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Underground > Creation >

The Barbelith Temple Presents: Vol 1

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17:49 / 18.04.07

This is what I'm thinking, tell me what you're thinking.

So let's not talk about specific recent crappy things we've encountered in the world of magical discourse here as we have plenty of other threads going on those issues. Though with that said, the general mechanics and dynamics we wish to avoid I think we can discuss here.

Let us do talk about how to make a collection of magical/religious/spiritual articles and images under the guidelines we find work well in the Temple.

I'd like us to come up with an agreed upon standard for work acceptable to our publication. It should include the regular board standards of tolerance, respect, critical thinking and thoughtful presentation. We need a standard of writing ability and/or how to direct a submission for review (or not?).

I'd like it to eventually be open to off board writers if their work is acceptable to our agreed on guidelines. Probably just force them to join the board!

Some of the problematic items that come to mind revolve around picking things like cover art or other only one at time bits. For this I propose we use the PM vote system like we do for collective cd mixes. Everyone involved in the project gets a vote that is PM'd to the facilatator of the particular sub topic.

Best case is we rally and produce something that inspires other people. Worse case we rally and produce something that inspires us.

I'm thinking we should keep it not for profit but copyright it. If we use a self publishing house like Lulu I believe we can set it to charge only the amount it costs to produce the thing?

Are their any concerns around using the Barbelith Temple as a part of the name or branding?

MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!

17:53 / 18.04.07

Please feel free to use the FTP thing I've set up as a central file repository. I'll PM XK with the details and she can distribute as necessary. I'm also a dab hand at PageMaker and would be happy to help with layout.

18:13 / 18.04.07

I'm very into this. My concerns are that the cat-herding might get out of hand if we're making it by committee, I'd prefer to have two or three folk as co-ordinators/editors, and ask for input from others. That way we can just make all the easy decisions and make sure people are appy with them, and only need to referendum the tricky or contentious stuff.

How about a triumvirate of editors?

I would prefer it to have it's own brand rather than being a Barbelith Temple Production, but since a lot/most of the contributors will likely be from here we should certainly explain that and credit the board.

18:14 / 18.04.07

I'm not too sure about the Barbelith Temple name/brand thing for much the same reason that some people have concerns about it still being the name of the board. The Morrison connection really. I would vote for a new title/brand myself.

I agree that a copyrighted, not for profit book sold through a print on demand printers would be best. Not sure about Lulu but thats later down the line.

PM voting on covers etc seems mighty fine to me.

18:21 / 18.04.07

Branding it non Temple is cool.
Standard based around the Temple quality control is IMO essential.

I think some things need to be collective decisions by vote and others just inclusive. By inclusive I mean if it meets the guidelines and deadlines it gets in. Content should probably be peer reviewed around an agreed upon standard of grammar and research.

For example I think cover art should be a collective vote, if we are having any.

Re cat herding: Why should it be any harder than a CD mix thread? Some of those have gotten fairly epic and complex.

18:22 / 18.04.07

x-post

A triumvirate of editors sounds like a good idea for the main body of work, articles etc. Still like the pm vote on covers.

18:23 / 18.04.07

I would prefer it to have it's own brand rather than being a Barbelith Temple Production

"Eye of Gek."

Hi, guys.

18:24 / 18.04.07

How about:

Numinosity:

Numinosity is the relationship between other people, places, and things and the individual. This concept seems to be the combination of the words numen and numinous. Numen* is defined as a spiritual force or influence that is often identified with a natural place, phenomenon, or object. Whereas numinous* is described as supernatural and mysterious; filled with a sense of the presence of divinity (holy); appealing to the higher emotions or the aesthetic sense (spiritual). Therefore, after an objects or things have acquired, or been given, an emotional or spiritual force they have obtained numinosity toward the individual or people. (*From Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary/Thesaurus [computer program])

18:27 / 18.04.07

Numinosity: Oh yes I think it's a lovely word.

18:30 / 18.04.07

I like that, Xk. I would like to contribute something. I am just not sure what I could that would be of barbe-quality. I could put on my thinking cap and challenge myself.

18:33 / 18.04.07

Put me down for an art submission as well.

18:34 / 18.04.07

I'd be happy to contribute artwork where it's needed, and will probably take a crack at a cover design or two. I can also help with page layout if necessary (I'm a fool for InDesign at the moment, but will re-install and use PageMaker 6.5 if I hafta).

18:35 / 18.04.07

I'm tentatively willing to help out, even if it's adding some kind of oversight.

Note: I work for a publication that, like everything else in the world of paper, has recently downsized. The writing staff here is now 1/6 of the full staff (not including a couple freelancers). Content is provided by about half the staff (including freelancers).

All the rest of the people here are checking spelling, making sure things look right, and keeping people on target.

18:37 / 18.04.07

Thanks 'Trix!

I guess I should come right and say I'm for an inclusive collection of work that adheres to a highly visible standard submitted within a clearly defined timeframe because it promotes a supportive environment for the usually excluded voices.

So what's the highly visible standard? What's the timeframe? Who decides if a submission does not adhere to the standard?

18:41 / 18.04.07

Oh and how do we feel about off board submissions, yes/no?

18:43 / 18.04.07

Is there a theme, perhaps? Maybe "numinosoity" is the theme?

18:43 / 18.04.07

Standard based around the Temple quality control is IMO essential.

Helluva yeah.

This is cool. We've got half a dozen contributors already, artwork and subbing volunteers, a pretty clear idea of where we're heading, not bad after thirty minutes.

On the voting- I was thinking of votes for the cover, name etc. but for typeface and other minor stuff it's easier to let one or two (or three) make executive decisions and then ratify it with the collective. Also, more importantly, giving somebody the 'CAT HERDER' badge means the project doesn't get bogged down and lose momentum. Somebody needs to pilot the damn thing, is what I'm saying.

18:44 / 18.04.07

off board submissions, yes

18:47 / 18.04.07

wow, xpostastic.

"what's the highly visible standard?"
Err, quality? I reckon it's hard to define, but you know it when you see it.

"What's the timeframe?"
I reckon three months max for submissions.

"Who decides if a submission does not adhere to the standard? "
I reckon something should only NOT be included if other people object or question the quality.

18:49 / 18.04.07

Ok so far we need to throw out more name ideas, timeframes, and figure out the editing process.

I think we have a few folks who can make font/grammar patrol status but we need to dig into content management.

What is our standard for acceptability?

As for themes, I'm not sure we need one. Plenty of good collections I read are about people speaking passionately about what their current interest is. I'd rather the focus be on quality of work in the general field at this point. I mean, shit, maybe something we haven't thought of to include would blow our socks off.

19:00 / 18.04.07

"Tentative" because busier than normal with mortgage, downsized staff, extra jobs, etc.

19:01 / 18.04.07

name ideas can wait I reckon, but I agree we don't need a theme. Magic 'n Stuff is theme enough.

19:02 / 18.04.07

You people with your fast posting.

19:04 / 18.04.07

For quality: the "rough consensus" standard works great over at Wikipedia. No fixed majority or supermajority requirement, just a "vibe" about whether the community is for or against inclusion. A trusted evaluator, like the proposed triumverate, would decide if rough consensus exists. It turns out to work pretty well; rough consensus (or its absence) is surprisingly easy to spot, and it intuitively assimilates factors that one-person-one-vote doesn't (like the relative weight the community gives to different voices - a Mordant Carnival or Gypsy Lantern vs. a Doc Checkmate or, I don't know, Epop). That way, a troll or widely-acknowledged idiot is recognized as the outlier he/she is.

In terms of the actual, articulated standard of quality to bear in mind when giving a "yea" or "nay:" I personally like the simple "Would I want to own this and have it on my shelf?" Or, rephrased, "having read this, am I glad that I bought it?"

19:09 / 18.04.07

xpostastic indeed!

"what's the highly visible standard?"
Err, quality? I reckon it's hard to define, but you know it when you see it.

I think we need to at least have the guidelines be defined in terms of:

It should include the regular board standards of tolerance, respect, critical thinking and thoughtful presentation.

"What's the timeframe?"
I reckon three months max for submissions.

Seems kind of long to me to throw your hat in the ring...or do you mean to get the actual thing in?
How about a shorter announcement to participate with a longer deadline for product?

"Who decides if a submission does not adhere to the standard? "
I reckon something should only NOT be included if other people object or question the quality.

K'. So how about a rotating volunteer staff on call for it? I think you mentioned three bodies? I think we might have differerent bodies for content and form to help share the load. So first review would be to spot content issues then passed up to the grammar patrol layout folks?

what is your* thinking on the workflow?

*everybody

19:10 / 18.04.07

Is it okay to nominate Xk, as overall co-ordinator?

19:15 / 18.04.07

I personally like the simple "Would I want to own this and have it on my shelf?" Or, rephrased, "having read this, am I glad that I bought it?"

I dunno that seems wicked subjective. I'd rather it be based around quality of presentation.

I'm also thinking we need to make it accessible for many levels of ability to contribute. Someone with a valuable perspective might have a disability we need to remain flexible around. I'd like us to avoid ableist structures if we can.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

19:16 / 18.04.07

Quality: Tolerance, respect, critical thinking, thoughtful presentation, and writing from your OWN COCKING EXPERIENCE RATHER THAN PULLING SHIT OUT OF YOUR EAR.

Just saying.

19:19 / 18.04.07

heh.

I think that would fall under critical thinking?

so I could write an article about something that's purely academic but well researched?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

19:25 / 18.04.07

Oh sure. Just want to spare future editors all the "so this is what I think would happen if you did a working with Pikachu as a lightning God, by Insert Terry Pratchett Character Name Here" articles.

19:27 / 18.04.07

So the difference being:

the "so this is what I think would happen if you did a working with Pikachu as a lightning God, by Insert Terry Pratchett Character Name Here" articles.

vs.

"so I did a working with Pikachu as a lightning God, by Insert Terry Pratchett Character Name Here" articles.

?

19:34 / 18.04.07

name ideas can wait I reckon, but I agree we don't need a theme. Magic 'n Stuff is theme enough.

If we are going to vote on a name we best start chucking them out as they come to us. I'd hate to have this puppy ready to go but held up by a raging debate about branding.

19:41 / 18.04.07

I haven't been a regular poster here in ages, but this is something I'd be keen on participating in, both on a volunteer basis with editing/marketing, and possibly as a contributor, provided I can come up with an article that seems to fit.

Do we want print-only or is there interest in a PDF format as well? I prefer my books to have some real-world weight, but the PDF would likely extend the audience reach.

Three months as a contribution deadline seems reasonable, and I'm fond of Numinosity rather than anything too Barbe-specific.

19:43 / 18.04.07

Oh, and thanks very much XK for kicking this idea into gear.

19:49 / 18.04.07

Hi betty woo! (and a belated howdy to Doc)

I think a PDF sounds lovely.

Anyone have IRL experience with copyrights ect. for this project to call on?

What about a shorter deadline for throwing your hat in the ring and submitting an idea so we can get a guesstimate?

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