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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Big Brother 2004

  
  

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Ganesh
11:10 / 20.07.04
I'm asking the wider question: why do we, as viewers, apparently care so much about the specifics? It's a recognised Big Brother phenomenon, to the extent that tabloids have offered financial inducement, in years past, for the first (opposite-sex) couple to "have sex" onscreen - meaning, one assumes, engage in penetrative cock-fanny interfacing. It's a uniquely British thing too; other nations' versions have just got on with it.

I'm genuinely wondering why it's such a big thing for us. Personally, it makes me feel faintly pathetic.

(And I didn't say I was bored analysing the Spamster; I said I was reluctant to repeat myself.)
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
11:55 / 20.07.04
I think in this instance, with Stuart's seeming desire to hold things off until they're both out, it makes the act something a bit more than "oh look, they've shagged".
It looks like they have... but she could have meant that she gave him a blow job.

Whether they do or don't have sex doesn't affect me greatly but it could play with the dynamics within the house. Which is a sight more interesting than watching Michelle get her fanny filled.
 
 
Ganesh
12:10 / 20.07.04
I guess it could have an effect on the Mollusc/Stu dynamic (making her more smug, him less coherent) - and, at a stretch, exacerbate insecure/envious Jungle Twat posturing (with voyeuristic thigh-rubbing from Vic, in particular) - but I'm not sure it'd hugely affect things beyond that.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
13:25 / 20.07.04
Doesn't The Sun have a fifty grand award standing for the first Big Brother couple to get it on in the house though ? And seeing as they're all ostensibly on the show for the cash in the first place, won't Michelle and Stuart's financial windfall, if they a) have actually had full penetrative sex ( I'm not sure if a blow job's really good enough for the Currant Bun, ) and b) are prepared to admit it ( and what are the chances of Cthulthu girl not shouting it from the rooftops, bearing in mind her stated ambition to be a Page 3 girl ? ) prompt a fit of avarice-fuelled lunacy from the rest of the housemates ? And from Victor especially - If the mollusc and Stuart have swapped fluids, he's been bested not just sexually, but also financially, and also in terms of his ability to " play the game, " and I wouldn't be all that surprised if he took it quite personally. At least, here's hoping.
 
 
Ganesh
14:13 / 20.07.04
Well, if it's the same as last year's tabloid deal (as mentioned three or four posts above this one), it's got to be "full sex" (by which I mean penis-vagina penetrative - they specified it couldn't be anything same-sex) and it's got to be on-camera...
 
 
Ganesh
14:22 / 20.07.04
And no, I don't think "avarice-fuelled lunacy" would ensue. I'm sure all the housemates - including Victor - have been well aware of the tabloid pimp-offer (and its doubled-edginess), but sex in the Big Brother house is something that's either going to happen for one or it isn't; it's not especially amenable to 'game-playing'. I doubt anyone would seriously feel they'd been "bested" if Stu and Michelle were to shag on-camera. I also don't think anyone (with the possible exception of Spamboy) would envy them the resultant publicity...
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
14:50 / 20.07.04
I'd do it on national telly for fifty grand... hell I've done it for much less.
 
 
adamswish
14:58 / 20.07.04
but there has already been full-on hetro sex in the big brother house.

That god awful teen version (where I think they test run some of the ideas for BB5, i.e. mixed bedrooms) had an amourous couple giving into lust infront of the night vision cameras.

Didn't see the Sun hand out the cash for those guys...
 
 
Ganesh
15:00 / 20.07.04
Sssslut!

(Gah! In-betweeny posting! That was for the whoretastic RawkusBoi...)

Yeah, that's true. The teens shagged, as teens do. Distinctly underwhelming, wasn't it?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:02 / 20.07.04
he certainly isn't experienced in intimacy with women or, for that matter, female body language (witness the unbelievably clumsy manhandling of Vanessa).

But that would make sense- if you've slept with hundreds of women than you've probaby just had hundreds of one night stands and few actual relationships. It fits in to Jason's general attitude, his need to be admired fleetingly and have oodles of attention poured over him. When you're just pulling someone for one night you don't need body language, you expect an obvious come on.

Assuming he is bisexual than he's in denial and frightened of it and from experience when you feel like that you don't let people in, you just screw people for affirmation. It's not a terrible thing, it's just an attempt to come to terms with being inbetween which is frightening and horrible and easy to deny. On some level I get Jason but I dislike him because I think he's weak and refusing to deal with himself and mostly because he insults someone so open and brave with a far bigger secret than him. Better that he'd been straight all the way through than start to lie. He's making his own molehill in to a mountain. The fact that I'm so happy to judge him probably makes me a far more horrible person than him. I love Nadia because I think she's brave and amazing and I wouldn't advertise my own sexuality, never mind a sex change to that many viewers but I approve of her because she never told them and I understand that more. I know that feeling when you stand with people and think, these people are okay, I should just tell them but the time is never right. Once people know, why tell them differently? Jason's just scared, scared, scared. I can see it in his face all the time. He's scared of himself and he has to create himself in the mirror over and over again and because of that he scares me. He shouldn't have gone on to BB.
 
 
Ganesh
15:26 / 20.07.04
But that would make sense- if you've slept with hundreds of women than you've probaby just had hundreds of one night stands and few actual relationships. It fits in to Jason's general attitude, his need to be admired fleetingly and have oodles of attention poured over him. When you're just pulling someone for one night you don't need body language, you expect an obvious come on.

Nah, I reckon that even supposing his claimed hundreds of shags were simply that - shags entirely shorn of any social or personal context - he'd have gleaned some experience of women's behaviour, even if it was limited to how women behave in sexual situations. I think Jayboy's clumsiness with Vanessa was of a different measure: I think it was more reflective of relative inexperience of women. I do agree, though, that any forays he has undertaken into the Scary World of Fucken' Chicks have likely been wham-bam affairs characterised by zero intimacy and, I suspect, comparitively little enjoyment.

To reiterate: I think Jason's sexuality is a complex one, dominated by narcissism ie. the fetishisation of his own body. Labels like 'gay', 'bisexual' and, indeed, "100% heterosexual" are a tad inadequate as descriptors for those whose sexualities are primarily fetishistic. Jason gets turned on by admiration, sure, but who does he want to be admired by? And what, if anything, does he desire/need beyond admiration? Does he want his audience to be a passive or interactive one? Do his fantasies extend beyond being an object of others' desire?

I believe his verbal claims to be a powerfully sexual subject (that which desires and 'does-to') are rather unconvincing compared to the obvious ease with which he inhabits the role of sexual object (that which is desired and 'is done-to') - and this is one reason I think he's curious (whether consciously or unconsciously) about the role of passively-sexual recipient ie. stereotypically, fuckee rather than fucker. I think he was experimenting with this in Week 1, when he was having 'everyone's bisexual' conversations with Dan and displaying his sphincter at every possible opportunity. Oh yeah, and subsequently musing on what it'd be like to be a woman and be fucked by a penis.

In short, I think his identification with the role of sexual object extends into curiosity about being sexual recipient. Having come in contact with VicWorld, however, there's now no way he can possibly admit this - hence his shameful backtracking on the bisexual claims.

I wish him luck in his future career as a flight attendant, though. Wonder how many female colleagues he's gonna have to publicly maul to prevent people thinking he's gay?
 
 
electricinca
17:18 / 20.07.04
Nah, I reckon that even supposing his claimed hundreds of shags were simply that - shags entirely shorn of any social or personal context - he'd have gleaned some experience of women's behaviour, even if it was limited to how women behave in sexual situations. I think Jayboy's clumsiness with Vanessa was of a different measure: I think it was more reflective of relative inexperience of women.

I have to disagree Ganesh. I don't believe he would have necessarily gleaned any experience of women's behaviour from having had hundreds of shags. That would presuppose he has an interest in women other than as a place to stick his dick, they may as well be inanimate objects to him. I can imagine he has mirrored walls and ceilings in his bedroom so that he can watching himself fucking and admire himself in the act.

His clumsy fumblings with Vanessa is probably exactly how he is outside in the real world. It's just that there are enough women that would respond to it in a positive way (particularly if drunk) that he could get plenty of sex with different people. If someone doesn't respond immediately he'd move on to someone else. He'd never need to learn a better technique of seduction than his usual caveman routine.
 
 
electricinca
17:28 / 20.07.04
Who goes? You decide.

Dan, Jason, Nadia or Victor?

I don't think it comes as a surprise to us that it's this four up for eviction and based upon the results of last week's eviction poll it will be Victor or Jason.

Of course Jason wasn't up for eviction last week but Victor was and he got about a quarter of the votes whereas Dan and Nadia each got less than 5% of the vote. Unless there is a huge upset this time around I think we'll see similar numbers but with Jason in place of Ahmed who got the majority of the vote.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:33 / 20.07.04
Jason and Victor being up together might work in their favour by splitting the vote.
 
 
electricinca
17:44 / 20.07.04
All Change

Slick Vic is so used to seeing the ladies of the House in all their naked glory that he's become impervious to their charms - and is hoping that Big Brother will send in some new ones.

Michelle has reduced Stuart to a "lap dog," he insisted. "He's just lost his masculinity for me...he just gets told what to do, pretty much."

He only wants new women in the house because the ladies there ain't taking no deliveries from the milkman.

I agree that Stu "gets told what to do, pretty much" but he's proved that he can put his foot down when he needs to. Maybe I identify with Stu too much and so I'm imbuing him with some of my traits but I think he's pretty laid back and is willing to lose the little battles as they are meaningless in the long run.

I'm thinking Vic's macho bullshit is all for show anyway I'm sure he's been pretty much like Stu in relationships. But he'd tell his mates down the pub that he keeps his lady in line and she does what he tells her.
 
 
Ganesh
20:07 / 20.07.04
That would presuppose he has an interest in women other than as a place to stick his dick, they may as well be inanimate objects to him.

I think he's also interested in them as a) desiring audience, and b) prop to heterosexuality (especially if he perceives them to be good-looking a la Vanessa). I'd imagine that sticking his dick in them - if he does that at all - is largely secondary.

I can imagine he has mirrored walls and ceilings in his bedroom so that he can watching himself fucking and admire himself in the act.

Mirrored walls, yes. Ceiling, no. I suspect he's too insecure to watch himself fucking. I don't think he fucks that much...

His clumsy fumblings with Vanessa is probably exactly how he is outside in the real world. It's just that there are enough women that would respond to it in a positive way (particularly if drunk) that he could get plenty of sex with different people. If someone doesn't respond immediately he'd move on to someone else. He'd never need to learn a better technique of seduction than his usual caveman routine.

Well, he would because the more women he behaved like that with, the higher the statistical likelihood that he'd attract a sexual (or, given his temper, physical) assault charge. With Vanessa, his 'clumsiness' and inability (for someone so body-orientated) to read body language bordered on physical coercion - and that happened in the knowledge that howevermanymillion people were watching. The fact he's not a convicted rapist suggests to me that he hasn't been involved in hundreds of drink/women/sex situations.

I'm also thinking back to my own experiences of Scottish one-night-stands. Even in the most cattle-markety of Central Belt pubs, it's necessary to actually speak to the women concerned before taking them away for rrromance (or emotion-free fucking). Irritating beasts that they are, some of them have a habit of talking afterwards too, and sometimes even hanging around, standing in the way of the mirrors.

My point is, I find Jason's story unlikely - partly for the reasons stated above, partly because I don't reckon semi-rural Scotland's big enough to allow that degree of anonymised shagging-bordering-on-rape without someone, somewhere noticing, and partly because it doesn't fit Jayboy's motivations (as I see them). It's as important for him to have an attractive woman on his arm as in his bed, probably more so.
 
 
Ganesh
20:16 / 20.07.04
Jason and Victor being up together might work in their favour by splitting the vote.

Possibly, but if last week's six-way-split was anything to go by, Victor's at least five times as unpopular as either Nadia or Dan - and there's every indication that Spambo's even more unpopular - so even splitting the vote would, I think, leave Vic and Jason with the Jungle Cat's share.

There's the added bonus that whoever goes (and, let's face it, it's gonna be Jason) is gonna know they're the least popular of four.

Interesting that Dan's not-hugely-convincing "I won't stay to the end" bluster is now apparently working against him...
 
 
Ganesh
21:44 / 20.07.04
He only wants new women in the house because the ladies there ain't taking no deliveries from the milkman.

Interesting that both he and the Spamulet have made the same request. All very much a JOKE!!! I'm sure, but it's notable that none of the women has, to my knowledge, said anything similar about the remaining males.

It's kinda a function of VicWorld, though, that whole sub-Bond film adolescent approach to women: far better when they're voiceless lads' mag eternal come-on fantasies; real women serve, like, no function, especially if they don't fancy you.

I agree that Stu "gets told what to do, pretty much" but he's proved that he can put his foot down when he needs to. Maybe I identify with Stu too much and so I'm imbuing him with some of my traits but I think he's pretty laid back and is willing to lose the little battles as they are meaningless in the long run.

Yeah. I think he's laid-back-verging-on-dull, though, and I wonder whether, when he looks back on his time in the Big Brother house, he'll regret having allowed himself to be linked so indelibly with Michelle, and spent so much time following her Buffalo Bill instructions...

I'm thinking Vic's macho bullshit is all for show anyway I'm sure he's been pretty much like Stu in relationships. But he'd tell his mates down the pub that he keeps his lady in line and she does what he tells her.

I'm not entirely sure to what extent Victor's macho crap is for his benefit (self-esteem bolstering), how much is for the benefit of other housemates (securing his prime position among insecure Gamma Males) and how much is on-camera mugging aimed at us, the viewers. I'm not sure Victor's sure.

I think you're right; he's probably relatively passive in his relationship. If he does the same degree of twattish posturing outside the house, I expect she's fairly skilled at directing him in a way which at least half-indulges the fantasy gangsta bollocks.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
23:10 / 20.07.04
I'm sure all of the housemates - including Victor - have been well aware of the tabloid pimp-offer...

This is sort of the point. If you're the kind of shameless attention tart who's happy enough to be filmed for ten whole weeks doing nothing in particular except getting pissed, sunbathing, and being made to look like an utter clown in front of four million people by Endemol, on the basis that you might win a hundred grand and get a ghost-written column in The Sunday Sport, isn't the tabloid pimp-offer going to look like something worth fighting for ?

It's not especially amenable to " game-playing. "
I'm not totally sure what you mean about this. The " game, " I'd've thought, is to win Big Brother and then go on to being paid a disastrous amount of money by the tabloids for your nebulous interviews once the whole thing's over, and that's really it. In that sense, having sex on the show seems like the best possible move a housemate could make.

For what it's worth, I don't think anyone went on Big Brother this year, or any other, to come to terms with their sexuality, or anything like that. They went on Big Brother so they could appear in The Sun, ideally host a series on Granada Men & Motors, Channel 5, Channel 4, QVC, and that, I'm guessing, is apparently the lot.
 
 
Ganesh
23:30 / 20.07.04
This is sort of the point. If you're the kind of shameless attention tart who's happy enough to be filmed for ten whole weeks doing nothing in particular except getting pissed, sunbathing, and being made to look like an utter clown in front of four million people by Endemol, on the basis that you might win a hundred grand and get a ghost-written column in The Sunday Sport, isn't the tabloid pimp-offer going to look like something worth fighting for ?

If it were, then I daresay we'd have actually have witnessed the occasional Big Brother contestant actually fighting for it. The fact that, in the last two years, no-one (other than a hormone-raddled adolescent on the teen version, which I don't reckon counts) has done it suggests that it's not quite the draw you maintain it is.

I'm not totally sure what you mean about this. The " game, " I'd've thought, is to win Big Brother and then go on to being paid a disastrous amount of money by the tabloids for your nebulous interviews once the whole thing's over, and that's really it. In that sense, having sex on the show seems like the best possible move a housemate could make.

I mean you can't "fight" someone into bed (well, you can, but if you do it on national television, it generally leads to arrest) and you can't particularly "gameplan" someone into bed either. If it happens (both parties being, one assumes, raving exhibitionists who're utterly secure about having full penetrative sex on-camera, and sufficiently unconcerned about any partners/children/relatives/friends/employers watching, now or in the future), it happens. I don't think it's uppermost in the housemates' minds.

For what it's worth, I don't think anyone went on Big Brother this year, or any other, to come to terms with their sexuality, or anything like that. They went on Big Brother so they could appear in The Sun, ideally host a series on Granada Men & Motors, Channel 5, Channel 4, QVC, and that, I'm guessing, is apparently the lot.

Yessss, but why are they so keen on fame - even such low-key, fleeting fame? Public validation. Why such a need for public validation? We get into more underlying/secondary reasons - which are likely to differ according to personality, background, life experiences, blah blah blah. I'm not saying Jason got up one morning and consciously thought 'I'll enter Big Brother as a means of experimenting with my sexual identification' but I do think it was part of the bigger picture.
 
 
Ganesh
23:39 / 20.07.04
Hmm. I'm surprised no-one's overheard the Jungle Twats' ineffectual scheming before now. The fact that it was Shell who eavesdropped - and who is later getting 'married' to Victor - lends the whole things a Bluebeardy quality.

Vic, for his part, has promised Jaylord he's going to tell people what time it is today. Which is nice of him.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
10:09 / 21.07.04
According to today's Star ( though I should be watching the show I know, and not just reading about it like some kind of dilettante, ) Jason " has admitted he went on Big Brother because he was seriously depressed. "

If this is true, ( and it does seem a fairly un-jungle-cat-like thing to admit to if it isn't, ) the mind does kind of recoil in horror as to his mental state once he leaves. Never mind in about six months time. Given that Endemol aren't exactly renowned for their caring, hands-on treatment of their former contestants, and that after his performance, he's going to stuggle for a while to even go to the shops without being called a wanker by someone, it does seem like Jason should have thought about all this a LOT more carefully.
 
 
Ganesh
10:12 / 21.07.04
I think he's taken solace in the comforting testosterone fantasy of VicWorld, and when Victor's no longer around, he's going to slump again.

One might, of course, posit all sorts of reasons for why he might, at this particular juncture of his life, be depressed...
 
 
Warewullf
10:45 / 21.07.04
From the offical site:
it's the Slick Man who's got the biggest hump in the House.

Shouldn't that be rump?
 
 
Ganesh
11:00 / 21.07.04
He is indeed the Rumpback Whale.

And, in a different corner:



Somewhere after midnight, in his wildest fantasies...
 
 
electricinca
11:16 / 21.07.04
I do hope Jason wasn't "seriously depressed" before he went into the house as his psyche will be a whole lot worse afterwards. I don't think Endemol would have allowed him into the house if they suspected he really was suffering from depression as is implied.

I do despair with the Jungle Cats. Jason has been a lost cause for weeks but Victor who I believed could have had a chance at winning this show even with his ineffectual 'gameplan' has totally lost it.

You'd think he'd never watched the show before with the lack of awareness of how to play the game he displays. By maintaining the Jungle Cat grouping long past it's sell-by date when The Harem was all but destroyed he's distanced himself from the other housemates and made himself an outsider. As an outsider he will certainly get nominated for eviction and his constant bitching and whining sessions with Jason doesn't endear him to the voting public. When he gets evicted he'll have brought it upon himself the eejit.

Also the thing about not being able to shave himself is just bizarre.
 
 
Ganesh
11:36 / 21.07.04
I think when he says "serious depression" Jason's talking about chronic low mood in the context of situational angst, rather than the 'clinical/endogenous' variety that I'd consider severe. Early on, in conversation with Dan, he talked about being adopted and not feeling any real closeness to his adoptive parents, never having had a satisfying relationship, the emptiness of his sexual encounters - and the fact that, despite having worked to develop and style his appearance, he never felt truly secure or happy in/with himself. Dan made some comment along the lines of "by the time you're thirty, you really ought to know yourself, have sorted this shit out", and Jason reflected that yes, there were aspects of himself he really had to look at.

This was, of course, pre-VicWorld, when Jason was still halfway capable of honest self-reflection. I'm pretty sure that Dan's attracted to men at Jason's particular crossroads, and would've continued to gently encourage this sort of difficult Selfawarian examination. 'Twas not to be, however. Kitten got the heave, Jason's anxiety got too much (possibly because food-chucking Marco was still prancing around as an alternative example of What It's Like To Be Gay), and the comfortingly paranoid cliches of VicWorld beckoned.

Dan clearly still likes Jason - he nominated Shell instead, for fuck's sake - but, I think, recognises he's something of a lost cause while Victor's still in the house. VicWorld, while it ultimately won't fill Jason's hole (ho ho), is a highly seductive meme for insecure, vulnerable men; far easier than asking oneself difficult questions. And Jason's likely to face eviction this Friday, so a possible opportunity has been lost. I'd also expect Dan's mood to slump after Jason's departure. If he's ever gonna make good his vow to walk from the house, it'll be soon afterwards.
 
 
Ganesh
11:51 / 21.07.04
Also the thing about not being able to shave himself is just bizarre.

Indeed. Anyone else reminded of The Colour Purple?



Torrrn between two lovers....
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
12:03 / 21.07.04
Waaaaaait a sec... I really missed out on that one.

This show still manages to baffle me!
 
 
_Boboss
12:33 / 21.07.04
what? what? victor doesn't shave himself, but gets others, not even ladeez, to do it for him? is this related to the 'uuurrrr, wanking...y'mean,like touchin me own bits an that? no way, that's for poofs'

what a fucking freak
 
 
Ganesh
12:40 / 21.07.04
Maybe it's a prison-bitch thang.
 
 
_Boboss
13:03 / 21.07.04
yeh, vic's like addibisi (only not gay, obviously, at all, alright?) and jayboy his prag! 'jockohomo! get over here and shave me'....that's pretty fucking horrible come to think of it.
 
 
Warewullf
13:18 / 21.07.04
What. The fuck. Is that about?

Why the fuck isn't he shaving himself? Who normally does it for him, his mother?

Just when you think he couldn't be more annoying...
 
 
Alex's Grandma
13:25 / 21.07.04
Possibly because food-chucking Marco was still prancing around as an alternative example of What It's Like To Be Gay

Yes, I think Marco's presence would be more than enough to put anyone off anything really. Actually, on reflection, it's no wonder Dan went out of his way to insist he only slept with straight men.

What I still don't get about the Spambot's psychology though ( and yes, it all adds up otherwise, the " depression, " the arse thing, the narcissism, the arse thing, and in particular, his uber-macho mates from his hometown, ) is, why didn't he just move to the city ? Even for such an unredeemable attention junkie, the Big Brother house seems a very weird place to be trying to sort out your various issues, unless he really did just drift in there with no apparent thought... You know, I think I actually feel quite sorry for him now.
 
 
Ganesh
13:57 / 21.07.04
Actually, on reflection, it's no wonder Dan went out of his way to insist he only slept with straight men.

Dan's always insisted he sleeps only with straight men, and I don't thi-i-ink that was merely a 'getting on the show' gimmick. I'd agree that Marco would be faaar from his type.

What I still don't get about the Spambot's psychology though ( and yes, it all adds up otherwise, the " depression, " the arse thing, the narcissism, the arse thing, and in particular, his uber-macho mates from his hometown, ) is, why didn't he just move to the city ?

Well, there's some evidence that he was trying to escape Smallville. He was supposedly training to be an air steward, a job which would've taken him far afield geographically, and also brought him in contact with a relatively large number of gay men. Perhaps this represents an attempt to manoevre himself into a situation whereby he's away from any pressing need to present himself as macho-heterosexual, is likely to excite admiration from males, and would provide a sufficiently 'tolerant' environment to experiment with sexual self-labelling?

Even for such an unredeemable attention junkie, the Big Brother house seems a very weird place to be trying to sort out your various issues, unless he really did just drift in there with no apparent thought... You know, I think I actually feel quite sorry for him now.

I oscillate between pitying Jason and feeling irritated by him. I can only imagine that Big Brother appealled to his vanity - a twisted way of 'getting away from it all' while maximising public attention. I don't think he thought it through properly (possibly in the same way as people on The Jerry Springer Show don't seem to have thought through the possible repercussions of exposing themselves emotionally on primetime TV) and I wonder to what extent it'll set him back. I suspect the fifteen-second paparazzo bursts will sustain him for a little while, but ultimately he's gonna be back where he started.
 
  

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