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Underground > Comic Books >

Marvel's 'Civil War'.

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Shiny: Well Over Thirty

19:24 / 10.05.06

Thinking about it the whole corrupt government thing really is key it isn't it? I mean in theory in my ideal world I'd definitely prefer for people who run around brawling with immense superpowers to be registered, accountable and properly trained, however noble there intentions may be - but then in my ideal world the government they'd be registering with would be a genuinely accountable, incorruptible people's government not a bunch of corrupt warmongering bastards. I can't recall the last time the government of 616 America was specifically mentioned, so I assume it's basically the same people as meatspace America and I since I don't suppose 616 Bush or 616 Cheney are any nicer than their meatspace alternates, so that would pose a bit of a problem with the whole registartion thing.

Phex: Dorset Doom

20:06 / 10.05.06

Yeah, I gaurantee Spidey will switch sides. He'll take his Iron Spidey armor off, be sitting all depressed and nude and say something like 'I can't WEAR this ARMOR when I know what it REPRESENTS', then Aunt May or M.J will come in with a regular spandex red'n'blue costume and be like "PETER, I SAVED this for YOU'. Then he'll beat the snot out of Tony Stark and say something like 'Hey, TONY, how much FREEDOM would you give up to not have me HAND YOU YOUR ASS!?!'.
Okay the third part is wishful thinking (Millar, if you're reading this then you have my permission to use that line), but the rest will happen, mark my words.

07:42 / 11.05.06

I can't recall the last time the government of 616 America was specifically mentioned, so I assume it's basically the same people as meatspace America and I since I don't suppose 616 Bush or 616 Cheney are any nicer than their meatspace alternates, so that would pose a bit of a problem with the whole registartion thing.

I brought the most recent Thunderbolts trade at the weekend (which has a House of M tie-in so not that old). That has Condi Rice in it.

Marvel has a habit of never showing the President's face. It's normally pretty obviously them, but the face is always in shadow.

Except in the Ultimate-verse where Bush chats with Cap, and is also occasionally forced to lick Magneto's boots.

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:33 / 11.05.06

And in the first issue of Civil War.

03:29 / 16.05.06

Cobalt Kid posted this on Legion World:

MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!

23:02 / 16.05.06

Here's the thing that's getting me about Civil War: when it was planned, and probably 99% plotted and written, the analogy was obvious: AARRRGGH 9/11 SECURITY VS. FREEDOM TRADEOFF!!1!ONE!

And recent events (massive NSA phone call databasing, among other things) have brought that into sharper relief.

But the more interesting analogy -- from where I sit -- is the more recent, almost-post-Civil-War flare-up of talk about "undocumented workers/illegal immigrants."

A perfect world wouldn't need super-vigilantes; it also wouldn't need somebody sneaking across the border to pick strawberries for $1 an hour. Both the heroes and the undocumented workers fill this weird societal niche where it's easy to bash 'em, and easy to condemn 'em as unsafe and damaging to society, but impossible to step up to the plate and say "I'll take their place."

Nobody's fault -- Millar, I'm sure, is trying to do a compelling "ripped from the headlines of today!" story to the best of his middlin' abilities. But I'd rather see a Civil War skewed around the "can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em" problem with super-heroes than the current approach.

06:10 / 20.05.06

Here's a preview page from issue 2 (not too spoilery, jut the military after a superhero pic)

Millar is making it pretty easy to pick a side.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

13:50 / 20.05.06

Who the hell is that supposed to be? Composite-Costumes Lad?

13:56 / 20.05.06

Patriot, of the Young Avengers. He's the grandson of the hero from the Truth miniseries.

Professor Silly

16:27 / 25.05.06

I'll admit: I've been suckered into their ploy. I picked up the Wolverine and She-Hulk tie-ins and found myself pleasantly surprised. Anyone else purchase these issues?

The thing I liked best about Wolverine especially was that dialogue found in Civil War #1 was duplicated and expanded on, which really served to enrich that first issue for me.

I'm unfortunately tempted to get all of the tie-ins now...THOSE BASTARDS!

16:54 / 25.05.06

Dude, that's like 75 comics.

I'm going to get Captain America, because I get it anyway, and it'll prolly mark a bit of seachange in his status quo and mmmmaybe the New Avs 'Disassembled' arc because there's some pretty good artists (Chaykin, Yu) on it and I did like my last Bendis book after a wee break (Illuminati spesh.)

rabideyemovement

07:12 / 26.05.06

Did anyone else spot what would seem to be a new model of E.V.A. (Fantomex's ship) in She-Hulk this week?
Calling it E.V.O., the military are training John Jameson as a pilot, with the intention of combating flying superhero fugitives. Also you get a glimpse of fugitive Cap.

18:51 / 26.05.06

I quite like Slott's She Hulk but that crossover ish did absolutely nothing to move the Civil War plot along.
A complete waste of time.

10:24 / 27.05.06

She-Hulk is one of my favorite books at the moment but I really thought this issue sucked hard. Didn't really gel with the previous issues and I just felt it was really forced. But then I hate tie-ins for crossover events, so I was already ill-disposed towards it.

rabideyemovement

14:38 / 27.05.06

Well, if it sets up a storyline where Jameson will be given orders to combat his hero friends, then I see the point of it. I could care less about ManWolf proposing to SheHulk, but the bit with EVA-1 was intriguing. Makes me wonder if the government will be drafting more Weapon Plus programs to fight the rogue heroes.

19:01 / 28.05.06

I don't buy She-Hulk, seems like a fun book, I Byrne-steal/skim it most of the time....nice to see Paul Smith back on regular art duties. And fun to see someone do something with the character of John Jameson.

19:07 / 28.05.06

Well, if it sets up a storyline where Jameson will be given orders to combat his hero friends, then I see the point of it.

Yeah, but frankly I think that hardly justifies an entire ish given over to the Civil War arc.

17:53 / 30.05.06

Did anybody notice the 90s-era joke-hero Slapstick helping the New Warriors and Jen in She-Hulk #8? Just another little nugget of fun from Dan Slott. That guy's a genius!

18:09 / 30.05.06

I was wondering who that guy was.

Professor Silly

17:24 / 02.06.06

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Looks like first thing next issue (Amazing Spider-Man 533) Peter will reveal his identity to the world at Iron Man's request (with May and Mary Jane's approval, of course).

17:35 / 02.06.06

From my Byrne-steal yesterday of the issue of Amazing Spider-Man that sets this up, it seemed like a pretty well-written issue examining Peter's crisis of conscience as to whether or not to reveal his ID.

I still don't believe he'll actually *get* to reveal it - right before he utters the words, the Rhino will burst through a wall or something. Then Peter will be distracted and eventually switch sides to Cap's camp before he reveals his ID, Tony will be pissed, there will be rift in the New Avengers, etc. etc.

rabideyemovement

15:07 / 03.06.06

Grrr... I'd hate for Spidey to unmask. That's a really tough one to take back without some kind of House of M, global mindswipe event. But think of the cool plots you could churn out of Parker's public identity. What would Jonah say when he finds out he's employed his archnemesis all these years. We could finally find out that Robbie and Ben Urich knew all along. And after Millar's Marvel Knights Spidey, didn't most of those villains discover his secret?
Unmasking him would be a big mistake, and if they do it, then I'd presume that there's some big reality altering event waiting just around the corner to retcon the mess.

Bubblegum Death

20:19 / 03.06.06

Unmasking him would be a big mistake, and if they do it, then I'd presume that there's some big reality altering event waiting just around the corner to retcon the mess.

I think something like that will happen. Spidey will reveal his identity; something bad will end up happening to Mary Jane or Aunt May; they'll have some event that will retcon the whole marriage.

20:39 / 03.06.06

I think it's more than likely that CW will fuck up their marriage. It's a no brainer - MJ doesn't want him to unmask, he unmasks, problems arise as a result, marriage breaks down.

20:45 / 03.06.06

Isn't there a grand tradition of identities becoming public then subsequently being reestablished as secret? Not sure global events are needed.

Bubblegum Death

20:59 / 03.06.06

Maybe not. I've been reading too much Newsarama and Wizard lately. Joe Quesada has been saying how much he hates the marriage, but you can't widow or divorce Spider-man because it makes him seem even older. That's why I think they'll end up retconning the ID reveal and the marriage.

21:04 / 03.06.06

Bet you five English pounds the events of CW lead to the break-up.

Why do you think Joe Q is going on about it now? 'Scalled hype.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

21:49 / 03.06.06

Didn't MJ say she agreed with Aunt May's decision in the issue?

22:11 / 03.06.06

You might have a point. I'm going to go have a reread.

Whatever, I still think CW gonna be the spur for a divorce. Bear in mind that Peter is likely going to change sides, so if MJ supports the unmasking and Peter goes all renegade...

03:32 / 04.06.06

Why not man? The Spidey titles are so weird now anyway, and it might be super fun to see years of stories where everyone knows who Spidey is. I mean it wouldn't mess up the Marvel world too much, if you want Spidey hated, he could still be hated with a public ID, if you want him loved, the people could love him with a public ID. He could still be angsty if that's what you wanna do with him.

09:25 / 04.06.06

Hey, I'm down wid it.

I couldn't give a buggery hoot if it's all retconned two years from now with a magical world changing thingumy wotsit. I'm of the opinion that ongoing continuity ultimately devalues pretty much every major character moment anyway. My primary concern is fun plots here and now, 'cause in the long-term it's all dust.

16:26 / 04.06.06

Quesada has made many public comments recently how he thinks a married Peter Parker is not good for stories; Peter being the hard-luck hero married to a supermodel, etc. etc. He's stated that Peter is different than, say, Clark Kent and his marriage with Lois Lane. While I agree that a married Spider-Man does edge out many soap opera story possibilities and marriages are hard to write well in mainstream super-hero comics, I'm hesitant about Q's seeming intent to break up the marriage.

In a recent Newsarama article, Q said:

>> Still carrying the thread [of Peter's marriage to Mary Jane], talking more about the marriage, and echoing [editor Tom] Brevoort's sentiments, Quesada, perhaps not even realizing he said it, and not phrasing it as a hypothetical, said (paraphrasing) he'll get back with Mary Jane, it may be a year, it may be two years, but it's how you get there. This was the most direct, albeit inadvertent, indication of where things are headed for the Spider marriage.

Hmmmm.

16:29 / 04.06.06

It will be interesting to see how Q. & Co. at Marvel get Peter out of the marriage without making either Peter or MJ seem like jerks.

On a likely separate topic:

>> Touching upon a topic from a previous panel, Brevoort said that with the last pages of Civil War #2 "your jaw will be on the floor, and the internet will be aflame."

16:40 / 04.06.06

Here's an idea. Peter unmasks then suffers an enormous crisis of faith and feels morally compelled to switch sides- unfortunately that makes him a wanted man and he is forced to go on the run. Meanwhile, some of his enemies move in on MJ and May (perhaps the government protection they received when Pete was on the pro-registration side is revoked, unbeknownst to Peter) and she's put in mortal danger, maybe even hospitalised. Alternatively perhaps when Peter switches the government turns real nasty, jailing and possibly torturing (or the superhero equivalent - psychic probes, etc...) MJ and/or May.

Basically it'll be the old following one's conscience means betraying (perhaps unknowingly) those closest to us storyline.

Professor Silly

17:54 / 05.06.06

MJ and May both supported the decision, even when Peter was having doubts, so I doubt the unmasking will put the marriage at risk. Switching sides might have a different effect, depending on how it goes down.

Most of his major villians (G.Goblin, Venom, Doc Ock) already know who he is. All the unmasking does in these cases is remove a major weapon (blackmail) from his villians' arsenals.

I agree that Jameson's reaction to the news should be most interesting--will he react like May did (realizing that Spider-Man isn't so bad after all, and confessing she knew deep down all along but was afraid to admit it) or will he wind up hating Peter for all the lies over the years....

I'm psyched, but then I've been enjoying Strazynski's run on Amazing all along, which I realize is not the norm here on Barbelith. What can I say: I have pecular tastes.

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