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Big Brother 2004

 
  

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Regrettable Juvenilia
08:08 / 17.06.04
Saw as much of the ruck as was shown live on C4 last night. Fucking. Hell. That was something else, and not a very fun something else either. Felt slight nausea myself afterwards, that shaky feeling you get after watching a real fight (almost) kick off... Suddenly a lot of jokes made over the last few weeks or so seemed a lot less funny.

What was really terrifying was the lack of intervention - call me crazy but when you have enormous meathead Jason yelling "You won't see it coming! It's not a threat, I'll fucking take your head off!" at Marco and Nadia (and Emma?), maybe you should start calling people to the diary room then? And once it becomes incredibly obvious that Emma and Victor are both this close to throwing a punch, you need to do MORE than just call one of them to the Diary Room... I suspect the behind-the-scenes people were as surprised by anybody at how quickly it all kicked off and turned nasty, but still - I have this vision of that bespectacled ginger-bearded guy in the wooly hat, sleep-deprived, probably a bit stoned, sitting staring in horror at a display screening thinking "what the fuck am I supposed to be doing now?". And what was really disturbing was the way they cut to an external view of the house during the worst of it, whilst at the same time you could hear smashing crockery, screams and shouts... It's like someone realised they couldn't actually show a physical fight live but hadn't twigged that they should intervene to stop it...

Best coverage so far has been on ILX (scroll to the bottom and go back up a bit). It's claimed there that what Emma said to Victor was "A joker like you trying to act like a black man?", which is appallingly fascinating if what she meant was "You are all mouth, I am calling not only your masculinity into question but also your sense of racial identity which is probably bound into that" - which I actually think is more likely than a simpler, more obviously racist meaning.

Stuff I've not seen mentioned: last night Emma was claiming Victor pushed her in addition to throwing the wine; Shell said something like "if he hits you once, he'll hit you again" - okay, I feel worst for Shell, because apart from anything else I think the ground got pulled out from under her when she saw the hulking men supposedly on 'her side' look ready to start punching women in the name of the cause.

Dan demonstrated that he's one of the few people in there who has any idea in the slightest how to handle it when things kick off. Okay, I'm sticking to my opinion that he can have a bitchy side now and again, but since the Bedsitters came back I think he's behaved well - not only calming Emma down whilst being sympathetic to her, but earlier, trying to reason with Vanessa about the (2nd so far) food-fight by pointing out what kind of situation the Bedsitters have been in and that everyone has different ways of letting off steam. It fell on deaf ears though:

Dan: "They've been cooped up without fresh air for days..."
Vanessa: "Well if they like fresh air so much why not respect nature (rispict nigh-chur) a bit more?"

My emnity for Vanessa has only increased: "I'm too good for this programme!" I cannot wait to hear her try to spin last night's events into something that makes Jason look like a White Knight rather than an enormous twart, and puts the blame squarely and solely on the Harem.

Michelle and Stu are suddenly back ON with more enthusiasm on his part than previously seen, 'cos that's one of things people do in a crisis...

I will be so unbelievably fucked off if Emma is gone but Jason and Victor remain in the house. But that raises a huge problem: if those two are made to leave and Emma, Nadia and Marco are left in, there'll be a whole other outcry; if they kick out more than just Jason and Victor we're talking a serious depletion of housemates and possibly viewers; if they keep everyone in... well, surely they couldn't just stick 'em all back in with severe warnings, tell Victor and Jason they're on yellow cards, and hope for the best?

I reckon they might, y'know.
 
 
Bear
08:15 / 17.06.04
BB website has been updated now, Emma is back in the bedsit calming down - not sure where they can go from here.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:17 / 17.06.04
And these people have NOT been psyche-tested properly, have they? AT ALL.
 
 
Bear
08:20 / 17.06.04
I don't think there's anything seriously wrong with any of them, you seem similar things all the time in pubs. Although like I said I haven't actually seen what went down so maybe it was worse than I imagine.
 
 
electricinca
08:20 / 17.06.04
Well Big Brother have put up the official report of what happened on the website.

It doesn't mention anybody being removed from the house other than Emma who contrary to reports of her being sectioned and taken to hospital, spent the night in the bedsit.

BB has reaped what they sowed by putting such volatile characters into the house and then subjecting them to a variety of stressful situations.
 
 
Nobody's girl
08:35 / 17.06.04
Emma was sent to the Bedsit? Why? Victor and Jason certainly seemed to be the worst offenders.

If I were in the house I'd want them out pronto- you just can't allow violence or threats of violence in a situation like that it is unacceptable. Death threats should not be tolerated.
 
 
Nobody's girl
08:37 / 17.06.04
"I'll f***ing kill you," screamed Emma

Ah, fair enough.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:39 / 17.06.04
"Victor and Emma were separated by security..."

Er, no they weren't. They were separated by Dan and Chicken Stu. The spin begins...
 
 
Jub
08:59 / 17.06.04
From the link above:
Then, for the first time in Big Brother history, security entered the House to restore order.

So, um, what precisely did happen with V&E? Were they separated by security or not? Did they even enter the house? Did you actually watch it Flyboy?

It's all terribly exciting.
 
 
Ganesh
09:44 / 17.06.04
Oh, fucking hell. The one night I go to bed early...

It's sounding absolutely stunning: seems like an unholy combination of extreme personalities, overturned assumptions, alcohol, previous nicotine deprivation and, in the case of Spambo and Fagbangle (go on, do your funny little dance), the aforementioned homosexual anxiety (following the failed attempt to bolster heterosexuality via Vanessa-tonguing and subsequent rejection).

I don't think it's fair to cry "psych-tests", particularly when this year's brief appears to have been to generate conflict. None of them is significantly mentally-ill, and the only person I wouldn't have passed (on grounds of possible/probable personality disorder) was Kitten. Actual physical violence is notoriously difficult to predict with any degree of accuracy, so one cannot reasonably blame the psychologists here. As Bear points out, the same 'flashpoints' occur commonly in any environment where alcohol's being consumed.

So. Who's to stay, who's to go?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:47 / 17.06.04
So, um, what precisely did happen with V&E? Were they separated by security or not? Did they even enter the house? Did you actually watch it Flyboy?

As I said, Victor and Emma were initially held back by Stuart and Dan respectively (this bit I saw). Security didn't enter the house until slightly later (once the live feed had been turned off).
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
09:49 / 17.06.04
No, Dan and Stu broke up the fight. As Fly says, the slow reaction time from the Production team is pretty worrying.

Given that they'd:

a)put people through nicotine withdrawal
b)given them loads of booze
c)put Emma/Michelle back in.

And before 'nesh says it, forget about sectioning,eh? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no way that Emma was in 'sectioning' territory. for fucks' sake.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
09:54 / 17.06.04
Blah – before this is lost in the excitement over the fighting I think its worth noting that Dan is really a bit of a cock – and not quite as intelligent as I thought (or at least as ‘worldly’ as I thought). Let me explain.

The pathetic bitching about Ahmed by the blonde girls and the occasional colusion by Dan really is now bordering on the deeply offensive.

Shell declared that before she leaves the house she’d like to see Ahmed do the dishes at least once and this was said within the context of a general snipe about the small Somalian man.

Then came Dan’s rather serious mistake – he said in his snidiest possible voice, "no, but you see, that for the woman to do, that’s the way they like it, that’s what they do in HIS culture."

Realising the massively stupid, ignorant, and genuinely nasty thing he’d just said (cos lets face it, all the other issues in the house pale in comparison when we consider the British and Boer reaction to shock horror, a former asylum seeking muslim) he immediately tried to cover his shining ass by sayng.

"Cos this is Big Brother culture, isn’t it?’ or similarly inane words to that effect.

Dan is a prick – don’t be fooled by his apparent intelligence, cos he’s not even that smart.

So, to the real issue and the one which for me, successfully marks out this BB from all the others:

Ahmed – and the way he’s quite literally stumped the housemates – they really do not know what to do with him. It has encapsulated the asylum seeking issue in Britain perfectly.

Basically, we have no idea how to deal with ‘the other’ in this country. Alcohol can help or hinder the situation – but what if the ‘other’ doesn’t drink?

While I can see Ahmed would rapidly piss me off simply by his constant referral to his amazing debating skills and patter which doesn’t seem to allow other people to join in conversations, generally, I have been stunned by Britain’s ‘young adults’ (this is a programme for young adults yeah?) and their inability to deal with the Ahmed ‘meme.’


ps. Michelle (bedsit) really is a beautiful girl.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:55 / 17.06.04
It's not really the psychologists I blame, 'Nesh - I just have this vision of a BB producer putting a big 'APPROVED' stamp on Victor's file next to where it says "Expresses questionable views on the issue of violence against women." I think the tricky thing is that this year more than any other, they've been trying to create a situation just one tiny level down from the one we got, without it crossing that line...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
09:57 / 17.06.04
Marco's delight at the return of his bestest allies Emma and Michelle spilled over into a dance of "disrespect"

Did anyone see this happen?

"Dance of disrespect". Again, almost certainly serious C4 editorialising, but great phrase.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:59 / 17.06.04
yawn - You're right, I had forgotten about that in the wake of the Fighty-Fight, but again I'd say Vanessa was worse. Dan's "that's his culture" remark was patronising, offensive etc but it paled in comparison to her response:

"Well tough, he's in our culture now!"
 
 
Whisky Priestess
10:01 / 17.06.04
Dan = slowly becoming my hero. Love the accent, for one.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
10:03 / 17.06.04
aggg. Did she really say that?

Fucking hell.

'Our' culture, given that she's a South African on a UK gameshow, presumably being white culture.

Yee-uccch.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:03 / 17.06.04
The internet tells me that today Jason is trying to make friends with Michelle, and distance himself from Victor. Also: Jason is very "Whoa I had a load to drink last night, What happened? Did Nadia flip a table over?"

I don't think that's gonna wash, mate.

I wish I hadn't just changed my name so I could do it now to incorporate the words "Dance Of Disrespect".
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
10:11 / 17.06.04
but it's a given she's wrong about life.

she had a maid for fucks sake!

dan, considering his height, sexuality, camp voice etc - he should KNOW about culture and diversity.

dan is such a disappointment. I had high hopes for the twat.

to be honest, Jason, who apparently shouldn't know how to deal with 'pakis' cos a lack of them in Lanarkshire, is one of the few who will not resort to stereotypes about muslims or older men when discussing Ahmed. He never joins in with the barely disguised race-hate.

fly - the issue here, and I'm not trying to hijack this thread and turn it into a debate solely about asylum seekers in this country, is the inability for British culture (as represented by the housemates) to integrate the only recognisable foreigner.

Nadia's foreigness is lost in a transexual storm, and well, the portuguese have never really been hated in this country, even if they are dangerously Arab-looking from time to time.

Marco is extracted from the pefect foreigner - Italians (anyone realised quite how obsessed the British are with Italy?)

But Ahmed - the little cunt wants to rape blonds doesn't he?

consider the lambasting Ahmed has taken for some not very serious misdemeanors.

"One rule for us.

And you, well you'd better do as you're told or.....well, just get out the fuckin country ya fuckin ragheid."
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
10:16 / 17.06.04
na, that's really not gonna wash.

and Fly, indeed. But it would get tres confusing with severl DofD's wandering around.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
10:24 / 17.06.04
Yawn:

it doesn't follow that because someone's gay, they magically have in 'in' to issues of diversity that don't affect them. At All. I wish it did

D's comment is dumb, and bad.

I still think Vanessa's is worse. Saying 'she has a maid' is a bollocks argument. Privelige doens't automatically equal bigotry, or mean we should be less bothered about it.

I do agree, though, on Ahmed's presence in the house being very illuminating. It's not just cultural/faith-based, it's also age. Suspect if he were a 20 year-old student on asylum he might actually 'fit' alot better. In that he'd just join in with the 'me, me'/extrovert/extreme behaviours...
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
10:35 / 17.06.04
bengali:

my 'maid' argument was a short-cut - thought you'd realise. I'll give you a full description of why I don't think she's capable of reasoned thought if you want but I think you probably already know.

also: dan re. my comments - again a short cut - he's displayed enough intelligence so far, and expressed enough sentiment about diversity and tolerance regarding sexuality that it's reasonable to expect a sensible apporach concerning Ahmed could be garnered from his brain.

but no.

It is accepted (by most) that Dan is diplomatic, intelligent, mature, chilled.

It is accepted (again, by most) that Vanessa is intolerant, impatient, unfriendly.

It is for this reason that it is both more shocking and disappointing that Dan has said what he said.

So, no, bengali, you’re not right to dismiss my argument with a ‘bollocks’ or a ‘tosh’ as you have done on a couple of occasions now.

Don’t let your emotional respect for Dan get in the way of his smallness of mind.

if this is not the case, please excuse my patronising advice.

In all other instances:

Take it.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
10:35 / 17.06.04
Also you're suggesting that because he's gay, he somehow 'should' be better at dealing with Ahmed, you're placing a burden of responsibility on him more than on Vanessa. And that's bullshit.

Also: "dan, considering his height,"

whaaaaaa?
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
10:40 / 17.06.04
you seem to be repeating yourself.

also, taking things out of context and not dealing with the main thrust of an argument seems to be your forte.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
10:41 / 17.06.04
Sorry, it's yr posting style. Makes me want to dismiss/disengage. It's not easy from my posish to tell when yr being serious or sarcastic. Sorry for being dismissive. From where I'm standing sometimes the message gets lost under the style..

Okay, I see your point re context. Will probably want to think about this one. I'm still not convinced D's is *worse*.

Much more common, and much more typical of British culture, and much more insidious.

True, and I take yr point about V being much less sympatico, but I'm still not convinced its *worse*
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
10:42 / 17.06.04
ffs. that was just an additional point. Above, I've tried to deal with yr saying.
 
 
Warewullf
10:45 / 17.06.04
Fuck me, that was wild!!

And you download it all from here!!

 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
10:47 / 17.06.04
and yes, I'm repeating myself slightly, but you're not taking *my* points on board. comfort with sexual diversity is not = to comfort with racial diversity. and vice versa.

And i'm not inside yr head, so I don't know when yr taking short cuts/not.

If you want to climb down off yr high horse slightly, I reckon there's an useful discussion to be had down here among the plebs.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
10:48 / 17.06.04
re: my posting style.

it's more to do with your own perception rather than any latent sacasm on my behalf, I think begali.

I've presented a resonable argument in pretty straightforward language.

as for the 'tall' comment, you may be surprised to realise that tall people (6foot5 and upwards) really do encounter social difficuties.

I'm 7' 2" - ask me. (this bit could be loosely termed, 'sarcastic', I suppose)
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
10:53 / 17.06.04
bengali - first sign of losing an argument is to ally yourself with some supposed group of others.

'the plebs' for example.

incidentally, i shall not be joining you.

Also, if you read my posts you will see I have addressed your arguments re: tolerance.

anyway cant be arsed with this. i think you're being a bit daft in your responses to me.

I was trying to talk about BB housemates being flummoxed by Ahmed but you've decided to dissect my posting style.

good luck to you doll.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
11:01 / 17.06.04
(Turns out that Ahmed was in bed while all this was going on. After security came in, he told Dan that it was too late for the story to make the morning's papers. Dan said it probably wasn't. Ahmed went back to sleep.)
 
 
Bear
11:03 / 17.06.04
Warewulf - your link doesn't work, FIX IT!!! Please
 
 
Nobody's girl
11:11 / 17.06.04
Damn it! The BB website keeps knocking me back. Presumably because they've got so much traffic. I think it's safe to say the ratings will be doing very well from this incident.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:15 / 17.06.04
I dunno - I'm 6'5, and I don't have any social problems, or at least none that I can attribute to my height. Problems with hearing small people, and in fitting into seats on crowded buses, cinemas and theatres... it's not exactly 911 is a joke, though.
 
  

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