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Infinite Crisis

 
  

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FinderWolf
13:00 / 18.10.05
Seeing as Ollie Queen just accused Batman of blowing up the Watchtower in the recent issue of JLA (which isn't all that good so don't go rushing out to get it or anything), this upcoming solicit seems interesting --

>> JLA #124
Written by Bob Harras
Art by Tom Derenick & Dan Green
Cover by Daniel Acuña
>> “World Without a Justice League” Part 5 of 6! In the wake of Day of Vengeance, the Seven Deadly Sins have been unleashed upon the world and Envy has found his way to Gotham City — just in time to influence Green Arrow! But when jealousy and rage infect Oliver Queen’s mind, he loses focus on stopping The Key and saving Dawn, and turns his energies on an even deadlier foe: Batman!

So first we have this notion that the heroes are acting 'darker' due to some outside force, like the JLA/Avengers crossover where the tension between frequencies of their respective universe put them on edge and had Capt. America calling Supes & the JL 'jackbooted stormtroopers', and now we have an explanation for Ollie's bizarre outburst in the recent JLA issue.
 
 
Henningjohnathan
14:41 / 18.10.05
Treat it all as a theatre of the absurd, and don't spend money on any of it, and don't worry about it either - that's my advice.
And that is good advice, Mr. Shaftoe's Dark Side.

Thanks.
 
 
makeitbleed
18:55 / 18.10.05
This is kinda off topic, apologies. But I wasn't really sure where else to put it or where to find an audience that may be interested.

I did a search for an Invisibles related topic on Barbelith and found a chat transcript with Grant. Where it says this:

hey grant! I've followed your work since animalman #1! you're the best,man...even better than gardner fox...: ) but what i really wanna see is a 'sunshine superman' mini-series... he's there in hypertime waiting to be seen again... and since he thought he'd NEVER be seen again..only YOU can prove him wrong!
excelsior!

sawdust - okay. It's a deal. If Mark Waid and I get arounmd to doing this 'Hypercrisis' thing we've talked about for 2001, I promise you will see the long-awaited return of Sunshine Superman. You will also find out what Hypertime
really is - alternate realities are only the beginning.

Here's the link:
http://www.barbelith.com/bomb/inte_next.htm

Just thought it was interesting how ideas never die, they just wait.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:17 / 18.10.05
DC have said that they aren't touching Hypertime with a ten foot pole, and they've been saying this long before they started lying about stuff to try and drum up interest for Infinite Crisis. Doesn't mean they definitely aren't doing a Hypertime story, but maybe just a dull regular story...

Personally I reckon that the whole DC Universe of the last twenty years will be squidged away into whiteness with a voice going "The first one was too silly, The second one too grim, but if I keep trying I'll get a universe that's ju-ust right!"
 
 
Alex's Grandma
21:48 / 18.10.05
This series, so far, has filled me with a numbing sense of almost total despair.
 
 
Triplets
22:29 / 18.10.05
an even deadlier foe: Batman!

Batman? Deadly?

At best there'll be twenty pages of fite!, eighty-four pages of adverts and two pages where Bats and Arrow see the error of their differences and both have a good hug and cry. Over Bat-cocoa.
 
 
matsya
06:47 / 20.10.05
Back to the "we can save them all, even her" thing - since this all seems to be harking back to the original Crisis, might they not be talking about Supergirl?

And, incidentally, what IS the deep-and-meaningfull reason for the cleavage-window in Power Girl's costume? Does it also explain her penchant in the 80s for porno waxing and ridiculously high-cut leotards?
 
 
LDones
07:07 / 20.10.05
Geoff-Exclamation-Point-Johns-Exclamation-Point decided that PowerGirl's cleavage portal was the result of her not knowing what to wear as a symbol on her costume, and a reminder that she was ever still hoping to find her place in the world and 'seal the hole'. The showing of her mammary glands seemingly being largely incidental.

The sound of many heads being shaken can echo round the world.
 
 
quinine92001
01:52 / 27.10.05
Before I heard about all of the hype of Powergirl being "saved", my first thought was that maybe who AlexanderLuthor/Superboy/Whoever was talking about saving to old time Supes actually was Wonder Woman. MAybe from their vantage point outside but in between the DC universe and the reader they saw a possible situation where Wonder Woman's neck snapping and warior instinct actually gets her killed. But I guess he really just wants to save his cousin Supergirl(Powergirl?).
 
 
diz
02:04 / 27.10.05
Geoff-Exclamation-Point-Johns-Exclamation-Point decided that PowerGirl's cleavage portal was the result of her not knowing what to wear as a symbol on her costume, and a reminder that she was ever still hoping to find her place in the world and 'seal the hole'.

Ho. Ly. Shit.

That may be the funniest comics-related thing I've ever read.

"I've got my tits hanging out because I'm just waiting for someone to come along and mark me with their symbol and fill my hole."

Riiiiight.
 
 
This Sunday
03:10 / 27.10.05
Wasn't there a gag in 'Dark Knight Strikes Again' regarding chest-logos? Not just the S-shield ass-shot, but...? I'd register those trademarks or something similarly strained-in-its-innuendo-ness?
 
 
matsya
10:52 / 27.10.05
"I've got my tits hanging out because I'm just waiting for someone to come along and mark me with their symbol and fill my hole."

To be honest, that's a wee bit of a stretch - sounds like she's looking for her own symbol, not someone else's. And it was "seal", not "fill". The metaphor there would be the redaction of the loss of virginity, perhaps - a quest for her lost hymen? Or do I go too far? I think I might. Ah, well. Is 'seal the hole' a direct quote?

Still funny, though. But not so surprising in an artform that gave us the secret origin of wonder woman's sandals and turned a change of ink-colour-availability into an entire psychological subplot.
 
 
FinderWolf
06:30 / 29.10.05
Yeah, Johns' attempt to give a story/characer reason for the cleavage-displaying oval on her chest was rather silly.... but it's worth noting that previously (i.e. the 70s and 80s), the oval used to be drawn higher up on her chest (i.e., just below the collarbone or just on it) so as not to be the blatant cleavage-festival that Amanda Conner and Jim Lee (on his cover of IC #2) are showing now.

It is a fun idea that she and Psycho Pirate are the only remanants of the pre-Crisis universe, tho'...
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
15:14 / 30.10.05
There's a boob peephole because she was designed by Wally Wood, the horniest man in comics.

The end.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
15:31 / 30.10.05
I really don't get why you guys are talking so much about this series and even buying it if you are.

I'm not pointing the finger cuz I love to rant about what I dislike but I'll say it again... these comics have been like this for at least the past two years and this is a grand explosion of it all. DC and the comic shops I suppose ARE marketing it as THE comic to buy... but it ain't. Really. There are many far better comics for someone not into this, like Johnny Raygun or even the new Astro City. Just suggestions to eleviate the astronomical pain 99% of you seem to be putting yourself through.

It reminds me of taking my dad to see a Star Wars film and he walked out annoyed. I asked him what the problem was and he eventually admitted, "Well... it's all this 'May the Force be with you' and the swords and ships and shit."

So... it bothered him because it was Star Wars.

This Infinite Crisis stuff is what it is and everything you see wrong with it is exactly what appeals to the reader who likes it (usually). The creators are not making mistakes, it's all been thought out... I know there's one or two 'lithers who are wuth me on the reading 90% of all DC comics and they may or may not agree, but that's my two cents.

Maybe that walk/cake thing is in order for all of us, eh?

I know I'd love some cake.
 
 
Benny the Ball
18:00 / 30.10.05
I actually don't mind the series too much. I liked IC at the start, but it collapsed and ended up being awful - Omac was okay, and Villians United was excellent. But infinity Crisis issue one wasn't too bad.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
19:06 / 30.10.05
Six, I don't understand what you're saying but I will defend to the death you're right to say it.

Maybe it was the misspelled "wuth"? Was that supposed to be "with" in that you are among the one or two lithers who have been following DC for a while (me being one of the others, I'm sure).

The thing about comics is that, inevitably, if something is big enough, it will tend to get bought regardless of whether or not people like it or are even interested, especially a first issue. I think it's less of a phenomenon here, where many people have learned the secret ability of self-restraint, but among the comic readerbase in general, big items tend to get picked up. As much as it's be nice if they spent their money on the "better things" you've cited, well, pipe dreams.

Like, The Dark Tower comics. I'd wager that the only people who won't be buying are the ones who have already come out against it (for whatever freakish, misanthropic reason). Every single other person who's ever bought a comic, and many who never have, will pick it up.

That's just how the industry works. Who among us does not have ASBARTBW #1?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
19:49 / 30.10.05
I fucking don't!

You paint a very depressing picture of the world.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
19:52 / 30.10.05
And I haven't "come out againt" the Dark Tower comics, because I don't care but was trying to respect the feelings of the people who do, but Jesus fuck, most of the people I know who read comics won't be buying it because they have better fucking taste!
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
20:49 / 30.10.05
I was actually referring more to the tone of the Newsarama boards. Most people around here don't really front on the gloom and doom tip. Pretty much all of my comments referred to that sort of reader and I thought I was pretty clear in my deliniation between that kind of environment and this one (something along the lines of "most people around here aren't" something something).

And, by and large, the comics readership landscape is a brutally depressing place. Hadn't you noticed?

I'm sure the people you know who read comics won't be reading it, just as I'm sure that the people I know who've read The Dark Tower will. I'm also sure that the people you know who read comics are probably very much unlike the great unwashed masses who climb the stairs with me at 10 AM every Wednesday Morning into the bright and sunny environs of my Midtown Manhattan LCS.

It's a simple fact that I've come to grips with. It doesn't stop me from reading stuff on both ends of the spectrum, nor has it stopped me from making my own comics and throwing them into the very deep well that is this medium and being pretty much the only one who hears the splash. Does that keep me from accepting deep down that my comics, irregardless of my microscopic readership, are fucking awesome? Shit, no. Does it keep me from hoping that someday, whoopee, I'm going to be buying houses and shit with the loads of money I'm sure to be raking in simply by making quality comics in a medium choking on its own tongue? Yes. Does it keep me from going up those stairs every week to pick up the stack of comics that I'm legitimately interested in reading, because even if only 20% of mainstream comics being produced these days are good (let me rephrase that immediately as "up my alley"), shit, that's still like 35 or 40 books. No, it does not.

Any cursory glance at other message boards will certainly tell you that as much as this approach might appear strange and self-flagellating, there are much much more delusional states of fandom out there and, by and large, they are the norm. Chris Claremont is still in the Diamond Top Ten. That's the one sentence that explains everything about the industry today.

What do I really want out of these kinds of comics? I want what Dave wants. And there still tend to be a few new ones every week.
 
 
matsya
22:26 / 30.10.05
Well, I had a look at the actual comic this thread is about, over the weekend, and I know it's been said before, but this whole "slaughter the dumb, less popular characters" is depressing. Bizarro pounding The Human Bomb to pulp, Deathstroke skewering Phantom Lady and Condor, back to Blue Beetle's headshot and even that alternate-future Superman snapping alternate-future Wonder Woman's neck in glorious splash-page colour... ick. And also - why? What purpose is served? A brief shockola and that's it.

I know, I know, it's all been said before, but you know, I STILL don't get it.

I'll take time-travel and flying apes over this shit any day.
 
 
D Terminator XXXIII
00:11 / 31.10.05
I fucking don't!

You're missing out. I could be reading it the wrong way though and perhaps I should be reacting to the goddamn comic more literally instead of enjoying it as a simultaneous critique and celebration of the goddamn Batman mythos.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
01:50 / 31.10.05
Are you sure that you're not talking about Michael Allred's issue of SOLO?
 
 
The Natural Way
07:26 / 31.10.05
I don't have a "freakish, misanthropic reason" for not wanting to but the Dark Tower stuff, I'm just not a big King fan and feel unsure as to whether he could actually write comics, anyway. Also, the marvel style sucks as a scripting method.
 
 
D Terminator XXXIII
09:07 / 31.10.05
Are you sure that you're not talking about Michael Allred's issue of SOLO?

100.

And given the reaction DK2 had here, I'm not at all surprised that it attracts so many detractors - I regard Miller's recent DC work as his Coen Brothers phase, back when very few knew how to conclusively react to their movies, i.e.: "comedy at whose expense?"
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
10:36 / 31.10.05
Very, very funny take on his work.

Whatever gets you through the night, man.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
14:07 / 31.10.05
And I haven't "come out againt" the Dark Tower comics, because I don't care but was trying to respect the feelings of the people who do, but Jesus fuck, most of the people I know who read comics won't be buying it because they have better fucking taste!

Huh?

How do you know it's below your "better taste"? The thing isn't even out yet.
 
 
The Falcon
14:39 / 31.10.05
It's a subjective judgment, Keith. I won't be buying it because I don't really like King.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
14:44 / 31.10.05
ah, i see. King in general is below this "better taste."
 
 
Spaniel
15:37 / 31.10.05
Let's get this back on topic, shall we?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
16:02 / 31.10.05
Infinite Crisis pretty much suffered from shooting too high too quickly. The amount of characters and events happening left me feeling really bewildered... I understand this "epic" and "large" would appeal to some readers, but it mostly left me cold. Couldn't connect with one character throughout the whole issue.

In many ways, Marvel seems to do these kind of things better sometimes. Flawed as it may be, but I've always loved Infinity War, which fundamentally followed two characters through a very large story. It gave it much more structure.

DC seems to pile on the side stories to such an extent that I'm mostly left cold by the whole.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:20 / 01.11.05
I do like the idea that there's a remnant of the pre-Crisis world running around (other than Psycho-Pirate) -- and seeing pre-Crisis Supes, Lois and Alexander Luthor from Earth 2 has me all nostalgiac...
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
13:57 / 01.11.05
But it's so oddly sudden. Maybe we'll get some explanation later but Pariah has been a prisoner in the DCU this whole time? Or did he show up because of the impending Crisis and Lutho just chloroformed him from behind?

That's the one thing that feels off about all this. Like I said, I'm sure it will be explained (I hope it will be explained), but the fact that there have been Earth-2 people in our world (not stuck in the Superman II mirror) this whole time is a bit of a stretch.
 
 
imaginary friend on the phone
14:20 / 01.11.05
I prefer the madness of the multiverse to the equally muddled madness of a single homogenized singoverse, but doesn't the existence of an anything from earth-2 at all significantly lessen the events of the first crisis. Seems like the company trying to get new readers with a massively hyped All Star line is just serving the fat beards and going back to the Silver Age multiverse that, in another effort to boost sales, they killed so mercilessly twenty years ago.

It amazes me that not only do comic authors manage to write stories that I don’t have any interest in, but that these stories actually manage to diminish the significance of the work of the past.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
15:36 / 01.11.05
Sorry if I ramble, I've a terrible cold and have been in bed for the first time this week for about twelve hours. I'm a lil' fuzzy headed.

I'm confused, friend. Do you mean that you have no interest in these stories because they don't hold to continuity?

I do agree that the All Star line is there to satisfy fans that want that kind of comic that no longer exists, but is also free of continuity. It's what it says on the label, more or less.

Crossovers and event comics are usually huge info dumps with every character apparently walking out the door that day into a suddenly crowded street full of disasters and dialogue, so... that's just what this is. The only difference with Infinite Crisis is that this time around we've had two years of build up, multiple minis and a kind of interconnected-ness in the monthlies that created a cohesive DC universe.

It's a crazy, violent, turbulent and different universe than what was published in 1984, but it does, in its weird comic book way, pay homage to and integrate DC continuity.

I'm 99% sure Pariah showed up out of the blue in Villains United #6 solely because that's what he does, right? He shows up, yells and wails and then bad shot goes down. In fact, Luthor even summed up his character for us in his capture of Pariah.

The multiple Earths thing is addressed in the JSA: Powergirl and Return of Donna Troy series but in essence the idea is that there are still multiple universes and left overs from that universe. In DC continuity, both Donna and Power Girl were the subject of numerous new origins since the original Crisis, so it holds water.

I think that if you're solely upset over continuity problems that you'll be fine with the Infinite Crisi.
 
  

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