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Marvel's 'Civil War'.

 
  

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_Boboss
13:21 / 04.04.06
what? you mean xavier had a team between the original team and the debut of the wolvie/colossus/nightcrawler 'new' team? was that what the krakoa reference in illuminati was about?

and am i right in guessing that, chuck and maggie aside, all of the famous muties have their powers still?
 
 
Quimper
14:10 / 04.04.06
The 198 are the number of mutants outside of all the major players on an X-team. They've done their best to round everyone up...getting 198. There are probably more out there, but right now the known mutant population consists of the Children of the Atom + the 198.

And yes, there was a 1.5 team. It just came out that Chuck recruited 4 students of Moira—including the 3rd summers brother (Gabriel/Vulcan)—to save the 1.0 team from Krakoa before he recruited 2.0. Things went bad (read: they died or were shot into space). So Chuck erased everyone's knowledge of them. The House of M awoke Vulcan, whose body was floating in space. He came back down to earth with the powers of all 4 students somehow and exacted sweet vengence on the X-Men. Bastard killed Banshee.
 
 
The Falcon
14:20 / 04.04.06
I think Blob was the other major casualty of teh House. I dunno, maybe all the original Brotherhood of Evil Muties got it?
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
23:18 / 04.04.06
Blob, Jubalee, Chamber, Angel, Polaris, Rictor... a decent ammount of former A listers and current B and C listers got hit by the depowering crap.

Yet strangely enough, all of the mutant members of the GLX managed to keep their powers. Funny ol world, innit?
 
 
The Falcon
12:29 / 05.04.06
Actually looking at the Brotherhood's original line-up they took a total hit: Magneto, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch and Blob lost 'em, dunno about Toad and Mastermind is either a) deid or b) going to resurface in Astonishing. I reckon.

Polaris is, I think, a horseman of Apocalypse just now (Pestilence,) so she'll be juiced.
 
 
Evil Scientist
12:40 / 05.04.06
the 3rd summers brother (Gabriel/Vulcan)—

Gabriel Summers? Yech! With a name like that it's no wonder Chuck erased everyone's memory of him.

Alex, Scott, ....and Gabriel.

Makes me long for the days of X-Treme (a 3rd brother suspect from the 90s).
 
 
Mario
13:18 / 05.04.06
X-Treme wasn't a suspect... he was the PAYOFF.

Consider the following:

Mr. Sinister first hints of another Summers brother in X-Men #23, written by Fabian Niceza.

Adam-X was introduced in X-Force Annual #2, written by... Fabian Niceza

He was attacked by Arcade at the behest of "Milbury" (Mr. Sinister) in X-Force #30, written by... Fabian Niceza.

He interacted with Phillip Summers in X-men #39, written by... Fabian Niceza.

And he discovered his father was the Emperor D'Ken (and his mother was human) in Captain Marvel v2 #3, written by... Fabian Niceza.

The ONLY writer to use this plotline was Fabian. And Adam was his candidate. Until Brubaker came out with this plot.
 
 
The Falcon
13:32 / 05.04.06
There have been others, such as Arlo 'Anti-Matter' Summers in Milligan's last X-Force. He's my favourite.

There was also that fakey X-team in the Kelly/Seagle era, who all had powers similar to their predecessors, can't remember the Summers analogue? Grey King? But they were purely simulacra, iirc.

Oh, and Claremont revealed the brother as *yawn* Gambit in his X-Men: The End series. Anyway, this is all a bit Marvel Mythology Surgery just now.
 
 
Quimper
13:41 / 05.04.06
Toad is actually a central figure of the 198. He's still powered, and more like Ray Park every day.

Here's Marvel's entry on Vulcan
 
 
The Falcon
13:54 / 05.04.06
Hahahaha, check out the directory, two subcategories: Candians and Deceased.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:20 / 25.04.06
Has anyone encountered the recent rumours about Civil War as featured in Lying In The Gutters? Falconer, I bet you have. It strikes me as *exactly* Millar's bag...
 
 
Mario
11:12 / 25.04.06
It seems to me that the very _existence_ of a "Big Bad" in the storyline undercuts what the crossover is about. Rather than "heroes divided on philosophical grounds", it's "heroes divided because of an Evil PlanTM".
 
 
Spaniel
11:37 / 25.04.06
I appreciate Fly's point, but it would seem to run counter to all the press around this event.
 
 
Slim
11:54 / 25.04.06
Vulcan's family history makes me laugh:

Philip Summers (grandfather), Deborah Summers (grandmother), unidentified parents, Scott Summers (Cyclops, brother), Alexander Summers (Havok, brother), Jean Grey-Summers (Phoenix, sister-in-law, deceased), Madelyne Pryor-Summers (ex-sister-in-law, deceased), Nathan Christopher Summers (Cable, nephew), Aliya Jenskot (niece-in-law, deceased), Tyler Dayspring (Genesis, grandnephew, deceased), Stryfe (clone nephew, deceased), Rachel Summers (Marvel Girl, alternate timeline niece)
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
12:09 / 25.04.06
I hardly ever see my alternate timeline niece nowadays.
 
 
Mario
12:20 / 25.04.06
You left out "Adam X, Shi'ar half-brother", and "Remy LeBeau, possible brother from alternate future".

Heck, if you add in all the characters that have been romantically linked, in one universe or another, Civil War starts to look more like Family Feud.
 
 
The Falcon
12:33 / 25.04.06
I don't read LITG anymore. If it's what Boboss said, I think Millar refuted the notion in his Newsarama interview.

Oh, part 2, must've missed that: "You don't have to be a horse to be a vet."
 
 
FinderWolf
15:47 / 25.04.06
Someone asked in the Astonishing X-Men thread 'shouldn't we just call Black Goliath 'Goliath' now?'

They will probably call "Black Goliath" just plain old "Goliath" in Civil War; I agree.

As for why he's involved (which someone asked as well), I think it just continues Marvel's current (and fun) 70s revival. Spider-Woman, Daughters of the Dragon, Shang-Chi, Omega the Unknown (upcoming mini), Ms. Marvel-as-Binary (was that really 70s...? or early 80s), the Brood (as villains in Ms. Marvel's new ongoing title), etc. etc.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
16:41 / 25.04.06
On a sidenote, every mutant power that was lost due to House of M now belong to this guy named Michael over in New Avengers.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
07:15 / 03.05.06
Oh man, don't let me down Millar, don't let me down! Issue one comes out in about 7 hours, and I found a kickass page from issue #1 online, don't worry no story spoilers, but Cap just about to tell SHIELD to eat shit! Yeah Cap!
 
 
FinderWolf
16:51 / 03.05.06
That is rather cool. Looking forward to picking this up, but I might have to wait til tomorrow night!!!! Drat!
 
 
rabideyemovement
20:53 / 03.05.06
That scene with Cap on the Helicarrier was worth the price of the issue alone... I'm impressed so far. This will be much better than that lousy House of M crossover.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
03:13 / 05.05.06
This rocked so hard! Cap rules!!! I'll break it down with spoilers
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New Warriors end up fighting some villians for their reality tv series, fuck up big time, and something like 800 people are killed, many of them children.

The Human Torch gets his ass beat down outside of a club with people calling him a babykiller (they suckerpunched him from behind with a bottle).

The media start talking about the superhero registration act, which they're supposed to vote on in a few weeks time, and SHIELD already has a superhero response team of agents, but are depending on the Avengers to police it, led by Captain America. Cap tells SHIELD to piss off, beats the superhero response team, jumps out of the hellicarrier and onto a moving F-16, has the pilot land it on a football field so it doesn't get damadged AND THEN TAKES THE PILOT OUT FOR A BURGER AND FRIES!!! Cap rules so hard.

Unfortunately Tony Stark gets guilted out by the mother of one of the dead kids. She says Tony's to blame because he's funded the Avengers for years and encouraged anyone with a pair of tights to go out and fight crime. A bunch of the heroes meet up at the Baxter building I think, and Patriot says they should go on strike, but Reed responds in a kind of "Ahhh shut the fuck up jr., let the futurists handle this!". Tony says he thinks the registration act is fine, Reed seems to agree, and Dr. Strange has a problem with it until Mr. Fantastic let's him know that the govt. is willing to compromise with Strange.

The governemnt is really uneasy that Cap has gone underground as this gives the antiregistration guys a figurehead, but Tony says he and his posse will handle Cap.

Issue one rocks so hard! If you're not sure about it pm me, and I'll try to get issue #1 to you to check it out.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
03:53 / 05.05.06
C'mon you cynical fucks, I'll email you the comic!
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
19:13 / 05.05.06
I was invited here yet I see no evidence, or even reference to an example, of Dr. Strange being a dick. I DEMAND SATISFACTION.
 
 
COBRAnomicon!
19:25 / 05.05.06
Well, this incarnation of Dr. Strange looked an awful lot like Ian "Al Swearengen" McShane; Al Swearengen's certainly a dick, so there you go.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
23:28 / 05.05.06
I have very mixed feelings about this.

Millar clearly has his welder's mittens on for much of it, particularly those awful two pages with Johnny Storm getting beaten up by a woefully cliched mob of one-dimensionals. The dialogue in general is pretty bad, actually - lots of putting certain points that Millar feels need to get an airing into the mouths of anybody who's handy, so that it all feels a little too arbitrary. And he OVERDOES the EMPHASIS thing to such an EXTENT that everyone starts to sound like VON MISES.

Other problems: predictably Millar doesn't even bother to emulate the admirable task of making Tony Stark and his position sympathetic that Bendis did in the Illuminati special, instead in the last panel Iron Man looks like he's just itching to try out his pulsar blasters on his good buddy Cap. The "burger and fries" thing would have been good if we'd actually seen it, but instead it's another example of Millar going "Hey, here's an amazing thing that might happen, but I don't know how to write the scene itself so I'll just have someone casually mention it." And the 'checklist' at the end is head-shakingly irritating.

Things I'm ambivalent about: I haven't decided yet whether the Watcher, the 'Things Turn Ugly' caption and the "watch that pottymouth!" line are just goofy enough or plain stupid (I suspect the last one is definitely in the latter category, and it makes me pine for some Brubaker or Bendis script-doctoring).

Then there's: who is in the Daredevil costume? Why is he holding a coin up and looking sinister? Is it just bad writing that makes his dialogue sound so un-Murdochy ("our business"?), or something else? Why does nobody point out that he might help ease tensions between civilians and masks by going back to jail? These may end up being interesting questions or they may not. The last one I suppose could be added to "If Wolverine recently threatened to kill the President then why is he not already a fugitive or under arrest when this story begins?"

I have to admit though, I do dig the central concept and am keen to see some of the fighty fighty fighting go down, especially if it involves the destruction of lots of vehicles with the S.H.I.E.L.D. logo on them. The central action sequence, whilst not as clear or dynamic as a couple of obvious artists could have made it, does demonstrate that one of Millar's strengths is that like Brubaker, he knows how to make Steve Rogers throw that shield. And that scene is a great pay-off to all the stuff that's been building about how S.H.I.E.L.D. is corrupt and the new director doesn't like superheroes and doesn't get on with Captain America in particular - fairly well-worn tropes, but executed nicely here. While lots of Marvel writers and editors have been at pains to stress how reasonable the pro-registration argument is, it's pretty clear that Maria Hill makes a good villain, and that's a relief in a way.

I'm going to stick with this for now, if only to see whether there's a "we must band together again to stop Hulk/Doom/Hate-Monger/Superboy!" cop-out or whether the characters are actually forced to answer for their wack decisions, but as soon as it starts to smell like 'Ultimate War', I'm out.
 
 
Mario
23:37 / 05.05.06
Well, I think the reason for DD acting out-of-character is that Matt Murdock IS still in prison. Don't know who this DD is, not sure I care
 
 
The Falcon
00:19 / 06.05.06
Hate to say it, but Flyboy pretty much aptly summarises everything I thought... yeah. I think I enjoyed Jacky D's review a bit more than the actual book.

However! The Falcon is cool, obvs., and totally against registration which makes me happy. I hope he beats the absolute shit out of Yellowjacket shortly. (Oh noes!! Not Yellowjacket!) And I'm optimistic about loads of interhero square-goes forthcoming, so that's not so bad. And, blah, whatever, the checklist - I am actually quite optimistically anticipating Brubaker running with this in Cap (his House of M ish being about the best thing about House of M) and mmmaybe the New Avengers Disassembled arc with Chaykin doing art on the Cap ish, previews available somewhere, very good. I'm pretty much a shill for Captain America these days. (He does rule so hard.)

What else... oh, I kinda thought the Patriot strike idea was pretty smart, far better than Reed 'police state' Richards's unreasoned dismissal, but evidently it was just brought up to be discarded in a 'see, I thought of that' kinda way.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
00:42 / 06.05.06
predictably Millar doesn't even bother to emulate the admirable task of making Tony Stark and his position sympathetic that Bendis did in the Illuminati special, instead in the last panel Iron Man looks like he's just itching to try out his pulsar blasters on his good buddy Cap.
I'll give you that. It'd be easier to do a "which side are you on" kinda thing if you don't have Iron Man looking like the evil supervillian on the last page (and it doesn't help that Yellowjacket is there too all evil smiley, and Millar's history with that character's Ultimate counterpart).
Then there's: who is in the Daredevil costume? Why is he holding a coin up and looking sinister? Is it just bad writing that makes his dialogue sound so un-Murdochy ("our business"?), or something else? Why does nobody point out that he might help ease tensions between civilians and masks by going back to jail?
Over in Brubaker's title Murdoch is in jail, and there's an imposter Daredevil roaming the streets. We're pretty sure the other heroes know it's a fake, but not entirely sure. Millar might have made this a little clearer (he does do a nice job of introduciing less popular characters in this issue, with the old people calling out their names bits with Marvel Girl, Goliath, Ms Marvel).
And that scene is a great pay-off to all the stuff that's been building about how S.H.I.E.L.D. is corrupt and the new director doesn't like superheroes and doesn't get on with Captain America in particular - fairly well-worn tropes, but executed nicely here.
It's the Jack Bauer power hour!
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
01:51 / 06.05.06
rumor has it there was an argument between Brubaker and Bendis on whether the "new" Daredevil should be outed in Civil War #2 or in Daredevil. Given the word of mouth, I think that Bendis+Miller won the argument since I hear his ID comes out in Civil War 2.

Hm. Wonder if it's Hawkeye :P
 
 
Jack Denfeld
01:56 / 06.05.06
Hawkeye's missing, and so is Iron Fist. Hawkeye's sounding more plausible though, the tough guy speech is a little more Hawkeye, and the playing with a coin is kinda Ultimates Hawkeye, anything as a weapon kinda thing Millar's done.
 
 
Mario
11:19 / 06.05.06
Maybe it's Ronin.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
11:49 / 06.05.06
Well, I was being mostly tongue-in-cheek re: the Hawkeye thing... though Bendis has been pretty clear that when/if he shows up again it won't be as "Hawkeye".

Although, you're right about the coin thing being Ultimate-ish. And not far from MU Hawkeye at least as portrayed in his recent short-lived solo book.

I really think that Daredevil is Alex Luthor.
 
 
The Falcon
13:36 / 06.05.06
 
  

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