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Underground > Comic Books >

Infinite Crisis

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20:19 / 14.11.05

Oh, and I really don't want Alexander Luthor to turn out to be evil too. I always liked the idea of a 'good' Luthor in the alternate universe...

20:37 / 14.11.05

On worldviews:

Good Luthors are always bad Luthors are always good Luthors. S'Like Blind Chessman. See Red Son, see Morrison's Earth 2.

And the only Bad Thing is if Ye Olde Superman obliterates every woldview other than his own. Just cause your story's a happy one doesn't mean the whole universe should be. Bastard.

The more I think on it, the more I think a retemplated DCU, based on Earth 2, wouldn't be so bad. It's like everybody wins. Regardless of how clean the base is, the grim and grime gets in. One year later, we KNOW Superman will never be that old, and that Lois will never die, and Diana will be made again.

20:58 / 14.11.05

FinderWolf: "Superman only pawn in... bigger game."
From the Levits JSA announcement earlier in the thread.

Like Mongo, he is.

10:05 / 15.11.05

I'm not sure that image is evidence that our guy loses. Surely it's just a sensationalistic cover.

10:06 / 15.11.05

Finder, I didn't get the punching a horse comment either.

A

13:06 / 15.11.05

Ah, I just chose to view it as a picture of Superman punching a horse (well, being about to punch one, which is nearly the same thing). For some reason, I had very recently decided that the idea of people punching horses was inexplicably hilarious, and then I saw that picture. It was really all just too exciting.

15:35 / 15.11.05

News from a DC event in Candada, from a recent Newsarama article:

Each issue of 52* will contain 20 pages of stories with back-ups. Issues #2-#11 will feature a 10-part “History of the DCU” story. As mentioned before, the weekly series will tie-into seasons and holidays and will see six stories running throughout the run.

The maximum cover price the weekly series will be is $2.99. It will launch in the second week of May, and will be the chance for some minor characters to shine.

Hawkman changes its title to Hawkgirl with issue #50 as a part of the publisher’s “One Year Later…” event. The series will also be getting a creative team change, with Walt Simonson coming on board as writer and Howard Chaykin joining as penciler (marking the first return of both to mainstream, ongoing DCU work in years – and the first time in years that the two former studio mates will be working together).

Asked how edgy the series would be, it was stated that the Hawkgirl series may be stronger than some of the softer DCU titles, but will be a part of the DC Universe.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

15:51 / 15.11.05

... well... I'll be saving lots of money next year, I guess.

miss wonderstarr

20:18 / 15.11.05

Asked how edgy the series would be, it was stated that the Hawkgirl series may be stronger than some of the softer DCU titles, but will be a part of the DC Universe.

Jesus it's lucky I don't go to any of these press conferences, because I'd be throwing things at the panel. If I even hear anyone say the word "edgy" in that context again I think I'm going to porcupine myself with kitchen knives.

20:55 / 15.11.05

There was a Newsarama commenter who sardonically asked if the follow-up question was "How in-your-face will HAWKGIRL be?" I rather liked that.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

21:06 / 15.11.05

Well, considering Hawkman is pretty much the most violent comic book I've ever read, it's a valid question. They spend most of the time beating peoples' faces in with their maces. And Palmiotti and Grey seem to constantly remind Bennet to make sure he gets the maximum amount of sheer face pummelry per panel. I'm no Joe Pacifist but there have been plenty of Hawkman issues that have rendered me pretty unsettled.

(Cue The Obligatory: "Possibly because they're so lousy?")

miss wonderstarr

21:52 / 15.11.05

It's just "edgy" that makes me edgy, in a bad way. It's even worse than "dark" as an adjective to describe comics. Or bands. Or films.

Matthew Fluxington

00:17 / 16.11.05

So am I wrong in thinking that the main motivation for replacing Hawkman with Hawkgirl is that she's on the Justice League animated series, and he's not?

If so, GOOD CALL!

00:23 / 16.11.05

And my question to this announcement is: "Is it Shayera?"

Cause in DCU, Isn't she HawkWOMAN?

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

01:05 / 16.11.05

I'd like them to come up with an excuse to import the Hawkwoman from Davis's THE NAIL. I liked her uniform and her personality quite a lot, and I've always preferred the Hawkgirls and Hawkwomen to the men.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

11:47 / 16.11.05

Doesn't reading Davis' the Nail make you want to read JLA comics?

Just hold onto that feeling... but don't act on it.

His version of Hawkgirl was aces. Though I totally agree with the take on violence in Hawkman being through the roof (even though that was always part of the comic, seeing Katar literally torn to pieces was a bit extreme), I'm just not one for the Chaykin/Simonson take... but I can always be proven wrong I suppose. I wager that both artists would cringe at the thought of DC using the word 'edgy' to describe their work, though.

12:02 / 16.11.05

'They spend most of the time beating peoples' faces in with their maces.'

as they're about to smash someone in, do they ever say the line 'Face - Meet Mace!' that'd be rad

12:49 / 16.11.05

What would happen if they were somewhere between the Moon and the Earth and then decided to see who could hit a badguy quicker?

Why then they'd have a Face-Mace-Race...in Space!

I'm sorry, I'll get my coat.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

14:15 / 16.11.05

Actually, I'm thinking they might have said exactly that, or perhaps it's just so perfect that I've retrofitted it in my head.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:38 / 16.11.05

Mister Six: Doesn't reading Davis' the Nail make you want to read JLA comics? Just hold onto that feeling... but don't act on it.

Yuh. It makes me want to find old JLoA comics, but the only ones they seem to have at the shop are the awful Gerry Conway ones. The Nail was sweet, but Another Nail was fairly incomprehensible, despite the beauty. I liked that Davis's Hawkwoman was competent and police-trained, but grieving for her lost love and quick to anger. Her uniform was of a better design than more recent canon incarnations, and held onto the idea that the Hawks were cops. Cops from space. Her interaction with Aquaman was fascinating.

On the other, on-topic hand, I can't be bothered with IC. I'm confused - if they're tired of all the grim and gritty, why didn't they just stop writing it, or started writing more alternatives to go along with it? Apparently they have to overdo, market, and sell their mistakes too...

Mister Six, whom all the girls

18:47 / 16.11.05

What weirds me out are the stories that glorify ages past as DC seemingly destroys said era, like the 'I Can't Believe It's Not The JLA' story while Blue Beetle resurfaces in comics only to take a bullet in the head and this; Gail Simone and Jose Garcia Lopez tell a 'classic' JLA story while Wonder Woman turns murderer and quite possibly gets her series cancelled.

20:16 / 16.11.05

It won't be Shayera, at least until they resurrect her, she bit the big one in the Rann-Thanagar War.

I hate that I know that. Only a little, though.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

19:26 / 17.11.05

Spoiler??

Does anyone care???

WONDER WOMAN #226
Written by Greg Rucka
Art by Cliff Richards & Ray Snyder
Cover by J.G. Jones
Astonishing final issue! With the universe in turmoil, Diana prepares to face her ultimate challenge. Looking back on her relationship with Superman from the way it began to its recent turmoil, will she find a way to rebuild what she's lost? Final issue.

END
Spoiler

... but I doubt this will shake up anyone's world.

19:31 / 17.11.05

There is a rumor, reported by Rich Johnston, that the new WW monthly (starting from issue 1) will feature Donna Troy as the new Wonder Woman...but they are just rumors of course, at present. (Johnston also names O.C. and Young Avengers scribe Alan Heinberg as the writer of this new monthly title)

Mister Six, whom all the girls

19:45 / 17.11.05

Makes perfect sense to me.

I mean why else go through all the trouble to bring back Donna Troy? She has no place in any title (Outsiders or Titans), but making her the new WW makes sense... Seeing as how she is so closely connected to the multiverse she STILL has no clear backstory.

Maybe she'll be merged into Diana's origin through 8C?

13:52 / 18.11.05

There was also talk that she would join The Outsiders as a full-time member after 8C. Or maybe join the Teen Titans as one of the older 'mentor' members a la Cyborg or Starfire.

There was also talk in some of the DCU superhero books (particularly the Return of Donna Troy miniseries, no surprise there) that Donna was destined to play a huge heroic role in 8C and that's why the Coluans wanted her dead, to prevent her from saving everyone.

If she becomes the new WW, then I guess DC will do the 'have Diana back as WW by 2007 when the Joss Whedon movie comes out' thing...

14:39 / 18.11.05

Donna is now exactly what we all wanted Jean Grey to be back in the nineties. She's a cosmic level superheroine that lives in a tesseract. Goddess level superheroines are unusable. Grant killed Phoenix.

Making her the new Wonder Woman would neglect a big portion of the Wonder Woman role in the DCU. But that opens a good discussion. Batman suggests that the core of Superman's character is to be an example. Batman's is about trying to everything he can. What is Wonder Woman's role? To kill adversaries? To "force" peace? To bring truth?

But why not have different levels of Wonder Women? Diana to handle Earth-based crises and ambassadorial duties = Aquaman. Donna to handle JLA cosmic intergalactic foriegn policy = Green Lantern. Artemis for Black Ops = Outsiders. Cassandra for mythological Immateria quests = ?.

rabideyemovement

14:59 / 18.11.05

Maybe the DC editors have decided to give the big guys a vacation for a bit and let the sidekicks fill in for a change. They've spent alot of the past year building up the characters of Superboy, Supergirl, Donna Troy, Nightwing... and breaking down the resolve of their adult counterparts. I wouldn't hold it against Bats or Supes if they wanted some time off. Fighting crime is hard work.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

15:25 / 18.11.05

52 weeks off?

08:17 / 19.11.05

Goddess level superheroines are unusable.

You do remember Grant's take on the JLA, don't you?
Do you mean that characters who are too powerful lack dramatic potential?

17:04 / 19.11.05

So Chad, are you suggesting some sort of Wonder Force? They can wear matching uniforms with shoulder pads, and hang around in a military base waiting for calls to come up on their giant screen from a cigar chomping general. Let's just hope they don't suffer from Saliva Strand Syndrome.

17:14 / 19.11.05

I was thinking more Birds of Prey style, but with a real oracle. I fear for the star-spangled ladies though. How do you solve a problem like Diana?

Phex: Dorset Doom

18:21 / 19.11.05

Is Donna Troy really 'goddess level' though, 'cos it seems to me she can't really do much that regular Wonder Woman can't, apart from fly around in the Death Star as designed by M.C Escher.

Besides from Wonder Woman's run ending, the following are also on the chopping block according to Dan Didio: "Plastic Man with #20, Flash with #230, Superman #226 is the last issue for that numbering, Wonder Woman #226 is the last issue of that run, Gotham Knights #74, Gotham Central #40, JLA #125, and Batgirl #73."

Now, I can see the logic behind dropping Gotham Knights, as there's already too many Batman books out there, and I can see how they'll reboot Wonder Woman when Donna Troy takes up the tiara and hotpants (it's a 'when' not an 'if' imho), and I can also see how Supes may have to reassert himself as a hero after much soul-searching in 52*. Obviously the JLA needs to be restarted after everything that's happened, but why Gotham Central and why Batgirl? G.C is an Eisner award winner, iirc, and has been pretty consistently praised for its writing, Batgirl has had some good issues, particularly lately, and there's really no reason that I can see to get rid of her (maybe Dick becomes Batman and Cassandra takes over as Nightwing?).

18:26 / 19.11.05

GC has essentially lost two-thirds of what made it in the shape of Brubaker and Lark; presumably they also are two-thirds of the reason it was nominated. It seems insensible to keep running a low-selling series when most its driving force can no longer contribute.

18:47 / 19.11.05

The Superman thing isn't a relaunch so much as a renaming. And there have been rumors of a Batwoman comic, possibly starring Barbara Gordon (although it would amuse me if it was actually Lady Shiva)

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