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Doctor Who: Season 2 UK

 
  

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Mourne Kransky
22:58 / 13.05.06
Actually, maybe it grated because he didn't sound like Trigger.

He used to be Roy Rodgers' horse? That's a hell of a career arc.

You're right about the use of Wimoweh though, Triplets. Inspired. The De! Lete! catchphrase does lend an impression that the Cybermen are just Daleks with legs. And are they all men?
 
 
sleazenation
23:01 / 13.05.06
Well, for me the coolest thing in the episode was when the Tardis crashed and seemingly died, gasmasks dropped from the ceiling ala the oxygen masks on planes...
 
 
■
23:03 / 13.05.06
And are they all men?

No, silly, they are Devo.
 
 
Billuccho!
03:07 / 14.05.06
Well, for me the coolest thing in the episode was when the Tradis crashed and seemingly died, gasmasks dropped from the ceiling ala the oxygen masks on planes...

Is that what those were? Hmm. Looked like random bits to me. Anyway.

I'm a complete Who novice, so bear with me. Couldn't the good Doctor just point his sonic screwdriver at 'em and have their heads go blooey? I mean, they're all just machines, made of parts, aren't they?

It was an okay episode. I'm not a big fan of the two-parters. Slow burn building up to an intense cliffhanger. I've got a baaad feeling that Mickey might bite it in the next episode.
 
 
Ganesh
03:42 / 14.05.06
They were definitely gasmasks - possibly Israeli-issue ones.

(A Fetishist Speaks...)
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:36 / 14.05.06
Yes, the omens aren't good, we find out about Mickey's past, he and the Doctor are treating one another like almost equals. That bit when the Doctor has both Rose and Mickey running out on him and Mickey says "Go on, you're never going to chase after me are you?" Are we replacing Mickey with Rickey?

Is anyone watching Doctor Who Confidential? I must admit my favourite Cybermen were the early ones, where they are just men wearing costumes, as they are supposed to be bionic men it worked quite well, especially as they opened their mouths and the words just tumbled out.

So presumably Trigger is creating these Cybermen and planning to eventually put his mind in one of these bodies?
 
 
Ganesh
08:08 / 14.05.06
My guess is that Ricky gets killed, and Mickey elects to stay and be Britain's Most Wanted in his place.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
08:19 / 14.05.06
One thing I like about Mickey/Ricky is that between this and the christmas special it seems that whatever world he's in he's one of the few humans in the Who univers who will actually stand up and fight the monsters without needing the Doctor to hold his hand while he's doing it - and maybe that's a part of why he isn't quite working out with the Doctor - he doesn't really need the Doctor, at least not as much as most of the other characters and the Doctor knows that.

With that being the case Mickey is rapidly distinguising himself as one of my favourite companions, but I can definitely see how it would make a lot of sense for him to remain on Earth Cyber and be one of the leaders of the resistance. It's just a shame he didn't get a bit more development before we reached this point.
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:30 / 14.05.06
So presumably Trigger is creating these Cybermen and planning to eventually put his mind in one of these bodies?

Picture on the Cybus website has the front Cyberman with it's brain visible through it's skull. Trigger = Cyberleader then.

Also, a mention on the recent news section that the respirator units are vulnerable to toxic substances created by contact with "colloidal or nanoscopic gold".

Sounds like the Cyber-technology was developed from original Mondasian Cybermen the company Cybus got it from was involved in a previous (Troughton era?) invasion attempt.
 
 
A fall of geckos
09:00 / 14.05.06
Apparently the Cybus website with all the cool cyberman stuff is a fan-site, so I wouldn't take anything on there as necessarily true. The bbc version can be found here.

Totally agree about Micky taking the place of Ricky, but we might see more if him if the final episodes feature cybermen - which would make sense to me.
 
 
sleazenation
10:02 / 14.05.06
Another cool thing from the episode was a shot of one of the airships from below echoing the shot of an airship from Blade Runner...

"a new life awaits you on the offworld colonies..."
 
 
illmatic
10:43 / 14.05.06
Really enjoyed that Just watched the vid from last night(after moaning at everyone for watching it in the pub).

One of the most interesting things for me is the thing about Rose's mum. We imagine that Rose has always yearned for her Dad back, but here we see that his presence hasn't contributed to a happy ending for her family - in fact, and this is infering a bit, could we say that his presence, and his success, has led to Rose's mum becoming the status-obsessed battle axe that she is? Be careful what you wish for, etc. Quite a nice twist, I thought.

I like the idea of Davros with Trotters Trading written on the back of his chair. (Oh, and the Zepplins reminded me of the bit in the early Invisbles when Dane and Tom O'Bedlam cross over into a parallel universe).
 
 
Poke it with a stick
10:44 / 14.05.06
The Cybus website is pretty well linked to the Beeb's one, mind - and in the restricted access area, there are even more links. (The password, for those of you don't know, is Delete).
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:44 / 14.05.06
One of the most interesting things for me is the thing about Rose's mum. We imagine that Rose has always yearned for her Dad back, but here we see that his presence hasn't contributed to a happy ending for her family - in fact, and this is infering a bit, could we say that his presence, and his success, has led to Rose's mum becoming the status-obsessed battle axe that she is? Be careful what you wish for, etc. Quite a nice twist, I thought.


Hmmm - I can certainly see that in terms of Parallel Pete and Two Jacks splitting up - there's this vague alchemy in my head, possibly because I've spent too much time reading the frankly mystical recaps on Television Without Pity - that you need to have Jackie, Pete and Rose for it to work.

On t'other hand, I actually found it quite refreshing for Rose's homespun wisdom to find a hostile audience - she's dropped into this life with her own agenda, and she is telling somebody she doesn't know what's best for her. It's not unreasonable for Jackie to bitch her out.

But yes. Assuming that this is Spare Parts 2.0 (and oh, God, "human point 2" JESUS), Lumic is using the Big Issue Cybermen as prototypes to see what the damage from the adjustment process is before he converts himself, which is about to happen. Why he has also decided to use them as a private army right about then? Ah, yes, he's a mad scientist. I think this time around there possibly just was too much going on - Rose/Jackie/Pete, the Britishg Sitcom Actors guild of evil, the Cybermen themselves. My ideal episode 1 script would probably have ended with Micky meeting Ricky, and unfolded over three parts, but c'est la vie, and two hours might have been a bit flabby. We just don't really get much of a sense of Lumic being anything other than a barking loon, which I'd like. And more Micky! He can't act for toffee, but if he is going to maroon himself on parallel London, I'd like to build to an emotional payoff. His character arc is something I've enjoyed - he knows he isn't ready for his first invitation to the Tardis, so he becomes a monitor and explorer on Earth in his own right. It's the first time I think we've had "companion training".

Hmmm. I'm still waiting for the Cybermen to be scary as well, although the factory scene was very nice. One thing a bit more time might have allowed for would be a bit more exposition of the Preachers, and also how people who have survived on the streets get suckered by Denis Waterman's chauffeur, flanked by men in scary white boiler suits, offering them pies.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:47 / 14.05.06
Oh, and can anyone fill out the intranet password for the official Cybus site and the path through the Ricky chat game on the BBC site?
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
11:50 / 14.05.06
I like the difference between Ricky and Mickey best.

Mickey *whimper*
Ricky *scowl*
 
 
Tom Coates
13:56 / 14.05.06
Regarding Human Point Two - I'm afraid I rather wrote a weblog post about that stuff here: Cybermen are Human 2.0 which will only make sense to those of you who can overlap British Whovians, Regularly Conference going and Web 2.0 hysteria. Hence probably none of you. Still there you go...

Back to something said ages back about the Tardis being a bit random - I'd just like to agree with the person who said that the Confidential series said that the Tardis was supposed to be flown by several time lords working together and that this explains both why the Doctor runs around pushing things like a lunatic and why they never really end up where they're supposed to be. I love this as an idea and I can't understand why they don't mention it on the series ever. It would make an enormous amount of sense to me if mentioned and would also open up opportunities for explaining why sometimes it's more accurate than other times - among them that the Doctor is keeping so many things running in his head at all times that it's no wonder he seems a bit scatty on occasion. Having said that, I also like the idea that he's a bit like Phoenix in the Morrison X-men - I keep expecting him to say something like, "Am I here to mend something that was broken?" I have this sense of a Time Lord approved timeline, with as little interference as possible, with each of the Time Lords representing an aspect of the cosmos, be it control, order, lawfulness etc with the doctor being a healing principle of some kind.

As to this episode... Well, I'm afraid I didn't like it very much. I'll agree with people that the Cybermen looked really nice and that there were some lovely bits in it. But as someone above has said, really they're just the same as the Daleks and there's very little need for that - humans who have made themselves less than human and now want to make everything either like them or destroy it. They have tinny electric voices and they move in remorseless but not agile ways. I mean they're armies of Terminators. That's about it. I think they could have done all manner of things with them to make them more interesting - but in the end they're just like they always were only without the megalomania. And the lame Windows/mobile phone/cod computer references - upgrade, delete etc... Not buying it...

Quite liked the RSS feeds in phones / heads though. My assumption - some form of XML with XSLT transforms or stylesheets that make it work on a phone or in someone's brain. NCML - NeoCortical Markup Language? Sort of awesome.

Part of me wondered if they were going to do something really interesting with Mickey by killing him off and replacing him on the crew with Ricky, but they'd never be that good, I fear. More interesting still, is that they're on a parallel earth. There's therefore absolutely no need for the Doctor to win. I'm really interested in seeing if they let him lose this one and have the whole parallel earth fall to the Cybermen. I'd particularly like that in that you could cheerfully push the whole thing onwards and have them completely dominate an entire parallel universe over time - one that could then be forcing incursions into our universe every so often over the coming centuries. That would be a nice way of having Cybermen in continuity while making them way more of a threat.

Anyway, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt - last week's episode was pretty good and I thought the werewolf one totally rocked, so it's not like hte series hasn't got its good points. Just occasionally it seems like they could have got all the ideas they're using and pushed them a hundred times further and it would be more exciting / weird and interesting.

Now I want someone (me, maybe?) to start a thread here or in the Laboratory about why almost all Science Fiction is basically the future as seen from the 40/50/60s
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:45 / 14.05.06
I'm really interested in seeing if they let him lose this one and have the whole parallel earth fall to the Cybermen. I'd particularly like that in that you could cheerfully push the whole thing onwards and have them completely dominate an entire parallel universe over time - one that could then be forcing incursions into our universe every so often over the coming centuries. That would be a nice way of having Cybermen in continuity while making them way more of a threat.

That would be fantastic. I doubt they're brave enough to have a "Doctor Loses" ending, but if they prove me wrong it would indeed be fucking great.
 
 
Triplets
16:16 / 14.05.06
I'm wondering if a Parallel Doctor is going to swoop in at the last and save them from DE-LE-TION*. Imagine. They could go wild: woman Doctor, black Doctor, asian Doctor!

Fanwank: Chris Eccleston Doctor!

* or provide vital ASS-ISS-TANCE.

Does anyone think they're simply restarting the Cybermen/Dalek concept from a humanistic view (fitting with the humanocentrism of this season and last?). Trigger/Davros, Cybermen/Early Daleks...
 
 
■
16:52 / 14.05.06
have the whole parallel earth fall to the Cybermen

That would be nice. It's kind of where I saw it going, anyway. It would be interesting to see David Doctor trying to justify failure because there are an infinite number of universes where it's already happened, so going against all his usual desperate attempts to save everyone.
I've just rememberd how annoyed I was that he found the energy cell so quickly. Twice in as many weeks he's been trapped with no posible way out only to be saved within five minutes. It's a deus too far, really.
 
 
Lama glama
17:07 / 14.05.06
I'd just like to agree with the person who said that the Confidential series said that the Tardis was supposed to be flown by several time lords working together and that this explains both why the Doctor runs around pushing things like a lunatic and why they never really end up where they're supposed to be

That was Chris Ecclestone, wasn't it? I thought that was a pretty cool idea too, but I think it was just the actor trying to fill an interview.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:28 / 14.05.06
Thing is, I'm guessing a lot of stuff that's now canon came about because of stuff like that, or writers trying to hit a deadline and unpaint themselves from a corner...

The sheer messiness of the whole thing is probably what makes me love Who so much. When it first started, nobody had written a whole universe, or a book of rules- it's constantly being created and expanded, and how people (writers, actors etc) deal with this "on the fly" while trying to simultaneously advance it- I love it. It's the exception that proves my rule about stories being better if at least SOMEONE knew where they were going when they started. It's all over the fucking place, and that's why I love it.
 
 
sleazenation
19:10 / 14.05.06
Yeah, i'm not sure that the Daleks and Cybermen are all that different in terms of concept - both races started out as (sort of) humans were trapped in bodies that were dying in some way - the Daleks was mutating as a consequence of a nasty protracted nuclear and chemical war the cybermen were just replacing their flesh with metal as their flesh wore out... both lost their humanity as a consequence (despite neither of them actually being properly human anyway)...

I guess the next monster due for a timely revival is the Sontarans - a race of clones, bred for war...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:41 / 14.05.06
My only real problem with this episode is the basic Dalekisation of the Cybermen's origin. As was the Cybermen were something that people did to themselves, it was the opposite of the body horror of most alien stories, the Cybermen were the horror of something which is not your flesh acting as though it is. There are nods to that in this episode (as when people are downloading news in to their head, it would suck to be a brain surgeon or flying a plane at that moment in time) but it's diluted so that now you don't turn yourself into a Cyberman in an attempt not to die, now being turned into a Cyberman is what the mad scientist does to you. It's an absolving of blame and takes away much of their power. What would have been better would have been if Lumic turned himself into the first Cyberman a minute or two in and goes around turning everyone else into Cybermen as well. Yes, it's The Borg but who needs to be 100% original all the time?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:28 / 14.05.06
But... didn't you just complain that this new Cyberman origin lacks the originality of the original one?

I'm with Haus and Tom on this episode. Didn't think much of it - a protracted lead-in to the second episode, where there will be some actual events taking place on the screen to stop me from feeling

A) talked down to
B) bored.

It felt like old Who in some ways, none of them good. An overlong intro ep with very little meaningful Doctor/companion action, the time being spent with the surface plot rather than the characters. And that's plot as in bare-bones scripted stuff - there were no underlying messages here, no point in trying to dig any deeper into it to grab something that'd make it feel like a worthwhile forty-five minutes of my life. Very pantomime.

Not keen on the reappearance of Rose's dad so soon. Makes his sacrifce last series feel less important, for Rose's character arc if not for anything else. He died. Never mind, though, because he's still alive in an infite number of other dimensions. We knew that anyway, I suppose, but it feels cheaper by being made into a plot point.

Felt like a sketch for an episode, like a dry run of ideas that hadn't had enough time put into their development. And yeah, I agree that teh new Cybermen are rubbish. Not to look at, but in terms of providing any honest-to-ggodness threat. There's still hope for them - I'd like for the next episode to have their brains start remembering who they were, what's been done to them, and then start going ape-shit crazy. There's the opportunity there to make them more than just Daleks with legs and to turn them back into the megalomaniacal loonies they were previously. "Why don't they have any emotions?" "Because they hurt". Oh, please - we don't that again, and certainly not squeezed into an existing bunch of bad guys.
 
 
Poke it with a stick
22:03 / 14.05.06
Haus, look up to my previous post.
As for Mickey's game, just type a few keywords in and the chatbot will respond if you hit one of the ones it recognises. Alternately, after a while, it'll get bored of your random chatter and be a little more direct and give you a helpful push - there are about three or four levels to it, all pretty straightforward.
Unfortunately, realplayer isn't working on my comp, so I've no idea what's said on completion of the game.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
23:05 / 14.05.06
I thought that was GREAT!!!!!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:11 / 15.05.06
Mickey's TD - that's the password to the fan site -I was asking about the "official" BBC Cybus industries site intranet, which I can't get into with "Delete".

I'd like to watch this again - I'm getting incrementally more scared of the Cybermen - and I think there was a lot of good stuff - yay development for Mickey! - but I do wish that the pace of ther new doc could be combined with the length of the old Doc sometimes - 3 45-minute episodes is not that far from 6 25-minute episodes, and might have given us a more convincing bit of abduction (wouldn't have taken much, actually - if they'd taken the henches out of lab gear and painted a charity slogan on the van, even), and also done a bit more with Lumic. He was a bit cardboard for my liking, when there could have been more idealism and more sadness to him: again, I'm thinking of Spare Parts, where the Cybermen came about out of necessity and a kind of altruism - if Lumic has the power to take over people's mind just using his earpods, it seems a bit bwa-ha-ha to have them cyberised as well when his aim is to preserve his own life.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:46 / 15.05.06
Really? I actually liked how "bwahaha I am TOTALLY tonto!" he was, because I've come to accept that a lot of the time, this show deals in pretty broad strokes, so I enjoy the ones that are entertaining (cackling bad guy) rather than irritating (cackling Doctor and Rose).
 
 
Cat Chant
10:37 / 15.05.06
I am not talking about the Cybermen, because of deferred Earthshock grief.

Instead I am posting a link to this scan of an extract from an official Doctor Who comic, which makes me happy. (The blonde woman in it is supposed to be Rose, the dark-haired one is just some woman or other.)
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
10:40 / 15.05.06
Wow, that's supposed to be Rose? Ha. I've often meant to look at the comic because I was interested in the art. Do you know, is it the same artist all the time, Deva?
 
 
sleazenation
11:26 / 15.05.06
There are currently two, soon to be three, ongoing dr who comic strips. One in Doctor Who Magazine, one in the newly launched Doctor Who Adventures and one in the upcoming doctor who partwork.

Doctor Who Magazine has the more auspicious history and has featured the work of comics creators ranging from Pat Mills, Alan Moore and Grant Morrison, Simon Furman Steve Dillon, David Gibbons, John Ridgway, Richard Peirs Rayner. More recently, Mike Collins has become the mainstay artist on the book with scripts coming from a range of writers including one of the writers for the TV series. It was launched in 1979 as Doctor Who Weekly and has grown up with its readership.

Doctor Who Adventures is basically aimed at the same market the original Doctor Who Weekly was:children.

The latest Comics International actually has some interesting articles on the long and varied history of Doctor Who comics... coincidentally (or perhaps not) Comics International is published by Dez Skinn the editor who launched Doctor Who Weekly...
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:34 / 15.05.06
I've got to say that I'm really not liking Rose this year. She seems really selfish and a little callous about things, as well as constantly jealous of the Doctor giving anyone else even the slightest attention (Doctor gets some info from a waitress, Rose calls her stupid).
 
 
sleazenation
12:02 / 15.05.06
I think that is part of the point of this season, I fully expect that Rose is going to have to do some growing up soon as she realises the impact her decisions have had on other people - I am expecting her to radically re-evaluate her relationship with Mickey in a manner that may not be of her choosing...
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
12:07 / 15.05.06
Ooh, thanks for the info sleaze. Do you know who the artist is in that linked page? Because they seem to think Rose is actually Buffy.
 
  

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