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Big Brother 2004

 
  

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_Boboss
10:32 / 01.07.04
i reckon it's gotta be marco this week. his reaction to being nominated was all about being a prick, and victor was dead on jumping at him. nadia's just quite nice really [cept for the noisy me me me nicotine fitting - noisy nicotine addicts are just the worst], and probably will seem more so once she has no marco to dictate her responses, and meshell (fancy dress party as a ninja turtle with a gurl hanging on your back) won't go after the injustice of becki's nommo. that becki's a beeyatch, don't care how big her tits are she's got to go next week.
 
 
Spaniel
10:40 / 01.07.04
So Becki gave the Judas kiss to Michelle, so what? Sure it weren't nice, but them's the breaks. What really worries me about Becki is the meat lust. How could anyone who'd watched the show fail to hate the fucker.

Ah, but I'm forgetting his blue, blue eyes.
 
 
_Boboss
10:52 / 01.07.04
exactly - she's given jason a real push, marking her as very definitely the stupidest of all possible people. and she's a folk singer, who just loves going around dishing patronising advice uninvited, talking in touchy feely NewAge cliches the whole time. OUT!!
 
 
Ganesh
11:07 / 01.07.04
Victor's likeability: hmmm, 'fraid his self-aggrandising twattishness (albeit expressed in a fairly limited way) trumps any perceptible good qualities, for me anyway. He's just sooo all-mouth and nooo trousers, I find it hard to see beyond that.

As has been mentioned many times previously, there's nothing sexual about Marco at all. His only real addition to the house is his rampantly cliched limp-wristed squealing with a side order of vicious bitchery, do you honestly want that tipping any kind of balance? I put it to you that his departure wouldn't change the 'sexuality' of the house as a whole because he's not currently adding anything to it.

I see what you're saying, but I'm not talking sexual activity so much as the perceived spectrum of sexual orientation(s) in the house, and how this affects the way individuals and groups organise themselves.

At the start of this year's Big Brother, I drew a distinction between the phenomenon of a 'token homo' among straights (as has tended to be the case most other years) and contriving a more equal balance. Initially, we had Marco, Dan and Kitten providing the obvious non-hetero Other - and there was Nadia (whose presence at least evoked the spectre of gender fluidity, and led to questioning/discussion) and a number of others who defined themselves in varying shades of bisexual. This was very different from the more usual 'poof among hets' scenario, and perhaps provided an appropriately 'polysexual' environment in which the likes of Jason felt able to discuss his own sexual anxieties/dissatisfactions/ambiguities - in an intriguingly honest way.

If this situation had continued, perhaps some of the other maybisexuals would've explored their complexities a little more thoroughly. As it happened, Kitten was evicted, leaving only two self-defined homos. The bisexual contingent seemed to draw its horns in (or was, perhaps, never that adventurous in the first place) and expressed flirtatious desire along predominantly hetero lines. The heteros (particularly the hetero males) appeared to consolidate as a group, ludicrously christening themselves the Jungle Cats (as opposed, presumably, to the sexually Other 'pussies'). Jason - who is, I think, a sensitive barometer of such things - quit the soul-baring, allied himself with the most panto-obvious Alpha Male, Victor.

Since then, we've lost a straight female and a supposedly bi female - and gained one of the latter. Becki, as appears to be the way with Big Brother bisexuals, has expressed 'fanciability' only for the opposite sex, so she doesn't tip the balance much. Her entry to the house did, however, seem to up the ante with the Alpha Males, with Jason not merely retreating wholly beneath his hetero facade, but actually denying ever having claimed to be bisexual. Dan commented that he'd met loads of guys like Jason and, sadly, I'd have to agree; as with many 'hard men', it takes an artificially accepting (hothousing polysexual) environment to coax him into admitting any degree of vulnerability/ambiguity. The more hetero his surroundings, the more he conforms, becoming an exaggerated (but ultimately failed) stereotype of masculinity.

So... this is why I think the mere fact of Marco's presence in the house has wider implications - even if Marco himself is uniquely irritating. He's one half of the house's Queer Pole and, if he goes, I envisage further conforming to rather bland heteronormativity, all ambiguity squeezed out. He doesn't contribute anything directly, no, but the fact that he's there, and so blatantly (if asexually) non-hetero helps produce a more interesting environment. For me, anyway.
 
 
_Boboss
11:30 / 01.07.04
i don't see vic as no trousers - he owned marco last night who was being immature and snidey, and by drawing-in vulnerable personalities like ahmed and jason he's effectively insulated himself against the vote until the closing weeks of the game. that's about as much as you can do with the game rules, and he's smart enough to have done it.

plus his 'let the baddie win' stuff in the diary room last week was brilliant. don't want him to go until the last five which is the best time to go unless you win.
 
 
Spaniel
11:40 / 01.07.04
Gambit, I know what you're saying. Becki's meat lust puts her squarely in the special catagory. It's just that, if I follow this reasoning to it's source, I find Jason's scrunched up face and beady little eyes staring out at me.

The miserable muscle feast is at the heart of all I hate.
 
 
Bamba
12:52 / 01.07.04
I see what you're saying, but I'm not talking sexual activity so much as the perceived spectrum of sexual orientation(s) in the house, and how this affects the way individuals and groups organise themselves.

This is actually exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the sexuality of the house: the sexuality of the environment itself rather than the gender of any actual pairings within. Given that, I still don't see Marco as having any real influence (although I agree entirely with everything else you said in your post). It's like, he's gay in concept and everyone intellectually knows that but in comparison to, for example, Dan's explicitly vocal appreciation for Jason's arse I don't see him doing/saying anything that would challenge anyone to analyse their own feelings. His only behaviour that reminds you of his sexuality is the aforementioned hideous ubercampness which, allied with his equally distasteful personality, might very well actually be counter-productive when dealing with someone on such a knife-edge as Jason. Certainly, if I was on psychologically shaky ground and considering questioning my own sexuality only to be presented with Marco as an implicit example of un-hetero-ness I'd be likely to run screaming for the safety of cliched masculinity.
 
 
Bamba
12:56 / 01.07.04
Disclamer: I know what I'm trying to say here but, reading that back, it's not come out (ho, ho) so well so maybe I need to think about what I'm trying to say a bit more. With that in mind, be gentle with me.
 
 
Ganesh
12:57 / 01.07.04
i don't see vic as no trousers - he owned marco last night who was being immature and snidey, and by drawing-in vulnerable personalities like ahmed and jason

Well, "drawing in vulnerable personalities" is just what I see Victor as doing: he's certainly Spambo's prime role model of heterosexual masculinity within the house - which is one main reason, as I see it, for the latter's descent into aggressive (if poorly-performed) Alpha(het)ville.

I'm not trying to suggest he's too cowed to defend himself, verbally. No, what irritates me is the apparent gulf between the 'I Am Da Man With Da Baby's Arm' bullshit (and Victor uses the Diary Room more than any other housemate), when he falls distinctly short of Alpha Maledom in almost every way. Only exceptionally insecure or disconnected men (Jason, Ahmed) are likely to buy into this bollocks. I suspect also that if there were any other black people in the house, his veneer of 'straight-talking Alpha super-shagger' would be quickly exposed.

Then there's the smooth Master Manipulator element: all that "I'm pickin' 'em off, one by one" 'gameplan' shite...

I think it's the fact that his own self-image is so much at odds with objective reality, that prods my irritation centres.
 
 
Ganesh
13:03 / 01.07.04
Bamba, it's not so much Marco's gayness that's relevant, IMHO, as his non-heterosexuality. It's not his value (or otherwise) as a gay role model, but the fact that he is very obviously not a conventionally heterosexual male, and makes no attempt to 'pass' as one. He's Other. This is what alters the balance.

Without him, the house will be full of individuals who (with the very possible exception of Dan) could pass for straightforward hets. That will, I think, make for rather bland viewing.
 
 
Ganesh
13:07 / 01.07.04
And, although I appreciate that the Spamster projects his own self-disgust onto Marco, I don't think it's Marco's squealery that's pushed him in the direction of Panto Masculinity (Marco was, after all, there from the beginning; his witless campery didn't stop Jason exposing his soft & squishy side to Dan early on). I think it was a combination of homosexual anxiety at getting so close to Dan, along with a change in the house's balance of sexualities (toward hetness) following Kitten's departure.
 
 
h1ppychick
13:35 / 01.07.04
What's the matter with heterosexuality anyway if it's a true depiction of peoples' inner realities? If your agenda is one of only becoming engaged by issues of alternative sexuality and gender, that is as narrow-minded and denying of accepting the truth of a person as Jason's hetero posturing.

If you're saying that you want the non-heteronorms to prevail because that's what you find interesting, that's as much of a prejudice as discriminating against gays. It's defining people by only one aspect, that of sexuality, and not looking as people as full individuals.
 
 
DaveBCooper
13:40 / 01.07.04
Be fair, though, Jason didn’t wholly expose his soft and squishy side to Dan. It was covered with chocolate at the time.

Infantile word-plays aside, I hope this isn’t a rude question, as it’s not meant to be, but : Ganesh, are you a psychologist by training/profession/inclination ? I’m not being facetious or anything, it’s just that you talk with obvious knowledge, but I don’t recall – offhand – any explicit comments to that effect. Being nosey here, not rude, I hope.
 
 
Spaniel
14:06 / 01.07.04
Ganesh is a psychiatrist.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:07 / 01.07.04
What's the matter with heterosexuality anyway if it's a true depiction of peoples' inner realities?

Yes but is it? It's far easier to be straight than gay, in a high pressure environment, surrounded by new people and feeling pretty insecure, all of the bisexuals in the house have presented as straight. They've done that despite Dan, a person who's at the core of the house being gay and Marco, leader of the harem being present.

There's nothing wrong with people being heterosexual, what's interesting about the present situation is that a whole bunch of folks who feel stressed have reverted to the cultural default instead of being honest about themselves (particularly Jason).
 
 
Bamba
14:15 / 01.07.04
what's interesting about the present situation is that a whole bunch of folks who feel stressed have reverted to the cultural default instead of being honest about themselves (particularly Jason).

I don't actually buy this. Aside from some of them telling Channel 4 that they were bisexual (which is an obvious ploy to get into the house), do we have any actual evidence that any of them are? Jason I'll give you, although I'm still not 100% convinced, but who are thse other bisexers you talk about?
 
 
h1ppychick
14:23 / 01.07.04
Fair point, if they are true bisexuals and if they would otherwise have been attracted to a same-sex housemember, and if they would have otherwise acted on that attraction. A lot of 'ifs' there.

That theory breaks down, however, if a heterosexual applicant knowingly portrayed themselves as bisexual to the programme's producers, in the knowledge that the show had tanked last year and that the producers would no doubt be looking for something a little more edgy this year.

Also if they don't fancy any of their same-sex housemates.

Also if they have reservations about acting on a sexual attraction in front of millions of viewers, which could well be the case - although with the level of disinhibition in the house I accept that this may not be such a large consideration for the housemates.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
14:23 / 01.07.04
victor to win.
 
 
h1ppychick
14:24 / 01.07.04
That'll teach me to tyupe slowly - my post was in response to Anna.
 
 
_Boboss
14:36 / 01.07.04
sorry g that wasn't clear earlier, i meant that it was victor who was drawing-in the weaker personalities to protect himself as evidence that he wasn't trouserless.

i mean, you're right to be annoyed, but y'know kilroy's annoying but you wouldn't want him not to be on the telly would you? that would be awful.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:41 / 01.07.04
Aside from some of them telling Channel 4 that they were bisexual (which is an obvious ploy to get into the house), do we have any actual evidence that any of them are?

What is a true bisexual? All you have to do to be bisexual is find yourself attracted to a member of your sex (and the opposite sex) every so often. Then there's identification, you could be attracted to a member of your own sex, wish to deny it and thus not identify as bisexual. The people in the house are thus probably bisexual as they choose to identify as such. Why then would we need evidence? Welcome to barbelith, go and read Head Shop.
 
 
Ganesh
18:01 / 01.07.04
What's the matter with heterosexuality anyway if it's a true depiction of peoples' inner realities? If your agenda is one of only becoming engaged by issues of alternative sexuality and gender, that is as narrow-minded and denying of accepting the truth of a person as Jason's hetero posturing.

Well, nothing's particularly wrong with heterosexuality - but it's kinda ubiquitous and, going by last year's exclusively hetero Big Brother, tele-yawnsville.

I'm not sure that presenting oneself as heterosexual necessarily is "a true depiction of peoples' inner realities" - not this year, anyway. Several have presented themselves (to the programme's producers) as bisexual. Now, this could be read as an obvious ploy to get into the Big Brother house (in which case their true depiction of their inner realities is at odds with their stated sexual reality) or it could be accepted that they're truly bisexual, in which case they're coincidentally all attracted to the opposite sex at present (or their stated sexual realities are at odds with their true depiction of their inner realities).

My "agenda"? Well, apart from the straightforward pleasure of seeing people even remotely like me (ie. non-heterosexual) onscreen, my "agenda" includes two main elements:

1) I want to see people discuss/explore a range of sexualities

and

2) I want the Big Brother house to avoid utter blandness (see last year's version).

So... obviously I'm biased in favour of allowing options other than 'boy meets girl' heterosexuality. Nothing against it, particularly, but it's everywhere, and I'd like to see something different now.

If you're saying that you want the non-heteronorms to prevail because that's what you find interesting, that's as much of a prejudice as discriminating against gays. It's defining people by only one aspect, that of sexuality, and not looking as people as full individuals.

Yeah yeah yeah. Except that "non-heteronorms" are in the minority and heterosexuals are very much in the majority, in our society and (particularly) onscreen. I don't particularly want the poofs to "prevail"; I just think their presence in the Big Brother house is kinda important in terms of maintaining a general atmosphere of sexual adventurousness as opposed to conformity. They may be stereotypical, but at least they're a constant reminder that there are avenues and possibilities other than the hetero default. The sexual exploration is what interests me; if you wanna label that "prejudice", then go straight ahead. I'll try hard not to lose sleep over it.
 
 
Ganesh
18:02 / 01.07.04
I hope this isn’t a rude question, as it’s not meant to be, but : Ganesh, are you a psychologist by training/profession/inclination?

Psychiatrist by training/profession. Psychologist by inclination.
 
 
Ganesh
18:10 / 01.07.04
It's far easier to be straight than gay, in a high pressure environment, surrounded by new people and feeling pretty insecure, all of the bisexuals in the house have presented as straight.

That's my gripe. I can totally understand the "high pressure environment" thing - as an adolescent in a small Scottish town with no (visible) homos, I first attempted heterosexuality (laughable) then claimed bisexuality (improbable); it took a move to the city to enable me to ease into homosexuality (comfortable) - but it seems to me that, if they were able to claim bisexuality to the Big Brother producers, knowing it'd be a selling point, then the fact that they're onscreen as bisexuals shouldn't, in and of itself, necessarily stop them from expressing any sort of same-sex attraction, ever. Which it apparently has.

There's nothing wrong with people being heterosexual, what's interesting about the present situation is that a whole bunch of folks who feel stressed have reverted to the cultural default instead of being honest about themselves (particularly Jason).

Absolutely. Either they were being dishonest when they initially claimed bisexuality, or they're now reverting to the 'easy option', culturally-speaking, of expressing themselves in purely hetero terms.
 
 
Ganesh
18:17 / 01.07.04
Aside from some of them telling Channel 4 that they were bisexual (which is an obvious ploy to get into the house), do we have any actual evidence that any of them are? Jason I'll give you, although I'm still not 100% convinced, but who are thse other bisexers you talk about?

Well, other than references from previous sexual partners, I'm not sure what would constitute "evidence" of bisexuality. Individuals claiming bisexuality included (if I'm remembering correctly) Emma, Jason, Michelle, Shell and Becki.

And, if it really was an "obvious ploy to get into the house", then it deserves to be exposed as such. One wonders how many purported bisexuals would need to be airdropped into the Big Brother house before one of them would express any sort of same-sex attraction. Interesting, statistically.

They're letting the side down, greedy fence-sitting scum that they are...
 
 
Ganesh
18:27 / 01.07.04
you're right to be annoyed, but y'know kilroy's annoying but you wouldn't want him not to be on the telly would you?

Bad example. I'd like to see Kilroy in a shallow grave, the soil falling over his head. Alive.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:54 / 01.07.04
i don't see vic as no trousers - he owned marco last night who was being immature and snidey, and by drawing-in vulnerable personalities like ahmed and jason he's effectively insulated himself against the vote until the closing weeks of the game

I'd like to know why Victor thinks he's going to win by getting to week 10? He'll get a little more press coverage and perhaps a bit of cash but he seems to be missing the significant point- he is not going to win his little game and that's all Victor talks about in the diary room, playing the game. He's losing it though because sure, no nominations for a while but he's screwed up in the public eye by behaving in a horribly violent way more than once. His behaviour isn't admirable, it's appalling, he nominated Marco and then he got uppity when Marco made it clear that he didn't particularly like him. Well, what does Victor expect, everyone to fall over and lick his shoes when he obviously hasn't 'respected' them. Where's the respect in a game where you go behind people's backs and vote them out? He's full of shit and he's already lost the public vote.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:56 / 01.07.04
Oh and also Kilroy- racist bastard, I don't want that UKIP piece of dirt anywhere near my TV screen. Ganesh definitely has the right idea.
 
 
Olulabelle
22:30 / 01.07.04
Oh. Yay for Barbelith and this thread. I wish, wish, wish Channel 4 had a link to it from their Big Brother forum. For your delectation, the top titles on the forum there:

Daft comment of the day award
Is Ahmed having a sly tug whilst Shell's sat at his bedside?
Frick and Frack
Get Marco out before he turns to a prune!!
lol DO YU ALL REALIZE WE WILL BE HERE FOR MONTHS ON THIS FORUM....LIKE LAST YEAR
Sorry, but does anyone know why Jay and Ahmed were arguining
Jungle Cat or Harem POLL
Is Dermot really Ron Horse?
JCs VS Harem: The Irony
Jason is soooo panicking!
o dear vic n jason talkin round ahmed  
Do we care who wins?
Simple which one will it be?
QUOTE'I'm not leaving here without a scrap'
Shell: "Ahmed i have never questioned your integrity"
MARCO!! do NOT let them pull you in, BE STRONG!!
A MASSIVE TWIST!!!
Oh No - Shell playing mediator again!

I like our thread much better.
 
 
Ganesh
23:14 / 01.07.04
Oh, I dunno. I quite like

MARCO!! do NOT let them pull you in, BE STRONG!!

On the subject of Vic the Pric, his cunning 'gameplan' (attempt to coax others into not voting for you) also carries potential repercussions in terms of formal warnings from Big Brother. One yearns for the genius complexity of yesteryear, and Bloodless Lipped Nick's "peeshes of paypeh with naymesh on it"...
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
23:43 / 01.07.04
Wait, how many warnings does Jason have now? Ummmm....
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:45 / 01.07.04
I'd be amazed if Victor or Jason got booted for discussing nominations. How to manipulate the voting is their only topic of conversation, and if the three strikes rule was being enforced they'd both have been out a long time back.
 
 
Triplets
23:45 / 01.07.04
On Ganesh's pro-metrosexual parade. The guy likes being the Alpha intelligent gay around here and if BB reverts to uniform heteroness then he loses his area of expertise, and thus his audience (you).

Game plan, game plan.
 
 
Ganesh
23:51 / 01.07.04
Wait, how many warning does Jason have now? Ummmm....

I was just wondering that. Isn't this his third one? Or is Big Brother putting the 'talking about nominations' warnings in a separate category from general warnings?

I always thought if a housemate was stirring up enough trouble they'd just run with it - but as the whole Kitten debacle showed, take the piss enough and they are eventually forced into taking action. A mealy-mouthed halfway option would be to isolate one of them in the bedsit for a while...
 
 
Ganesh
23:53 / 01.07.04
On Ganesh's pro-metrosexual parade.

"Pro-metrosexual"? Wash your mouth out! Let's call it 'pro-choice'...
 
  

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