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Marvel's 'Civil War'.

 
  

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Mario
19:56 / 02.07.06
Yes to both. I pretty much ruled it out, but what with characters acting weird all of a sudden....
 
 
The Falcon
20:10 / 02.07.06
I think it's just the way Millar writes 'em, tbh; it's not a bother with the Ultimates, since only he's really had his hands on them, but is a bit jarring with, ahem, '616' folks.
 
 
Spaniel
22:33 / 02.07.06
Agreed. I see absolutely nothing here that I haven't seen in Millar's writing before now.

Of course there could be some big bad behind the scenes, but I think that would serve to toally undermine the story, and I doubt [Christ, I can't think for that FUCKING DOG'S barking ARGGGGGH] that even the editors at Marvel are dumb enough not to have noticed that.
 
 
rabideyemovement
23:20 / 02.07.06
Sounds just like Millar to me to write something that so symbolically represents the changes in current American culture. The Stamford Incident is clearly representative of 9-11, with Nitro as Osama bin Laden, the evil mastermind who was really just a patsy. I could so totally see the entire plot being orchestrated by a HYDRA-infected SHIELD (NSA)and the HateMonger(George Bush?).
And yes, Hate-Monger was an Adolf Hitler clone. So we have Red Skull returning in Captain America, and Baron Zemo has a secret agenda in Thunderbolts. Even Cap and Union Jack just met up with Master Man and some NAZI villains, and Sin has teamed up with Crossbones.

Is 616 America primed for takeover by the NAZIS?
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
23:32 / 02.07.06
Oh, there'sd always been a tonne of Nazis floating around in the Marvel Universe. They are an easy bad guy, and it furthers the tie-ins to Marvel's Golden Age. Just about every major organizastion of bad guys has roots involving Nazis in WWII, which means they had MUCH better long term planning in the Marvel U.
 
 
Spaniel
23:39 / 02.07.06
The thing that you're not getting, Rabid, is that the moral ambiguity and the emotional power of piece depends on friend fighting friend because, fundamentally, they disagree, not because some arch fiend has been manipulating them all. Introduce a conventional baddie and you a) sap the strength of the core narrative (war in the superhero community), and b) walk straight back into hackneyed villain of the week territory.

None of that's to say what you're proposing is implausible, just that I feel it's unlikely and wrong-headed.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
23:42 / 02.07.06
The thing is, anyone who's read the latest issue of Wolverine, or even the solicitations for it and future issues, will have figured out by now that someone paid Nitro to cause the Stamford Distaster, i.e. it is a conspiracy, the heroes are being played, there is an evil mastermind behind it all. As a lot of people have pointed out, that invalidates a lot of the more interesting things that Civil War is supposed to be "about". But is anyone really surprised?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
23:46 / 02.07.06
Well, maybe Boboss would be surprised. But I'm surprised at that. Wrong-headed, yes. Unlikely? No.

Incidentally, the second issues of the main title and Front Line seem to be introducing some balance... By making a lot of the anti-registration people seem like wankers too: drunken fool Prodigy, Cable grinning and talking about kicking ass... The only two really good CW-related comics I've read have both been by Bendis (Illuminati and New Avengers #21), and even then the second one relies on everyone already hating Hank Pym.
 
 
Spaniel
23:49 / 02.07.06
Coincidentally , I've just downloaded and read Wolverine, and, yep, it looks like I was wrong, wrong, wrong, and that's very probably a bad, bad, bad thing.

It appears that Marvel really doesn't have the courage of it's own convictions, or the wherewithall to get the most out've this storyline. Buncha twunts.
 
 
rabideyemovement
00:46 / 03.07.06
Why can't it be both? The concept of certain heroes being legitemized and having to fight the illegitemate ones. The fear of the public overwhelming their good sense. An evil puppeteer who stands to gain from having half a country's heroes outlawed...
Sounds like a damn good story to me, and so far it mostly has been. It's nowhere near being wrapped up. This plot could easily carry on for another year, with only the underground resistance knowing the secret behind the Stamford Incident.
 
 
Spaniel
07:19 / 03.07.06
It could be both, certainly. I just don't think that's the best way of telling this story, for the reasons outlined above (in my posts and others). Doesn't mean I'm giving up on Civil War, however, and, yeah, there's still a lot of time left - it's possible I'll have a different attitude by the end, although I doubt it.
 
 
The Falcon
22:01 / 03.07.06
Hum, had not read teh solicit as had no intention of reading comic.

The only set-up in the actual series for anyone to have paid off Nitro, thus far - and we're pushing on a bit already, would be Agent Hill/SHIELD. It's clear, as far back as her early appearances in 'Breakout' in New Avengers, that SHIELD is up to bad business under her tenure and she was certainly quick enough to push Cap to breaking point herein. Also, comic writers are ace at making women in powerful positions well dodgy, see also: Amanda 'The Wall' Waller, Val Cooper, etc. So that could work, and also reinforce govt. critique angles, and be okay apart from the whole 'powerful lady = baddie' (which basically... what's Hill there for? To make SHIELD shits, as far as I can see,) bit.

I have now typed SHIELD four times, and this will be the last, as brain is entering shutdown. It just doesn't really work otherwise - I was really quite hacked off at the payoff in Robinson's 'Face the Face' Batman thing, which apparently heeds some three year-old DC mini for said. This is not 'ballsy' as one reviewer put it, but rather really quite annoying; there's lots of other good things about the arc, but if you're playing a mystery with no clues of any use, or - in this case - no real evidence in the main that in fact there is one, except perhaps to total devotees who've read all the exterior related media... it's like trying to guess the end of Taggart (not a great example, as I did like that, but still. Even then the villain would have appeared, however briefly, at some point. One time it was a bus conductor.)
 
 
The Falcon
22:06 / 03.07.06
New Avs ish 'really good', then? Everyone seems to say Chaykin drew it with his bum, and his art would've otherwise* been a primary factor in my purchassssing.

*Which is to say, using hands.
 
 
Mario
22:11 / 03.07.06
I think it's an unwritten rule at Marvel that when Nick Fury ISN'T running SHIELD, it's corrupt. A similar rule applies to any DC government organization and Amanda Waller.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:04 / 03.07.06
New Avengers.. hmm. I actually kind of disliked it. The art was post-stroke - all weird arses and buskins. The scripting relied on the Falcon sounding exactly like Luke Cage (that'll cause some confusion). Also: Captain America is so deep in thought that he doesn't notice twenty men in heavy armour assemble in a circle around him. My arse. Unless the caption said "I'm so busy masturbating with Evanescence playing incredibly loud on my iPod I don't notice them.... until it's too late", I'm not buying.

On the plus side, Hank Pym's giant nose is broken.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:11 / 19.07.06
Issue #3 out today. With a super-shocker cover! Well, not really, but maybe super-shocking to some...
 
 
Cowboy Scientist
05:22 / 20.07.06
This is the cover for CW 4:



So, Thor is back. And he beat the crap out of Daredevil. What a bastard! You're a god and he's a blind man!
 
 
sn00p
12:26 / 20.07.06
I really thought he would be with cap.
Where's the sentry in all this?
Couldn't he just kick everyones ass?
The sides are really uneven.
 
 
rabideyemovement
15:12 / 20.07.06
The Sentry is gonna be Cap's ace in all this... As for Daredevil, he's not blind, he's Clint Barton.
 
 
Robert B
15:38 / 20.07.06
Whose side is Thor on exactly though? There are two Anti-Registration (DD and Hercules) people down and one Pro-Registration (Wasp) on the cover . Maybe Thor is on his own side?
 
 
slagar
16:11 / 20.07.06
that's not Daredevil. there's someone masquerading as Daredevil while Matt Murdock is in jail.

he's my favorite to be killed as in the next issue a hero is suppose to die and i've always liked the idea of an imposter being killed in someone's uniform.

Thor just appeared in the last page. i'm not entirely sure why he'd appear on Stark's side, other than Mr. Fantastic knew the Hammer had returned and contacted the person to whom it belonged.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:30 / 20.07.06
I'm increasingly liking the idea of Clint Barton just getting killed over and over and over and over and over...
 
 
Professor Silly
18:41 / 20.07.06
During my first reading I assumed that Thor was showing up to stop the fighting, but upon rereading it I noticed the "Codename Lightning" references from the S.H.I.E.L.D. director.

Which does beg the question: why would Thor choose Iron Man's side...for that matter, why would Thor choose either side?

Still, I can't deny the feeling of giddy excitement upon seeing that last page.

p.s. The Cable/Deadpool tie-in was surprisingly funny, and I really enjoyed the Civil War: X-Men issue.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
02:35 / 21.07.06
As for Daredevil, he's not blind, he's Clint Barton.

Is this official yet? I mean, we saw the guy with his mask off, and while he kind of looks like Mr. Murdock he isn't blind. Yet, no one ever refers to him by name (I'm assuming this is intentional). Are there any other candidates? Because I think Cap would recognize Hawkeye. Just saying.
 
 
Cowboy Scientist
05:42 / 21.07.06
Other candidates... Danny Rand? (a.k.a. Iron Fist)
 
 
Spaniel
10:56 / 21.07.06
He does look bizarrely like Matt Murdock, and I'm trying to understand why anyone would actually think he was, what with Matt, you know, being in jail. Christ, I'm normally the last person to complain about shit like this.

And no, Mark Millar, Spderman would not crack fucking wise while punching Captain America in the face. You might, Spiderman wouldn't.

You cock.
 
 
This Sunday
11:31 / 21.07.06
Am I the last Clint Barton fan? He's an Avenger and kicked Iron Man's ass - with arrows and purple leather. He totally flirts with everything that moves from the Scarlet Witch to Captain America. Oh, and he survived Liefield dressing him like a brown Plantman, made it through using Pym Particles without getting killed or going nuts, and, y'know, he had a flying metal horsie-bike-floaty thing. Yay, Hawkeye!

Of course, if he comes and dies and comes back often enough, it's just like having him around anyway.

Maybe he could be Xorn.
 
 
Spaniel
11:35 / 21.07.06
I don't think Haus's comment had anything to do with disliking Hawkeye.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:41 / 21.07.06
Boboss - apparently the idea is that the identity of the person currently posing as Daredevil is being kept under wraps in Civil War so that Brubaker's story isn't spoiled, but once it's been revealed in Daredevil the comic, it will then also be mentioned in upcoming issues of Civil War. In other words, I think some of the people on Cap's team do know who he is, we've just not seen them mention it. Which is clumsy, but preferable to certain other fuck-ups.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
12:18 / 21.07.06
Maybe he could be Xorn.

It is increasingly apparent that all things are Xorn and Xorn is all things. My secret Marvel sources tell me that the final page of Civil War #8 will be of Xorn holding a snow-globe with the entire Marvel universe inside, followed by a short statement from Stan Lee and Joe Queseda saying that the Marvel Universe is now complete and the company shall never again publish another comic.
 
 
Spaniel
13:06 / 21.07.06
Yeah, I get that, Fly. Even if I give Marvel the benefit of the doubt and assume all this is taking place after Murdock's jailbreak, it's still awkward as fuck.
 
 
slagar
13:24 / 21.07.06

the Daredevil imposter has been handled poorly in Civil War. someone, say Spiderman, along the line should have said, or thought, "isn't he in jail?" when they saw someone in the DD suit. Marvel seems to be assuming that the readers of Civil War are reading the Daredevil book.

Murdock's identity isn't that much of a secret, is it?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:36 / 21.07.06
Did anyone read what I actually posted? It's not Matt Murdock, and they all know that, we're just not being shown them calling whoever it is by name.
 
 
Professor Silly
15:27 / 21.07.06
In the Cable/Deadpool tie-in, Deadpool figures out who the new Daredevil is (while fighting him), but is put down by Captain America before he can say the name. It does look like his teammates know who he is, but are keeping their lips sealed.
 
 
gridley
16:41 / 21.07.06
The Daredevil imposter might be a teenager. I've noticed him saying things like "posse" and "'sup?"

Oh, I'm pretty sure I saw him updating his MySpace page.
 
  

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