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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Celebrity Big Brother 2007

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15:53 / 18.01.07

Yes, but I'm still wodering why other examples of bullying on Big Brother haven't led to calls for prosecution of individuals, or pulling the plug on the show. Going by the definition of 'harassment' in the 1997 act, I don't think this is the first example on the show.

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

15:55 / 18.01.07

Aside from the fact that it show's up the 3 shazzas to be utter scum bags, I think I agree with you Haus. Channel 4 have wasted a perfect opportunity to show some balls & have potentially done themselves huge financial damage in the process.

15:56 / 18.01.07

At which point, if the network refuses to cut it, which since the network is also the producer seems unlikely, it's possible the police should be involved, yes.

The network isn’t the producer, and Channel 4 could decided to stop broadcasting it regardless of what Endemol think, but if Andy Duncan’s statement is anything to go by, they won’t any time soon. Whether Andy Duncan will still be calling the shots at the end of the series is open to question though.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

15:57 / 18.01.07

From the C4 Statement:

"We have already intervened with Danielle and, as viewers will see tonight, again with Jade where we felt their comments might be construed to have racist overtones. Producers also spoke to Shilpa today who said she did not feel that behaviour towards her was racist.

"We will not hesitate to intervene again if apparently racist behaviour occurs.

Why Andy? Why would you intervene if 'apparently racist behaviour' happens if you're going to intervene next time and not now? That's not actually any kind of threat at all is it? It also follows that you will intervene in the same way as you did this time, which is to ask Shilpa to put up with it and the others not to be mean, so how is that supposed to reassure us that you take this seriously? You might as well just put out a statement that, as part of C4s remit to edgy television programming you're going to give regular airtime to the BNP to express their views on whatever subject they want, with no right-to-replys or any comeback. Because that would be 'edgy'.

The reason it commands so much attention, intentionally or unintentionally, is that it goes to the heart of who we are as individuals and as a society.

Fuck you. Don't you dare suggest this exercise has anything to do with who I am as an individual you mendacious prick.

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:57 / 18.01.07

That is a very good question. Because they were normal people? Because they did not have a fanbase who may have begun vocal protests? Because the Indian government has not been involved? I think there are certainly a number of differences, but I'm also curious as to whether two wrongs are expected to make a right here, in terms of non-intervention...

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:59 / 18.01.07

The above to Nighthawk.

The network isn’t the producer,

Yes, of course, sorry - brainstorm.

Flowers - I think that calling them to the Diary Room is the intervention which they will not hesitate to do again. Which does seem a bit weak.

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

16:00 / 18.01.07

time for a march on C4?

16:02 / 18.01.07

I'm also curious as to whether two wrongs are expected to make a right here, in terms of non-intervention...

Yes. I hope its clear that I'm not suggesting that. I'm just trying to clarify the nature of the perceived racism here, and the extent to which it differentiates events this week from other examples of bullying in the house. Should the show have been stopped because of the racism, or the bullying? Or maybe the distinction is ill-founded?

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

16:06 / 18.01.07

I don't think the show needs to be stopped to be honest. However CBB should remove the culprits from the house & leave the others to enjoy or not enjoy the remaining experience.

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

16:20 / 18.01.07

Was having a conversation with a tv producer today, who was expressing the opinion that BB may find it very hard to find willing celebrity housmates in the future if they didn't take tough decisive action.
Assuming that most celebrities go on CBB in an attempt to positively enhance thier careers, I would imagine that any artist management, worth thier salt, would strongly advise against taking part in the show at all.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

16:30 / 18.01.07

Danielle's lost an advertising contract.

16:53 / 18.01.07

What do people make of Shilpa's diary-room recording? Obviously,she has not been privy to the private conversations between Jade/Danielle/Joe, which might make her reasses this once she is out of the house. I guess we;ll just have to wait and see.

So even if I said it I would like you to please clarify and put this as a statement from my side if you can. That I don't feel there was any racial discrimination happening from Jade's end. Erm, I don't think that is true. That's it. I think that there are a lot of insecurities from her end but it's definitely not racial. So yeah, that's the way I feel.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

17:07 / 18.01.07

You do wonder whether Jade and Danielle and all will get their contracts back after a short while out of the spotlight, is their racist behaviour the same as Kate Moss's coke misadventures?

Jack The Bodiless

17:16 / 18.01.07

Well, yes. The whole justification from Channel 4 to date has revolved around a) that Shilpa hasn't made a complaint that she's been racially harrassed (she's not been privy to the comments made behind her back, so it's possible that in the cold light of day, with an opportunity to calm down, she's reluctant to throw around such an inflammatory statement against people she's got to live with the next nine days or so) and b) that the triumverate of nasty haven't actually made an overtly racist remark, this being a moveable feast depending on what you actually consider an overtly racist remark to be.

A sufficiently large cross-section of the British public have been interviewed or have thrown their two shillings in over the last week for us to be fairly confident that many do not think any of the three of them have made any racist remarks at all, although most have then qualified this with something along the lines of "but they're definitely ignorant/stupid/nasty/meanspirited/jealous/pinheaded." Radio 1 has been doing a poll all day with the yes/no question 'Are They Being Racist' and got an 80% no, 20% yes result. And of course the voxpoppers have been smart enough to ask plenty of people of Asian extraction or descent, as if that was a big fat QED to the whole question...

And the number of complaints has already been played down... they're arguing that the internet has caused people to make complaints purely on the basis of arguments on message boards like this and on DS:BB, without even having watched the show to make up their own minds.

17:16 / 18.01.07

Wow. Just...wow.

Taxi to Selfawaria for Miss Goody...

17:24 / 18.01.07

And the number of complaints has already been played down... they're arguing that the internet has caused people to make complaints purely on the basis of arguments on message boards like this and on DS:BB, without even having watched the show to make up their own minds.

This, I guess, while conveniently forgetting that thanks to the contoversy (arguably) generated at least in part by the internet, the ratings have shot up this week. As, in fact, have the complaints.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

17:25 / 18.01.07

OK, I think we're safely out of the grey area with that one.

Oh, I'm sure this will all blow over, Hellbunny, and Danielle and her mates will get their jobs back. Jade could be in a slightly trickier situation, what with her whole existence being bound up with reality TV.

I really hope they're all totally fucked until they do something to actively make amends, but you could well be right.

17:27 / 18.01.07

Also, did people here have similar reactions to Shahbaz's treatment in BB?

No. Shahbaz went out of his way on many occasions to provoke confrontation, systematically alienating those who had genuinely attempted to understand and befriend him, and employing an escalating series of aggravating stunts (from hiding food to threatening self-harm/suicide) to position himself centre-stage within House drama.

Shilpa has, if anything, gone out of her way to avoid confrontation, and been incredibly patient in the face of a huge amount of needling, both intentional and unintentional.

I don't think the two situations bear a great deal of comparison simply because the individuals concerned are both brown-skinned.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

17:34 / 18.01.07

I actually DID have a similar reaction to Shahbaz's treatment, despite his clearly being a wanker.

But I'm a wuss.

17:42 / 18.01.07

Oh yeah, sorry. Except for Stoatie.

17:58 / 18.01.07

I don't think the two situations bear a great deal of comparison simply because the individuals concerned are both brown-skinned.

No, and I didn't suggest that. I'm not sure why you brought it up really? Certainly the situation with Shahbaz was very different, but there were elements of harassment (the incidents I refered to above) and C4 could certainly have been expected to intervene more quickly and decisively than they in fact did. Its also not the only example of bullying or harassment on Big Brother, just the first one that came to mind.

18:03 / 18.01.07

No, and I didn't suggest that. I'm not sure why you brought it up really?

I didn't say you suggested it. I brought it up because I couldn't see many points of comparison other than a) accusations of bullying, and b) skin colour. Alleged bullying happens approximately every six minutes in Big Brother; alleged bullying with a possible racial angle is perhaps less frequent.

18:15 / 18.01.07

Aren't the differences here the ongoing, escalating nature of the bullying, and the fact that it's very much three on one? There have been factions in the past obviously, and fairly ugly disgreements between housemates, but I can't remember an individual being picked on by a group in quite such a systematic way before.

18:23 / 18.01.07

I guess I'm just not sure what people expected C4 to do here, and why they are so outraged that they have not done it. To a certain extent, if you buy the premise of BB, you have to allow events within the house to unfold with the minimum of outside interference, even when this means that dynamics that characterise plenty of social interaction outside the house, such as bullying, become prominent, with all the negative effects on individuals that that involves. I don't think anyone would claim that the Big Brother house is an easy or comfortable place to inhabit, psychologically anyway, and that's one of the reasons it makes for such great T.V.

So I'm not clear why the fact that there is a racist element to all this, albeit an element that's very much grounded in ignorance and stupidity rather than overt and conscious prejudice, means that all bets are suddenly off and the whole thing ought to be shut down. It can't just be because people are concerned about Shilpa's well-being, because other cases of bullying have been allowed to pan out without fans of the show calling for everything from intervention to prosecution (this last has particularly confused me). It makes for uncomfortable viewing, but so have other situations on Big Brother.

I'm not saying that people are wrong to be so conerned, I'm just trying to understand the logic behind it. I'm certainly not persuaded that screening this is somehow analagous to, for example, giving the BNP space to say whatever they want without any possibility of criticism or reply.

18:33 / 18.01.07

Is anyone here saying the whole thing should be shut down? Maybe; I'm not, though.

I think I'm in agreement that there's something inconsistent about the fact that this particular instance of racism is being held up us damnable quite as much when Endomol and C4 have allowed others to slip through - and I'm thinking of Craig's bizarre Engerland song from a couple of years back, as well as Maxwell and Saskia. Perhaps it's this particular combination: systematic bullying-with-a-racist-twist? I'm not sure that it's ever been this clear-cut before. I suspect there's also slightly less compunction to protect celebrities from the consequences of their onscreen behaviour than with 'civilians' - live by the sword, etc.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

18:34 / 18.01.07

To a certain extent, if you buy the premise of BB, you have to allow events within the house to unfold with the minimum of outside interference

I think that even before the racist shit, that basic premise had been undermined, to be honest.

18:36 / 18.01.07

I think there's also a tension between the demands placed on broadcasting generally (not giving airtime to racism without intervention) and the demands of reality TV (that it reflect reality, including racism). There are presumably also legal factors; if Endemol fails to intervene in racist attack, could it be viewed as condoning the attack or even some sort of accessory?

18:43 / 18.01.07

By allowing individuals who, lest we forget they're actually paying to be there, to get away with making assertions like 'she should just fuck off home' without censure, aren't the production company tacitly saying that this kind of behaviour's acceptable? I'm not saying the show should be shut down over the head of this, but I do think the producers should have stepped in much earlier, and that for failing to have done so, they should be given a severe, career-damaging punch in the face by Ofcom.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

18:46 / 18.01.07

Yes, didn't nasty Nigel get kicked out early in BB1 for his behaviour?

18:46 / 18.01.07

Presumably intervention from the producers would mean pulling Danielle out after she made that comment? Or taking her to task more severely in the diary room?

18:55 / 18.01.07

Yes, didn't nasty Nigel get kicked out early in BB1 for his behaviour?

Nasty Nick? Yeah, but he got pulled for breaking the influencing-nominations rules rather than anything with actual sociocultural significance.

19:06 / 18.01.07

I think an early talking-to in the Diary room would have been enough to curb the racist excesses. The producers pretty clearly failed to do this because of the ratings though, as opposed to any high-minded ideas they might have had about reflecting British society.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:06 / 18.01.07

Granny's right, you know.

19:08 / 18.01.07

Yep.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:12 / 18.01.07

Cleo actually nominated Shilpa?

Wow. Let's see how this happened. I'm not sure I want to fight Hellbunny for her anymore.

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