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Infinite Crisis

 
  

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doyoufeelloved
02:52 / 13.10.05
4. Not really. A crazed breakaway Thanagarian death-cult was attempting to steal Rann's Omega Beam technology in the ADAM STRANGE miniseries. To save the planet, they used the Omega Beam to teleport Rann out of its own solar system entirely. Unfortunately, they teleported it to Thanagar's system, and the resultant shift in gravity caused Thanagar to dip too close to the sun in its orbit, frying the whole joint. So yes, they kinda did destroy Thanagar, but it's all a big misunderstanding, officer. In the resultant chaos, the death cult involved (who worship the Sin Eater) seem to have seized political control of the Thanagarian populace at large.
 
 
Aertho
03:09 / 13.10.05
So the two big gay planets are going to have to learn to share Rann, in Thanagar space?

Rannagar?
 
 
LDones
04:10 / 13.10.05
So the Human Bomb killed Dr. Polaris and his insanely stupid purple costume, The Nothing/Anti-Monitor is attacking Rannagar, Phantom Lady gets brutally penetrated by Deathstroke, and it looks to me like they're attempting to give a cosmic explanation for Batman and Superman acting like whiny teenagers, what with the universe being 'altered' and 'infected' and all.

Bizarrely enough I enjoyed it. With the Perez cover and Jiminez's pencils and the way the script hops around like mad from locale to character-filled locale, it really felt like Crisis 2 On Infiniter Earths.

So Yay for Superman from Earth 2. Despite my expectations of this, I enjoyed it. The 'fill-in-the-blanks' game from not reading the lead-in minis was part of the fun.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:14 / 13.10.05
Nightwing remains to fight an enormous amount of OMACs. One OMAC targets a superhuman identified as Ratcatcher. Do OMACS target and tackle both superheroes and supervillains?

The OMACs are essentially Omega sentinels - when activated their NANOBOTS have them identifying, attacking and adapting to all forms of superhuman.

Good to see they're gunning for the characters infected by James Robinson as well as Giffen and DeMattheis.
 
 
hachiman
08:29 / 13.10.05
Hey, y'all, back on the barb after a looonng time, glad to see all the Usual Suspects are still posting, but i digress...
What i want ask is , having read Wanted recently, does anyone else note the superficial similarities between the build-up to IC and the background to Wanted?, i mean all the major villains are sitting around a boardroom ala Wanted's Council, and they've recruited lackeys and preparing to wipe out the heroes once for all. Granted there are alot of DCU specific differences, but when Bizarro/Fuckwit is lackeying for Lex Luthor/Solomon Seltzer, and they are planning their Grisly Revenge, Deja Vu city man. Any Thoughts?
 
 
A beautiful tunnel of ghosts
12:06 / 13.10.05
Can't find a definitive quote from Millar himself, but IIRC the concept behind Wanted was originally intended as a Secret Society of Super Villains miniseries at DC. However, following its rejection by editorial, Millar reworked the story as a creator-owned property, which may explain the similarities, as presumably DC retained the rights to the story as submitted by Millar originally.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
12:28 / 13.10.05
I'm stupid. And confused. Could someone explain to me the importantance of the Super people on the last page? And what they have to do with Power Girl? Maybe I'm missing some stuff because I literally don't know anything about this current Power Girl.

I've read the original Crisis and I thought that all alternate universes were reconciled into one, right? Or is this Hypertime/The Kingdom?
 
 
FinderWolf
13:00 / 13.10.05
Well, Hypertime exists but we sure haven't heard much about it in the last several years. So the payoff from seeing all those alternate-reality characters on the last page is because we haven't seen them since the *first* Crisis (the Golden Age Superman who actually got older, thus the graying temples, his wife Lois who also got older, and the 'good' Luthor from Earth-2). And they seem to be saying 'we're from a better, cleaner time, we gotta help these dark grim'n'gritty murdering mindwiping heroes remember what it means to be SUPERHEROES!'

We are now being basically told that Power Girl (the main DCU Power Girl) is actually a leftover from the pre-Crisis universe, much in the same way that Psycho Pirate is/was.

So the alternate universe Luthor from Villains United is ANOTHER evil Luthor, not the redheaded 'good' Luthor from Earth-2 and Crisis, right? We don't seem to have any indications where Evil Alternate Luthor is from at this point.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:03 / 13.10.05
>> Nightwing remains to fight an enormous amount of OMACs.

I wonder if this will be dealt with in IC or in the pages of the NIGHTWING monthly.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:13 / 13.10.05
>> Also: why are some of the Guardians female?

Something about when they got rid of Parallax and restored/cleansed the main power battery; I remember Kyle or Hal saying "Hey, we even got some female Guardians now!"

As for the Teen Titans mention in IC #1, the latest issues of TT showed the impending return of evil demonic villain (and father of Raven) Trigon, so presumably this is a scene from an upcoming issue where they fight Trigon's evil demonic hordes.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
13:17 / 13.10.05
FinderWolf: Thank you. That helps.
 
 
gridley
13:18 / 13.10.05
At one point, back in the 80s, the Guardians hooked up with the Zamorans (the evil space Amazons who turned Carol Ferris into Star Sapphire) and they left the universe to go off and procreate. No, seriously. I seem to remember the last panel had them all paired up and walking off hand-in-hand. I took a long leave of absence from comics shortly after that, but I had assumed these new mixed-gender guardians were the offspring of that procreation.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:20 / 13.10.05
As for Rich Johnston's alleged spoiler, let's remember that Dan DiDio made a comment to the effect of lots of rumors are going around and not all of them may be true. i.e., DC may have let out false disinformation leaks about IC. DiDio cited the "Batman ends up in Arkham Asylum and someone else is Batman for a while" rumor specifically...

...I have a feeling that this rumor about Wally West biting it is a false leak. It's just too obvious to have the main DCU Flash die AGAIN in a Crisis. Now, when asked about this, Geoff Johns said 'look carefully at what Dan DiDio said.' DiDio said 'Crises are usually bad for Flashes.' So maybe Jay Garrick dies...? He is A Flash but not THE Flash, so to speak.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:26 / 13.10.05
>> it looks to me like they're attempting to give a cosmic explanation for Batman and Superman acting like whiny teenagers, what with the universe being 'altered' and 'infected' and all.

The DCU has 'grim'n'gritty/mindwiping/mistrusting heroes-itis.'
 
 
Aertho
13:57 / 13.10.05
= Modern Age?

= Sublime?
 
 
FinderWolf
14:40 / 13.10.05
As for the issue itself - I thought it was pretty good but not great. Decent set-up, the whole device of covering sooo many characters but not spending more than a few panels on each wore a little thin for me, even though it is very much like the first Crisis.

When Superman said to Wonder Woman "I don't even know who you ARE anymore!" I winced. Isn't that one of the most cliche bad soap opera lines EVER?? Although the question of was she about to kill Mongul or not in that moment is a somewhat interesting one...

It was fun to see characters from the old Crisis showing up. Jimenez' art was solid throughout. The shot of Golden Age Supes, particularly the pose, seemed like it was channeling an interesting mix of Curt Swan, Neal Adams and Howard Chakykin somehow.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
14:40 / 13.10.05
maybe Kid Flash dies...he's kind of useless, anyway, right?
 
 
FinderWolf
14:59 / 13.10.05
I doubt it; DC has a lot invested in their new Teen Titans group. The (relatively) new characters therein - Wonder Girl, Tim Drake, and Bart Allen are here to stay for a looong time, I think. But I suppose anything's possible.
 
 
Triplets
15:31 / 13.10.05
Which Luthor is behind the Villains United group? The krypto-smack taking one from Batman/Superman?
 
 
LDones
15:58 / 13.10.05
The Luthor who's running the Secret Society of Super Villains is an impostor, the exo-suit Luthor who's on the run is the normal DCU Luthor who was President, if I'm not mistaken.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
16:34 / 13.10.05
That was certianly the impression given by Villans United. Although I don't know if impostor is the right word... Paraih said there are two Luthors, not one guy pretending to be luthor and one nutcase.

And I love how JG Jones draws Luthor as an older Michael Rosenbaum.
 
 
Mario
17:25 / 13.10.05
I'm almost positive at this point that Evil Alternate Luthor is the pre-Crisis Lex Luthor...he of the purple & green tights.
 
 
Ulysses Lazarus
18:09 / 13.10.05
I'm almost positive at this point that Evil Alternate Luthor is the pre-Crisis Lex Luthor...he of the purple & green tights.

I think this seems the most plausible explanation. Also, I think they'll probably whack Golden Age Flash. Sort of the most disposable of the bunch. Golden Age Supes 0wNx0r3d. The alternate font and everything trying for the "retro" look and the whole God thing... isn't that why Superman is so cool? I like the tendency anyway. It seems that they want to eliminate the whole angst-ridden 80s thing. Good call.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:35 / 13.10.05
>> The alternate font

I noticed that too - of all the fonts they could have chosen, they went to an older-school type lettering. Interesting...
 
 
Henningjohnathan
18:52 / 13.10.05
Is it just because I don't read much of her titles or does most everyone else not realize that Gail Simone is one of the best comic book writers working?

I just read the first five issues of VILLAINS UNITED and it was certainly one of the most satisfying reads I've had in years. Great characterizations, surprising cliffhanger and plot twists plus terrifically entertaining dialogue. She makes an otherwise completely implausible idea not only acceptable, but very compelling. The idea that supervillains would somehow be offended that the heroes would alter Dr. Light's memories rather than kill him (which is what he and most of them deserve) is VERY HARD TO BUY. After all, like Dr. Light, none of these villains would have any problem doing any horrible thing to anybody they wanted to. Hell, more than a few of the societies top members are brain scramblers themselves (like the hilariously preoccupied DR. PSYCHO). And that these complete sociopaths would form a "society" to "protect" themselves from these heroes who've they've been trying to kill, maim and wipe from human history for the past 75 years, that is almost too much to take without a bottle of Jager and a lobotomy.

I mean, am I alone in thinking that the primary, central, fundamental friggin' element of IDENTITY CRISIS makes ABSOLUTELY NO %#@$ING SENSE?!!

Think about it - look at what the villains have done to the heroes. This includes killing their family members, destroying cities, taking over their bodies without their consent!

How is taking over someone's body justified, but when they wipe your memory rather than JUST KILL YOU like you deserve - how is THAT crossing the line?!

I mean, after someone takes over your body, a memory wipe is the LEAST you'd expect to do to 'em. Superman and Batman may have this code against killing, but I don't see "castration by heat vision" and "permanent spinal paralysis" off-limits in the rulebook. In fact, I don't even see a rule book!!

It just baffles me that these evil evil people would suddenly get incensed that the heroes would find some alternative to killing them by wiping their memories - so incensed that they would attempt to band together to prevent it (AND do exactly the same to the heroes!!) after all the horrid crap they've done to the heroes and innocent people over the years.

BUT even more ludicrous is to expect any reader to really buy that the mind wipes were in any way wrong, unjustified or unacceptably immoral.

Realistically, you know the Dr. Light scene woulda gone like this -

BATMAN - What are we gonna do about Dr. Light?

ZATANNA - I could erase his memory.

GREEN ARROW - Sounds like a plan to me.

SUPERMAN - But is it ethical?

WONDER WOMAN - Kal, he just raped and tortured one of our closest friends and he'd do it to anyone we loved if he got the chance. What else are we gonna do, kill him?

SUPERMAN - Hmmm. Okay, I'm in.

Miraculously, Simone manages to make it work in VU, but the rest of Crisis is built on smoke.

Simone not only makes it work, she uses the weaknesses inherent to the concept of a "society" of villains to add subtle shades to the struggle between the six and the society. I have to say that this writing is as good as anything I've read lately from Bendis, Johns, Ellis, Waid, or even Whedon in AXM. Eaglesham is not at the caliber of Cassady, but (like his work on the equally underrated H.E.R.O.) he can certainly tell a story well and he doesn't "miss" anything in the great writing like a few artists have been known to do.

Definitely top notch work in the otherwise disappointing series of interrelated titles between IDENTITY CRISIS and INFINITE CRISIS.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:26 / 13.10.05
>> that Gail Simone is one of the best comic book writers working?

I agree with this - she's a very strong superhero writer. Her Birds of Prey is almost always top-notch.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:36 / 13.10.05
Newsarama has a fun, informative column which mentions that:

>> While a full examination of The Kingdom is best left for another day, we’re primarily concerned with what turns out to be the first glimpse of Earth-2 Superman since the Crisis. Issue #1, from January of 1999, shows a version of Superman obscured in shadow who is straining to escape a heaven that now seemed prison. The story departs from that point as we learn throughout the course of the series that the various timelines can be revisited. At the close of #2 from February of 1999, we revisit that Superman, now clearly seen to be the Earth-2 version. The narration, written by Mark Waid, tells us, “For all he’d done, he deserved Heaven . . . not prison. But now, at long last, he knows this isn’t the jail he once believed it to be. There’s a door, even if he’s not going to use it. Not today, anyway.” The suggestion of course is that somewhere in existence; there we have not only the Earth-2 Superman, but a gateway into all the stories and characters of times past. But for all the apparent import of the introduction, the door stayed mostly closed.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:39 / 13.10.05
Here's the newsarama story, complete with pics from seminal moments in DC history.
 
 
Mario
21:13 / 13.10.05
And, clearly, on the last two pages of Infinite Crisis #1, he smashed open that door.
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:22 / 13.10.05
I kind of got board with VU & OP about halfway through. Didn't even bother with the other countdown mini's. Entering the actual IC series I don't feel as though I've missed all that much. Of all the set up it's rather unfortunate that the "FREEDOM FIGHTERS" never has a set up story of their own. James Robinson did gret work with Black Condor & Phantom Lass, It would'a been nice to how this particular group came together.
 
 
Spaniel
21:32 / 13.10.05
I mean, after someone takes over your body, a memory wipe is the LEAST you'd expect to do to 'em. Superman and Batman may have this code against killing, but I don't see "castration by heat vision" and "permanent spinal paralysis" off-limits in the rulebook. In fact, I don't even see a rule book!!

Damn straight! Rulebooks are for pussys.

So, then, what do people think of the Newsarama theory?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
22:21 / 13.10.05
That our cynical modern age needs old-fashioned heroes so we stop sniping at each other on the internet?

Gosh darn it, I say it's worth a try!
 
 
Mark Parsons
22:28 / 13.10.05
I agree with this - she's a very strong superhero writer. Her Birds of Prey is almost always top-notch.

What did you think of the first Brainiac story? The one with the cult? I'd stopped reading for about a year and did not love this arc, which pale besides the opening one and the recent one with Wildcat.

Still, so-so arcs aside, I agree that Simone is one heck of a writer.
 
 
Spaniel
22:37 / 13.10.05
Yeah, nobody sniped at each other in the old days. Ah, but the world grows ever darker...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:39 / 14.10.05
I mean, on some level I can totally see the appeal of bringing back both the greying elder statesman Superman and all of the stuff that Crisis wiped out - it's actually quite a nice idea and I can see why Morrison has got on board.

However I can't help being reminded of the whole Knightfall/Knightquest saga in the Batman comics however many years back. Bruce Wayne gets his back broken, Azrael takes over and then revamps the Batman to make him 'edgier' - at the time, this was hyped as a new dark techy Batman with blades and shit like what those Image heroes had. When Wayne reclaimed the name, it was because it had been perverted, and the letters pages of the time said "Aha! See, you said you wanted a grim and gritty Batman, and we gave you one, and you hated it, as you were meant to, and thus we have made out point!"

It was quite a good point. It wasn't that bad a concept for a story. There was just one problem: a lot of the actual comics involved were terrible.

Also, I find it very, very hard to believe that Brad Meltzer was in on all this, and wrote sad-faced Identity Crisis as an example of how the DCU is depressing now and needs Antimatter Alexander Luthor to fix it.
 
  

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