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Underground > Creation >

The Barbelith Temple Presents: Vol 1

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Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

18:43 / 21.04.07

I've been off an on for the past week and so (luckily) missed the self-destruction of Ultraculture, and have many threads to catch up on in regards to other things, but I just wanted to hop on here and pitch my hat into the ring. I'd love to contribute and assist in any way possible.

Cheers!

23:45 / 21.04.07

Wow, that's detailed. I've been saying to people Will you submit to our journal thingummy? We want articles based on experience, shorter the better, written for the intelligent layperson. Sooner the better, 3 month deadline

Less searchable M0rd4nt

00:22 / 22.04.07

So the difference being:

the "so this is what I think would happen if you did a working with Pikachu as a lightning God, by Insert Terry Pratchett Character Name Here" articles.

vs.

"so I did a working with Pikachu as a lightning God, by Insert Terry Pratchett Character Name Here" articles.

?

Yes.

The Ghost of Tom Winter

06:21 / 22.04.07

Copyrights and legal jargon confuse me.

Here are some videos that answered a lot of questions for me.

Creative Commons

12:57 / 22.04.07

TsS: some of the CAG wants to draft you as the last member.

Quants and I have been discussing the need for another female-id member and you've got experience with these thingies. You up for it? (will PM same)

Less searchable M0rd4nt

15:00 / 22.04.07

Have PMed you about this.

19:59 / 22.04.07

I'm interested in contributing, so long as I can come up with a quality idea. I'm also up for assisting -- I'm not half bad at proofreading.

21:07 / 22.04.07

My proposal. I'm not sure how appropriate it is, being mostly opinion and not very magicky, but it's what I'm inspired by about the Temple forum here. I'll only be mildly offended if it's not thought suitable and I promise not to make that anyone else' problem. Let me know if you want me to write the extended version.

'What spiritual practitioners might want to learn from science'

What does science have that we can benefit from right now as magical practitioners, at this time of planetary crisis? It's my opinion that the communication skills underlying science in practice are underappreciated and urgently needed amongst spiritual activists of all kinds.

Consider science as a set of methods for recovering and abstracting a robust shared reality by collaborative effort. We are humans, living on a small and crowded planet in danger of ecological collapse. Our species has the capacity to learn how to garden this planet and manage it intelligently.

We're sharing a small planet and we need to learn to live together. The skills for communicating about and verifying what we discover about the world are the heart of science practice. Those skills are at the sharp end of democracy, in the sense of making decisions together about the important stuff, and the basis of education through critical thinking.

If we can't listen to each other, we can't learn from each other, and this crisis needs more wisdom than any one of us can draw out individually. We need to be able to communicate our findings and beliefs to each other and we need the humility to submit our findings to others' questions, and the skills to work through conflicts constructively.

As people with perhaps more diverse approaches to reality, we need these skills very much. If we see ourselves as part of the solution to this crisis, if we are to work together to build a beautiful and just future on this small planet, we need to find ways to collaborate in finding what is shared about the reality we experience, and science has pioneered some of those skills.

22:40 / 22.04.07

I'm up for proofreading duty, can you add us to the list of volunteers? Thanks

.

22:56 / 22.04.07

Good gods, this thread is moving fast!

I have proofreading/editing experience and a degree in English comp, if any more volunteers for such services are needed. Also interested in submitting artwork.

And I promise not to mail anything to N.E. Coyote.

23:26 / 22.04.07

I'd be willing to help out where I can, are there any more spots open for artwork?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

23:39 / 22.04.07

S'Nod: I for one would love to read that article.

(Also: Yay! Doc Checkmate! Sekhmet! Liger! betty woo! invisible_al! Yayyy! We should do this more often, obvs.)

*

23:51 / 22.04.07

Saturn's Nod— I'm interested in reading that. Specifically, from reading that abstract, I'd like to know what kind of communication science does particularly well, and how it does well at it, and how practitioners of non-scientific disciplines can incorporate those skills into their own disciplines. If that's what you're setting out to answer, then I'm pretty excited about it.

00:06 / 23.04.07

I agree, what a splendid idea for an article! It always bothers me when I hear magical types spouting off how science is TEH TOOL OV TEH DEVILLLL!!!11!!! I haven't noticed too much of that around here, thank goodness.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

01:42 / 23.04.07

Yah. This is one of the things that's always made the Temple a bit special for me.

06:34 / 23.04.07

If anyone wants, I could probably chip in an article based on my experiences working with Chango and Yemaya - I'll work up an abstract and post it later.

07:14 / 23.04.07

Saturn's, really, I want to see that article. That's the sort of thing I love about Barbelith, in general, is that there isn't a compartmentalizing or exclusionary nature, with a healthy dose of 'does it add up' thrown in.

So, too, the best journal I think we could end up with would be one covering ground or considering options that the bulk of the works won't touch.

I'm far less interested in magick as an excuse to be an ass, to promote fear, or hum in unison and remember how much better we are than those folks over to the left, there, than I am the magick of pigeon's cooing two seconds before the sun's up, turning a slip of paper into Guinness and cheeseburgers, or hitting flash swordsmen in the head with an oar and then going home.

I know I'm on the absurd and easily satisfied end of it, really, but there are enough people in the Mag forum giving some long, thorough thinking to concerns that elsewhere or by other folks might be simply writ off on 'faith' or denounced via exclusionary tactics like Science doth be yon devil's shoppe! or None of that oppressed darkskinned nonsense, I'm an ipsissisimessinmisel! So mote it be. business. Their the ones I'm most looking forward to.

07:22 / 23.04.07

That sounds really good SN. I'm definatly up for reading more. Also your writing on Chango and Yemaya VV.

This is moving real fast and i'm sure we'll get some fantastic stuff. I'm still up for layout/design duty but i should mention that i'll be away in Thailand for most of the summer. So if i'm not about for July and August its because i'm off battling giant spiders. Hopefully that shouldn't be a problem as a 3 month call and collate for articles should leave the layout people starting stuff early sept?

12:25 / 23.04.07

Ok so the giant snowball is starting to inch closer to the edge.

I'm in the process of setting up an offboard workflow site for the mechanics of the journal. Not for people submitting work but rather for CAG, Proof, Edit and Layout folks to track their work.

What this means is (if people want to use it) we can have a private knowledge system. For people who have worked in call centers it is like ticket issue application.

Pros:
1. A secure central repository of all submitted pieces of work and easy to track assignments that can be pushed to other people involved. The users can elect to be notified by email or just check in.

2. All data backed up nightly and is based on freeware therefore portable.

3. Accessible by the major web browsers no software is required to install and each user has unique login and password.

4. Completely searchable and has a calendar function.

5. Free for us via me.

Cons:

1. It does require at least an hour to learn how to use if you've never used one before.

2. Only valuable if all of the project members wrangling CAG, Proof, Edit, and Layout use it to track changes.

So in my mind it would be useful because people could work on their own schedules without having to really wait around for email to show up with the next piece of the puzzle. All the pieces would be in it tagged with what work has been done and what work needs to be done.

An example might be a CAG member uploads a submitted article and opens what is called an issue for it. They assign all they other CAG members to the issue. The article is read and each CAG member makes a brief note of their review which anyone in the project can read. Then when it is ready to be sent to copy edit it is assigned to those folks who go through their group process and then pass it to layout and final edit.

Is this an approach people want to try for organization or should we stick to email?

Oh and for those who are/want to be involved with CAG, Proof, Edit, and Layout please PM me your preferred area of interest to volunteer and an email address for this project.
Even if we don't use a tracking system we should start setting up email lists.

Cool?

SN: I love you article!

The Ghost of Tom Winter

13:09 / 23.04.07

This is exciting.

SN I love that stuff.

I'll try to punch out an abstract once all my papers are done and I'm moved back home.

14:38 / 23.04.07

Oh and to offer a variety of options for *how* to do this here is the non schmancy way:

1. off board abstracts are sent to the CAG email and on board are posted here. We collectively get to agree wrangle them at that point probably in thread or new shiny one.

2. Articles and art are submitted to the CAG email address. Articles are reviewed and art is linked to probably a new thread unless we wish to keep them private in which case a PM/email can be sent around with a link to the art on a web page. (I can host it for a week)

3. All CAG approved articles are sent to the Proof Patrol team via email. Them folks might have better ideas how to divide the work up. Group approved art would be sent to the Layout team.

4. Proof Patrol then gets everything to Layout via email.

5. Layout gets everything to Final Edit via email. They work it out.

6. Final Edit presents a copy for review which should include authors, yes? I can host a PDF download or I think Matt can use his FTP site though FTP isn't wonderfully secure.

7. Publication.

Is this more comfortable for folks?

14:50 / 23.04.07

..and how's about a May 1st kick off date?

15:19 / 23.04.07

I'd love to write something for this. No idea what, but I'm sure ideas will start to flow once exams are over and the summer stretches languorously before me.

Another option: I might submit my old post on my "Gamemaster Theory" meta-mojo, with minor edits. It's still my favorite and most frequently used bit of personal results magic. Would that work as a short piece? Could I submit that and also write something new, or are multiple articles a no-no?

*

16:21 / 23.04.07

XK, i.e. Basecamp or similar? I'm into that... email is pretty unwieldy for projects like this.

16:54 / 23.04.07

I've found the easiest way to communicate between editorial is to put a header on the e-mail. Nice little [blagblag blahblah heyhey we're the monkeys] in the subject-line area, before the specific subject. This way, all your e-mails involved can be sorted chronologically, and bypass everything else you've got.

That's if e-mail is the option to be used. With the above system, I haven't seem anyone have terrible problems, whereas, without, I've seen anthos go completely to shit in a very short time.

18:01 / 23.04.07

I'm getting great response from people off board as well.

I'd like to propose these dates:

May 1st 2007 -> May 31st 2007
Submit Article Abstract and Announce Intention for submitting Visual B&W Art.

June 1st 2007 -> August 31st 2007
Submit completed Article and Artwork for review

I suspect some people will submit finished work earlier than others and if we can process them as they flow in we'll be ahead of the game. Depending on the number received we should be able to determine roughly how much time this will take?

I'd even suggest the Layout Team could start deciding the format we should work with?

CAG, PROOF PATROL, EDIT, and LAYOUT volunteers I need your contact info (email) and what you want to contribute to.

18:19 / 23.04.07

To clarify, are we still planning to publish thru Lulu/etc. or will this be PDF only?

18:22 / 23.04.07

I believe the kids want both and even more electronic formats?

18:40 / 23.04.07

Those kids! They want the world and they want it now!

Nah, that'll be fine. I can generate and collate PDFs, and can look into creating the other file types at a later date. Probably best for work coming from the Layout team to be in PDF format, of course.

-----

I know it's a little early for this, but... I've started planning out an article template. Will drop it on y'all for approval soon-ish.

19:20 / 23.04.07

I'm fine with both those deadlines. Can I make a suggestion?
Can we please have experientially based writing? Do not submit anything that you've not tried, and preferably discuss the results. I was reading through Generation Hex last night and all the pieces that work have an experiential feel to them. I read through the piece Doc Checkmate mentions above and I feel the same thing. It needs accounts, anecdotes, stories.

19:26 / 23.04.07

I'd say that's a bit hazardous, putting the focus on the experiential/first-hand stuff. Stops simple, but vital articles, such as science-and-magick (or in magick), or ruminations on 'why do people do X'. The critical articles, I suppose, versus the memoir-esque. I'd argue that both are necessary and beneficial.

19:28 / 23.04.07

Can we please have experientially based writing?

I thinks that's what TTS was after with the pokemon example and I agree with both of ya that it is an essential.

Saturn's Nod, can you rock that into your lovely article?

19:33 / 23.04.07

ah x-post.

I do think good scientific articles draw on verifiable data and we should at least try to ground our magical ones...

19:38 / 23.04.07

Once again, clarity through an XK post.

Verifiable, yes. I guess I was taking experiential in a much more limited (verifiable through personal experience) sense.

19:50 / 23.04.07

Yeah, I hope to frame what I'm gesturing at with examples at least. If I understand your point Apophenia it has to do with grounding, and perhaps that need can be answered as people are suggesting with examples from literature as well as from experience.

I've also taken good note of many ravishing idperfections' suggestion: ...what kind of communication science does particularly well, and how it does well at it, and how practitioners of non-scientific disciplines can incorporate those skills into their own disciplines. I might be able to find some examples of scientists doing these skills spectacularly badly as well, because sometimes it's our incompetence that is most illuminating.

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