BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Big Brother 2004

 
  

Page: 1 ... 2021222324(25)2627282930... 50

 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
23:58 / 01.07.04
Well if Jason has three warnings like I think he has, then BB look kind of silly, don't they? Unless it's two "proper warnings" and one "talking about nominations" warning. God, they'll need to draw up score cards.

I hope things like the bedsit (and other fun... I mean evil, stuff) come in to play again, because they were entertaining. I imagine they'll be wary of utilising the bedsit again - unless other housemates at least know (ooo, fun! Knowing one of them is watching them!) - lest there be more explosions. A day or two in there, might be nice for punishment.

I like to imagine Emma at home shouting at her telly in the same way as before... happy times.

I think they should mess with evictions/nominations more as well. Stick em all up for a laaaaugh. See how their gameplans fare then!
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
00:01 / 02.07.04
Victor "I want the money, I want the fucking money, of course I want the fucking money! That's why I'm here!"

Ha! I mean, I don't think he'll get it. Also I find it odd to go through all this just for the chance of winning the money (which he says is his sole purpose), I mean, it's a big effort. Why doesn't he flex his intellect in quiz shows? Ah, maybe he thought he had a great gameplan.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
00:02 / 02.07.04
Although thinking about it, I imagine they can all earn a decent bit of cash purely from being on the show. They're all winners!
 
 
Ganesh
00:03 / 02.07.04
I think they should mess with evictions/nominations more as well. Stick em all up for a laaaaugh.

I reckon they ought to surprise them all, post-nominations, by playing the 'to camera' stuff on the big plasma screen in the living room...

And yeah, if Spampot's received three warnings, then it does indeed undermine Big Brother's authority. I expect they'd claim the recent one wasn't a formal warning of the 'three strikes and yer out' variety. Still makes 'em look kinda daft, though.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
00:05 / 02.07.04
Especially since one of the "proper warnings" involved not sitting on the sofa and saying bollocks a few times.
 
 
Ganesh
00:05 / 02.07.04
Although thinking about it, I imagine they can all earn a decent bit of cash purely from being on the show.

Well, quite. And Victor could sell advertising space on his arse.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
00:10 / 02.07.04
Looking increasingly likely that the reason Victor and Jason keep talking about the nominations is because they're incapable of talking about anything else. Every time they're together it's exactly the same: It's a game. I'm in here to win the money. I hate all the falseness in here.

Jason's face is far too small for his head. I think this is what puts the icing on the cake for me. Ratty. Proper ugly.

You'd hope that they're both up for eviction next week. Failing that, any week. It'd be interesting to see how much the alliance holds together when they're both facing a much earlier disappointment than they're expecting.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
00:11 / 02.07.04
I was also amused by imagining Victor on "Who wants to be a millionaire"....
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
00:12 / 02.07.04
PLAN: Bring back Jon Tickle! Ah...ha, last year was so shit.
 
 
Ganesh
00:31 / 02.07.04
Looking increasingly likely that the reason Victor and Jason keep talking about the nominations is because they're incapable of talking about anything else. Every time they're together it's exactly the same: It's a game. I'm in here to win the money. I hate all the falseness in here.

I guess there aren't many other ways of shoring up their flimsy Alpha Male identities: their physical achievements in the tasks have been modest (Victor's, anyway; he managed around 3 nanoseconds hanging above those nettles); they've singularly failed to win the affections of any of the females; their attempts to demonstrate any objective authority within the house have been shouty, messy and crap.

All they can do is ego-groom each other's ability to 'straight-talk' (when they're possibly the most duplicitously bitchy gossipmongers in there) and 'play a winning game' (when they're playing precisely the same game as everyone else, but doing so in an unlovely way likely to decrease their popularity outside the house).

Jason's face is far too small for his head. I think this is what puts the icing on the cake for me. Ratty. Proper ugly.

Heh. I think he has quite a characteristically Scottish face: wee, and crumpled.
 
 
Ganesh
01:34 / 02.07.04
Be fair, though, Jason didn’t wholly expose his soft and squishy side to Dan. It was covered with chocolate at the time.

One of the times. The "soft and squishy" innuendo was intentional: Jason tends to express himself (verbally and physically) in bodily metaphors, and it's not at all uncommon for one to (consciously or unconsciously) conceptualise one's protected 'inner core', psychologically speaking, in terms of one's viscera - which is why anal penetration is such potent shorthand for psychic assault, and why anxieties about crumbling psychic defences are so often expressed via dreams of one's teeth falling out (teeth being defence against penetration of one's soft and squishy insides from the top end).

The Spambot may have literally wanted a good arse-fucking from Dan (not unlikely), but all that buttock (and particularly sphincter) baring also reflected what was going on at the time in the psychological dimension: Jason was exposing some of his vulnerable psychic viscera to Dan (sexual failures/dissatisfactions; the fact that he's adopted and doesn't feel close to his parents; his general lack of direction/definition at the age of thirty).

We've not glimpsed much of those insecurities/vulnerabilities since then - as we haven't seen nearly as much of the glistening pink Spamarse. No coincidence, if y'ask me...
 
 
Jub
05:32 / 02.07.04
he's screwed up in the public eye by behaving in a horribly violent way more than once.

AdL - he hasn't screwed up in my eyes, and I'm a member of the public. I think he's very VERY funny.

I don't understand why everyone is down on Victor just because of his self-aggrandising ways. As I've already said, he can be confrontational but he's also very sweet. Anna - you seem particularly vehement in your views - I would really like to understand why!

And as for him being violent. Pur-lease. When was he violent? Are you talking about his reaction to the Maelstrom which was kicked-out-cos-she-was-more-trouble-than-she-was-worth Emma?

Ganesh - I'm not sure another black person in the house would "check" his behaviour. I'd also be interested to know why you think it would.

ALSO, WHAT IS THAT DAMN GAME THEY PLAY? It seems to be a version of checkers/draughts with food or stones on the lines of the cushions. Victor and Marco were playing it last night.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
06:51 / 02.07.04
Victor responds to anything he deems threatening (psychologically or physically) with aggressive behaviour.
I'm no Marco fan but Victor shouting at him on tuesday night (?) because Victor deemed that Marco considered himself a victim. Marco doesn't once raise his voice but Victor gets more and more animated. If I was in a situation like that I'd be anticipating violence because of the imbalance of aggression in the conversation.
He's aggressive by nature, although I think he's playing a role, "the antagonist" but playing it like he would in the outside world. Consequences don't seem to phase him, I wouldn't be suprised if he was the next to be asked to leave the house through rule breaking and aggression.
If you've seen/heard the "fight" you'll know what I mean.
 
 
Jub
07:54 / 02.07.04
I did see the fight, and agree he's aggressive. So? That's not the same thing as violence though is it?

The spat you mentioned with Marco was caused by Marco whingeing about being nominated, and Victor quite rightly told him to stop his moaning. Okay granted he put his point rather forcefully, but again, so what?

I see what you mean about the consequence thing, but I think you're over-exagerating somewhat since he does think about his consequneces very carefully, and I think this is why he spends so long in the diary room, getting it all off his chest so he doesn't with the housemates. He gives the appearance of being this "unknown quantity" but he's not.

He won't be asked to leave. I'll bet you a pint.
 
 
Ganesh
09:43 / 02.07.04
I don't understand why everyone is down on Victor just because of his self-aggrandising ways.

Well, I could similarly say, 'I don't understand why everyone is down on Jason just because of his sullen, bullying ways'. I guess different things annoy different people.

I'm not sure that I'd second the 'violent' thing - I think Spamboy's more likely to be physically violent - but Victor's demonstrated that, when he engages with an argument, he's anything but 'slick'. He has a tendency to shout (I think for him shouting = 'straight talking') which, in the fight with Emma, escalated. I'm not saying it was his fault, but he seemed unable to let it go - and I fear my opinion of him is forever marred by his bellowing over and over, "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?"

Ganesh - I'm not sure another black person in the house would "check" his behaviour. I'd also be interested to know why you think it would.

I'm not sure they'd "check" his behaviour, but I think they'd call him on some of the macho bullshit - some which trades, I think, on common cultural stereotypes of blackness, particularly the myth of black male sexual potency (he's got a hee-yoooge penis; he always pleases da laaydeeez; he could've had any woman in the house because he's badder than the average bear, etc., etc.). I think this because I've discussed him with a number of black friends and colleagues now, and he seems to be generally regarded in the same way as lesbians viewed Kitten and gay men Marco ie. as an irritating stereotype.

And I guess I believe other black guys would see through that in the same way as, oooh, New Yorkers tend to see through the Fun Loving Criminals' Noo Yawk gangster pantomime (they do much better in the UK and Europe).

ALSO, WHAT IS THAT DAMN GAME THEY PLAY? It seems to be a version of checkers/draughts with food or stones on the lines of the cushions.

It's a version of checkers/draughts with food or stones on the lines of the cushions.
 
 
Ganesh
09:51 / 02.07.04
He won't be asked to leave. I'll bet you a pint.

I suspect your pint's safe. I don't think he'll be asked to leave either: if any of the Jungle Twats are kicked out, it's gonna be Jason (who's apparently had three warnings already, and breaks the rules more consistently) or Ahmed (who's actually begging to be nominated out).
 
 
Ganesh
10:01 / 02.07.04
Aaand, from the upper end of the Spambot's soft & squishy GI tract, comes the assertion that he is 100% straight, and his professed bisexuality had variously been "part of a character I wanted to play in the House", "just acting that way to get him [Dan] as a friend" and "just having a laugh".

Uh-huh. No wonder Dan's lost respect for him. It all seems to be the Big Brother equivalent of 'I was sooo drunk last night'...
 
 
Jub
10:18 / 02.07.04
Quite. Prick tease. Feel a bit sorry for Dan - until I realise he's a faaaarkin sneaky bloke.

I've got the feeling that Becki fancying Spambot is merely a ruse to indear him to her - using the whiff of sex to keep him from nominating her. I could be wrong I suppose and it's just she like overbearing, moronic musclebound idiots who've a penchant for rough and univited sex play.

I did like Marco's smackdown of Becki as he was going back inside from the garden the other day - I can't rememebr exactly what was said, but it seemed he'd got the better of her in a rather effortless way, which was surprising as I haven't seen him do that convincingly before without support from the others.

(Also - in the bedroom at the "full moon party" - his dancing was the very model of a dance of disrespect! - hilarious).
 
 
Ganesh
10:51 / 02.07.04
Quite. Prick tease. Feel a bit sorry for Dan - until I realise he's a faaaarkin sneaky bloke.

I don't think Dan's "sneaky" here so much as experienced in dealing with men like Spambo. I don't think it's necessarily the prick-teasing that's made him angry/disappointed (although it certainly ain't nice to have someone disclose something of personal significance to you, only to later claim it was all merely "a laugh"); I think it's more that he recognises Spamboy is lying to himself, which renders him contemptible. I'm not saying Jason's gay, but he certainly ain't uncomplicatedly heterosexual; and, unlike the Big Brother shrink, I don't think he's fully covered by the 'narcissist' label either.

Now, with Victor his New Best Friend, the Spamular One seems to be busily revising, papering over previous (arse)cracks, rewriting himself and his personal history in terms of supersmooth (but 'straight-talking') sexual-manipulator hetero male. Bit like Victor's panto-persona, then.

Dan can see through it in an instant, which is why it disgusts him. It's also not gonna work.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:57 / 02.07.04
Watching the fallout of Michelle's nomination with the knowledge of Becki's betrayal was riveting: largely because nobody seems to be suspecting her involvement, they're all too focused on the existing rivalries in the house. I found myself screaming for someone, anyone - but probably Dan - to start putting the pieces together. Why is Beckie crying? THINK, Daniel. Get thee leetle grey cells working!
 
 
Ganesh
11:08 / 02.07.04
It's such a novel, counterintuitive change to the Big Brother rules, though, Flyboy - the new housemate never gets to nominate like that - that I don't blame them for not having thought of it.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:24 / 02.07.04
Nor do I really. I also think the concept of Big Brother explicitly lying to them (even though it's already happened once with the besit malarkey) is very, very hard to believe, because they're otherwise very dependant on BB and very used to having do follow instructions given to the letter.
 
 
Bamba
12:34 / 02.07.04
What is a true bisexual? All you have to do to be bisexual is find yourself attracted to a member of your sex (and the opposite sex) every so often. Then there's identification, you could be attracted to a member of your own sex, wish to deny it and thus not identify as bisexual. The people in the house are thus probably bisexual as they choose to identify as such. Why then would we need evidence? Welcome to barbelith, go and read Head Shop.

I...but..what? Your original post found it "interesting" that supposedly bisexual people were "reverting to the cultural default" and being somehow dishonest in this. While I perhaps shouldn't have used the word 'evidence' in my reply, the (slightly rephrased) question still stands: what is it that makes you think they aren't all actually straight and are thus not reverting to anything? You talk about the nature of bisexuality ending with the conclusion that they're "probably" bisexual based, from what I can see, on the nothing but the fact that they told the producers this which isn't in any way reliable.

Maybe I will go and read Head Shop but if the posts there are as smugly dismissive and condescending as yours here then I doubt I'll stay there long. You seem to imply that the threads there are some kind of set text on sexuality and that, until I've read them, I'm somehow not qualified to discuss anything which is bollocks let's face it.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
12:42 / 02.07.04
The way Victor thinks he can win an argument by shouting the loudest (thus getting his point across more effectively and more aggressively than his rival) really bugs me.
There's no need to scream and shout during a conversation unless you're actually having a heated debate. The case in point with Marco was anything but heated and Victor had no reason to be that exasperated either.
He just thinks "loudest = best".
He annoys me much more than the shrieking queen Marco, who still annoys me for being so insipid.
 
 
Bamba
12:49 / 02.07.04
And, if it really was an "obvious ploy to get into the house", then it deserves to be exposed as such.

Meh. I don't know that telling the producers what they want to hear is any kind of crime that 'deserves' anything. It's a nonsense gameshow with the express purpose of entertaining people, not the high-brow psychological experiment that it sometimes attempts to present itself as. Holding the contestants up to some moral ideal where lying about their sexuality (or indeed anything else) comes as a shock seems a little naive surely?
 
 
Ganesh
12:50 / 02.07.04
the (slightly rephrased) question still stands: what is it that makes you think they aren't all actually straight and are thus not reverting to anything?

If they're all actually straight, then their reasons for claiming bisexuality are, at the very least, highly suspect (given that one of the deadly sins of Big Brother is to appear 'fake' or 'having an agenda'). It's perhaps understandable that those of us whose orientations are truly other-than-hetero might feel aggrieved at having our sexualities reduced to a tactical ploy of attention-grabbing heterosexuals on a game show (as might well be the case if Caucasians entered the house blacked-up, minstrel-style, because they thought they'd be more interesting/watchable black).

Also, for me, it's the fact that four or five of the housemates have claimed at least some degree of bisexuality. If they're all essentially straight people with cynical 'gameplans', then one has to question the use of the 'bisexual' label more generally. Don't you feel they devalue the currency somewhat?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:51 / 02.07.04
Oh dear God: Becki probably owns a book by 'Barefoot'.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
13:02 / 02.07.04
I think Jay would still be "bi" if his bossom buddy wasn't Victor, who I'm guessing wouldn't approve. Or Jay may not believe he would approve anyway. They bond over girls and hating the gay hareem... being Bi is a step closer towards the enemy camp (ha ha) and smoething I expect Jay would like to detach himself from.

Where are the lads claiming to have bedded ginger minger? The Sun could do with a good front page expose.
 
 
Ganesh
13:03 / 02.07.04
Meh. I don't know that telling the producers what they want to hear is any kind of crime that 'deserves' anything. It's a nonsense gameshow with the express purpose of entertaining people, not the high-brow psychological experiment that it sometimes attempts to present itself as.

True, but as expressed in my previous post, those of us who have risked physical/social/cultural ostracism in order to exist openly as non-heterosexuals are perhaps entitled to feel pissed off that fundamental aspects of our sexual being (and often aspects we personally fought for) are being cynically bandied around as self-glamourising 'bisexual chic'. My sexuality is more than candyfloss tele-entertainment, and if the Big Brother bisexuals are all straight people trying to make themselves more interesting, then I find them somewhat contemptible.

Holding the contestants up to some moral ideal where lying about their sexuality (or indeed anything else) comes as a shock seems a little naive surely?

It's the weight of numbers that's annoying me, the fact that all the bisexual-identifying people are apparently "lying about their sexuality". If I were bisexual myself, I daresay it'd piss me off even more.
 
 
Ganesh
13:09 / 02.07.04
I think Jay would still be "bi" if his bossom buddy wasn't Victor, who I'm guessing wouldn't approve. Or Jay may not believe he would approve anyway. They bond over girls and hating the gay hareem... being Bi is a step closer towards the enemy camp (ha ha) and smoething I expect Jay would like to detach himself from.

I don't think Victor's the whole story of Jason's Flight From Queer, but he's a big part of it.
 
 
Bamba
13:12 / 02.07.04
If they're all actually straight, then their reasons for claiming bisexuality are, at the very least, highly suspect (given that one of the deadly sins of Big Brother is to appear 'fake' or 'having an agenda').

No, the contestants always seem to think having an agenda is bad (except Nasty Nick I suppose) but surely you as a viewer realise this is nonsense? Even if you view it at it's simplest, 12 people just living in a house, everyone's always going to have an agenda in terms of wanting rid of people they personally don't get on with just to make their own lives easier/more pleasurable. It's an aspect of BB I've always found ridiculous that talk of people having a 'gameplan' is always conducted in hushed shcked whispers. The American BB is quite different in that respect, it's sold much more as an actual gameshow with people openly boasting about their plans and talking tactics is pratically encouraged.

It's perhaps understandable that those of us whose orientations are truly other-than-hetero might feel aggrieved at having our sexualities reduced to a tactical ploy of attention-grabbing heterosexuals on a game show

Yes, I can see this but I don't think I'd neccesarily blame the contestants for that (at least not entirely). People wouldn't try this tactic if they didn't think it would be successful and it's success is more to do with the attitudes of the producers than anyone else. You could then argue that the producers themselves are only pandering to the desires of the great unwashed which leaves society itself to blame which is no great shock. Sure, you could say that the contestants shouldn't take advantage of this but if these ones didn't we'd just have a different set of heteros-in-bi-clothing in the house right now. That doesn't really make it any better though does it? Ha! Quiver beneath the might of my pointlessly circular 'logic'!

If they're all essentially straight people with cynical 'gameplans', then one has to question the use of the 'bisexual' label more generally. Don't you feel they devalue the currency somewhat?

I'm not sure, certainly to me it makes no real difference but in general I couldn't really comment. The fact that I don't believe these particular people are bisexual wouldn't cause me to doubt someone elses word. Even less so because I can see why the housemates might lie about it (i.e. they've got something to gain from it) but if I met someone today who said that they were bi and I couldn't see any possible motive for lying then I'd believe them. They'd be in a different situation from the housemates so my reason for doubting the housemates sexualities wouldn't come into play in a real life situation.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
13:12 / 02.07.04
Add to that the departure of Vanessa, "it's ok to be Bi if you're after a girl" (straight mens rule #213), and he has only Dan to flirt with.
I think despite Becki's best efforts he's too wary of her to flirt back. Yet.
 
 
Bamba
13:15 / 02.07.04
Apologies to Ganesh, I think out posts and responses are beginning to overlap a bit. If I seem to be banging on about something you've already covered then it's likely because I haven't read your response yet and not because, as it may seem, I'm utterly dense.
 
 
Ganesh
13:48 / 02.07.04
No, don't worry, Bamba; I don't think you're being dense. I suspect mutual enthusiasm is causing overlap...

No, the contestants always seem to think having an agenda is bad (except Nasty Nick I suppose) but surely you as a viewer realise this is nonsense?

Of course I do; "deadly sins" is intended to be tongue-in-cheek. I don't think the 'gameplan = baaad' sentiment is limited to housemates, though; I think it bleeds over into the attitudes of at least some of Big Brother's voting demographic (and, for that matter, the accompanying meedja hoopla).

I'm making the pragmatic case that, while claiming bisexuality (if one is straight) may initially bolster one's kerrraaazy exoticism, it's not necessarily a popularity-winning strategem in the long-run, either with those inside or outside the house. I reckon it lays one open to accusations of 'fakery' which, while not logically-consistent, are probably heartfelt, and do have consequences.

It's an aspect of BB I've always found ridiculous that talk of people having a 'gameplan' is always conducted in hushed shcked whispers.

I agree. 'Being oneself' is a ridiculously overrated farce.

Yes, I can see this but I don't think I'd neccesarily blame the contestants for that (at least not entirely).

I don't know that I am blaming them for this, mainly because I'm not convinced that, in the cases of Emma, Michelle, Shell, Jason and Becki, it was invariably a conscious 'excite the producers' tactic. I still find that a questionably catch-all explanation, and tend instead to believe that they have more individual reasons for identifying as bisexual. It's still frustrating, however, that in every case, they clearly found it easier to conform to opposite-sex attraction.

if these ones didn't we'd just have a different set of heteros-in-bi-clothing in the house right now. That doesn't really make it any better though does it?

Well, no. Is it really the case that everyone who presents him/herself as bisexual on Big Brother is most likely a hetero-in-bi-clothing? If that's the case, then I'm not so much angered as depressed...

The fact that I don't believe these particular people are bisexual wouldn't cause me to doubt someone elses word.

Maybe not you, but I think that, for many, the likes of Big Brother is their primary exposure to non-fictional, non-neutered alternate sexualities. Even my mother - who, for fuck's sake, has an openly gay son - gleans much of her knowledge of the wilder shores of sexuality from the programme (she's never quite forgiven me for not being Brian Dowling...). If bisexuals on Big Brother are uniformly heterosexual people lying to make themselves seem interesting, then it's not unreasonable to venture that those unacquainted with bi people might assume that all bisexuals are heterosexuals trying to make themselves seem more interesting.

Even less so because I can see why the housemates might lie about it (i.e. they've got something to gain from it) but if I met someone today who said that they were bi and I couldn't see any possible motive for lying then I'd believe them. They'd be in a different situation from the housemates so my reason for doubting the housemates sexualities wouldn't come into play in a real life situation.

Good for you. I don't think everyone makes that logical leap. And 'to make themselves seem more interesting' is a secondary gain motive whether one is purportedly bi inside or outside the Big Brother house.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:49 / 02.07.04


Also! Taking sides: Becki's website v. Dan's band's website?
 
  

Page: 1 ... 2021222324(25)2627282930... 50

 
  
Add Your Reply