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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Big Brother 2004

  
  

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Ganesh
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23:45 / 14.07.04
[shell] Yes, you're completely correct. They're all horrible. There's no point in watching such horrible people. [/shell]

*continues watching*

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Jub
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06:13 / 15.07.04
I've been away for *one* day and the thread grows this much! Jeez.

yawn - agree with you about Victor. I too am surprised by this thread's reaction to him, as I think he's a hoot. The reasons for not liking him just don't convince me.

Current betting is as follows (acc to betdirect.net)

Nadia 9/4
Daniel 5/2
Michelle 3/1
Stuart 9/2
Victor 7/1
Shell 15/2
Any Other (2) 40/1
Ahmed 33/1
Jason 33/1

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Bear
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07:09 / 15.07.04
So the gossip of the moment is that Ahmed will be given the option of picking someone to be evicited with him, I guess he'd pick Michelle if it's true.

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Ganesh
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07:47 / 15.07.04
And I'm surprised Victor's considered a "hoot" (the reasons for not disliking him just don't convince me) - but I guess it's that subjectively-placed entertaining/irritating line again, the one Ahmed crossed weeks ago.

I'd be incredibly surprised if they allowed Ahmed to pick a second evictee. That'd seem to shade into extreme unfairness...

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Bear
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08:23 / 15.07.04
They are evil you know.

I watched it for the first time in awhile last night and really don't like Vic and Jason I think they're actors, shape shifting actors...

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Ganesh
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08:33 / 15.07.04
There's Big Brother being evil, and there's Big Brother allowing one housemate to be chucked out of the house - no nomination, no Judas Kiss, no bedsit, no questions asked - on the arbitrary whim of another housemate.

I think it'd be perceived incredibly badly by the public, and Big Brother's always been sensitive to that. I don't think it'll happen.

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Ganesh
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08:44 / 15.07.04
"It's not me that was getting my nipples out on TV, was it man?"

Says the uber-narcissist who walked into the Big Brother house in a jockstrap, spent the first few weeks baring his sphincter to anyone who'd look, and rarely missed an opportunity to coax the house's 'gay man who just sleeps with straights' to massage his arsecheeks.

Is that Selfawaria on the horizon? Nahhh, just a mirage.

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Jub
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08:48 / 15.07.04
Uh oh - they're going to get naked if Ahmed's evicted...
"We'll be jolly entertaining if we stay!" chirped Shell.


Fair enough Ganesh - but I suspect that's partly due to the editing. Look at how the housemates treat him. He gets on well with all of them in different ways (excpet Nadia) - even Marco has been saying what a good chap he is.

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Ganesh
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08:58 / 15.07.04
Fair enough Ganesh - but I suspect that's partly due to the editing.

I think it's due to the fact that most of the housemates are, in effect, receiving an edited version of Victor - since they're not privy to his risible Shaft bollockery in the Diary Room or his incessant paranoid bitching with Jason and Ahmed. On the one occasion that other flatmates did catch a glimpse of this 'unedited' version - from the bedsit - it kinda changed their opinion of Victor (to put it mildly...).

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Jub
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09:47 / 15.07.04
Well, Michelle seems to have got over it pretty quickly. He wound Emma up, because Emma became so unbelievable wound-up and incensed by him slating her. Michelle of course agreed with Emma, but I don't think she's that bothered by Victor.

He didn't like Emma. For good reason. She wasn't really a favourite with the veiwers either. Certainly not me anyway. Glad she's gone.

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Ganesh
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09:53 / 15.07.04
Michelle was bothered enough to confide in other members of the Harem that Victor was attempting to influence voting in a two-faced manner. The fact that none of them have taken the 'threat' especially seriously may be more reflective of Victor's negligible aura of Alpha Male power than anything else.

I'm glad Emma's gone. I'll also be glad when Victor's gone. Shame he'll be leaving too late to take with him the paranoid James Bond panto-macho heteromainstream he was instrumental in creating...

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Jub
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10:03 / 15.07.04
so what? I mean who isn't trying to play the game? Your main complaint with Victor seems to be that he's presents an unauthentic front... but they all do, to degrees.

Okay, you may not like two-faced people, but c'mon that's what the programmes about, isn't it?!

I enjoy watching him and his cheeky ways. So he lost his temper one day. BFD

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ONLY NICE THINGS
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10:41 / 15.07.04
Threatening women with violence.... SO CUUUUUUUUUUTE!

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Spaniel
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10:44 / 15.07.04
I think Ganesh's problem is more that Victor's inauthentic front influences people in ways that he finds dull and frustrating.

Victor has been instrumental in shifting the polarity of the house towards heterocentrism.

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_Boboss
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11:14 / 15.07.04
i expect that michelle forgave victor because he's funny articulate, aware of the social structures around him, stoic or expresive as situations demand, and probably pretty good company. i wouldn't blame anyone for losing their shit at emma given that she was definitely among the 'shout first' variety of folk, about as capable of not doing that and forming a coherent argument in her own defence as ahmed. the only other time i can remember vistor using aggressive dominance signals and keen tongue to embitch another housemate was when marco in the middle of a poor-me post-nomination hissyfit had been making snide comments about him.

he spends some of his days killing time with the hopelessly dependent jason, using the game context as a means to direct his thinking and allay stress and boredom. sometimes he uses jason's predictability to amuse himself and attack other annoying housemates who he doesn't want to make overt enemies of. the bit when he told jason to kick arse and jason reacted like a zombie-bot was hilarious - victor was soon pissing himself because he couldn't believe how easy it all was.

he hasn't got as good a reason for wanting to win as nadia, though it would be good for a black guy to win because big b winners have all been white so far, but he's the only one who's gone into the show with a good wait and see/try to win attitude, and i reckon he deserves all the laydeez and free crystal that'll be heading his way.

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Ganesh
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11:38 / 15.07.04
I think Ganesh's problem is more that Victor's inauthentic front influences people in ways that he finds dull and frustrating.

Bingo. My problem isn't that Victor's inauthentic; it's that his fantasy superfly self is, to my mind, one-trick and boring - but the fact that other (insecure pseudo-hetero) housemates buy into it wholesale renders them boring. And the culture of the house has accordingly shifted in a direction I find boring.

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Ganesh
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11:48 / 15.07.04
i expect that michelle forgave victor because he's funny articulate, aware of the social structures around him, stoic or expresive as situations demand, and probably pretty good company.

Guess I'm finding the funny, articulate, socially-aware, stoicism/expressiveness distinctly one-note: essentially, he seems to come out with little other than 'I've got a huge cock', 'I'm baaad' and 'trust no-one, especially Nadia'. Oh yeah, and 'DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!'

Superfly macho-misogynist uber-het paranoid 'cheekiness' stopped being fun around the time I left adolescence and if ever there was a final nail in the yawnsome coffin, that nail was Knodge. That joke really isn't funny anymore...

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Ganesh
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11:56 / 15.07.04
And I expect Michelle "forgave" Victor because a) Ahmed aside, she really doesn't seem to bear grudges, b) on leaving the bedsit, she was wrapped up in pursuing Stu to the exclusion of all else, and c) Emma provided a fairly unequivocal example of what happens if one calls Victor on his two-facedness.

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adamswish
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12:03 / 15.07.04
Was it my imagination or did Spambot and Vic the prick have a conversation last night about how "skinny blokes are supposed to have huge willies" out in the garden, under the moon-lit sky, just the two of them.

Actually quite away from one another so they were pretty much shouting this out.

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Mourne Kransky
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12:23 / 15.07.04
Wee article in today's G2 by Sarfraz Manzoor on "Ahmed: the Rogue Rebel".

What makes Ahmed's discomfort so fascinating is that he displays it in ways that are so clearly not British - the finger pointing, the proclamations, the outright refusal to participate; he sticks out in the group like the rogue tooth in his mouth. He longs to be evicted, but his sense of pride means he cannot walk out. Hence the desperation of this week's attempted military coup and the flare-ups with Michelle. But what is really heartening about the coverage is that the issue of race and religion have not been raised as reasons for his peculiarities, either in the house or the press. Ahmed has been shown to be a disturbed, socially maladjusted individual who just happens to be Muslim.

Hmmm. I would hope that's true, that his current unpopularity stems from his quirks of personality and his behaviour towards his housemates. And that annoying bloody tooth. Out out damned spoilsport, out I say! But will the Currie factor operate? I fear for his mental health, if he's cooped up in there much longer.

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_Boboss
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12:54 / 15.07.04
'I've got a huge cock', 'I'm baaad' and 'trust no-one, especially Nadia'. Oh yeah, and 'DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!'

don't remember him saying any of those things that often, or for a long while (haven't been catching e4 or bblb though so..). as we saw last night with his (envy) and jason's (admiration) 'dan's cock' chat, the 'great girth' shit we heard earlier on has subsided, and wasn't i doubt much more than bored bullshitting in the first place - not that cool sure, but not enough to provoke loathing or excessive tedium.

to my mind the way he's constantly thinking of the game angle and habit of sparking conflict while simultaneously deflecting it from himself makes him one of the least boring people in there. i think michelle might even have noticed that saying nasty things about someone when you're under the impression that they could be watching you on the telly isn't two-faced at all. apart from emma he seems to have expressed very little antipathy towards the other housemates, and most of them pretty well like him in return. nadia maybe but that i can excuse because living in a house with her would drive me round the bend: 'i've allowed myself to become addicted to a poisonous chemical - i deserve special treatment!!' no you don't love, shush now.

don't know what you mean by the Knodge word - guessing it's an internet thing..?

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Tryphena Absent
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13:05 / 15.07.04
instead of being honest about it and admitting even BB thought she was wrong to throw the flip-flop, she comes out of the diary room and lies about it.

Yeah and good for her, there is no way I would have told Ahmed that I'd been reprimanded for throwing that flip-flop at him. Why give him the opportunity to gloat? He's already shown a complete lack of reason and logic and I'm sure it would extend to triumphant emotions thus provoking Michelle even more. I think she was right, it made me a bit uncomfortable but I understood why she lied.

In addition, not only would I have not told him but if I'm honest I would have thrown the flip-flop earlier, harder and with an accompanying scream of insane rage. I totally emphasised with her, he's been going on and on and on and I wouldn't have apologised despite my guilt because he was fucking asking for it.

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Ganesh
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14:21 / 15.07.04
don't remember him saying any of those things that often, or for a long while

I don't think he does say these things directly (outwith the Diary Room and one-to-one Spamchats); it's more that they're the essential themes which apparently underpin his worldview - and pretty much everything he does say and do.

not that cool sure, but not enough to provoke loathing or excessive tedium.

Actually, the 'Dan's girth' conversation was one of the few elements funny enough, IMHO, to break the "excessive tedium" of VicWorld. It was funny because it exemplified the combination of ill-informed urban myth and sli-i-ightly paranoid homodickfear/awe that makes up Vic and Spambo's perception of the queer Other.

to my mind the way he's constantly thinking of the game angle and habit of sparking conflict while simultaneously deflecting it from himself makes him one of the least boring people in there.

Have to agree to disagree, then. I'm finding VicWorld boring in the extreme.

apart from emma he seems to have expressed very little antipathy towards the other housemates, and most of them pretty well like him in return.

Other than the repeated 'warnings' that bendy-talking "mutual arse-licking society" Dan and Shell are not to be trusted, that "a few things are starting to creep out of" Michelle, and that Nadia is Public Enemy No.1. Not to-their-faces antipathy, perhaps, but furiously persecutory fantasising.

As for how much the others like him, well, we'll see how the nominations go next week, eh?

don't know what you mean by the Knodge word - guessing it's an internet thing..?

Kinda...

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_Boboss
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14:26 / 15.07.04
wow what a beaut. is his name really Andrew Cunt?

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Ganesh
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14:31 / 15.07.04
In a manner of speaking.

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Regrettable Juvenilia
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14:46 / 15.07.04
Shame he'll be leaving too late to take with him the paranoid James Bond panto-macho heteromainstream he was instrumental in creating...

Not sure how two-and-a-half people who are always in the garden count as a mainstream - it strikes me that Jay, Victor and Ahmed are at the fringes of the house now, with the other five as a reasonably friendly, likeable mainstream. Very interesting as well that Victor is the one who's been making obvious moves to integrate himself with the real mainstream of the house, whilst also pushing Jason and Ahmed to be more and more hostile. I agree with the commementator on BBLB a while back who said that when he's ready, Victor will nominate Jason.

The latest rumours doing the rounds in my office is that the evicted private will be able to take out with them either a) one of the other privates, or b) one of the sergeants. I suspect the latter would give us one of the most explosive and emotional Friday night's television in memory, which is why I reckon they'll go ahead with it: who cares how unfair you've been to one of the favourites if it gets the ratings in?

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Warewullf
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15:02 / 15.07.04
Also doing the rounds on the rumourmill:
The privates well and truly failed their tasks (in particular the boot-cleaning day where they apparently failed 14 times, if you believe some posters who watched it on E4) and BB ignored it, cos, like, it's more fun having 6 people up for evicition.

Ya gots ta love da BB conspiracy theories!

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Spatula Clarke
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15:07 / 15.07.04
You all might want to forget the rumours, seeing as they seem to have started over at the official(ly shit) BB forum. A quick glance at any of the threads there should explain why.

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Ganesh
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15:13 / 15.07.04
Not sure how two-and-a-half people who are always in the garden count as a mainstream - it strikes me that Jay, Victor and Ahmed are at the fringes of the house now, with the other five as a reasonably friendly, likeable mainstream.

Perhaps "mainstream" is the wrong word. 'Establishment'? 'Old Boys' Network'? I do think Victor, Jason and Ahmed have exerted a disproportionate influence on the atmosphere of the house, possibly because they're older males who've formed a strong, exclusive group identity which includes a common worldview, nominating allegiances, foes (much of their time is spent vigorously defining and redefining the Other) and a degree of partiality (compare 'Sergeant Jason's response to Ahmed and Nadia's task-related histrionics).

I think that, despite being in the minority, they've been able to establish themselves as a 'bedrock' of sorts because the others are a little too loosely-affiliated, and have tended to pair off in twosomes (Stu/Michelle, Dan/Shell).

I agree with the commementator on BBLB a while back who said that when he's ready, Victor will nominate Jason.

Oh, I imagine so.

who cares how unfair you've been to one of the favourites if it gets the ratings in?

I think Endemol has one eye on how its perceived by the public - and being that arbitrary would, I think, go too far. It'd beg the question, why hasn't anyone else been allowed to vindictively 'take someone else out' on their eviction?

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electricinca
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16:43 / 15.07.04
who cares how unfair you've been to one of the favourites if it gets the ratings in?

I think Endemol has one eye on how its perceived by the public - and being that arbitrary would, I think, go too far.

Being that arbitrary would damage their public image. The show is based upon public interaction and its business model is based upon the phone voting system.

Merely being controversial for better ratings whilst pissing off the public by denying them the opportunity to have control over who gets evicted and who ultimately wins is bad for business.

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The Puck
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19:25 / 15.07.04
that and every phone vote generates ££££s

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Ganesh
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21:00 / 15.07.04
I'm assuming Big Brother's given Victor that velvet smoking jacket as a replacement for his eviction outfit (accidentally ruined by Shell some weeks ago - and I think he was doing the whole 'they haven't replaced my suit so I can't be going' second-guessing thing). He looks good in it. Someone should claim the name's a derivation of 'cock-smoking jacket' because they're worn only by theatrical elderly poofs. It'd be interesting to induce a repeat of his homosexual anxiety attack in the Diary Room, when Big Brother quoted a song lyric with the words 'love' and 'man' in the same line.

He and Spambo are, as befits puffed-up-but-insecure little panto-males ("banging women" - yeah rrriiight), utterly obsessed with dick size. Tellingly, Victor boasts about the size of his friends' "saveloys" - and enacts a classic 'we are not amused' moue at the sight of Dan having his jeans pulled down by Michelle, Shell and Nadia. Not only is Dan the scary, big-porn-dicked homo Other, but he's getting a-a-all the attention from the Alpha Females. Poor Victor: it must be hard. Or at least semi.

Still, I'm sure he and Spamlet could, if they chose, re-establish the natural Alpha order by simply raising their voices and "telling them what time it is" (is this, one wonders, the same sort of thing as asking Emma who Victor is?).

Sad.

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Ganesh
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21:14 / 15.07.04
Oh yeah, and I take back what I said, Flyboy, about VicWorld being mainstream. I'm not sure if it's the (self-)alienation of Ahmed or the destabilising threat of eviction, but Vic the Prick and the Spamster are indeed, if this evening's footage is a reliable indicator, looking distinctly marginalised - outdated, even. They might eulogise the entertainment value of having "kicked off" but they forget that, for the past few weeks, they've been in a fishwives' huddle in the bedroom, doing fuck-all but whinge. That or fantasise, like preadolescent boys, about accruing authority, "banging" women and being avenged on "the opposition" (women and queers - Nadia covering both bases).

Leaving the doll-children and poofs to actually interact with the house's women.

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Spatula Clarke
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21:14 / 15.07.04
his homosexual anxiety attack in the Diary Room, when Big Brother quoted a song lyric with the words 'love' and 'man' in the same line.

That was a fairly clear joke, I thought. Playing a character - he stuck on an upper-class accent when he said it, to go with the smoking jacket. Mock outrage.

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30.0283529104include( '/mnt/webroot/barbelith.iamcal.com/www/templates/topic_post_row.txt ).../topic_posts.txt:76
 
 
Ganesh
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10.0000359440{main}( ).../topic.php:0
20.0061417480include( '/mnt/webroot/barbelith.iamcal.com/www/templates/topic_posts.txt ).../topic.php:29
30.0287529104include( '/mnt/webroot/barbelith.iamcal.com/www/templates/topic_post_row.txt ).../topic_posts.txt:76
21:21 / 15.07.04
Nah. He might've attempted to rescue his reaction with a funny voice, but his immediate gut response was real.

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10.0000359440{main}( ).../topic.php:0
20.0061417480include( '/mnt/webroot/barbelith.iamcal.com/www/templates/topic_posts.txt ).../topic.php:29
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20.0061417480include( '/mnt/webroot/barbelith.iamcal.com/www/templates/topic_posts.txt ).../topic.php:29
  
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