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Big Brother 2004

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Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

10:26 / 18.06.04

Just a quick note and I haven't even read everything yet, bur re: Nesh saying Jason the Spambot cuts a tragic figure,

Vanessa gets nominated, talking at the end of the garden with Shell. We are given the BEST SHOT EVER on BB, as it pans back and we see Jason standing (with his back to the two girls) striking a pure comic book pose (which seems to be one of his main assets, to me) of grief and despair, but simultaneously like he's flexing his muscles. So sad.

Then Vanessa ran past him completely ignoring all his efforts. If anyone can find a picture of this, please do. I love that that's how Jason reacts to things, he's just so wildly ineffective, I picture him striking various appropriate poses at significant moments throughout the house to try and catch people's attention.

10:27 / 18.06.04

Faaaack!

Bastard internet connection just wiped out my entire post.

Yawn, you seem to be contradicting yourself. One minute you're agreeing that Ahmed's comment could offend, the next you're talking about the BB fishbowl and my especially sensitive mates. Also, surely talk of "brushing off" and "questioning" tacitly allows for offensive having been taken.

If your point is that Ahmed's comment isn't super offensive, then, yes, I agree - I might have made a bit of a meal of it in my last post.

Completely agree about taking him up.

Regrettable Juvenilia

10:31 / 18.06.04

I thought she came off rather well there:

Snow: "Some people would say this proves you're all just a bunch of talentless fameseekers."

Kitten (good-humouredly): "Well yeah, we kind of are..."

10:37 / 18.06.04

Really don’t know what Jason’s problem was with the dancing, must have been the other stuff building up or something.

Jason's problem with the dancing was:

a) It represented a direct, contemptuous challenge to the paternalistic authority he'd (inappropriately) assumed. In other circumstances, I suspect he might've let it all drop, but he and Victor had been winding each other up all evening in terms of 'proving' their supposed Alpha Maleness, and the stakes were high. In front of an audience, including his fellow Jungle Twat, it was too much defiance to go unchallenged.

and

b) It represented a direct, contemptuous (although this wasn't necessarily Marco's intention) challenge to his sexual persona - which, as we know, is already shaky/ambiguous. In the same way as homophobic queer-bashers are often unconsciously externalising/projecting their disgust at an inner same-sex-attracted part of themselves, Marco's queeniness probably ignited a flashpoint. If Jason had been hanging out with Dan and becoming more comfortable with gentle examination of his sexual ambiguities, it might not have made him as angry; as things stood, he'd been indulging in aggressively-hetero ("get your tits out for the lads") panto-hardman self-definition with Victor. Again, stakes were high.

yawn - thing's buddy

10:43 / 18.06.04

Boboss:

contradiction acknowledged - but thats what happens when you begin to alter your argument as a result of seeing someone elses view. (not always, but in my case, some inconsistencies in my choice of words has bubbled up)

but this is getting complex cos there are now many variables I'm unaware of (level of sensitivity among yer pals, personality types of yer pals etc.) so...

basically if your sensi-fem-pals were in the fishbowl, I'd be able to understand their hurt - but I'd still bemoan their bitching if that was their course of action.

basically aye - wasnae super offensive (although Whiskey Priestess may disagree)

Like you, as you know, I'd prefer that the slight was tackled head-on, at the time if possible.

Fly - agreed: hilarity was as a result of the spillover, virus like into Chanphwoarneuse, and the new role for Kitten. She makes me feel like I'm back at school, watching all this shit as a teenager,

11:03 / 18.06.04

we see Jason standing (with his back to the two girls) striking a pure comic book pose (which seems to be one of his main assets, to me) of grief and despair, but simultaneously like he's flexing his muscles. So sad.

I'm finding him an absolutely fascinating character at the moment, almost (VICTORISM ALERT!!) Shakespeareanly flawed ('Spamlet'?) It strikes me that, not only is his posturing absurdly proto-superheroically operatic, but he's cheesily literal in terms of using body-related metaphors to describe his inner world. He talks about how he's physically "falling apart" or "losing definition", and it strikes me that he's always lacked definition from a psychological standpoint: adopted (cannot define himself in terms of biological family); rootless (training to be an air steward - so geographically baseless); sexually-ambiguous (said he was bisexual "just to get into the House" - rrriiiight, has reportedly shagged hundreds of women but doesn't feel close to any of them, and - according to the tabloids - is crap in bed). He's clearly a bit shit with women generally (I think he can't decide whether he wants to ape idealised 'romantic/sexual love', be mothered or be protective of them). His persona is, it seems, defined primarily by those (men) around him; the clumsy, Alpha Fuckwit stylings appear to be the result of homosexual anxiety inspired flight from being Dan's buttock-buddy to Victor's fellow wannabe Krayboy.

He's the classic unhappy little boy lost in a big man's (Sparmoured) body - and you just know it's not gonna work out for him, especially if he goes the time-honoured West Coast hardman route. I actually feel oddly maternal/paternal toward him; the doctory part of me wants to enfold him and kiss/analyse it all better. I find myself empathising with Dan.

Fuck. I think I'm developing White Knight Syndrome...

11:06 / 18.06.04

Boboss:

Anyone else think that Victor's rage wasn't anything we haven't seen before, a few days earlier? I'm not sure, but I suspect my strong initial reaction to his behaviour on battle-night was amplified by the war-like context. I mean, he let Stu "remove him" with minimal resistance - hardly the reaction of a man intent on the kill. 'Snot to say he wasn't rather cross, just perhaps that he wasn't quite as dangerously cross as some have suggesed.
Jay, on the other hand, he does worry me.

My thoughts exactly, especially after last night. Where Victor seems to feel some amount of shame about his reaction to Emma's baiting, Jason has come out of the previous night's blow up without learning anything about himself at all. There was something seriously nasty about the way that he was using precisely the same language when talking to Victor about their gameplan (sorry, but their words, not mine), still defining others in the house as animals and the like, just as he was immediately before he went loopy with Marco.

Victor's was pantomime rage - still not particularly pleasant, but not likely to go anywhere. And yeah, it was exactly the same as the last time he and Emma launched into each other. Designed to keep pushing the other person even further to the brink of violence, all in the knowledge that they're in a situation where that's impossible.

On the other hand, Jason's increasingly looking like a very nasty fucker indeed. He's shown little to no empathy towards anybody other than those Spambettes he's already collected - Vanessa, Shell, Victor - and appeared genuinely pleased that his reaction to Marco's idiocy provoked an even bigger ruck. Vain, self-centred, and lacking in any sympathy for other people unless he has something to gain from it.

Love how Emma is being painted as a nutjob and the program-makers themselves aren't taking any responsibility for the other night. That "make love not war" shot was less poignant, and more deeply cynical.

11:21 / 18.06.04

Jason has come out of the previous night's blow up without learning anything about himself at all. There was something seriously nasty about the way that he was using precisely the same language when talking to Victor about their gameplan (sorry, but their words, not mine), still defining others in the house as animals and the like, just as he was immediately before he went loopy with Marco.

...

On the other hand, Jason's increasingly looking like a very nasty fucker indeed. He's shown little to no empathy towards anybody other than those Spambettes he's already collected - Vanessa, Shell, Victor - and appeared genuinely pleased that his reaction to Marco's idiocy provoked an even bigger ruck. Vain, self-centred, and lacking in any sympathy for other people unless he has something to gain from it.

I don't agree with the "lacking in any sympathy" thing (he's accepted blame/responsibility - at least superficially - talking with Nadia, and also with Stuart, Michelle, etc.) but I agree he's potentially quite a dangerous entity if he continues to take Victor's (by comparison, relatively benignly) clownish power-posturing at face value, and proceeds down the no-win route of attempting to create and bolster some sort of ludicrous Alpha Male position via more and more extreme assertions of (spurious) authority. Already, he seems a far-ish cry from the man who was able to admit his insecurities (to Dan, anyway), and reflect on his emotional frailty. These days, he's looking more and more like he could've sprung from the pen of Irvine Welsh.

He and Victor are bad for each other. Dan's now his last, best hope. Save the Spambot, Dan!

11:30 / 18.06.04

News is that Emma can come back into the house if she and Victor patch up their differences in a private one-to-one meeting first. Can't see that there's much gain in that for Victor so wonder why he should play along.

Also nominations stand but eviction cancelled for a further week to allow housemates to work out their differences. Crank up the tension more like.

11:35 / 18.06.04

Also nominations stand but eviction cancelled for a further week to allow housemates to work out their differences. Crank up the tension more like.

Well, yeah, but I suspect they might also have realised Dan's value as peacemaker, and be leery of letting him go so soon. Seems a bit unfair on him and Vanessa, though.

Tryphena Absent

11:35 / 18.06.04

Snow: "Some people would say this proves you're all just a bunch of talentless fameseekers."

It was Krishnan not Snow. My god man, get your channel4 reporters right.

11:39 / 18.06.04

It was Krishnan not Snow. My god man, get your channel4 reporters right.

Cool. Me and Xoc's New Best Friend...

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

11:47 / 18.06.04

God... they're not getting rid of anyone, are they? Surely they're a little bit behind by now.

I think they should keep all of them in until the end (as they clearly don't want to lose anyone), and we vote for who wins. We can have a fight every Friday instead, or something.

I was thinking though, that if Dan went on Friday, it would (at least more possibly) descend in to chaos so I can see the thinking there.

yawn - thing's buddy

12:04 / 18.06.04

I'm convinced it all blow over, dan there or not.

not evicting them this week? does that mean a double eviction next week.

emma issue:

perhaps BB knows more than we - perhaps emma is the problem and the presentation over the last couple of nights has been skewed for dramatic effect, rather than being an honest account of actual events.

I, like th falcon, would like to know morte about the absurd-looking 'grande shove' by J - what the fuck was going on there?

12:07 / 18.06.04

Ganesh, your posts make BB even more fun that it already is.

Barbelith, we've got to start a campaign to get 'nesh on the couch with Dermot O'Leary.

Ganesh- Big Brother's Little Brother beckons...

12:29 / 18.06.04

Xoc, I think it's pretty doubtful they want a replay of the other night, at least not for the time being - they run the risk of the show imploding.

Changing the power dynamic (eviction) seems like a sure fire way to send the whole thing back to shitsville.

13:01 / 18.06.04

The message from Big Brother was that there would be no eviction tonight and no nominations next week. This probably means a mere postponement of the planned eviction but what I hope will happen is no evictions at all for the rest of the series.

I don't know if that is possible given that the revenue collected from the public eviction phonecalls is huge. Maybe replace this standard BB model with an alternative where the public can influence the house in some way other than eviction through a phonecall poll.

There seems to be a kind of equilibrium that has developed in the aftermath of Wednesday night that would be disturbed by any evction.

13:10 / 18.06.04

Ganesh, your posts make BB even more fun that it already is.

Barbelith, we've got to start a campaign to get 'nesh on the couch with Dermot O'Leary.

Ganesh- Big Brother's Little Brother beckons...

Awww, thankyou, Chicken. Like I say, it's only a matter of time before the Royal College of Psychiatry identifies Media Psychiatry as a sub-speciality in its own right, and the more whorish among us start preening (or at least get our teeth fixed). And, while I reckon I could sooo do that (and who wouldn't like to coucher avec Lovely O'Leary?), I suspect I'd be a bit obsessional and sweary for BBLB...

On the equilibrium: yeah, but it feels more like a skin-deep interregnum. Resentments are simmering away nicely, especially now the clown, the witch and the panto-dame are putting two and two together...

13:22 / 18.06.04

I'm not going to see it for 2 weeks - what will have changed in that time and how many pages will this thread have grown by...?

13:39 / 18.06.04

Where y'off to, Bear? I'm only gonna be missing Big Brother for two and a half days, and I'm starting to panic, Nadia-scouting-for-fags style.

Oh yeah, and it just occurred to me:

If BB interior = Hand HQ, from George Morrison's The Filth,

then

Jason = Max Thunderspam?

13:41 / 18.06.04

'Nesh, I think that's another good example of why the threat of violence from Jason is that much more worrying than the same from Victor - his inability to let things go. Which is just bloody stupid, considering where he is. Dude, it's Big Brother. Did you really think you'd be coming out of it with your dignity intact? You honestly didn't expect to have to dress up like a tit at some point? Oh dear.

13:55 / 18.06.04

'Nesh, I think that's another good example of why the threat of violence from Jason is that much more worrying than the same from Victor - his inability to let things go.

No disagreement there - although I suspect his inability to let things go is a function of the destructive spiral in which he's currently trapped himself, wherein he's pitted himself against those who would consciously diss his authority and unconsciously diss his masculinity. I'd really like to see him break out of that, but I'm getting pessimistic about his chances of pulling out of the descent.

Which is just bloody stupid, considering where he is. Dude, it's Big Brother. Did you really think you'd be coming out of it with your dignity intact? You honestly didn't expect to have to dress up like a tit at some point? Oh dear.

I don't think it's specifically the costume itself (he entered the Big Brother house dressed like a tit, after all, and doesn't seem to have been too bothered about the mascot outfits, etc.); I think it's the fact that he's perceiving it as a conscious singling-out by the Bedsit Two - and, arguably, being made to dress as a pantomime dame could (if one is choosing to invest one's self-esteem in an Alpha Hetero hardman persona) be construed as another dig at an already-fragile sexual identity.

Good ol' Freud reckoned paranoia was a 'defence against homosexuality'. I reckon that's mostly bollocks, but in this case, I think anything that can be framed as impugning Spamlet's laughable Alpha Het persona will feed into his growing paranoia. Which I think is a shame, because that way madness (and possibly physical damage) lies. He needs to get back into the flirtily ego-stroking banter with Dan, but I'm not sure if he can now; I fear he's gonna be eaten away by his own paranoia.

14:07 / 18.06.04

Off to Latvia tomorrow morning, someone text me if the house explodes or Macro starts to mediate and morphs into an animal....

14:34 / 18.06.04

If BB interior = Hand HQ, from George Morrison's The Filth,

then

Jason = Max Thunderspam?

Emma and Michelle in the bedsit = LaPen?

yawn - thing's buddy

14:38 / 18.06.04

George Morrison's 'the filth' is da shit.

yawn - thing's buddy

14:44 / 18.06.04

I think the only way back in for Jason now, is to respond to someone’s affection for him. If he realises he is liked and that people find his demeanour attractive, he will once more be able to tap into a more reasonable persona.

There are hints that Nadia has real affection for him and this may indeed be his lifeline – in more ways than one.

It could gain him partial control of the non-existent harem (ie. If he befriends Nadia truly, the harem will appear to have dissolved) and it could land him a relationship with a trans.

It’s perhaps even more appealing (psychologically and physically) than a go with Dan.

Any weight in the idea that he may want to sodomise Marco by the way?

15:00 / 18.06.04

I think the only way back in for Jason now, is to respond to someone’s affection for him. If he realises he is liked and that people find his demeanour attractive, he will once more be able to tap into a more reasonable persona.

Absolutely. When I mentioned Irvine Welsh, I was serious. One of the (relatively few) enduring pluses of Welsh's writing, for me anyway, is his examination of the emotionally-deprived Scottish Hardman, particularly with respect to psychosexual make-up and the process of transforming sexual uncertainty/ambiguity into outward brutality. In his books, one of the main ways in which such individuals are 'saved' from such a fate is through permission to express tenderness/vulnerability via The Love of a Good Woman - or, in some cases, a Good Man.

In Spamlet's case, either would do - but I think his sexuality (apart from being very tied up in insecure narcissism, and the need to be admired/respected) is slanted toward attention from males. If he really has had a vast number of (apparently mutually) unsatisfying relationships with women, then that'd support this theory. I'm also not convinced his 'bisexual' claim was merely to gain entrance to the Big Brother house; I suspect that, at the very least, he was trying the identity for size.

There are hints that Nadia has real affection for him and this may indeed be his lifeline – in more ways than one.

In many ways, Nadia would be perfect. Female, attractive, exotic, sufficiently admiring, but with at least some experience of growing up male. She might satisfy his hetero and homo elements. I think they'd look quite good together too.

It’s perhaps even more appealing (psychologically and physically) than a go with Dan.

Possibly - but I get the impression he's the kind of straight-identifying male who, if he 'surrendered' to another male, would go the whole hog ie. he'd be Legs-Up Lucy, lying there wide to receive...

Any weight in the idea that he may want to sodomise Marco by the way?

Doubt it. Quite apart from my wanting-it-up-the-jacksie theory, I think Marco represents that which the Spamster finds repellent within himself. I think he just wants to fuck him up.

15:01 / 18.06.04

Off to Latvia tomorrow morning, someone text me if the house explodes or Macro starts to mediate and morphs into an animal....

Nah, I don't think Macro's much of a mediator.

Say hi to Otto from me, though...

15:39 / 18.06.04

they run the risk of the show imploding

Perhaps, yawn, but I think they're doing risk calculations all the time with this format and the plus side is mighty for C4, for whom BB is the yearly guaranteed ratings boost (which is why they were determined not to repeat last year's utter purgatory with the Calvinist, peckerless, lay preacher and the - can't even remember who the others were... ) Biggest BB viewing figures for five years for the highlights show Thursday night. That sells expensive advertising slots and brings in bucketloads of their target demographic.

Didn't we attempt to kick off a little Barbelith Big Brother a few years back. Had we kept it up, see where we could have taken it. Virtual plate slinging, volcanic bickering, but with more syllables.

Remembering that there always is the problem for us terrestrial-bound tv viewers, I expect little Miss Emma Dynamitee may well have seemed much more villainous as events played out in real time. When she's safely caged up in the box in the corner, she's fun to watch. If she was in my face from dawn till dusk I'd be making emmaburgers with Macro-flavoured garnish.

I'm just wondering what I'll have to do to liven up our homelife once Ganesh no longer has this fine entertainment to obsess over. Maybe Bengali can get him into knitting.

15:45 / 18.06.04

Fairy Godfather Dan points out to Spamlet that Nadia quite likes him.

(Obsessing? Moi?)

15:56 / 18.06.04

Emma and Michelle in the bedsit = LaPen?

Victor in the Diary Room = LaPenis?

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

16:07 / 18.06.04

I really love that Stuart is still dressed as a cowboy.

16:29 / 18.06.04

Xoc, I be Boboss!

I know what you're saying, and after speaking with me Mumsy (C4 exec and ex member of the BB team), I'm acutely aware of just how much scrutiny BB is under. Yes, they're after ratings, yes, they want to sell expensive ad space, but they're also terrified that the show will have to be reset - potentially damaging the show's reputation for the long term. Also, there's the legal worries, no one wants a housemate to get a kicking from a fellow housemate - no one wants to get sued (a very real possibility if things were to escalate).

16:34 / 18.06.04

Interestingly, an old friend of Mother's was the Commisioning Editor responsible for everything that made it to air on Wednesday evening.

I'll find out more.

Goodness Gracious Meme

17:42 / 18.06.04

I *heart* this thread. Everyone on it rocks. Perhaps we should market ourselves to Endemol for BB6(*if* there is one) as consultants.

'nesh, we could make use of yr obssessive sweariness by making you 'The Bedsit Shrink'

I guess that, like Yawn, I'm pretty familiar with the Scottish Hardman routine (and Jason, let's face it, is a bit of a soft-as-shite example of the breed) so it struck me as risible rather than dangerous - but I'm sure Jason's sheer physical bulk and bellowed threats were pretty intimidating to those concerned.

Basically, I think yr familiarity/distance from the situation makes it much easier to find it risible. I'm not putting all the blame on Jason, by any means, but I think I'd've found a big angry man shouting at me and getting into my space, threatening violence* pretty fucking frightening.

*I agree that from my living room, it looked pretty pantomime, but if I'd been there, I doubt I'd've been thinking clearly enough to see past appearances.

While I think 'nesh's description of J is pretty spot on, I'm finding it hard to feel as sorry for him. Mainly because his 'apology' was *soooooo* grudging and pathetic.

Several other people - Nadia and Vanessa - 'appeared'* to realise that some climbdown/giving ground on all sides was neccessary to calm things down. Not J though.

Nadia came out of that pretty well, I thought. I'm really liking her right now.

And I'm more and more angry about the way Dan seems to have 'got away' with his comments about Ahmed because he dealt really well with the fight.

*scare quotes due to C4 editorial process.

Oh and a 'security consultant' has resigned from BB, can't find a link atm, but saw this on C4 news.

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