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Doctor Who: Season 2 UK

 
  

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Kali, Queen of Kitteh
15:24 / 21.05.06
Just found and finished "Rise of the Cybermen."

Comments:

Is it me, or is the actor playing John Lumic the same actor that played David Tennant's father in "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire"? If so, very funny.

Interesting to see that no matter how many parallel universes, Jackie Tyler will always be Jackie Tyler.

This episode, Rose exasperates me because of her continual weakness: her family. Well, really, her dad. Pete Tyler's reappearance in this universe sort of deadens the poignance of "Father's Day." Rose has got to learn to stop chasing Daddy. You can't heal if you continually cling to this notion of "what if."

I'm starting to feel sorry for Mickey. I find it interesting that he has stayed with the Doctor and Rose for this long, considering he doesn't really fit into the Doctor's world. Very interesting to see his parallel self has purpose and a toughness.

All in all, a bit of a patchy episode for me. And from what I can tell from recent comments, "Age of Steel" isn't much better, but I'll have to wait a few days before I can see it.
 
 
sleazenation
15:39 / 21.05.06
Ok, looking for a bright side, They differentiate between Lumic's cybermen and the ones from our universe - will we get to see both sets of cybermen later in the season?
 
 
Billuccho!
17:17 / 21.05.06
Well, I highly enjoyed Age of Steel, after a mildly mediocre Rise of the Cybermen. Perhaps it's because I'm a Who novice, I'm American, and I've been enjoying Mickey's presence throughout season two. I dunno. But I had good fun. I liked the Doctor's speech, I liked Mickey saving the day, and I liked the hideous emotion of the Cybermen. Oh, and zeppelins are awesome.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
18:00 / 21.05.06
I'm a bit confused why the zeppelins irk you so much, Randy. Why zeppelins? Well, why cat people? Why clockwork robot baddies? Why a blue police box*? Why anything? Because stuff like this looks cool, and makes people excited. Perhaps not Barbelith people - but I'm far from convinced that Barbelith is Dr Who's target (or ideal) audience.

*Yes, I know there's an explanation for this in Dr Who lore - but it's hardly ever mentioned in the show.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
18:19 / 21.05.06
Y'see, I like Mickey more and more as the episodes go on. It's Rose I'm starting to find a bit annoying.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:36 / 21.05.06
I'm a bit confused why the zeppelins irk you so much, Randy. Why zeppelins? Well, why cat people? Why clockwork robot baddies? Why a blue police box*? Why anything?

The cat people were aliens, though. They need to be aliens - there's a good reason for them, plot-wise. There's not a good reason for them to be cat people as opposed to, say, snot people, but they need to be aliens of some form.

The clockwork robots are completely fitting for the period of the episode that they're in, as well as working within the framework of the story - their ship's named after Madame Pumparump, there's an old oil painting of her hanging up in it, it's reasonable to presume that this is how that culture's technology functions. Most importantly, it's consistent with that episode's internal logic - I totally buy into the idea of beautiful clockwork robots when they're part of a ship that can keep itself functioning by splicing human organs to itself.

It used whatever it could find at the time to stay alive, so its limbs are made out of junk, but it knows about gorgeous, intricate clockwork mechanisms because it holds information about 18th century France within its memory banks and believes that its entire existence relies on somebody from that period, so it makes that junk look stunning. And we're tapping into the whole artifical life thing that was popular at that time - mechanical ducks and mannequins that could play chess.

There's none of that with the zeppelins. They're a visual shortcut that has no link with anything else in this alternate Earth. If they're a symbol of wealth, how come there's not anything in the Tyler mansion that relates to them or reflects their design? There's no way that a rich Jackie would pass up the opportunity to boast about her status through possessions. How come nothing else in the world even hints at being based on the same technology? How is it that all other tools being used in the alternate London are either the same as we've got now, or else based on things we recognise from our own world and time? You don't get a world that continues to use zeppelins as a mode of transport without having that feed back into other aspects of day to day existence, especially not when they're as much of a presence as they were in the skies of the first of these two episodes.

It's careless and thoughtless. That's why it irks me. Noel Whatsits was on DW Confidential last night, banging on about how great the art guys on the show are because they'd included a jokey instructions sticker on the big fire extinguisher guns from the clockwork robots episode. They must have had a totally different art team on these two, because they lacked the kind of internal consitency (set dressing, art direction, whatever) of that one.

Even the Cybermen. Trigger spends all day, every day inside his big hot air balloon, and yet he creates something that has absolutely no visual or technological links with his surroundings. I don't buy it.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:45 / 21.05.06
They just. Look. Cool.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:46 / 21.05.06
I mean, seriously: they look cool and they're a simple visual shortcut for the fact that this is like our world, but not (as also employed by Grace Morribon in teh Invisibles). Demanding that they be anything more than that seems a little... kovacsian.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:57 / 21.05.06
I just expect more from my Who, is all. The zeps were the lazy cherry on top of a lazy cake of laziness.

And, I guess, the fact that it's not the most original way of getting the "we're not in Kansas any more" message across. Here, for example.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:48 / 21.05.06
Well I loved it. And I'm with Fly on the "they looked cool" thing.

Am I the only person on this board who's actually enjoying this series?
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
21:54 / 21.05.06
Hi there! I'm easily pleased!
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
22:00 / 21.05.06
Hey, Stoatie, I'm enjoying it. I really am. I enjoyed the hell out of "Tooth and Claw." And "School Reunion." And "Girl in the Fireplace."

I'm not anti-Who in the least.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
22:05 / 21.05.06
I'm enjoying it - it's as uneven as the previous series, the annoying bits are the same ones as from the previous series (OTT music, OTT "isn't this an ADVENTURE, Rose!" stuff - yes, RTD, we get it!), but there's been plenty of good stuff. Every time I start to have doubts about Tennant, he does something great (like the moment when you realise he knows Micky can see him and that this isn't just another rant). Then again, my expectations seem to be very different from those of some other people: it goes out at 7pm on BBC1 on a Saturday afternoon, after all. And it's never made me cry.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:06 / 21.05.06
Ah. That's all right then. I was starting to worry.

(BTW- everything makes me cry. I'm probably not a good yardstick in that respect).
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
22:16 / 21.05.06
Well, again I have to profess that Stoatie was right on the money when he said "School Reunion" would make me cry. It did.

Anyway, I'm not saying the 1st Cybermen episode is crap, but I just didn't care for it. Though Tennant in a tux and specs is definitely worth watching.

Sorry. Being a girl there.
 
 
iamus
22:24 / 21.05.06
I really enjoyed the first Cyberman episode but this one left me a bit cold. Not too sure if it was actually crap or if I wasn't in the right frame of mind. There definitely were a good few crap bits, but it wasn't just crap bits. I liked the Cyberman emotion stuff for a start.

I too am loving the series as a whole though. I found Fireplace to be especially joycore.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
22:27 / 21.05.06
Oooh yes. Especially Madame du Pompadour talking to Rose about how the monsters are worth it.

The bit with the letter at the end made me all sad.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:07 / 21.05.06
Then again, my expectations seem to be very different from those of some other people: it goes out at 7pm on BBC1 on a Saturday afternoon, after all.

So we should expect less of it than we would something on a less mainstream channel or in a different time slot? Not having that, Fly. And even if that were the case, I know that the team behind this can do better - the quality falls and climbs with every passing week. I don't think it's asking too much to expect it to maintain the high quality of the better episodes.
 
 
Seth
02:26 / 22.05.06
How about you take yourself over to ain't it cool, add up the number of stars for each episode, divide by the number of reviews and only watch the ones that are worth your valuable time?

Who else was disappointed that Rose didn't make a joke about the number of times she's ended up dangling from a zeppelin over London? Along with the lack of a Buffy in-joke in the Head episode it was one hell of a missed opportunity.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:05 / 22.05.06
I hear that one of the blackboards had "Relocate to Sunnydale?" written on it, if it helps.
 
 
sleazenation
07:27 / 22.05.06
It was my understanding that no such message actually appeared...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:01 / 22.05.06
So we should expect less of it than we would something on a less mainstream channel or in a different time slot? Not having that, Fly.

Well that's admirably resolute of you, but... I'm not sure it's a case of expecting less, exactly. But to completely ignore this kind of context, or expect the show to have the same kind of tone or content as one that goes out at 9pm on Sky or 10pm on E4, seems wilfully blind...
 
 
Cherielabombe
08:16 / 22.05.06
I could've sworn that that "Relocate to Sunnydale" message DID appear, in the school reunion episode. By defer to the superior Who-obsessives here.

I thought this past episode was kind of boring, actually. I was happy to see Mickey go because I was tired of hearing him whine about being the tin dog (though that was true.) I preferred the first Cyberman episode. Maybe they should have tied everything from this one into one episode?

That said, I *am* enjoying the series. My favorite one so far being the Madame de Pompadour episode. Very well-written, I think, an the one I keep thinking back to.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
08:41 / 22.05.06
It goes to show the difficulty of a good cliffhanger, to build it up and then sort it out in about two seconds in the second episode, with a quick use of 'bollockscience'? And what exactly did happen? The Doctor dazed the Cybermen by blasting them with his life force from his recharging crystal? O-kay...

There were the good points and the naff. I think the arc for Mickey in this season was a fine one to take, but it's presentation in the stories didn't work for me. I no more believed Mickey wanting to stay in this parallel world because his gran is alive and he knows Rose doesn't love him than him wanting to go with them in School Reunion. That was effectively done with in Boom Town and The Parting of the Ways. It needed to be presented more as Mickey going looking for something, not necessarily Rose, which would have made his decision on Saturday night make more sense.

More to come...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:48 / 22.05.06
Ah, well. Just ignore me, then, re: Sunnydale. I didn't see it...

On expectations... hmmm. Interesting one. I think I probably hold Doctor Who to about the same standards as I did Buffy in my younger days. So, I won't be surprised if some of the direction is rushed, or some of the line readings a bit ropy. As such, I'm looking for general signs of an upward trajectory rather than sustained excellence. So, in the middle of the good stuff you'll also have farting aliens or crap rubber suits.

This series has been a bit jolly and a bit deus ex machina-heavy for my tastes, so far, but I've also found it to be a lot of fun - it just seems to be trying to cram too much into each episode. When you consider that Buffy managed to move an overarching plot along, and develop characters despite a far larger central cast, you can see some of the disadvantages of the kitchen-sink approach. Some of the pacing seems a bit off - Mrs Moore seemed to get nearly as much time as the climactic defeat of the Cybermen, and even with little people matter fishcakes that seems a bit much - also the vast acting vortex of Micky, Ricky and Byker Boyband bloke. It's not that I didn't find this fun, but it felt like a bit of a waste of the Cybermen. Hmmm.

Still, there was some good stuff, though - if you can get around the idea that Lumic had the foresight to sync a mobile phone charger into his evil command centre, the Tennant speech was good precisely because it was a cynical ploy to get the necessary information over to Micky - almost a pastiche of the Ecclestone wide-eyed nonsense. Also, for all his compassion this Doctor didn't have a problem with driving however many people had been cybernated - thousands of people, certainly - horribly and hopelessly insane to resolve the wider issue. I think the Tennant Doctor is starting to make more sense to me - he's giggly and bubbly around Billie, but has no problem at all with really messing people up - the "no second chances" line from The Christmas Invasion. Although he's still being inconsistently written - by that logic he would have taken Queen Victoria dahn.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
09:40 / 22.05.06
Also the Lumic character and his sketchily assumed aspirations annoyed me, he created the Cybermen out of a desire to transcend the frailties of the human body, but by the logic of the show was also a demented nutter that wanted to take over the world until that one fateful day when he thought "I know, I can kill two birds with one stone here!" And why create emotionless metal men? It only needed a few lines of dialogue to clarify the link between the emotional inhibitors and stopping people from being shocked at being turned into Cybermen. By being unwilling to go through the process of being turned into a Cyberman until he'd taken over the world rather implies he knew being a Cyberman wasn't that great.

As for the wonderphone, that really was crap. I would have preferred "Hah-hah! Mickey's found your secret code Lumic, all I have to do is plug this phone into your console and- bugger, they're incompatable. Has anyone got an Earth-Prime to Earth-2 adaption cable?"

At the end, when the Cyber-Controller falls from the rope ladder, was it dodgy CGI or do people think he actually vanishes before hitting the inferno?

All in all, it wasn't bad, Mrs Moore was actually growing on me up to the point when she was killed and at least this episode was Torchwood free. I also liked how Pete rejects Rose when he learns the truth. I can only assume that all that stuff about Mrs Moore's real name and family is leading somewhere as otherwise all that stuff for the sake of some local colour would have been annoying otherwise.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:43 / 22.05.06
As for the wonderphone, that really was crap. I would have preferred "Hah-hah! Mickey's found your secret code Lumic, all I have to do is plug this phone into your console and- bugger, they're incompatable. Has anyone got an Earth-Prime to Earth-2 adaption cable?"

But it's already been established that they are compatible in the previous episode.
 
 
Evil Scientist
09:48 / 22.05.06
If they're a symbol of wealth, how come there's not anything in the Tyler mansion that relates to them or reflects their design? There's no way that a rich Jackie would pass up the opportunity to boast about her status through possessions.

Jackie explicitly complained about Pete not buying them an airship in the first episode.

The zeps worked fine for me. Various tidbits from the first episode underlined that all was not well in the UK. What with central London having areas under military control. There's obviously some kind of civil disorder/unrest going on. The rich and powerful live in the air because it means the smelly working class oiks can't get to them. The existence of the Preachers suggests that society's over-reliance on the news they get from the earPods is leaving them vulnerable to media manipulation.

Plus, as has been pointed out, they looked cool.

Even the Cybermen. Trigger spends all day, every day inside his big hot air balloon, and yet he creates something that has absolutely no visual or technological links with his surroundings. I don't buy it.

Why would he though? That zep is his tomb, he's trapped inside it in an ever decaying body. Why would he want his greatest creation to eternally remind him of the slow death of his flesh?

What didn't make any sense was that he'd suddenly come over all coy about being transferred into his shiny new body. From the way he acted in Part 1 it's surprising he wasn't one of the first into the operating booth.

I'm enjoying the series so far, it has to be said. It's fun. I'm liking the continued development of Rose and the Doctor's relationship (Piper was on Confidential and pointed out something I missed. Mickey tells them he's staying and her first question is "What happens if I need you?" it's all about her).
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:07 / 22.05.06
What didn't make any sense was that he'd suddenly come over all coy about being transferred into his shiny new body. From the way he acted in Part 1 it's surprising he wasn't one of the first into the operating booth.

I'd have to go back over thhe dialogue, but I think the plan was that he would delay the cybernation process for as long as possible in order to perfect the process - to make it as painless and effective as possible. Mind you, the vast numbers of Cyberman shells suggested that he was pretty confident with the basic design...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:09 / 22.05.06
I think he just chickened out at the last minute, you know - it's hardly uncommon, is it? "I'm going to do this... It's going to be great! ...Everything's been leading up to this moment! ...Oh shit, I don't want to do this... Maybe later?"
 
 
sleazenation
10:14 / 22.05.06
Yeah, Rose has been a bit more overtly selfish recently, although she is strangely unpossessive of the doctor when he has his little romance with madame du P, she didn't like meeting sarah Jane, and was more concerned about her alternate parents than her purported boyfriend...

One thought that pops into my head and will only be explored in fanfic - when mickey, Rose and the Doctor were in the tardis together, where did they all sleep?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:15 / 22.05.06
Or he's realised that if he becomes a cyberman then John Lumic is actually about as dead as he would be if his lungs stopped working, after his little chat with the Cybermen.
 
 
GogMickGog
10:21 / 22.05.06
Further to all things Cyber, if anyone has the time to waste online, some wag's put up the rather ace "Tomb of the Cybermen" in its entirety up on youtube.com, in 12 parts:

Tomb of the cybermen
 
 
sleazenation
10:21 / 22.05.06
There is an element though i notice in both BSG and the new who that 45 minutes is often not enough time to fit all the narrative in and leave enough room for nuanced characterisation...

That and the realization of some key plot arcs works better in concept than execution...
 
 
Saveloy
10:27 / 22.05.06
Dupre:

"Even the Cybermen. Trigger spends all day, every day inside his big hot air balloon, and yet he creates something that has absolutely no visual or technological links with his surroundings. I don't buy it."

I thought all the Cybus tech made sense, visually. The zeps and the cybermen shared a certain "early 20th Century" styling, as did the curvy ear pods, now I think about it - they reminded me of 1930s bakelite light switches.
 
  

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