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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Celebrity Big Brother 2007

  
  

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STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:07 / 17.01.07
Anyone else thinking there was a strange lag in that - like they told Danielle something off-camera? Weird that she went from kinda cheerful/bored to crying, innit?

That was certainly the impression I got from the live feed last night, yes.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
20:07 / 17.01.07
Yeah, and again with the reference to a 'culture-clash.' I'm sure Danielle's a lovely girl, not like this when she's at home with Teddy and so on, but hasn't there been a degree of coaching here? From Dermot O'Leary onwards, it's been like a mantra since the controversy started.
 
 
Sleeperservice
20:09 / 17.01.07
I can't wait for one of the 'witches of eastwick' to be evicted. Do you think they'll even have an audience? Full body scanners required if they do me thinks.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:09 / 17.01.07
I've been wondering for a few days now. Where does a "culture clash" end and "racism" begin?

It's like that thin like between "sexist" and "sexy", isn't it?
 
 
penitentvandal
20:12 / 17.01.07
seriously. start an effigy campaign
call the local media.
have some well thought out stuff to say.


I'd love too, toksik, but (a) I were proper shit at art at school, so probably couldn't make even a basic effigy - certainly not one that looks like Jade 'the Banshee Silverback' Goody - and, (b), 'well thought out stuff to say'? What in the history of my posts here suggests to you that I could manage anything more than Ben Stiller in Mystery Men style ranting about what I'd do to Jade if I got her in an alley? I'd get myself arrested, mate; it wouldn't help the cause.
 
 
Ganesh
20:13 / 17.01.07
I can't wait for one of the 'witches of eastwick' to be evicted.

'Sgonna happen soon.

The whole "she's just a product of her background and upbringing" argument only really goes so far. The same could be said of Fred West. BBBM is pissing me off.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:15 / 17.01.07
The whole "she's just a product of her background and upbringing" argument only really goes so far. The same could be said of Fred West.

Same goes for the "Danielles's got it with a bad crowd" bullshit.

F'fuck's sake, the pair of you. You're adults. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN SHIT.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:16 / 17.01.07
The fact that Shilpa's said, in conversation with Cleo, that she thinks this is racism would seem to cut across the statement that Shilpa herself hasn't complained about this. She may not have formally complained about it in the Diary Room but she clearly believes it is racially-motivated.

Cleo's pissing me off. It may be true that none of the girls is "a racist" but they're certainly being racist. The noun/adjective thing again.



Oh dear... I just sat on my sofa saying exactly the same thing on both counts, using virtually the same words. How far we've come, Ganesh!
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:19 / 17.01.07
When's the next vote going to be? I fear I'm falling for C4's game hock, line and sinker but I'm going to want to vote any of the racist fuckers out when the time comes...
 
 
Ganesh
20:19 / 17.01.07
How far we've come, Ganesh!

And simultaneously!
 
 
Ganesh
20:22 / 17.01.07
When's the next vote going to be? I fear I'm falling for C4's game hock, line and sinker but I'm going to want to vote any of the racist fuckers out when the time comes...

Well, checking the above link, it would appear that "the two housemates nominated for eviction this week will be Goody and Shetty, following an overwhelming vote from their fellow Celebrity Big Brother contestants" - which seems somewhat convenient...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:32 / 17.01.07
Ah, Big Brother... "making cold hard cash out of a racial divide".
 
 
nighthawk
20:35 / 17.01.07
Yeah, and again with the reference to a 'culture-clash.' I'm sure Danielle's a lovely girl, not like this when she's at home with Teddy and so on, but hasn't there been a degree of coaching here? From Dermot O'Leary onwards, it's been like a mantra since the controversy started.

I'm not sure its coaching, more a convergence in the way people think about 'racism' these days: something that's basically overcome in society at large except for particular individuals who are (recognisable, card-carrying BNP style) racists. Everything else is just a 'clash of cultures'.


I'm amazed by Danielle's ability to fit herself exactly to the mood of the situation. The 'f'off home' comment came after hours of egging each other on, conspiratorial giggling, etc., perfectly suited to the general tone of their conversation by that point. And then she hears it repeated outside that context, realise how awful she sounded, and becomes apologetic and remorseful, because again its what the situation demands.


Also, I feel like calling out velvet FREAKIN' vandal for this post (has it been edited?). I mean, as far as I can see, you say that Jade isn't feminine enough; worse, that her masculinity is working class; and that she was, god forbid, having sex while Shilpa was off doing much more classy things (I mean, sure Shilpa's acheived a lot, but why use having sex as your counter-point there? Is that what women who happen to be both ignorant and working-class do?). Just seemed a bit odd when the last few pages of this thread have been dominated by discussion of ignorance in the house.
 
 
Ganesh
20:40 / 17.01.07
I'm not sure its coaching, more a convergence in the way people think about 'racism' these days: something that's basically overcome in society at large except for particular individuals who are (recognisable, card-carrying BNP style) racists. Everything else is just a 'clash of cultures'.

I think it's also a way of generally calming the situation without having to take sides. See also 'they're as bad as each other' applied to grossly unequal conflicts like Israel/Palestine. Fence-sitting.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:41 / 17.01.07
BUGGER.

I think I just Godwinned myself on Digital Spy.

I should sleep.
 
 
haus of fraser
20:41 / 17.01.07
Wouldn't votes be better cast complaining to ofcom? The website is currently down due to the overwelming number of complaints- i do think that there may be more than 20,000 complaints by the end of the week.

I hated the BB cop out whilst talking to Danielle- a perfect opertunity to call the witches & Jack into the diary room individually and point out that this kind of talk is totally inappropiate- address the issues and win back some credability.

I am fairly appaled at how this is handled- an employee working under these conditions would have a very very strong case for racial abuse i'm sure. Yet to Channel 4 its just a culture clash- surely just the thing a guilty boss would say when accused of the same thing.
 
 
penitentvandal
20:49 / 17.01.07
Actually, I have called for the post to be moderated, specifically to remove my threats of violence against Jade, which, a calmer head having asserted itself, I do feel somewhat bad about.

Do I dislike Jade for being 'unfeminine' and 'working class'? I doubt Jade has done a days real work in her life, prior to losing BB3, and, as someone raised by working class parents in a northern, coal-mining town,I have to say that the working class people I know would also disapprove of Jade's behaviour. The lumpenproletariat is not representative of the proletariat, basically, and you can be a member of the proletariat and criticise lumpenproletariat behaviour.

Do I think it's better to be making films than having underage sex? Well, yes. Objectively so. Underage sex creates greater risks of STDs, unwanted pregnancies, and general misery. Films tend to create lines at the popcorn stand. Unless you have a fairly odd position on popcorn, it's hard to see how you could object to that.

Incidentally, myself and Mrs V have began another campaign tack, e-mailing Heat magazine and informing them we (well, Mrs V, never buy the damn thing myself hem hem) will not buy another issue featuring a cover story, interview with, or article about the troika. If enough people do this, another avenue might be closed to Jade et al to disseminate their views.
 
 
penitentvandal
20:54 / 17.01.07
Incidentally,

I'm amazed by Danielle's ability to fit herself exactly to the mood of the situation. The 'f'off home' comment came after hours of egging each other on, conspiratorial giggling, etc., perfectly suited to the general tone of their conversation by that point. And then she hears it repeated outside that context, realise how awful she sounded, and becomes apologetic and remorseful, because again its what the situation demands.

One could say the same about Tony Blair. Apologising 'because the situation demands' it is not necessarily praiseworthy if the apology is purely given to save your own skin.
 
 
penitentvandal
21:02 / 17.01.07
That said, having heard my words repeated out of context, I now realise how awful I sound, and would describe myself as both remorseful and apologetic.
 
 
Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns
21:04 / 17.01.07
Shit V are you seriously telling me that you're not up for giving Jade a gig in the 'kebab'?! I was counting on you, but now I'll have to do it my way. Bring forth the BATLLE PIG (a big track with some carboard painted pink & a boxing glove stuck to the front). That Goody is dust!

Not to sure about your film making analogy, but I guess your coming from the right place. Emailed Ofcom today, really disapointed at the way C4 are handling the situation to be frank. Fucking vile.
 
 
Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns
21:06 / 17.01.07
sorry 'bout the spelling by the way, I'm a lazy drunk most of the tyne. AAGGGGHHH!
 
 
penitentvandal
21:07 / 17.01.07
You drunk most of the Tyne? That's the potential suicides who jump off the bridge every week fucked, then.

Or not fucked, should one wish them success.
 
 
penitentvandal
21:09 / 17.01.07
Bring forth the BATLLE PIG

Now, a Bataille Pig, that I would be up for attacking her with. Sado-masochistic surrealism go!
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:21 / 17.01.07
Who whoa whoa wha-ha-hoa there, fuckpig! Who in the house is actually famous only for losing? Who lost Big Brother 3? Why, Jade. Jadey Jadey Jadey Jade. It was you, wasn't it? Why yes, yes it was. You lost BB3 and that's what you're famous for. Who won? Why, it was Kate Lawler, wasn't it? Who you hated? Because she wasn't like a docker with too many x-chromosomes? MMMMMM, yes. Indeed. What did Santayana say about history, Jade? You won't know, obviously. He said those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it. Like you, Jade. Pissing all your credibility up a race-hate tree and repeating the mistakes that LOST you the last Big Brother you were in.

Shilpa's a loser? A woman who speaks six languages, is a black belt in karate and has made like fifty films while you were being taken by fairground attendants behind the fucking octopus ride? A loser? No, Jade. You're the loser.

A two-time loser, baby, and there ain't a damn thing worse.

[...]

Do I dislike Jade for being 'unfeminine' and 'working class'?


Well, the previous post criticised Jade for being unfeminine and a "loser", nothing to do with working-classness. Ironically, I think it could be suggested that Kate Lawler's success was due to her tapping into the then-popular "geezerbird" social stereotype ~ attractively girly but laddish, matching the guys pint for pint, understanding the offside rule, you know the general received idea. I'd say Jo O'Meara might even fit the same template this year (she and Kate look like they'd get on on a night out in Southend).

I don't think it's accurate to say Jade is famous for losing Big Brother. Does everyone who fails to win Big Brother "lose"? That's not, I think, the way it's usually seen. Rather, the final three are all treated as winners of a sort, and I've never heard anyone except perhaps the earliest evictees described as doing "badly". It's technically a game-show, but I think by now we know you don't have to win it to guarantee yourself far more financial success than the official prize, and far more fame than the official last housemate.

Jade Goody was mostly famous for her amusing ignorant outbursts, I thought. I don't like the way she's coming across in this show one bit, and I'm annoyed at the fame and fortune of someone with so little talent and so many unpleasant features, but I don't think she's notorious for losing BB3.




I doubt Jade has done a days real work in her life, prior to losing BB3

Dental nurse, apparently.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:26 / 17.01.07
And yes, you do seem to be saying that Jade's worthless partly because she was some sort of... can I use the word without endorsing it? "slapper" (having sex with multiple, implied-random guys, outside, in a tacky, ludicrous, traditionally working-class setting, in what your scenario suggests are humiliating, rushed couplings).

I'm sure I'm unpacking the stuff about the Octopus Ride too deeply, but to be honest, you are just imagining some backstory where Jade Goody was, again, if I can use the term, the "town bike" or something... a totally imaginary backstory, which you're then judging her on based on an invented promiscuity.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
21:27 / 17.01.07
I bet thousands of brown-skinned girls in Southall fell off the sofa laughing when she did that.

I bet they fucking didn't, Germaine.

Also, imaginary mice - I am English-speaking English (or British if you will) and I do tend to think of and refer to Continental Europe as simply "Europe" because
a) it's shorter
b) I think of it in linguistic, national and geographical terms, not federal/political ones (the first particularly relevant because I was making a point about language/accent barriers).
The British Isles, after all, are just that; separated from (Continental) Europe by a wide body of water - in terms of a connection to the landmass Britain isn't a part of it, and psychologically and politically, British people tend to be less invested in the idea of themselves as "Europeans". Not necessarily a good or bad thing, just a thing - and I'm damn sure it's to do with simple geography.

I don't, physically, see Britain as a part of Europe any more than I do Iceland, and yet politically both are - and even in this age of cross-continental air travel, Eurotunnel etc., it's not instinctive for me, as a member of an island nation, to think of myself as a European as opposed to an English or British person.

(And I bet a hell of a lot of French, German, Dutch, Italian, Belgian, Danish, Austrian, Spanish etc. people feel the same).
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:31 / 17.01.07
What I'm trying to say, Velvet Vandal, and sorry if I seemed to be hammering at it because I agree with you that Jade is repulsive ~ is that there's enough wrong with her, without making things up and putting her down based on things that you imagine she might have done, and which are maybe based on dodgy ground (such as a young woman being a loser because she has a certain kind of sex).
 
 
Alex's Grandma
21:43 / 17.01.07
'Little Brain' or whatever it's called, has always been the least tolerable aspect of the franchise, but did anyone else see this evening's episode? It was a bit much, really. To kick off this section of the show, a visibly uncomfortable O'Leary asked the studio audience if they thought Shilpa was being bullied - apparently not, was the verdict; 'Oh that's a surprise!' he wilted, before going on to interview a psychologist from a university in London (the qualifications weren't specified) who was young, afro-carribean and female, about Shilpa's manipulative behaviour. Of which there was lots, according to the expert, 'inappropriate touching' and so forth, 'a lack of understanding of cultural boundaries', as if Shilpa was some sort of dirty, intrusive, international germ-carrier. Well fair enough, one might argue, she wasn't born here, was she, but on the other hand, the clips shown, entirely out of context, were all about Shilpa. There didn't seem to be anything about Jade's part in the situation at all.

As a UK citizen I should be used to this, I suppose, the mendacity, the bullshit, the utter refusal for anyone involved to take responsibility for mistakes that actually have genuine social consequences, beyond the narrow field of the next election/TV production contract, but I was still a bit stunned.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
21:44 / 17.01.07
And, sorry, back on topic - Jade's appalling outburst during Oxogate was both terrifying and ridiculous. I absolutely did not think I would see her lose her shit so utterly on television. I think (hope) she's just done herself some serious and pretty irreversible damage.

Shilpa, on the other hand, is probably going to be hosting her own chatshow well before the year is out. Well done Goody - every word out of your unpleasant mouth makes Shilpa's self-control in not smacking you upside the head, or even telling you to fuck right off (now *that's* restraint) all the more extraordinary and admirable.

Oh, Jadeclaws ... you are your own worst enemy and Shilpa's secret Santa. And you're too dense to realise it.
 
 
Ganesh
21:48 / 17.01.07
... a psychologist from a university in London (the qualifications weren't specified) who was young, afro-carribean and female, about Shilpa's manipulative behaviour. Of which there was lots, according to the expert, 'inappropriate touching' and so forth, 'a lack of understanding of cultural boundaries', as if Shilpa was some sort of dirty, intrusive, international germ-carrier.

She was shit, wasn't she? I particularly liked her example of Shilpa's suspiciously inconsistent behaviour: she's got servants and she applies facial hair bleaching cream as an act of deliberate self-humiliation (as opposed to an act of deliberate facial hair bleaching).
 
 
Alex's Grandma
21:59 / 17.01.07
I doubt Jade has done a days real work in her life, prior to losing BB3, and, as someone raised by working class parents in a northern, coal-mining town,I have to say that the working class people I know would also disapprove of Jade's behaviour. The lumpenproletariat is not representative of the proletariat, basically, and you can be a member of the proletariat and criticise lumpenproletariat behaviour.

And there were seven of you in carboard box in the middle of t'motorway, I suppose.

I normally enjoy your posts, VV, but this is nonsense surely? I'm not sure if Jade stands for anything except herself - don't, man, bring Marx into what's already a fairly fraught situation, please.
 
 
Ganesh
22:12 / 17.01.07
It's interesting that two female commentators have made a point of Shilpa's use of facial hair bleach, Psychology ArseBiscuit Woman seeing it as suspicious self-debasement and Germaine Greer as intentional provocation.

I'm dimly aware that it's not uncommon for women from the Indian subcontinent to use bleaching or hair removal products in this way, but it'd be nice to hear something more definitive from someone who knows about this stuff.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:38 / 17.01.07
Having just been over that article, I think at this stage Germaine Greer has to be pitied, more than anything else. It's not hard to imagine Burchill, Parsons, Hornby and Littlejohn sitting about in some candlelit sewer of a cocktail joint chanting 'one of us ... one of us!' as the former feminist icon makes her way, stumbling, down the stairs to the door marked 'Abandon Hope ...' which is always there at the bottom, in all walks of life.
 
 
Ganesh
23:13 / 17.01.07
Over on Digital Spy, they're referring to Jack as an "oxygen thief". I'm going to steal that.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:17 / 17.01.07
Yes, it was disquieting to see Germaine Greer exposing the dark, hateful underbelly of... Germaine Greer.
 
  

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