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Big Brother 2004

 
  

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Olulabelle
21:30 / 15.07.04
Very true. It was funny/sad/disconcerting to watch him, in the space of one second, look so horrified about the man reference, realise the potential for viewer judgement, assess the situation and then quickly try and cover it all up with a joke.

That and the "You're all boring, I'm the life and soul of the party but er...running around naked...er...well you first then." conversation he had with the other housemates, who then nicked Dan's trousers and generally capered around like silly children while Victor looked on and...

...buttered crackers.

Crickey. Bring him on, the rock and rolling, party-going, entertaining SEX machine. Because buttering crackers just ROCKS, don't it?
 
 
Ganesh
21:33 / 15.07.04
[vic] We Jungle Animals need to get OUT there and start. Buttering. Some. CRACKERS. [/vic]
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:34 / 15.07.04
I remain unconvinced. To me, at least, a lot of his diary room performance there seemed to be just that - a performance - and intentionally so. His immediate reaction? I thought he grinned.
 
 
Ganesh
21:40 / 15.07.04
We'll agree to disagree then, E Randy. I think a lot of Victor's Diary Room stuff is a performance (albeit a semi-sincere performance I seriously think he's attempting to believe), but his response to the 'Power of Love' lyric was too immediate to be staged - and even making that '"love" + "man" = ewww' connection so knee-jerk split-second quickly is quite a feat. Again, it suggests to me that 'ewww' was his (bizarre) gut reaction.
 
 
Ganesh
21:58 / 15.07.04
Aaaand, for anyone who hasn't yet had their fill of adolescent male sex/power fantasies:

Jason talked up Ahmania. "Youll probably have your own calendar," he suggested, alluding to Ahmed's popularity in the outside world.

"You should do some pornos," said Jay. "A grand an hour, banging busty babes. You last for five hours," he said of his buddy's unlikely sexual prowess.

"If they're all virgins, I'll do it for free," Ahmed sniggered.

"Banged by the straight talker," chipped in cheerleader Victor, not helping the already unsavoury image.

"You cannot do five hours after coming from here," love-god Ahmed advised. "You need exercise first. Like when you're starving you get full quickly."


Wowsers. Grizzled-but-foxy ladeekillers all, eh?

(Incidentally, you've gotta love the way Spamboy's appropriated Dan's experience of having acted in a porn movie, heterosexualised it, and become an instant authority on the subject. Both he and Victor are secretly - or not-so-secretly - in awe of Dan's Big Gay Cock...)
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
22:04 / 15.07.04
One of the only things I find endearing about Victor is his playing to the camera in teh diary room. I like how he confides in "us" the viewers about his schemes and his plans.
Thats what everyone should be doing really, it's not like BB is gonna tell any of the other housemates.
He's playing the game like he's always played the game. I just don't like the way he plays it in the house.
I'm waiting for the knife in the dark with Jason too, he's totally aware it's him or Jay up next and I don't think he'll be doing anything to stop it. In fact with all his manipulating of the Nadia/Jason fued I think he's quite aware that Jason may be one of the only people he'd be safe being up against eviction with.
 
 
Olulabelle
22:28 / 15.07.04
[vic] We Jungle Animals need to get OUT there and start. Buttering. Some. CRACKERS. [/vic]

Ha ha ha, I truly just scared the bejesus out of my dog because I laughed so loud at this!
 
 
Ganesh
23:23 / 15.07.04
For a couple of self-proclaimed "straight-talking" heavyweights who disdain being 'falsely' friendly to people's faces, they don't half bitch on, and on, and on about people behind their backs...
 
 
_Boboss
07:33 / 16.07.04
victor kinda let me down last night. sheesh.
 
 
Spaniel
08:05 / 16.07.04
You might have set your expectations just a little too high, but I kinda know what you mean.

I think the nominations have really got to him. Interesting what that say's about all his game-plan bluster.
 
 
Spaniel
08:13 / 16.07.04
What is it with me and the fucking apostrophes this morning?

I'm completely with Ganesh re Vic's little outburst in the diary room. Sure he smiled, but there was nothing in it to indicate jolly larks.
 
 
Spaniel
08:58 / 16.07.04
Also, I think we need to put his behaviour in context.
This is a fella who feels threatened by eviction, othered by many of his housemates and is hell bent on reinforcing his status as a MAN and a HETEROSEXUAL.

And I'm afraid I ain't gonna buy allegations of self parody. I mean, just the fact that he read the song as a potential sexual jibe suggests something about his character.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:34 / 16.07.04
I think it was clearly a joke, but it was a homophobic joke...

The most annoying/depressing/boring thing about Victor in particular and also Jason is that they cannot stop talking about the show itself now. Switch on the late-night live stuff and all you get is these two endlessly, pointlessly, erroneously speculating about how they're perceived, who'll be out next, etc. GET LIVES, boys.
 
 
Spaniel
09:45 / 16.07.04
Really? Clearly a joke? A joke with very blurry edges if you ask me.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:53 / 16.07.04
Remember that I'm not one of those people who think saying "it's a joke!" makes everything okay and takes away any serious intent. Of course it has not just blurry edges but nasty, sharp, aggressively/defensively macho-het edges...
 
 
Spaniel
10:19 / 16.07.04
I know, I know. I just want to make sure that's clear to everyone.
 
 
_Boboss
10:32 / 16.07.04
yeh for fucks sake how on earth did you forget that about flyboy? bitch
 
 
Spatula Clarke
11:27 / 16.07.04
Beginning to think I must have fallen asleep and dreamed the entire episode. Seeing as everyone else disagrees with what I thought was going on, I guess I must just not have been watching properly or something.

I'm still not quite sure, mind. I can't see even the most homophobic people I know reacting at all to somebody reciting lyrics from The Power of Love to them, especially in the context of producing a dating agency intro vid. That's just such an obscure and astonishing thing to get offended by.
 
 
Ganesh
11:48 / 16.07.04
I can't see even the most homophobic people I know reacting at all to somebody reciting lyrics from The Power of Love to them, especially in the context of producing a dating agency intro vid.

But how many people would even make the apparently-instantaneous lyrical connection that 'love' and 'man' = 'ewww'? That's my point: it wouldn't even occur to those of us who aren't constantly twitchy about possible (insinuations of) poovery. The fact that Victor immediately made what is, frankly, a truly peculiar mental link is what makes it homophobia in, perhaps, the purest sense. The fact that he may have then parlayed it into a JOKE!!! is neither here nor there, really.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:11 / 16.07.04
Argh - Randy, I agree with you in that I'm sure Victor thought he was being funny and absurdist, *but* when you put his comment in within the context of everything else happening in the show, the way he and Jay are behaving all the bloody time now, it seems very telling.

Gambit is a cheeky chien.
 
 
Spaniel
12:14 / 16.07.04
You're right Gambit.

Straight talkin'!

Thas the way forward.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
12:43 / 16.07.04
Fly> The first bit of my post might have come off sounding a bit twatish. It wasn't meant to.

when you put his comment in within the context of everything else happening in the show

Has Victor demonstrated a homophobic attitude previous to this, though? (Note: I'm not saying he hasn't, I honestly can't recall.)

'Nesh> I think it is possible to make that bizarre connection if you're playing a character, or if you've got your wits about you (in this case, you could recognise the lyric from the first two lines and know what was coming up in the following two). Of course, the question then becomes how much you're playing that character and how much you're turning into it.

I understand the point about his making the connection at all being the indicator of homophobia, and whether the outburst was a joke or not being relatively unimportant next to that, but there could be explanations for that other than the one being put forwards. I'm not sure that Victor has demostrated insecurity about the perception of his sexuality before this (unlike Jason) and that's why I'm looking at the alternatives.

I really need to see it again, because the reaction here honestly makes me think that I wasn't paying attention.
 
 
Ganesh
13:01 / 16.07.04
'Nesh> I think it is possible to make that bizarre connection if you're playing a character, or if you've got your wits about you (in this case, you could recognise the lyric from the first two lines and know what was coming up in the following two). Of course, the question then becomes how much you're playing that character and how much you're turning into it.

I disagree; IMHO, that's a reeeal stretch. I think Victor's was a really idiosyncratic response (which doesn't even make sense in terms of the song lyric) that appeared instantaneously. I don't think it's about "wits" or being in-character (and, as I've said previously, I don't think Victor makes terribly clear distinctions between characters and self - so I don't think it was a clear-cut 'this is not the Real Me' situation in the first place); it's about attempting to rescue a gut reaction.

And no, I don't think he's been particularly homophobic in the sense of being openly hostile or unpleasant about gay people. I do think he's homophobic in the sense of being incredibly anxious about the concept of homosexuality (to the extent that much of his waking life is devoted to establishing, for the benefit of all concerned, that he's not only utterly 100% heterosexual but uber-heterosexual - he's evidently so repulsed by the thought of being touched by a man that he doesn't touch his penis himself, but seemingly wears it to a bloodied stump "banging women"). Also, his conversations with Kitten and about Dan (or rather, Dan's cock) suggest that his knowledge of the Queer Other is cobbled together from urban myth, stereotype and his own lurid imagination.

So, yeah, I think he's homophobic in the sense of being afraid of (yet fascinated by) homosexuals and homosexuality - specifically, the possibility that anyone might, for the merest nanosecond, consider him homosexual (and, presumably, penetrate his macro-arse).
 
 
Spatula Clarke
13:32 / 16.07.04
Okay, I never saw his interaction with Kitten - I found her so deeply frustrating that I just couldn't watch while she was on - and stuff about Dan and self-cockophobia has also passed me by, so maybe I'm missing some context.
 
 
DaveBCooper
13:53 / 16.07.04
Was anyone else vaguely appalled/amused by the way it took 2 or 3 of the lyric-quotes before someone said ‘hey, they’re all song lyrics’ ? I know the people coming out and saying them were a bit bewildered and inaccurate, but still, I thought they were meant to be cool and happening young people…
 
 
Spaniel
14:03 / 16.07.04
Randy, Gawd luv ya mate, but how the crikey could you have failed to notice, and contextualise Victor's incessant droning about his (hetero)sexual prowess?
Fer cry-eye, the guy's in a house full of self confessed (if somewhat crap) bi-sexuals, queers, and doll men and he won't shut up with the het-power talk...
 
 
Spaniel
14:06 / 16.07.04
Dave, are you joking?

Ahmood? Happening?
Jayfun? Happening?

Er.
 
 
Ganesh
14:11 / 16.07.04
Then again, perhaps Vic's just covering his arse. Which'd take a lot of het-talk...
 
 
DaveBCooper
15:28 / 16.07.04
Oh, they're groovy jungle hepcats, no mistakin. Ahem.

And is Victor really 6'1" ? That claim took me by surprise...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:52 / 16.07.04
how the crikey could you have failed to notice, and contextualise Victor's incessant droning about his (hetero)sexual prowess?

Oh, I'd seen it, but I'd just not put it into that context. Put it this way: I don't really understand why, in a house full of supposed bisexuals, doll men and queers, anyone would feel the need to stress their impressive stat-het-ics to that degree, unless they're in a Spambo-style situation where their sexuality is up for question. You just know that Victor's one of those numpties who acts in exactly the same way outside of the house and in exclusively straight company. Does an attempt to reinforce your superheterosexuality have to imply a fear of misidentification?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:56 / 16.07.04
I aim to have put my thoughts into a coherent post by page 50 of this thread.
 
 
Triplets
16:37 / 16.07.04
The strangest makeover couple has been Victor and Jason.

Jason gave Victor a wet shave, then silently trimmed his 'tache and beard as if they were auditioning for roles in a French art-house movie.


Would've been good if Jay had given him a full-body wax and plucked the hairs from his arsehole.
 
 
Triplets
16:47 / 16.07.04
Auds

Ganesh being spot-on since Day Zero about Victor. Read the first line of his audition. Alpha-Shaft fly-talking with a side order of street style with a dab of blaxploitation arrogance straight up in the sheezy fo' heezy.
 
 
Madman in the ruins.
19:26 / 16.07.04
Spambot just said about Nadia. "She's got more strengh than most men......stocky"


Has'nt the penny dropped yet?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:43 / 16.07.04
Why would it?

The audition stuff is an example of what I mean re: Victor and his posturing - that the alpha male guff is the norm for him, and not necessarily a reaction to the environment he's currently in and people he's with.
 
  

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