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Big Brother 2004

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15:55 / 22.06.04

Poor Jason. There's nothing people won't project onto him.

18:19 / 22.06.04

Poor Jason. There's nothing people won't project onto him.

Oh, absolutely. It destroys me that a chap can't slather his arsecrack with chocolate spread and invite another chap to lick it off without foul-minded people making something dirty out of it.

And they've ruined that beautiful word 'scat' too...

19:38 / 22.06.04

20:01 / 22.06.04

Hah, yes. I noticed that too. Eeeeeevil!

20:14 / 22.06.04

I just feel that Jason’s behaviour is being misinterpreted. I don’t think he is more homosexual than he is heterosexual. I think he’s narcisexual, orientated towards the love of Jason. The fact that he acts all ‘deep’ with Dan simply reflects the fact that that is the best way to get respect/love/attention from him. Similarly, being cheeky and irrevent is the best way to get whatever it is he feels he can get from Vanessa. If there was a shallow posh bloke in the house and a “deep”, thoughtful girl, he would probably switch round.

I simply don’t think his behaviour in the house is evidence of genuine homosexual desire, or any genuine sexual desire at all. It simply shows that he is able to adapt his behaviour to manipulate those around him. So when I speak about projection, I'm talking about people reading Freudian depths into the man which I don't really believe are there.

20:27 / 22.06.04

Oh, I agree that Spambo's primarily narcissistic, sexually, but there's also part of him that seems to yearn for intimacy with another human being (ie. he may fetishise his physical appearance and require lots of positive attention from others, but I don't think he's exclusively narcissistic or exhibitionistic). I'm not sure that I necessarily think he's more homo than hetero either (he may indeed be, as he claimed/retracted, quite genuinely bisexual); his own account of his sexual history, however, suggests that the hundreds of encounters with women have proved uniformly unsatisfying - and he is openly curious about being penetrated ("I'd really like to be a woman for, like a weekend, to see what a female orgasm's like... I'd really like a stiff penis inside me.") Whether or not this would translate into his becoming gay, I have no idea; it would appear, however, to be the obvious next step in terms of exploration...

And the "Freudian" overinterpretation? Well, Big Brother is, in its entirety, a public psychodrama, and much of its appeal lies in picking one's way through it. I don't think I'm reading too much into Jason, but then, I was breast-fed (ho ho).

To me, the likelihood of someone being so fantastically at ease with their sexual body language that they could use it sufficiently flexibly to seamlessly manipulate those around them on 24-hour television is rather more remote.

Goodness Gracious Meme

20:30 / 22.06.04

meep. I'm finding (the representation of) Jason's interactions with Vanessa to be really creepy. Going on about fantasising that she's 17, and he could be her father, and then swooping for a hug, which her body language is yelling that she doesn't want to give.

J: "I just want a hug, what's wrong with that?"
V: "Well, you've just been talking about me being 17"

The pushy physicality is icking me out as well, seems really manipulative...

Goodness Gracious Meme

20:34 / 22.06.04

And Oh God. Poor Nadia.

20:40 / 22.06.04

I'm finding the Jason/Vanessa stuff creepy too, but at least partly because she's managing the situation so badly (to put it mildly). Mixed messages aplenty.

Goodness Gracious Meme

20:45 / 22.06.04

Yeah, but it's tricky, I think.

He's couching so much of it in 'it's a joke! See! Let's cuddle up and have a laugh...' terms. It's an extremely effective strategy, as to stop it she has to start yelling/make it serious.

Granted, she is sending somewhat mixed messages, but more and more she's seeming out of her depth....

21:08 / 22.06.04

Granted, she is sending somewhat mixed messages, but more and more she's seeming out of her depth....

I suspect that, to a certain extent, they both are. I think they both have a lot invested in how they appear to the Great British Public, and keeping one eye on the cameras is warping things (more so for the Spamster whose 'rough play' is, I'm forced to agree, increasingly akin to that of a chuckling date-rapist). I can't help but wonder whether desperation is playing a part too: she because she's aware she needs to do something interesting to avoid eviction (as Stuart and Michelle, the rrromancers, have done); he because he's bought into Victor's Alpha Male bollockry and is also, I maintain, 'trying' heterosexuality again (hey, if you do it hundreds of times, it's gotta work out eventually, yeah?)

Brrrrr...

Never thought I'd say this, but in the Diary Room footage, I'm actually warming (slightly) to Marco...

Goodness Gracious Meme

21:40 / 22.06.04

I agree there's something horribly desperate about J's leaping, it seems *so* forced/awkward... I think there's queerness there, and that playing a 'straight'man is taking its toll.

He's seeming ever more irritable/ill at ease. But he's still pushing himself, almost literally at points, on Vanessa.

Still, she'll be gone next week, and might be breathing a sigh of relief, at this rate.

Wonder if he'll drift back to Dan..? Although the 'gang' he's formed with Victor might well get in the way... Their behaviour towards Nadia I'm finding pretty repulsive...

Goodness Gracious Meme

21:43 / 22.06.04

But yes, V did >specifically mention how she felt Shell had been 'welcomed' by one of the groups in the house, she's obviously feeling isolated and is perhaps wanting the 'ally' she gets in Jason but not so keen on the package that involves....

21:51 / 22.06.04

Irritated by Shell earlier, when BBLB mentioned the Toilet-Seat Sprinkler, and showed her immediately deciding (on the basis of fuck-all evidence) that it was Ahmed. She clearly considers him dirt-ee...

09:18 / 23.06.04

pointless and uncalled for

09:29 / 23.06.04

I haven't watched more than a total of maybe an hour of BB5 but I am absolutely addicted to this thread. I'd watch it endlessly if only C4 would run a banner of this thread on screen. I bet you could deliver some excellent live feed.

09:51 / 23.06.04

Nobody's Girl, those are great pics, but I don't know if they really compete with the image they showed the other day of Jason grunting and lifting weights, as reflected in the distorty-mirror in the garden.

Speaking of flashbacks, how could I have missed that Dan-Kitten exchange first time round ? Thank the lawdylawd for the repeat; "No Kitten, the reason you'll experience prejudice is because you've got a big mouth," followed by a look of genuine surprise. How the others didn't all laugh, I don't know...

I'm glad that other people feel Jason's ongoing stuff with Vanessa's kinda creepy. If I'm watching the show on video, FFWD gets hit almost as soon as I see him moving towards her in 'that way'... shudder.

yawn - thing's buddy

13:27 / 23.06.04

want jason and victor to fall out.

14:28 / 23.06.04

Or make out...

yawn - thing's buddy

15:00 / 23.06.04

gies a human 'slotimin' pyramid or sumhin.

15:47 / 23.06.04

his own account of his sexual history, however, suggests that the hundreds of encounters with women have proved uniformly unsatisfying - and he is openly curious about being penetrated ("I'd really like to be a woman for, like a weekend, to see what a female orgasm's like... I'd really like a stiff penis inside me.

Oh. Fair enough then. I hadn't heard that quote. As for the uniformly unsatisfying experiences with women, maybe it's cos they're all like Vanessa. Also, with the minimal amount of time and effort he must have invested in each, acheiving any kind of satisfaction may be unlikely. Maybe it's spreading himself too thin that's his problem.

15:49 / 23.06.04

want jason and victor to fall out.

Don't think that'll happen. I don't think either of them really wants to force the other's hand.

16:13 / 23.06.04

As for the uniformly unsatisfying experiences with women, maybe it's cos they're all like Vanessa.

Well, while I think Vanessa's handling his 'advances' badly, I hardly think she's the nub of the problem. And, if he's expended the time and energy seeking out several hundred South Lanarkshire Vanessans with which to pursue unsatisfying sexual encounters (which I think is unlikely, given that Vanessa's responses are likely to be mediated by being on television, so somewhat difficult to duplicate), then that in itself might ju-u-ust about suggest 'issues' with women.

Also, with the minimal amount of time and effort he must have invested in each, acheiving any kind of satisfaction may be unlikely. Maybe it's spreading himself too thin that's his problem.

Maybe, but if he were actively interested in relationships with women (and, as I've said earlier, he seems to be crying out for not merely attention but intimacy - albeit mainly from males thus far), then it wouldn't have taken much of a learning curve to sort this out.

I don't think he's interested. I think he's more naturally intimate with men (possibly because his relationships with women are complicated by the need to be perceived as a studmuffin) and is curious about assuming what he perceives to be a more 'passive' sexual/gender role (object rather than subject, penetrated rather than penetrator), but is too caught up in his Victor-inspired Alpha Male persona to act on this, or even articulate it beyond joking and 'what if' speculation.

16:59 / 23.06.04

if he's expended the time and energy seeking out several hundred South Lanarkshire Vanessans with which to pursue unsatisfying sexual encounters...then that in itself might ju-u-ust about suggest 'issues' with women.

Maybe. What sort of 'issues' did you have in mind?

17:31 / 23.06.04

Sorry, I get like this sometimes. What exactly do you mean by 'women', Ganesh? Just ignore me.

18:24 / 23.06.04

Um, okay. Je t'ignore

Hmm, Nadia (with a little strap-on creativity) might be the one for Jason, after all. Especially if he's eggbound...

The Natural Way

20:25 / 23.06.04

Don't think that'll happen. I don't think either of them really wants to force the other's hand.

I originally misread "hand" as "hard".

It's better that way.

21:04 / 23.06.04

Watching this evening's Big Brother, I'm noticing Victor reprising his bizarre 'advisor' role where purportedly hetero relationships between housemates are concerned. He did this individually with Stuart and Michelle (all the while pathetically claiming, in the Diary Room, that he could've 'ad 'er himself - if he'd really wanted - and he's the sinister svengali pulling the strings) and, today, he did it with Spamlet and Vanessa, only with both supposedly 'rrromantic' parties present. Vanessa points out that Jason's a grumpy, ill-mannered arseviolin unless he wants a "hug" (where "hug" means "tactile acknowledgement of my towelling-wrapped erection"), the BeSpammed One argues that it's essentially her problem, and Prictor jumps in with the not-hugely-constructive speculation that her misperception of the situation arises from "being around wankers" and tarring all men with the same brush.

Jason, naturally, laps it up, closing ranks with his intrusive, inappropriate Jungle Twart against the possibility that the fucken' no-tail might actually have made a valid point about his behaviour. Wankers.

Victor really needs to go. His pigshit-thick fantasy AlphaMaleVille is highly toxic to insecure little men, and it's facilitating Spambo's fucked-upness quite spectacularly.

21:09 / 23.06.04

Actually, Victor being such a stereotype, I can't help wondering whether Jason's buying into the myth of black male potency/heterosexuality (Scotland is, relatively speaking, quite Caucasian, and the Spamster won't have come across many such individuals) - and unconsciously attempting to ape/leach some of Vic's (notional) power...

Goodness Gracious Meme

21:16 / 23.06.04

Agreed on the extreme ickiness of the V/J/V triangular moment. Yuckuuck.

and he and J's dynamic is loathesome.

22:08 / 23.06.04

Got to say, though, when Victor's with members of the house other than Jason, he comes across as a much nicer bloke. Witness his late night chats w/ Marco, Stuart, Michelle and Nadia. And that's not something that I think you could say about Jason.

I'm all about hating Jason at the moment. Really struggling to see any decent qualities in him.

22:12 / 23.06.04

Oh, and I thought the "being around wankers" comment was about the rest of the house, rather than a wild guess about Vanessa's previous relationships with men.

22:26 / 23.06.04

Got to say, though, when Victor's with members of the house other than Jason, he comes across as a much nicer bloke. Witness his late night chats w/ Marco, Stuart, Michelle and Nadia.

I don't think I've seen these late-night non-irritating Victor chats - other than possibly the Stuart/Michelle ones, and that dynamic has an odd quality for me; it's as if Victor, having been unable to have his Alpha pick of the females, is happy to assume an oddly voyeuristic role in their burgeoning relationship. I agree that he's generally better around women, though; when he's with Jason or Ahmed (and sometimes with Stuart sans Michelle) the Jungle Twattisms start leaking out. And whenever he's in the Diary Room, I find myself wanting to smack him in the face with a big bit of wood with a nail in it.

And that's not something that I think you could say about Jason.

I think it's something that could've been said about Jason in the first one-to-two weeks. I think the difference is that, while Victor makes ludicrous Diary Room pronouncements about his relatively oversized prowess with the ladeeez, he rarely does so in the house itself, and is generally reasonably appropriate around women (give or take a couple of teaching-Kitten-to-suck-eggs style comments); Jason, on the other hand, has a glaringly poor grasp of what is and isn't appropriate behaviour where women are concerned. Victor talks the talk (in one-to-ones with Jason and Big Brother) but (mercifully) doesn't follow through on the pantomime misogyny; Jason, on the other hand, attempts to walk the walk - with tragi-queasy consequences.

I'm all about hating Jason at the moment. Really struggling to see any decent qualities in him.

I must admit I'm struggling to see the appealing vulnerability he was able to exhibit in the first few weeks. He's largely metamorphosed into Sullen Scotsman.

22:30 / 23.06.04

Oh, and I thought the "being around wankers" comment was about the rest of the house, rather than a wild guess about Vanessa's previous relationships with men.

Not sure I'd agree. Which male housemates d'you reckon were being accused of providing the tar for Vanessa's overbroad brush?

23:13 / 23.06.04

The better side of Victor does only tend to come to the front when whatever group he's talking with is made up of more than just het male company. It's entirely possible that he's just uncomfortable in those groups, though, and the Victor talking to Stuart and/or Jason is all there is - I admit, he might be holding back in other conversations. It's a bit difficult to tell when the times I've seen him chatting with anyone other than Jason has been during the live shows, when the bulk of the discussion is sliced out "for legal reasons".

Re: the wankers comment. I'd read it on the site first, and come to the same conclusion as you, but hearing him actually say it on the round-up show gave it a slightly different slant. Because Jason had been saying how everyone else in the house acted like kids, blah, blah, and Victor's comment to Vanessa seemed to follow directly on from that, it just seemed to put a different slant on it, I thought - that he might be taking Jason's remarks about the others, mixing it in with Vanessa then saying that she thought Jason was talking about her behind her back, and saying that no, you shouldn't let how some of the others in the house have acted towards you make you think that every time somebody's short with you it's because they've got a problem with you personally. The obvious link would be the Nadia/Vanessa agro, but I guess it could apply equally to anyone who Vanessa's made no attempt to get along with (so, at least half of the house).

If he *was* saying no, you shouldn't let how you've been treated by men before make you think that every man's like that, then I'm not sure where that came from. Well, other than Stupid R Us.

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