:43 / 10.05.07

That helps alot, thank you everyone.

21:57 / 10.05.07

when do CAG plan to get back to potential authors with feedback?

A week or two I reckon, for a ballpark figure subject to revision. Don't sweat.

23:29 / 10.05.07

...although I haven't told the other CAGs that so shh, I'll see what I can do, put your application to the top of the pile and all that, coax them with shiny things to give you feedback ASAP, the squeaky wheel gets the grease etc.

17:50 / 16.05.07

I received an abstract today that is making me SQUEE like nobody's bidness.

However I've sent it to the other CAG folk via PM to see if it is within the stated guidelines. CAG please check your messages.

22:49 / 16.05.07

Just poking my head in to say, if anyone needs an illustration or two, PM me and say hi. I'm busy till next week, but as long as you aren't after the taj mahal I should be able to get things back to you pretty quickly.

19:29 / 17.05.07

How're the numbers looking on submissions?

It's going to be very interesting to see how it stacks up between 'lithers and off-board contributions, and to see where all the overlaps come about in terms of subjects and particulars that may not get aired in a reviewable/comparable way in the Temple forum.

19:40 / 17.05.07

well most of the off board folks want in now so it's a bit strange to calculate.

22:32 / 17.05.07

However I've sent it to the other CAG folk via PM to see if it is within the stated guidelines.

I have a concern that this is a bit exclusive. If people are submitting things which may not fall in the original remit it might be nice for Barbelith Temple contributors as a whole to discuss whether they think it should be included or not. As I understand it, the role of the CAG is not to specify content, but to assist contributors to edit their articles succesfully, and to generally edit the journal. I understood this to be an inclusive project, one thing that is very different from the kind of Gen Hex/Ultraculture type submissions of previous fame. For the CAG to decide content appropriateness rather goes against this inclusiveness, for me.

15:15 / 18.05.07

As I understand it, the role of the CAG is not to specify content, but to assist contributors to edit their articles succesfully

Hopefuly that's what we're doing, giving people feedback to keep the thing on topic. We haven't turned anyone away yet, we're mostly asking people to emphasise their experience and focus on magic. We can ask contributors if they'd mind folk here reading their abstract, and PM them to anyone who wants if it's an issue. I'm reluctant to post them in thread though, I'd rather they get seen in their full glory.
The piece in question is more scholarly than experiential (possibly) which is where the doubt came in, but I think it'll be great.

15:30 / 18.05.07

I PMed with the good Mr. Domino to clarify that my Goofus and Gallant would, if approved*, be more a demonstration of cultural appropriation as unnecessary, often confused/wrong, as well as silly and sometimes offensive. Something along the lines of (a) being a white guy in buckskins and feathered headdress swinging around a ceremonial pipe dedicated to a poorly hodgepodged skyfatherfigure and blessing people with a crystal-decorated, tao-pattern-dyed dreamcatcher, while (b) is a rezzer in a Ramones t-shirt and blue loose-cut suit, who works magick with the tip of his cigarette and listening to running water.

So somebody else might want to pick up a broader version of The Goofus and Gallant of Magick as Domino originally positioned it. Individual acts/styles of practice, selfish/selfless goals, that sort of thing. Because it would be really wonderfully edutainmenty.

*If not approved, and I'm the first not approved, I expect to be notified that I'm the first. It's almost an accomplishment on its own.

15:42 / 18.05.07

Lula, I sent the abstract to CAG to see if it was positioned enough in the 'magic from an experiencial' view point (which I believe everyone involved agreed on) not a overall topic review.

However if people don't trust CAG to make decisions around content review we need to address that now please. Because we may very well get topics which are not viewed as acceptable and currently I'm viewing CAG as authorized to interact with the authors if need be to wrangle those sorts of issues.

Yes please no public posting of abstracts at this point or public discussion as we want people to still send their ideas in freely. After the cut off date we can send a private list around (which is why I need folks' email addresses).

15:54 / 18.05.07

Other than Quantum and XK, who is the CAG at this point? Is Talks to Strangers onboard? Some random infrequent poster of high standing? It's not in the wiki and I couldn't find an accurate list just breezing through this thread, so if it's covered earlier, sorry, missed it.

I trust CAG to handle things, but that's trust through through figuring future editions/issues could fix what might be problematic in the first one, and not putting as much emphasis on the community side in a direct way. I don't really trust people who run my in-the-flesh community, after all, or editorial boards on things I submit to in general.

A bit more communication on this side of things might help regulate the community-concern angle. As well as knowing who's doing what. (I just know I'm the one person who doesn't know who the third plus members are.)

16:48 / 18.05.07

Talks to Strangers is teh fourth, don't forget idperfections. Gypsy Lantern is helping out too.

17:02 / 18.05.07

CAG is: GL, entity, Quantum, MC/TTS, XK/BIHB

Currently entity, Quants, and I are the receivers of all things abstract. All CAG are consulted on problematic abstracts, of which we only had the one mentioned upstream.

Then CAG members shout out for which final articles they want to review (which helps ensure a CAG member doesn't review hir own work). Probably be 2-3 CAG per article if not all. Depends on the number of final submits.

17:13 / 18.05.07

After CAG wrangles the magical experience:

Proof Patrol is:

grant, betty woo, feverfew, Invisible Al, MattSheperd, entity, quants,Sekhmet, Haloquin, DD

Edit Patrol is:

grant, feverfew, MattSheperd, entity, quants

Layout Patrol is:

electric monk, feverfew,MattSheperd, ghadis

These are from PM's I received from volunteers.
These are also all the people *plus content contributers* who will be voting on artwork.
Seems fair if you're not volunteering or contributing, you don't get a vote on...

19:04 / 18.05.07

I maybe looking at this differently than other folks... but to me, the Editors are the ones with the most stick poking skillz in terms of changing wordz etc. (authors do get to review/approve pass)

CAG's job is to make sure the proposed/delivered articles are in line with the board's standards of social presentation (no unchecked -ism's), fall within the Temple forum's stated areas, AND are grounded in experiential presentation. We don't have to feel warm and shiny about everything that gets through just that it's living up to those requirements.

Yes/No?

19:07 / 18.05.07

Yes.

19:14 / 18.05.07

Sounds like a plan, to me. I would hope if any CAG did not feel, or indeed felt the opposite of, warm and fuzzy about someone's proposed article, that they would notify that someone before they crafted their article. This is kind of a community love-child and I'd imagine, at least based on the people I know are submitting (based on this thread), everyone would be willing to at least consider re-tailoring their actual article to keep from depressing or insulting anyone.

Being informative and honest is good and fine, yes, but beyond that I think people would want this to turn out to be something at least the rest of the Temple-visitors could pick back up and read through without having an urge to never touch a certain article, or worse, rip it out/delete from PDF/black over the text with a marker.

19:45 / 18.05.07

This is kind of a community love-child and I'd imagine, at least based on the people I know are submitting (based on this thread), everyone would be willing to at least consider re-tailoring their actual article to keep from depressing or insulting anyone.

Ah wouldn't that fall under my CAG mission statement above? Especially the insulting part? Didja read it?

Being informative and honest is good and fine, yes, but beyond that I think people would want this to turn out to be something at least the rest of the Temple-visitors could pick back up and read through without having an urge to never touch a certain article, or worse, rip it out/delete from PDF/black over the text with a marker.

Well everyone has different tastes and tolerances. I think CAG's focus is less on making sure everything is a stellar informative gem (them's the Authors'/Editors' jobs ) and more about making sure it fits this board's levels of tolerant exchange, the Temple's topics, and is based in practical experience rather than only pure theory.

I'm not approving abstracts/articles based on if they inspire me (though hey, most of them do), rather if the topic is being presented in a way which will be accessible and of value to the community. Accessibility rating is informed by the board's standards on -isms and the community value rating comes from Temple topics presented via personal experience.

20:14 / 18.05.07

'Insulting' may have been too strong. I have almost no doubt anyone's going into this with less than the best intentions and a 'for us and others' mentality.

13:39 / 19.05.07

I'd take the CAG remit slightly further and say it's part of our mandate to keep the book consistent in terms of tone, style etc. Although it's going to be wildly varied on the theme of magic, I hope all the pieces will have a certain hard-to-define something that makes the Temple ace. They have so far.
Really I mean I want to avoid common pitfalls that I've read so many times elsewhere, I don't want to force anyone into a mould but I don't want turgid overwritten unexamined spoutings anywhere near our baby. And as I say, there doesn't seem to be any danger of that, I'd say everything's going swimmingly.
Offtopic, that magic cat picture should *so* have a lolcatz slogan. But what...

13:53 / 19.05.07

I'm interested in the way that CAG is perceived. I can see how traditionally editors sit at the top of a pyramid power structure telling other people what to do, but CAG to me is more like running around the building of a giant steamship tinkering with it and making sure all the propellors spin the right way. Or those flunkies that you see making sure famous artistes are happy, that there's a car to get them from A to B or whatever, where the artistes are the contributors. CAG are the folk who sort out the bowl of M&Ms In My Mind.

(Interesting aside on the M&Ms, the reason Van Halen famously insisted on the brown ones being removed was to ensure the promoters did all the other intricate stuff that actually was essential to the show like wiring stage equipment properly etc. so it was kind of a telltale of thoroughness, see here for more rider stories)

*

16:33 / 21.05.07

For myself, I've been keeping updated on what's been uploaded to the content management system and commenting where appropriate, and things generally are looking really good. Sorry I've been quiet, I've been doing a lot of work elsewhere lately.

Nothing has arisen that had me saying "this shouldn't go in". Instead it's been "WOW this is great stuff, I want more!" Even the article of which XK spoke above, which does feel a little bit different in tone and subject matter from other contributions, made me think we should include it rather than turn it away. And there has been another article which I feel like I should work with the author on an addendum or something to, but I'd rather see the finished piece first as everything I would want to talk about might well be covered... and I haven't heard anything from other CAG members about that idea anyway.

There's always next issue.

17:25 / 21.05.07

Yeah I'm sort of feeling the first one should be very welcoming as we don't have much of a clue as to what's out there yet. the later ones can be more focused if need be.

CAG: I'm putting 3 more abstracts into the repos now.

18:03 / 21.05.07

I'm sort of on the fence about throwing my hat in as the abstract I've been growing is likely to be a hefty chunk of time... I'm worried about babysitting the journal and writing for it as well....

TEN DAYS LEFT TO EMAIL US YOUR ABSTRACT AND BLACK& WHITE ART!!!

18:20 / 21.05.07

BiHB, maybe you could write a forward if you aren't going to do an article? Can't be all over the thing but nowhere we can point a finger to. Well, you can, but it doesn't seem quite right.

I hope some of the CAG are (still) intending to put personal pieces in, amidst all the cat-herding and candy-sorting.

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