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Celebrity Big Brother 2007

 
  

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STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:40 / 16.01.07
Lula- not sure where my thresholds are as regards the average, but it's fairly fucking overt from where I'm sitting, yes.

"They eat with their hands, don't they, in India? I don't want her touching my food... I don't know where her fingers have been". Or words to that effect. FUCK OFF.
 
 
Feverfew
17:42 / 16.01.07
FUCK OFF.

Seconded.
 
 
Lurid Archive
18:08 / 16.01.07
OK, I'm obviously missing some of the nastier stuff.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:20 / 16.01.07
(Incidentally, having just reread my last post, I feel I should point out that the FUCK OFF was aimed at Jade et al, not anyone here. I'm sure you all got that- Feverfew obviously did- but having watched this tawdry mess for the last few days I'm becoming overly sensitive about not offending people. Fear not, it'll pass, and I'll be obnoxious again soon).
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:31 / 16.01.07
Dave Gorman's comments on his BBLB appearance.

Personally, I think he's being a little too kind and fluffy, but that's just me.

When he says:

It's as if by using more and more cartoonish insults, Shilpa is made less and less real to them and they then feel less and less guilty about saying worse and worse things.

however, I feel like buying the guy several beers.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
18:44 / 16.01.07
One can only hope that this repulsive behaviour is going to seriously damage the outside careers of those involved.

Agreed, but it'll be interesting to see what happens to Jade in particular - Danielle seems set to head back to making Teddy Sherringham's life a misery without overly troubling the GBP much further, while Jo's presumably going to have to until there's a vacancy for a barmaid at the Queen Vic before she returns to the nation's TV screens. But Jade, while she has behaved disgracefully, has also done pretty much exactly what she was hired to do in terms of boosting the ratings, getting everyone talking and so on. It may well be that she's considered untouchable after this, but equally, if that happens there won't be many reality TV production companies that don't bitterly regret it.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:53 / 16.01.07
Okay, Shilpa rocks.
 
 
Ganesh
19:29 / 16.01.07
I'm glad Shilpa's expressing her anger more. I was concerned that she was essentially being treated as a contemptible servant to the extent that she might be starting to accept that role (and naturally there's a racist element to that dynamic as well as the more explicit stuff) herself.
 
 
Olulabelle
20:12 / 16.01.07
Shilpa's pretty hardcore if you ask me. She doesn't come across as someone who's going to take a lot of grief. I bet you she'd been saving that line up for days.

The girls appear to be digging themselves even deeper, especially Jade with her 'dream'/load of made-up bollocks. Yes. I think Jade's PR machine might be rocking gently in the corner, weeping to itself right about now.
 
 
Ganesh
20:17 / 16.01.07
Jade's 'dream' was passive-aggressive shitbaggery. I think Shilpa's (excellent) comeback was pretty spontaneous, though.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:20 / 16.01.07
The girls appear to be digging themselves even deeper, especially Jade with her 'dream'/load of made-up bollocks.

Totally. And the "you might be a fuckin' princess in fuckin' Neverland" shit...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
04:22 / 17.01.07
The Sun's turning against Jade now, if Shilpa were a white European then the Sun wouldn't have a problem with anyone being nasty to her, but racism? Oh no!

The Telegraph is reporting that Carphone Warehouse are reconsidering sponsoring the show which would suggest that it's better to complain to them about it than Ofcom.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:56 / 17.01.07
Germaine Greer opines that Shilpa is orchestrating a clever, perfectly-acted campaign to draw out her housemates' racism.

***


Not sure how convinced I am of any of this.
 
 
Seth
07:28 / 17.01.07
Was thinking about this at uni today: couldn't they all be charged with racial harassment? You wouldn't have to prove that they'd said racist things, just that their motivation in what they did do and say was racially based. And AFAIK in UK law an incident can be classified as a hate crime as long as the victim considers it one, which might be a help.

I strongly believe they could be charged with racial hate speech. In fact the definition of hate speech that plod are supposed to operate under is that anyone within earshot can be the aggrieved of hatespeech, even if they do not belong to the minority being targeted. Hence we have had situations in which a heterosexual male has pressed charges of homophobic abuse.

Now think about it. That means that any Big Brother viewer could press charges if they wanted to. I'm looking for a link on this, but I've run out of time and won't get the chance for a couple of days now.

Now... if this is true... does anyone feel like starting a phone-in campaign to the Met to press charges, armed with all the right bits of info?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:28 / 17.01.07
That article did appear to be loonbarge.
 
 
Thorn Davis
07:46 / 17.01.07
I think it's standard practice during Big Brother for someone to write an article claiming one of the contestants is actually just staging a brilliantly acted campaign for the top prize. I remember similar things being written about Nasty Nick, and also reading comment about how Jade's staggering ignorance (around the time of East Angular etc) was actually just a ploy to grab headlines and win the pot.
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:14 / 17.01.07
Most of Germaine Greer's Guardian columns bore the piss out of me. That one there riles me up big time.

Effectively summarised as "OMG She's got a g%m£pl%n!"

Backhanded criticism of the racists themselves, and basically laying the blame at the feet of the Machiavellan Shilpa for goading them into it by...umm...cooking and being there.

Greer also appears not to understand why calling someone the P-word is worse than calling someone an Aussie which shows a frightening lack of awareness in my tiny view.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:58 / 17.01.07
Funnily enough, we've had this on Barbelith before - the departed and largely unmourned Aus maintained in defence of George W Bush using the term that only the English thought that it was any more offensive than "Aussie", because the English were racists. However, Germaine Greer has lived in Britain for some decades now, and might be expected to have gotten the hang of this, especially since the thrust of her argument appears to be "some of my best friends are Asian, and as such I can confidently identify Shipa as being a manipulative mistress of the g*m*pl*n".
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:26 / 17.01.07
Was anyone watching the live feed last night? Something's definitely been said to Danielle at least- she was in the DR for ages, then came out looking all worried. Then they were given booze and the three of them carried on the bitching, but Danielle was looking very uncomfortable with it, trying to change the subject and eventually suggesting they just go to bed.

In short, she was acting like somebody who knows they're in deep shit. I don't know why her specifically- maybe she said something that I didn't catch which they thought crossed the line. Who knows?
 
 
Lama glama
09:49 / 17.01.07
Quite possibly the putting of skin-flakes into her food comment is what made them summon her. In previous years, housemates who intimated that they were going to do something to another housemate's food were often called to the diary room for a telling off.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:58 / 17.01.07
Funny- halfway through that article I thought she'd started making a lot of sense. Then I realised the second article was by someone else.
 
 
Tabitha Tickletooth
10:04 / 17.01.07
Keith Vaz has just raised this in PMQs - Blair gave a very bland 'condemn racism in all its forms' response. At least Keith got it in there.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
11:17 / 17.01.07
Germaine You can call her a "dog". Sexism is fine. What you mustn't do is call her a "Paki". As if to be Pakistani was to be worse than being a dog. Our very tenderness on this issue is the flip side of racism, and still part of the same coin. If you call me an Aussie you don't insult me because Aussieness is OK. Pakiness is evidently not OK.

For someone so apparently academically gifted Germaine Greer does seem to be incredibly thick.
 
 
Sniv
12:13 / 17.01.07
One of my Indian friends was explaining to me that What you mustn't do is call her a "Paki". As if to be Pakistani was to be worse than being a dog. is about a right reaction, especially if the reciever of the insult is Indian, what with all the animosity between the two races. She said it was like calling a Scotsman 'Welsh', or an Eglishman 'American', or an Irish catholic 'Protestant' -only y'know, with more hatred and bloodshed between the two cultures.

So, if I can see why calling Shilpa a 'paki' would be a bad thing (other than the obvious name-calling), why can't Germaine? Didn't her parents teach her that calling people names was wrong anyway?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:23 / 17.01.07
I think the point is not that she's being inaccurately described as Pakistani, when she is in fact Indian. The point is that it is hate speech.

Oh, hang on. Forgot something.

I know I have it here somewhere.

Ah!

Found it.

For God's sake.
 
 
Sniv
12:36 / 17.01.07
The point is that it is hate speech.

Well yes, that goes without saying really, doesn't it? That is what we've been discussing for the past couple of days. I was merely poiting out that to an Indian like Shilpa, being called a 'paki' would be even more galling, which I didn't know until quite recently.
 
 
Thorn Davis
12:41 / 17.01.07
That... kind of assumes racism on her part though, doesn't it? Like, "come on - it's not right to call her a paki. She probably hates the fucking pakis."
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:54 / 17.01.07
Well, quite. Also, bear in mind that Shilpa is a Tamil, and as such her relationship to her Indianness may not in itself be uncomplex. Also bear in mind that for some people being called Scottish rather than English is more or less offensive.

Ultimately, though, I'm very glad that it does go without saying that it is hate speech, because I really wasn't sure for a bit there. The taxonomic confusion is not particularly interesting, because it is not a pejorative term for a Pakistani person. It is a pejorative term for any South Asian person, regardless of the geographical boundaries they or their ancestors inhabited.
 
 
Sniv
13:06 / 17.01.07
It is a pejorative term for any South Asian person, regardless of the geographical boundaries they or their ancestors inhabited.

Yes, I agree. Talking about that idea (what racists will call any asian-looking person a 'paki') was how I found out that Indians (or at least the Indians that my friend was speaking for) generally really don't like the term when it's addressed to them. And yes, I did detect just a hint of racial tension in my friend's description of that the Pakistani people had done to the Indians (and vice versa), but I'm barely qualified to talk about racism in my own country, let alone across the other side of the world that I know very little about (but would love to be educated more about it).

Also bear in mind that for some people being called Scottish rather than English is more or less offensive.

I agree, that's what I was trying to get at in my last post. It's yet another sign of ignorance on behalf of the racist name-caller, isn't it?

Ultimately, though, I'm very glad that it does go without saying that it is hate speech, because I really wasn't sure for a bit there.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. You weren't sure if I would call it hatespeech, or you weren't sure if the general-public or society would? That's the debate in the country right now isn't it? - does the stuff on big-bother constitute racist hate-speech, or is it just 'girls being bullies'? Either way, it's making me like BB less and less...
 
 
miss wonderstarr
13:12 / 17.01.07
One could possibly conceive of it as an insult-to-injury double whammy. Just as calling a Japanese person a "Chink" might seem even more offensive and ignorant ~ they're not even using the right bigoted term for your culture. I don't know ~ perhaps the distinctions aren't really worth discussing here. I think the intention on the part of the person using the racial slur is the point, really. It's not as if Jack would correct himself and explain he didn't mean to call Shilpa "paki" ~ he thought she was actually from Pakistan, but if she's not, that's OK and he takes it back.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:23 / 17.01.07
You, specifically, in this case, John, and more broadly Germaine Greer. More broadly again, since apparently the word hasn't, at least according to Channel 4, actually been used, the broader debate is about what _does_ constitute racially-motivated harrassment on Big Brother. This is a side-issue involving something Germaine Greer said, which may or may not relate to something Jade Goody's boyfriend allegedly said or did not say.

Short version: if your Indian frieds want to get extra upset because a particular term of abuse aimed at them and their people sounds a bit like "Pakistani", that's their prerogative, but it's really rather missing the point.

Wonderstarr: Yeah, except that it has never really been an insult directed solely at Pakistani people, or at least not in Britain and not for a long time. It's a term of abuse directed at South Asian people generally. As such, and as you say, it doesn't really matter to somebody saying it whether they intend maliciously to misrepresent someone's country of origin - because it's hate speech, in a way, incidentally, that "Englishman" and "Scotsman" are not, which I think is why that doesn't work.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
13:24 / 17.01.07
Also bear in mind that for some people being called Scottish rather than English is more or less offensive.

Haus, do you mean "Scottish rather than British"? i.e. are you making a point about people who prefer to be seen as part of a nation rather than a (possibly ghettoised) social/racial group - i.e. if a black US national were to prefer to be described and identified as simply "American", not "African-American" (or for someone with Italian ancestry, Italian-American, etc.)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:34 / 17.01.07
Nope. I'm extrapolating from:

She said it was like calling a Scotsman 'Welsh', or an Eglishman 'American', or an Irish catholic 'Protestant' -only y'know, with more hatred and bloodshed between the two cultures.
 
 
Sniv
13:38 / 17.01.07
Okay, I'll just keep my mouth shut when it comes to things I have little experience in. Carry on...
 
 
Ganesh
14:42 / 17.01.07
Even if Shilpa were from Pakistan, the term 'Paki' carries with it a long history of racist connotation. It's a little like 'homo': ye-e-es it's the shortened form of 'homosexual' and I am homosexual but the term does not exist in a sociocultural vacuum, and if someone referred to me as a "fucking homo" I'd unsurprisingly consider that offensive.

Summarising people as nouns ("a Paki", "a homo") - particularly in abbreviated form - is potentially more offensive and certainly less neutral than using the same terms ("she's Pakistani", "he's homosexual") as adjectival descriptors.

We know all this, don't we?
 
  

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