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Marvel's 'Civil War'.

 
  

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Mister Six, whom all the girls
19:37 / 16.06.06
Black Goliath?
 
 
Triplets
22:11 / 16.06.06
Mm. Dareseye. Yes.
 
 
Spaniel
22:52 / 16.06.06
Was i the only fuck who actually enjoyed this?
 
 
Jack Denfeld
09:45 / 17.06.06
Naw, I'm loving it.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
11:29 / 17.06.06
The bald guy could well be Deadpool, since him and Cable have been super-buddies for a while now. It'll probably be in Cable and Deadpool #28, with some fourth-wall-breaky jokes.

Also, I'm enjoying this too, much more than House of M, which is still having reprecussions- Son of M only ended a few weeks ago and there are enough plot threads left hanging to knit a sweater.
 
 
rabideyemovement
15:34 / 17.06.06
Bullseye in a DD costume would be a cool sight, but unfortunately Bullseye is currently wearing a Hannibal Lecter costume in Riker's.
 
 
Spaniel
21:18 / 18.06.06
Now that I'm sober I'm going to tackle Alex's post.

Granted CW has its problems, but I don't think ignoring a bunch of dull, inconsistent continuity counts amongst 'em. Who fucking cares whether there's been history between these characters? Up until recently most of them barely had anything approximating a personality. If good stories can be told in the wake of a modern reimagining of their relationships, I say bring it on.

If we want to get down to specific probs, Reed's characterisation inhabited the usual horrible Millar territory and couldn't help but annoy. That said, Reed as a sometime obsessional arsehole does make more than a little sense and should, perhaps, be pursued.
In other news, the episode did feel a little slight, and the presence of so many characters dressed (needlessly) in costume, was a little silly, but that shit can all be put down to editorial necessity rather than yer actual bad writing, methinks.
 
 
FinderWolf
00:47 / 19.06.06
I also felt Reed was too much of a dick, too dismissive of his wife and too into the 'wow! it's fun to side with the gov't against my fellow heroes!' Even a few years ago, Bendis (and even more recently, Brubaker) showed how Reed wanted to testify on Matt Murdock's behalf to get him out of hot water with the gov't over in the DD monthly title.

Editor Tom Breevort even mentioned in the recent Newsarama interview that he told Millar he thought Reed came off too cold in that scene. So it ain't just us.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
01:27 / 19.06.06
I have problems with how Reed and Tony are being portrayed. Because they're coming off as total assholes, and I don't think that it fits their personalities at all.

Reed adores Sue. They have the model Marvel Universe marriage, and I just can't see Reed blowing her off like that. In my opinion, Reed Richards would take anything his wife suggested very seriously indeed.

I also can't see Tony planning to beat up Captain America. The guy is one of his best friends, and they're the heart and soul of The Avengers. Whether Tony agrees with Steve or not, he wouldn't be all right with SHIELD hunting the man down like a dog. In my mind, you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who Tony Stark respects more than Cap. In fact, Tony as the lynchpin of this whole civil war thing seems completely out of character for him. Millar seems to be portraying him as a real bad guy, which is ridiculous. We had the token "am I doing the right thing" moment, but fucking Magneto has moments like that. Stark is a hero, and Millar is writing him as anything but. Maybe Tony just needs to start drinking again. A couple martinis might loosen him up.

Despite that, it's not a bad read on the surface, and I'm looking forward to seeing Cap kick the shit out of more SHIELD agents. If I turn a blind eye to the hamfisted and inaccurate characterization, it's big, dumb fun. I can't wait until someone tries to take Wolverine in.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:28 / 19.06.06
>> We had the token "am I doing the right thing" moment, but fucking Magneto has moments like that.

Well, yeah...but I was at least very glad to see this moment be included/shown. It suddenly humanized Tony a little bit more.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:29 / 19.06.06
>> Whether Tony agrees with Steve or not, he wouldn't be all right with SHIELD hunting the man down like a dog.

I second that emotion.
 
 
tickspeak
14:36 / 19.06.06
I was skeptical as all hell about this book but I have to say, those last couple pages gave me geek chills. And, despite the fact that it's a serious continuity error with this month's Amazing AND Front Line, I was very glad to see Peter wearing the classic duds at the press conference. It just had more impact.

And it's good to see Speedball's still alive even if he's just gonna get shit on for the next six months. You can't keep the Masked Marvel down!
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
19:42 / 19.06.06
Hmmm for all the books faults I really can see Tony spoiling to put a beatdown on Cap. Mind you I've never been much of an Iron Man reader and most of my idea of the relationship between the two comes from the Operation: Galactic Storm period, which featured a Cap and Tony who seemed to pretty much despise each other. With rgards to the book in general Millar is still doing a much better job of putting across the Anti argument, and I think that Frontline is way, way better if anyone fancies a balanced look at the two sides. Which I guess shows that Jenkins is much better than Millar at writting characters who don't agree with him, since I'm sure the first thing I actually remember reading by him was an on the ledge column criticisng a UK law increasing police powers - either that or he's become a good deal more conservative since then.
 
 
rabideyemovement
02:35 / 20.06.06
Here's to hoping the Speedball that comes out of this story is a much more likeable character than in the past... You don't throw away a perfectly good Ditko creation.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
06:57 / 20.06.06
Speedball was a perfectly likeable character until Millar wrote him, as he writes so many characters, as a sneering dickhead. I'm waiting for this whole boring situation to blow over.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:28 / 20.06.06
I think that Frontline is way, way better if anyone fancies a balanced look at the two sides.

Did we read the same Frontline #1? Because mine led with a story in which the anti-registration journalist is a spunky idealist, whilst the pro-registration journalist is not actually even in favour of it at all, he just has to supply a certain kind of story to fit the demands of his cynical, headline-chasing paper. And it had a (really quite as awful as it sounds) piece in the back that seemed to compare the internment of American citizens of Japanese extraction during World War II with the possible fate of unregistered superheroes...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:06 / 20.06.06
The internement of Japanese Americans is a popular what-have-we-become trope, I think - Peter David used it in Young Justice...

I'm sort of sort of enjoying this, but it is a) utterly ludicrous and b) hopelessly out of character. Millar writing Captain America just seems to be demonstrating that he sees his Ultimate version as the core version - hence throwing normal humans out into traffic is OK as long as it is done in a pleasingly cinematic fashion. I think it would have been nice if the resistance had been a bit more grass-roots, as well - membership notwithstanding, they are still very well-equipped and well-funded for plucky rebels.
 
 
sn00p
10:31 / 20.06.06
Is nobody else on Tony's side?
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
11:44 / 20.06.06
I think Tony is trying to do the impossible with the best of intentions. I'm not sure if it was in CW#1 or not but he tells Peter that SOMEONE will be siding with the bill so it might as well be him. I think he's trying his best to be the figurehead of the bill so that he can steer it in the best or least harmful direction. But it doesn't seem to be going that way.

By the by... anyone flip through the new issue of New Avengers? If you think Chuck Austen fucked up Xorn, you should see what Bendis did... hoo boy.
 
 
Evil Scientist
12:48 / 20.06.06
Gah! Thunderbolts spoilers! MY EYES!

Just kidding, I'm holding off for the collected Civil War trades anyway so any spoiler exposure is my own damn fault for being a cheap bastard).

Seriously though, having just read the New Thunderbolts trade where they stomp (at some points literally) all over the Avengers you can see the buildup to them being used as hero-hunters.

Still gobsmacked that anyone would think Zemo's not going to have his own agenda in all of this.
Supervillain army eh? Has Zemo referred to it as a "society" yet?
 
 
FinderWolf
15:00 / 20.06.06
>> The bald guy could well be Deadpool, since him and Cable have been super-buddies for a while now.

Probably Deadpool and not Goliath [formerly known as Black Goliath], since G. has hair, as shown in issue 1.

Yeah, I was surprised by Capt. America just throwing the solider out into traffic too - the guy has armor on, but still...a bit mean-spirited and careless of cap, I agree.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:03 / 20.06.06
>> By the by... anyone flip through the new issue of New Avengers? If you think Chuck Austen fucked up Xorn, you should see what Bendis did... hoo boy.

You mean the new issue that's coming out tomorrow (that some may have seen a preview issue for)? Cause I don't remember Xorn being in last month's ish of NA.
 
 
Spaniel
15:54 / 20.06.06
As long as the character I'm reading bears a close family resemblence (to
borrow a term from Wittgenstein) to the same character historically*,
they're being written well, and there's an attempt to maintain the illusion
of continuity**, I'm usually kept happy.

I actually like the idea of flawed obsessional Reed (1234 anyone?) who is
capable of ignoring his family (the FF), even endangering them, if something
punches his buttons. Not because he loves his work more than them, but
because he is blinded by his own enthusiasms. That's the price he pays for his epic genius. IMO, that's a character with a lot of dramatic potential.

In Tony's case we have Millar riffing on Ellis's utopian reading of the
character. A man convinced that world is changing whether he likes it or
not, but equally convinced that, given the right tools, he can sculpt that
change to fit his vision of a better world. As for going up against Cap,
firstly it's not clear that he intends to do that, at least it's not clear
that he intends to do that with his fists. Secondly, history is littered
with examples of old relationships torn asunder by ideals.

Now, that said, I like some of the characterisation thus far (I say "some" because sociopath Cap also has me worried), whether I'll continue to like it is another question entirely. Millar being Millar, I suspect he won't know where to draw the line with any of the major players, and they'll all come out stinking of shit. Which would be a shame, because I think there's some real fun to be had here.


*Bear in mind I am of the opinion that the personalities of ongoing
characters are better viewed as heterogenous resource pools than homogenous
entities. For example, you have Morrison's take on Reed, and Straswooski's
take, and Kirby's take, etc...


**I don't particularly mind if it's a half hearted attempt if the
story is good enough to justify treading on history's toes
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
17:02 / 20.06.06
RE: Cap throwing the guy into traffic.

The way I look at it it is fairly simillar to the way he treated footsoldiers during WWII. Your average German army officer wasn't the one making policy about taking over the world and wiping people out, but they were fighting for something Cap was against, so sometimes he might topple a building on them.

The driver of the van was not only working for the government Cap has already decided is evil (or at least making evil decisions) but was mouthing off about how glad he was to be doing the work. I guess it just didn't seem as out of character to me, especially after he beat the crap out of the shield guys in issue one. I am willing to bet that in full body armor I would rather get shoved out of a moving van into traffic if my other shoice is Captain America punching me in the face.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
18:22 / 20.06.06
Did we read the same Frontline #1? Because mine led with a story in which the anti-registration journalist is a spunky idealist, whilst the pro-registration journalist is not actually even in favour of it at all, he just has to supply a certain kind of story to fit the demands of his cynical, headline-chasing paper. And it had a (really quite as awful as it sounds) piece in the back that seemed to compare the internment of American citizens of Japanese extraction during World War II with the possible fate of unregistered superheroes...

As far as the final piece goes I totally agree, with the slight modifier that it might even be a tad more awful than it sounds. I've more or less blotted it out as being a festering sore that would ruin a comic book I otherwise enjoyed if I thought about it to much.

The point on which maybe my reading differs is on the 'pro' journalist. I agree that he doesn't actually support the actor Jonah, but he doesn't actually oppose it either. I thought he was portrayed as a guy who could see some fairly strong arguments on either side and who was in the process of trying to figure out where he stood on the act and that (in addition to Tony seeming a good deal less evil) is why I felt this did better than the main title of getting me to think about both sides. The main title is thus far pretty lacking in characters who haven't gone pretty much to one extreme or the other, without any outward sign of overmuch deliberation on the issue.
 
 
Spaniel
14:44 / 21.06.06
The thing is, as whatisface has pointed out over on the x-axis, CW isn't really about civil liberties, it's about REALITY vs comic conventions, which makes the anti-argument a little hard to make. I mean, IRL nobody in their right mind would agree to sanction a bunch of superpowered vigilantes. Ever
 
 
The Falcon
16:32 / 22.06.06
>> By the by... anyone flip through the new issue of New Avengers? If you think Chuck Austen fucked up Xorn, you should see what Bendis did... hoo boy.

You mean the new issue that's coming out tomorrow (that some may have seen a preview issue for)? Cause I don't remember Xorn being in last month's ish of NA.


Apparently, Xorn is

SPOILERS

The Collective? I stopped reading NA, but am enjoying from afar the utterly enormous hash Marvel is making of a dead character who never existed in the first place.

I'm definitely also liking Civil War now, yeah; need to collect some thoughts about it, but it's getting fun.
 
 
Quimper
17:51 / 24.06.06
Thought this was interesting, from Joe Q's Fridays on Newsarama:

"You should be seeing more of Clint (Barton) by years’ end, you never know where he’s been but I bet he’s been having a DEVIL of a time."

Hmmm...DARE I venture a guess? Cool stuff.
 
 
rabideyemovement
15:30 / 25.06.06
I knew it!
It'll be good to have Hawkeye back. Now maybe they can turn him into the same badass Barton on the Ultimates team.

I read a September solicit for Wolverine: Civil War. After tracking down Nitro for causing the Stamford Disaster, Wolvie investigates Damage Control and whether or not they created the disaster.

Now that could be VERY interesting reading!
My mind imagines a Hydra group so bent on taking down America's superheroes, that it would engineer an attack just to force the hand on the Registration Act. You know, Gyrich has been manipulated by Hydra before, and the Thunderbolts were square in the middle of that.
 
 
rabideyemovement
14:43 / 01.07.06
So did anyone read this past week's slew of Civil War books? I think five of them came out... but the most interesting was Wolverine. It seems that certain people, including Iron Man, don't want him to find Nitro.
I just wandering if any of you have theories on who the man in the limo was?
 
 
Mario
18:18 / 01.07.06
There is a rumor floating around that the big bad in this crossover has the initials HM...
 
 
rabideyemovement
18:23 / 02.07.06
I keep going back to Gyrich and Hydra. Zemo has some sort of plan here. I don't know what he's doing with all those villains he keeps locked up... but the Thunderbolts have the chance to enlist them as hero-hunters I imagine...

So this issue Iron Man tried to intervene in Wolvie's search for Nitro, next issue it's the SubMariner... Coincidence that two members of the "Illuminati" don't want Logan to capture Nitro? That's the intriguing part. Is Iron Man being manipulated? The only person he ever is shown answering to is the President (except for in his own book where the Extremis is controlling him via laptop-- i have trouble correllating the continuity in the Iron Man books and NA, since Nick Fury's still running around in his book).
 
 
Mario
18:43 / 02.07.06
As I understand it, any comic with Fury running around openly as part of SHIELD is a really good LMD.
 
 
rabideyemovement
19:39 / 02.07.06
What could the initials H.M. stand for?
Hate-Monger?
That's all I can think of... I don't even remember the last time we saw him in a book. A long while. As I recall he could switch his consciousness into other bodies.
Gasp! What if Hate-Monger took over the POTUS?

hmmm... there is an awful lot of Hate being Monged about in Civil War.
 
 
The Falcon
19:40 / 02.07.06
There is a rumor floating around that the big bad in this crossover has the initials HM...

Yeah, I've heard this rumour and, to put not too fine a point on it, it sounds like it was cooked up by massively stupid fanboys. Not one to necessarily rule Millar out of using then.

Isn't said villains real identity...

S

P

O

I

L

E

N



S

I

E

Hitler?
 
  

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