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Big Brother 2004

 
  

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Ganesh
10:48 / 14.07.04
I'm not up to speed with all this, but I had heard that Ahmed is a refugee from Somalia, which might make him a victim of sorts and liable to have issues with being bossed about by people in military uniform. Anyone know the background details?

That was my initial thought about the farmer/cow game in which he did his screamy/snarly tantrum thing at having to wear a blindfold - and that turned out to from some sort of separate occurrence when he was a kid. He apparently left Somalia in order to avoid the military draft.

His problem appears to be with a) any game which 'demotes' his apparent status, and b) being bossed around by women. As well as the blindfold incident, he couldn't conceive of being spanked by Becki, even in fun, and insisted he be the one dominating her - and the whole sorry 'military coup' suggests he's happy enough taking orders from a male, but feels deeply aggrieved at being upbraided by Michelle.

So no, while the glib answer is to point to his background as a refugee, I think it's stretching things.
 
 
Jub
11:05 / 14.07.04
Indeed it is. Actually I was refering specifically to him
hiding behind his ahem... illness, anyway.

Also - during the "coop" - I believe I heard him say - although I could be wrong - "now, Michelle, I'm not allowed use violence in here so I'm asking you nicely - give me your jacket!"

Scary stuff.
 
 
Ganesh
11:10 / 14.07.04
Yeah, I thought he was actually being quite scarily intimidating there - and, having seen his flash-bursts of rage with inanimate objects, I think Michelle was quite brave to stand her ground. If I'd been her and he'd been carrying a shovel, I'd probably have surrendered the jacket.

Yet he falls in line sooo readily with the other SSM, with the merest iota of transparently self-serving ego-stroking.
 
 
electricinca
11:28 / 14.07.04
Ahmed is a moron. It's a mutiny you twat not a military coup. A coup d'etat is an illegal violent overthrow of the government. So if he were to escape the confines of the house and take over the Big Brother television studio then it might be a fucking coup.

I laugh at how easily manipulated both Ahmed and Jason are by Victor. Wind them up and set them loose.

Michelle's topless argument with Ahmed is a classic moment of television I loved it. What was going through his head at that moment I wonder. I hope Davina plays that clip at the eviction show just to humiliate him a little more.
 
 
Hattie's Kitchen
11:35 / 14.07.04
I think it'd be funny if they replaced Davina with Dermot for Ahmed's eviction show, on the grounds that she has a sore throat...watch arsewipe Ahmed's face fall when he realises his whole reason for existing in the house has fucked him sideways as well. I really wouldn't want to be Davina, greeting Ahmed out of the house...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
11:40 / 14.07.04
Less of the Ahmed/Jason fuckwittery and more of this and this please, housemates. "I gotta run away... I'm running away now - keep running man!"
 
 
Nobody's girl
11:45 / 14.07.04
Watching some of the live footage of Jason endlessly grooming himself last night, the text question asked whether BB should confiscate his grooming products. I reckon that'd be a great idea, if only so he gets an idea of what Nadia feels like without her ciggies. Watching him fiend for exfoliant would be quality telly.
 
 
Ganesh
11:56 / 14.07.04
Yes, it'd be pleasingly ironic if Davina being "sick" with a sore throat (presumably despite a clean bill of medical health) caused a downgrading of Ahmed's Big Night...
 
 
Ganesh
11:58 / 14.07.04
Now that's a plan, Nobody's Girl. Considering he threatened to walk a few weeks back, because they'd asked him to remove his cap (his hair was flat, apparently), the Spamster's in no position to lecture Nadia on addiction.

And yeah, Stu seems to have skipped from the pages of Calvin & Hobbes...
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
11:59 / 14.07.04
ahmed's behaviour is no worse than Nadia's.

She is an intimidating bully who threatens to 'destroy' unless her needs are catered for. Also, I would have to say that her use of 'bully' was careless, unfairly applied at the time she did and is also a classic 'bullying' texchnique in itself.

But perhaps the BB public is more sympathetic to the needs of a selfish, immature transexual than to a selfish, immature somalo-brit.

I think Ahmed has also been useful in exposing other people's manipulative, scheming behaviour. Despite being fairly inarticulate himself, I believe the others think he lends an air of intelligence to proceedings, even tho he's said or done nothing to reveal his intellectual ability. As a result, other housemates sometimes 'crack' during their confrontations with him and are forced to reveal their own prejudices.

of course he is an arse, tho.

really now, it's just victor left who I have any time for on a personal level. I like his syntax. And.

his.

pauses.

between.

words.

which.

form.

one.

sentence.

(when he's making a point - 'It's time to get a grip' last night for example)

Dan's 'walking threat' is mighty odd. 'Scared of finishing something' syndrome or what?

Inflated sense of self more like.
 
 
Ganesh
12:17 / 14.07.04
ahmed's behaviour is no worse than Nadia's.

Depends whether one is concerned by the misogynistic aspect, I guess - and the opting-out of group responsibilities because they involve a perceived drop in status.

She is an intimidating bully who threatens to 'destroy' unless her needs are catered for. Also, I would have to say that her use of 'bully' was careless, unfairly applied at the time she did and is also a classic 'bullying' texchnique in itself.

On the other hand, she actually is being bullied in that a particular axis within the house is perpetually reminding itself that Nadia is the "enemy" and must be confronted at every point - as contrasted with the softly-softly approach to Ahmed's task-jeopardising histrionics.

And Ahmed actually does destroy things...

But perhaps the BB public is more sympathetic to the needs of a selfish, immature transexual than to a selfish, immature somalo-brit.

Are we arguing that transsexualism is the public-swaying factor here, or race?

Personally, despite my impatience with the nicotine tantrums, I'm more sympathetic toward someone who at least has the occasional insight to appreciate that they're behaving badly - and avoids crapping on the outcome for the whole group on the grounds that their 'status' might be dented.

I think Ahmed has also been useful in exposing other people's manipulative, scheming behaviour. Despite being fairly inarticulate himself, I believe the others think he lends an air of intelligence to proceedings, even tho he's said or done nothing to reveal his intellectual ability. As a result, other housemates sometimes 'crack' during their confrontations with him and are forced to reveal their own prejudices.

I don't disagree. He's also revealed a shitload of prejudices of his own, particularly his apparent inability to be subordinate to a woman, even in flirtatious play.
 
 
Ganesh
12:23 / 14.07.04
Dan's 'walking threat' is mighty odd. 'Scared of finishing something' syndrome or what?

Inflated sense of self more like.


He's rationalised it in terms of entering Big Brother being credibility-sapping among the art crowd (yes, that shitty robot-dancing trance stuff was art), and winning being particularly naff.

Despite the Jungle Twats' obvious interest, I suspect that if Dan makes it to the final three, he'll weasel out of this. I think it's quite difficult to walk from the house (and miss out on the Big Night With Davina, the money-shot of the whole experience), and he'll increasingly find reasons to stay.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
12:35 / 14.07.04
With my definitions of Ahmed and Nadia, race is partly the issue because Ahmed, through his own behaviour and the distorting media lens, has been portrayed, fictionalised, characterised as the foreigner. Nadia’s foreignness is all but forgotten as the others try to forget she’s actually a transexoglodyte.

In my office for example, there is real hatred of Ahmed – someone even said it was outrageous that no producers stepped in to stop him ‘beheading’ the statue considering what was going in the world right now. (for some reason the same person couldn’t fathom that perhaps BB is out of order for creating master/servant guard/prisoner scenarios considering the global ‘situation’ the noo)

And while I was a fan of Michelle at the start of this show, I now find her tiresome. She was brave to stand up to the little man aad she has proved herself to be more articulate than most when under the cosh but still, something nags – I suppose I will never feel comfortable with the safe, simple, under-educated template she represents.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
12:41 / 14.07.04
ahmed's behaviour is no worse than Nadia's.

It really is. Nadia's damned annoying, but she's at least made attempts to rebuild bridges. Ahmed's just an arrogant prick - there's never any recognition of the possibility that he might have been out of order. And like Ganesh says, he's got some pretty obvious problems with women. Not to mention the obvious homophobia.

Nadia - infuriating as she is - has redeeming features. If the best that can be said of Ahmed is that he's inadvertently bringing the nastier characteristics of others to the fore, then that's not very much at all.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
12:43 / 14.07.04
yawn: wrt the first bit of your last post, isn't that a little like disliking a band because of their fans?
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
12:47 / 14.07.04
dinnae ken wit ye mean.

please clarify.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
13:01 / 14.07.04
You're playing the race card so we sympathise with Ahmed... pretty scandalous tactic considering even HE hasn't done that yet.

I'm sorry but a lazy twat is a lazy twat. And one that happily picks up a shovel and attacks the symbol of the housemates team-work (not to mention the statue's physical resemblence) is certainly someone to be wary of for all the wrong reasons.

Nadia gets irritable without fags. Nicotine withdrawal. Even if you don't smoke you can appreciate that there's an outside influence that creates her "hysterics".
Ahmed's are of his own making (or making up).
 
 
Ganesh
13:06 / 14.07.04
With my definitions of Ahmed and Nadia, race is partly the issue because Ahmed, through his own behaviour and the distorting media lens, has been portrayed, fictionalised, characterised as the foreigner. Nadia’s foreignness is all but forgotten as the others try to forget she’s actually a transexoglodyte.

Which would suggest that, in terms of they way they're publicly presented and/or consumed, Big Brother contestants can only define themselves through a single characteristic, or 'gimmick'. Ahmed's archetype is The Foreigner; Nadia's is The (Covert) Transsexual.

Okay, I'm with you so far. What I'm finding difficult to see is how this maps onto Ahmed's specific, individual behaviour being, underneath it all, no worse than Nadia's. Are you suggesting that Nadia repeatedly jeopardised the task by feigning illness, or that Ahmed went around apologetically bridge-building after his outbursts - and Channel 4 airbrushed these modifying factors out?

In my office for example, there is real hatred of Ahmed – someone even said it was outrageous that no producers stepped in to stop him ‘beheading’ the statue considering what was going in the world right now. (for some reason the same person couldn’t fathom that perhaps BB is out of order for creating master/servant guard/prisoner scenarios considering the global ‘situation’ the noo)

Fair enough. In your office, people hate him because he 'insensitively' beheaded a statue - and yeah, that's clearly a case of people superimposing wider prejudices (Muslims Are Barbaric) onto the archetypal Foreigner.

I don't think that fully explains the antipathy toward him. In my office, there's very real contempt for him as a result of his immediate readiness to down tools and say a big 'fuck you' to the entire team, because he couldn't hack being in a subordinate position (although he's apparently happy enough being in a subordinate position to 'authentic' Stupid Straight Men) - and his adherence to a pathetically hypochondrial 'sick role' when it was convincing no-one.

I think there is a connection between his crappy behaviour and the overlaying of stereotypical prejudices: surfing the BB chatrooms, there are plenty of sweepingly right-wing statements on how They come over Here and expect to be carried by the rest of society. Ahmed's trashing of the task certainly fed into those prejudices. I think similar prejudices lurk just beneath the surface in many, and Ahmed's behaviour is likely to invoke a seam of hatred. I do feel, however, that this doesn't lessen the degree to which he is responsible for his own utter selfishness within the house.

It's probably his stupidly misguided sense of pride that's the cherry: he equates shouting (women and queers) down with "straight-talking", and lovingly nurses the most superficial of grudges. He seems unable to look beyond the surface of a disagreement, merely registering that the individual who disagreed with him = bad, and he never gets any support within the house.

And yeah, some degree of recognition that he's capable of acting badly himself would be nice. Just once.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
13:06 / 14.07.04
I got the impression you were comparing Nadia and Ahmed on the reaction that each has received from the press/wider public and using that comparison to pardon the actions of the one while damning the other. The way Ahmed is behaving is bad, but he's getting a bad reception outside the house; Nadia's not quite as bad, but she's getting a better reception, so that evens things out.

But I've prolly misread your posts.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
13:26 / 14.07.04
Rawkusboi: I’m not ‘playing the race card’ so that you sympathise with Ahmed. I’m highlighting, how, in my experience of the show and discussing it with my slice of the British public, Ahmed seems to gather more hatred because he’s a ‘paki’. I don’t want you to sypathise with him however.

As I have said – I think he’s an arse.

BUT

Sincerely now: I enjoy unpleasant characters on this show. I want them to stay in. I find it makes for better telly. And referring to all the posters who feel it’s easier to sympathise with nadia cos she has nicotine withdrawal:

One question: What you doing on the show chick? Fags weren’t guaranteed now, were they?

And anyway, just because her mania is induced by a recognisable problem (nae fags) doesn’t mean anyone else in the house may also be suffering from some kind of withdrawal symptom, paranoia, whatever, which is not so common, easy to relate to etc.

Anyway, I typically identify with ‘hated’ characters – despite being much loved myself – I find the experience rewarding. And I like to know what makes the British public feel comfortable, safe, uncomfortable and frightened. This show can be quite good for that sometimes.

I’m still bemused by the Victor bashing on this thread - I honestly find him OK
 
 
Ganesh
13:43 / 14.07.04
I don't hate Ahmed, particularly; I do find his level of self-delusion rather contemptible - which is possibly what he has in common with Victor and Jason, the other Stupid Straight Men. And he's irritating in the extreme.

But then, I guess my own personality is such that I don't get a great deal out of being the 'hated' person in a given group. I actually quite like getting on with people. Perhaps Ahmed's just too subversive for me, hmm?

For me, the Victor-bashing stems, again, from the utter absense of Selfawarian stamps in his passport. He really does appear to believe the pre-rehearsed blaxploitation guff he spouts in the Diary Room, and I think he too has a problem with women and poofs - just less of a problem than his two willing side-bitches.

In many ways, it's the unholy synergism of the three Stupid Straight Men that bothers me the most: they've established a hegemony of sorts, a hetero mainstream within the house in which their ramshackle cobbled-together Frankenstein's monster version of heteromasculinity rules the waves, and into which no little woman or queer must intrude. If Shell's subtly Othered Ahmed on the basis of his foreignness, then the Stupid Straight Men have Othered everyone who exhibits any sign of anything that's not "straight-talking" straightness.

It's the preadolescent world of James Bond, or John Shaft. Anyone could be a spy, no-one can be trusted - and anything less-than-Alpha is either an "enemy", a "fence-sitter" or not-to-be-trusted eyecandy.

And the paranoia works well in distracting one from ever having to consider one's own personal/social/sexual shortcomings, one's own ambiguities. Selfawaria's not even on the map...
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
13:45 / 14.07.04
You played the race card by comparing Nadia and Ahmed and their different portrayal by the media. Ahmed is a "paki" (as you put it) whereas Nadia's foreigner status is ignored.
I'd say she has a "better" chance of being cast in a bad light due to her sexuality/sex-change. It's actually refreshing to see the press embrace her because of it instead of trashing her and her deceitful ways.

I don't think in terms of race, I blame a stupid liberal upbringing, but there are facets of Ahmed that can only be acredited to his religion/race. Like it or not his distrust of women and homosexuals stems from his Muslim faith. I remember from the first week that he stated he'd have problems with any gay people in the house and was quite suprised when he was "ok" with Dan and Marco, of course his later confrontational stance with Marco whilst being amusing was obviously a result of his beliefs.

Nadia (being Portugese I think) is still Johnny Foreigner but has a more blatant card to play by being a transexual.

And I agree, I like the volatile people in the house, which is why I'd prefer Victor out over Ahmed.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
14:17 / 14.07.04
I hope you kept the receipt for that liberal upbringing.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:22 / 14.07.04
One question: What you doing on the show chick? Fags weren’t guaranteed now, were they?

Well that would be a good question if Nadia understood how she would feel without nicotine but perhaps she simply didn't know? She's in withdrawal, her body obviously reacts very horribly to coming off this drug and when she said she was going to leave I believed her desperation if nothing else.

I don't think that Ahmed's going through the same thing at all, Nadia was suffering but she still sat there and cleaned a pile of boots, he made the decision to sacrifice the group rather than do some cleaning. That's fine but when you make a conscious decision you're responsible for it. If Ahmed doesn't want to play than he should leave, if he wants to rebel than he should rebel rather than whine. Mostly he should realise that Michelle and Jason were equal in that task- that's why I really dislike him, he's fucking stupid.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:29 / 14.07.04
Oh and Ahmed is pathetic- sore throat? He should try hayfever on for size, how about period pains? Maybe walking down Oxford Street with a nasty headache and a mildly twisted ankle? If he had any guts he would have gone home instead of pulling that nonsense.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
14:34 / 14.07.04
I hope you kept the receipt for that liberal upbringing.

If I wanted to return it I would. Sometiemes it's difficult for people to believe that some kids are raised without any racial prejudice. I know it shocked my mother.

But a lazy twat is a lazy twat regardless of religion, colour or sexuality. I'm an equal opportunites kinda guy
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
14:36 / 14.07.04
Rawk – a transex is always gonna get more sympathy from the British public/press than an ‘asylum seeker’ – Brits love a pantomime sexual deviant, to be honest, it’s the only way brit-mass-culture tolerates humans of obscured sexuality. A-Seekers, on the other hand, are hated. Absolutely hated.

Rawk – I’ve not denied playing the race card – tho the term is too strong for my liking. I brought it up as I feel it has a lot to do with Ahmed’s predicament (wanker or otherwise).

And yes, ‘paki’ was my term – thanks for reminding me.

But then, I guess my own personality is such that I don't get a great deal out of being the 'hated' person in a given group. I actually quite like getting on with people. Perhaps Ahmed's just too subversive for me, hmm?

I too, enjoy getting on with people – you may remember – we met, we got on. And like you, I certainly don’t want to be a ‘hated’ member of society (not even barbelith’s ‘society’) As for Ahmed’s subversive behaviour being too much for you – I’m surprised you felt suitably narked by my observations to comment in such a manner.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
14:54 / 14.07.04
Sometiemes it's difficult for people to believe that some kids are raised without any racial prejudice.

Kinda meant that that's up for debate, what with your Muslim = homophobe, misogynist comment.
 
 
Ganesh
15:02 / 14.07.04
Rawk – a transex is always gonna get more sympathy from the British public/press than an ‘asylum seeker’ – Brits love a pantomime sexual deviant, to be honest, it’s the only way brit-mass-culture tolerates humans of obscured sexuality. A-Seekers, on the other hand, are hated. Absolutely hated.

That's just a tad flip, don't you think? Transsexualism doesn't map onto sexual deviance (disorder of gender, not sexuality), and Nadia's hardly a "pantomime sexual deviant"; everything she's said and done thus far (other than going on the damned show in the first place) indicates that playing the Transsexual Card is far from uppermost. She's steadfastly refused all attempts to coax her 'out', and she seems to be motivated by a genuine desire to be accepted as female rather than as a gender-diagnosis.

Having worked with both transsexuals and asylum-seekers, I'd say both come in for a large degree of vitriol from the Great British Public. Both groups can be hated, particularly if they're seen as entitled or 'uppity'; I'd probably agree that (the spectre of) asylum-seekers are viewed as more overtly threatening, which probably generates more antipathy.

What this has to do with Ahmed and Nadia's respective behaviour as specific individuals within the Big Brother house, though, is harder to see...

I too, enjoy getting on with people – you may remember – we met, we got on. And like you, I certainly don’t want to be a ‘hated’ member of society (not even barbelith’s ‘society’) As for Ahmed’s subversive behaviour being too much for you – I’m surprised you felt suitably narked by my observations to comment in such a manner.

And I'm surprised you've made the assumption that I'm "narked". That paragraph was 'musing' in nature, with an appended in-joke intended to reference the Nexus's ooold fascination with rebelliousness/subversion/fucking shit up. I actually considered adding a smiley but remembered that, when we met (and yeah, we did get on) I'd felt we shared at least some of the same humour wavelength.

Dinnae fash yersel' big man.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
15:06 / 14.07.04
You put words in my mouth. I said:
"Like it or not his distrust of women and homosexuals stems from his Muslim faith."

Not "Muslim = Homophobe + misogynist".
Thats a broad statement and not the one I wrote.

From Big Brother's website (I knew I'd seen it somewhere):
Self-confessed homophobe, Ahmed, found an unlikely ally in Daniel this lunchtime when he confided that he is already feeling lonely and unhappy.

It's Ahmed's first "news report" which confirms what I'd said earlier.
His profile doesn't mention his homophobia but one of the main quotes about the housemates when they first entered was that there was an asylum seeker who hated gay people.

Now that DOESN'T imply that Muslim = homophobic just that Ahmed = Homophobic.
 
 
DaveBCooper
15:12 / 14.07.04
The idea that Ahmed is straight-talking is utterly risible, he seems unable to sustain an argument in anything like a straight line, and then – as noted elsewhere – goes all shoutypointy. There was a great example of it the other night when Dan was gauging his illness or otherwise (I paraphrase):
Dan: Have you ever done National Service, Ahmed ?
Ahmed: No.
Dan: It’s just that –
Ahmed : Have YOU ?
Dan : No, I haven’t.
Ahmed: So, don’t act like you’re better than me.
Dan: No, the point I was making is that people who DO National Service have to sit out in the rain even if they do have a cold…

Ahmed seems to delight in making a point, then when anyone – particularly a woman – says anything to challenge it, he says well, that’s YOU, not ME, this is how I am etc. Not any kind of debate, just occasional telegrams from inside his head. Doesn’t really make for interesting listening, or, I’ll wager, participation.

Nadia seems okay, though the frequency of the nicotine withdrawal problems does kind of make it difficult to divine exactly which reactions are her genuine ones, and which are heightened by the paucity of fags.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:14 / 14.07.04
rawkusboi:

No, it doesn't. I don't see that mentioned in the post I was replying to, though.

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to exactly why "Like it or not his distrust of women and homosexuals stems from his Muslim faith" and "Muslim = Homophobe + misogynist" are substantially different remarks, because I'm just not seeing it.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
15:22 / 14.07.04
Pointless argument, one in which I'm not particularly happy to continue participating. I'm certainly not going to continue arguing whether Islam promotes homophobia and misogyny against someone that just wants me to sound like a racist.

Why don't you tell me how I'm wrong and how Muslim doesn't = homophobic/misgynistic.

The keyword in my statement was "his". I was talking about one person, not a faith.
 
 
Ganesh
15:23 / 14.07.04
I don't think the nicotine-withdrawal's much of an excuse. Nadia's saving grace, however, is that she realises how pathetic she's being - albeit usually after the event itself. Ahmed, by contrast, doesn't seem ever to approach this level of self-awareness; he merely digs himself firmly into the role of victim, adding more housemates to his ever-expanding grudge-list on the grounds that they've called him on his behaviour.

I wonder whether the way he's perceived is affected by his age, too. He's, what, 44, compared to Nadia's 27? There's a widespread expectation - particularly among the twentysomethings who make up the bulk of the Big Brother demographic - that individuals in their forties ought to have addressed at least some of their childish hangups, sorted out some of their shit. Developed some awareness of self. I suspect this is an additional reason why Ahmed may not be being afforded as much leeway in his screamily immature histrionics.
 
 
Ganesh
15:34 / 14.07.04
Why don't you tell me how I'm wrong and how Muslim doesn't = homophobic/misgynistic.

Well, because E Randy didn't make the assertion. If you're seriously trying to make the point that Ahmed's distrust of women and queers stems inherently from his being Muslim, then I would like to participate in the discussion - just not, if it's gonna become more generalised, in this thread. Start another, please.
 
  

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