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Doctor Who: Season 2 UK

 
  

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sleazenation
13:33 / 02.07.06
I really liked the bit where the Doctor, when confronted by the prospect of having to face a load of well armed soldiers, insists on going to meet them unarmed because it gives him the moral high ground and makes him the better person...
 
 
Triplets
14:32 / 02.07.06
Hang on. If the Doctor and Rose went to 2012 for the games, why wasn't there any record of a massive Cyberdalek invasion?
 
 
sleazenation
15:11 / 02.07.06
or indeed, why wasn't the man who invented the internet aware of what a Dalek was...
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
15:30 / 02.07.06
You're not thinking fourth-dimensionally...
 
 
sleazenation
16:34 / 02.07.06
Or perhaps multidimensionally...

But this raises the question of whether or not the Doctor used to travel through realities during the time of the timelords... and what was E-space exactly?
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
19:54 / 02.07.06
Not exactly a story here at all here, is there? Just a half of a fantasy story with Cybermen fighting Daleks... for WHAT reason? It's a shame because it would have been great to examine the implications of the dead returning, the afterlife as a dimension, all that stuff. Here it's just bundled aside for an alien invasion.

However, under Graeme Harper's direction it looked gorgeous, didn't it? And aside from one or two 'quirky zany look-at-me' moments, David Tennant 'felt' like the Doctor for perhaps the first time. His tackling of the problem, thrown together technology solution, dealing with beurocracy, etc were all 'Doctor-ish.' In many ways, it felt like the Classic Series. Don't get me wrong, the new series certainly doesn't HAVE to echo the old, but this second season hasn't exactly been burning a new trail of innovation as the first season had (in my opinion) so the echo was welcome.

The Ghostbusters ref was just tacky and annoying. Does the Doctor just watch TV and films all the time? Why is he (under the RTD banner) a child of pop culture? Done in small parts, I have nothing against it as these references can make the character more appealing and easier to relate to for a new audience. But the level at which the references have been made, including the Muppet Movie, The Lion King, and now Ghostbusters, kills the alien side of the Doctor completely. And I'm convinced the donning of 3-D glasses was Tennant's idea. So... the Doctor is a zany clown with a subscription to Netflix now?

And having Rose narrate (why is Rose suddenly narrating?) the intro about her death kind of kills the possibility of her actually dying, doesn't it? Granted, it made me very curious about what will happen to her, but... why lead us down a fake alley?

It was great to see Mickey Smith return as he was possibly the best thing about the Cybermen two-parter earlier this year. After such a strong re-introduction of the Cybermen, I'd be pleased if something interesting got done with them before they disappear into nothingness again as I assume they will after this story.

"The Eternals called it the howling." Always pleased to see a well-placed reference to the old series and to such an excellent idea as the Eternals from Enlightenment. In fact, the Void Ship was just amazing. Really great stuff. Ordinarily I'd be excited to see the Daleks, but as Doctor Who seldom does action well (with the exception of the amazing Dalek war last year), I can't get all that worked up about them.

Harper's (not Graeme) bouncy boobs competed with her bouncy hair to distract me from what Torchwood was doing... not that I'm complaining. It seemed that they were hand-cranking a magical doorway to another universe for 15 minute shifts so 'ghosts' can enter our world... and clapping a lot. And they're making a whole series on this concept?

But none of my negative or positive comments really matter since this is just part one of a two-parter. Anything can happen next week... but it will probably involve lots of shouting and the firing of laser beams leading to explosions which cause people to fall down or leap 8 feet into the air as they get shot... just guessing.

I need to rewatch this one to catch the joy that I missed.
 
 
Triplets
20:28 / 02.07.06
Did anyone else spot the Fear Forecasters when the Cybermen came crashing into that house? Thought that was a nice touch.
 
 
Lama glama
20:42 / 02.07.06
Was that Samuel that was about to be deleted by a Cyberman at the top of the stairs?

Unlike Mister Six, I absolutely loved the ghostbusters stuff and the 3D glasses. I can forgive pop references from this Doctor, as it just seems to be another aspect of his personality traits..much like his tendency of utilising the ludicrous or odd to appear as if he knows what he's doing. The 3D glasses are an example of this.

It's just a case of harking back to the era of "would you like a jelly baby?" without being explicit by directly using that line. Odd, unexplainable behaviour is a part of the character of the Doctor.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
20:58 / 02.07.06
It's a shame because it would have been great to examine the implications of the dead returning,

Why? What do you envisage? I think it would have been an anxiety ridden, depressing episode full of people sobbing as the Doctor took their loved ones away. The Cybermen seem much more exciting to me.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
20:59 / 02.07.06
Also the 3D glasses rocked my world.
 
 
Ganesh
21:11 / 02.07.06
It's just a case of harking back to the era of "would you like a jelly baby?" without being explicit by directly using that line. Odd, unexplainable behaviour is a part of the character of the Doctor.

But it wasn't odd or inexplicable. It was a straightforward joke about Ghostbusters. I found it a bit tiresome.

I got a real sense of His Dark Materials from the start of this episode: doorways between parallel universes, wraiths/the dead returning through those doorways, energy generated (sort of) from ghosts, the afterlife (sort of) turning out to be another dimension.
 
 
Billuccho!
21:12 / 02.07.06
Did anyone else spot the Fear Forecasters when the Cybermen came crashing into that house? Thought that was a nice touch.

Was it? I didn't think it was them.

Anyway, I think Tennant's geeky pop culturey 3-D glasses Doctor is terrific.
 
 
penitentvandal
00:21 / 03.07.06
I actually had a theory a long time ago that the Daleks WERE the Vorlon

No, the Daleks are the Shadows, if anything - Nietzschean, change-through-conflict, let's-build-a-master-race types who think nothing of kicking the shit out of the universe every ten thousand years or so. The Vorlon are what the Timelords would be with cosmic-level powers - paternalistic God-figures who want the universe to evolve but only as long as all the races play nice and do what the Vorlons tell 'em. Obviously, in this reading GoldKosh would be the Doctor, as he feels closer to the flesh races than the rest and, in fact, eventually helps them best the other Vorlon.* This also makes Sheridan, Sinclair and Delenn a team of companions...

* Important to point out here that this does not make PurpleKosh the Master. The Master, like the Doctor (only more so), is individualistic and follows his own agenda, which is a decidedly unVorlon thing to do.
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:10 / 03.07.06
Important to point out here that this does not make PurpleKosh the Master.

That'd be Morden/Bester.

What're fear forecasters, if it isn't spoilery?
 
 
Tom Coates
10:17 / 03.07.06
I get the impression that the Doctor picks up information wherever he goes - almost whether he wants to or not. That's how I understand the pop culture stuff anyway - that he throws it out there the same way he says, "that's a hooha sun glider" or whatever. Loved the 3d glasses too, but wondered if there was a point to them or whether they were throwaway. Also loved the episode generally and the failure of the psychic paper. Nice to see that doesn't always work. Was a bit cross about psychic paper as RFID thing, but what are you going to do?

Can't wait for next week's episode.
 
 
Lama glama
10:58 / 03.07.06
The Fear Forecasters are a bunch of children that give their reactions to episodes of Doctor Who and then give them a fear factor rating out of five. Their reviews can be found on the main website before transmission in an edited form and afterwards in full detail.

The main website has updated early this week with a particularly impressive front page. Teaser trailers will also be appearing on BBC throughout the week, probably at 7pm. For those that miss them, they're available for download from the main site.
 
 
Bed Head
11:37 / 03.07.06
A week of teaser trailers, boo. One was enough, auntie. Now, replace lid and leave geeks to stew.

Did anyone else spot the Fear Forecasters when the Cybermen came
crashing into that house? Thought that was a nice touch.


Really? Reallyreallyreallyreally? Oh, bless. That’s about the best thing ever, even better than having a Blue Peter monster. I already thought that bit was tops - actually, about the scariest bit in the episode - a whole army of cybermen clanging and stomping about in Canary Wharf is, y’know, cool, but obviously it’s way scarier to see a single Cyberman suddenly appearing in yr house with the clear intention of strangulating your mum and dad without any nonsense or wordy cyber-threat stuff. It's nice when the telly writers remember to do basic stuff like that, I think. It only takes a moment.

I was convinced it was going to be Captain Jack hiding and waiting in the big silver ball. As in, they all think it’s an eeeeevil silver ball! But no, look, here’s Jack to save the day, hurrah!1, credits roll/geeks squee etc. So the daleks were a surprise to me, but were still only a bit Daleks, pshhh. And now I don’t think 45 minutes is going to be enough for all that’s got to fit into the last episode. But then, I said that about Parting Of The Ways...
 
 
couch
11:46 / 03.07.06
I've had a thought of how the Rose thing is going to go down. (No spoilers, I know nothing, beyond what I pickup psychically wandering about Cardiff -- and by wandering around, I mean moping in the house.)

Jackie had a conversation with Rose in the Tardis that went along the lines of "In 40 years time, you'll be wondering about some alien market, but you wont be you, you wont even be human".

I reccon thats forshadowing.

I think that The Docs gonna find some way to regenerate a dead Rose.

How many other Companions got killed off on screen? I can remember Earthshock, but I cant think of any others.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:57 / 03.07.06
Captain Jack: Is he not a really shit character though? I admittedly only saw bits of Season One, but from the episodes I did see with him in it, he just seemed like a really tedious generic space captain with an American accent and a self-consciously "edgy" bisexual aspect tacked on to make him more interesting. It felt as if they just wrote him in to do "action bits" that the Doctor wasn't cut out for, which made my teeth ache slightly. Was there more to him than that? I know that there's the whole thing of having a non-heterosexual character in a teatime BBC drama series, which is all fair enough, but is there actually anything to the character beyond that political statement? Is it really a good thing that he's being brought back for his own series?
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
12:11 / 03.07.06
I feel with Captain Jack it really depends on who's writing him. The WW2 two-parter was his best showing, I think, the charm and bravery of The Doctor with sex and better technology. Subsequent characterisations have been a bit one note, like the Roger Moore James Bond (Smutty quip, violence, smutty quip, violence...) I like the way John Barrowman plays him.
I'm amused by the fact that the Cybermen's rubbishness is acknowledged by there being a whole planetful of them and only 3 Daleks, and it still looks like an unfair fight...
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:22 / 03.07.06
I missed the WW2 episode so that may be the problem. I saw him in a couple of other episodes and it just seemed to be: running and jumping and shooting guns, amusing quip alluding to unexpected sexual preferences, running and jumping and shooting guns some more, yet another quip in case you didn't pick up on the character's sexuality the first time round, etc... I was hoping there was more to him than that if he's going to have his own show.
 
 
Evil Scientist
12:30 / 03.07.06
and only 3 Daleks

Well, the Daleks have had a bit of an upgrade in the new series, what with the force fields and what have you. Understandable really as they had to be tough enough to go up against the Timelords (and these do look like Time War era Daleks).

Uber-tech Daleks vrs overwhelming Cyberzombie hordes. It'll be groovy.

I'm still loving the sound-effects of the Cybermen marching down corridors. Just imagining trying to run away from them with that pounding stomp-stomp filling your ears, knowing they'll drag you back to their slice-n-dice surgical tools if they catch you. Nasty.

Daleks just want your cells. Cybermen take your soul.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
13:45 / 03.07.06
It's a shame because it would have been great to examine the implications of the dead returning,

Anna: "Why? What do you envisage? I think it would have been an anxiety ridden, depressing episode full of people sobbing as the Doctor took their loved ones away. The Cybermen seem much more exciting to me."

For one thing if they had developed the idea of the dead returning, the story would have actually been about something rather than just a lead-in to next week. As it stands it's just BAM ghosts are all over, BAM Rose has a dead granddad, BAM they're on telly too! BAM they're Cybermen. There are opportunities for humor as well as pathos here, as evidenced by having a 'ghost' appear on Eastenders. The Cybermen returning IS more exciting, but it's a one note event, not a story at all.

Why just drop a killer idea like loved ones coming back from the grave if you have no intention of using it?? In dem olden days this would have been a two-parter story at least (with the end of part two involving Cybermen returning). It's annoying to have such a ripe story idea bubble into the background.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
14:17 / 03.07.06
I thought the ghosts returning thing was a bit lacklustre really. Whereas I loved the whole "bootprint doesnt look like a boot" concept that the ghosts were really cybermen pushing through to this reality. That's a great idea and was my favourite thing about the episode. Much better than just making it a straight-up ghost story in my opinion.
 
 
Saveloy
14:25 / 03.07.06
Yeah, the deception aspect of it is a neat idea in itself, and the sudden slam into physicality was *brilliant*. When they achieved the crisp edges and the stompy weight - hugely satisfying.

Was the viewer meant to be surprised that the ghosts turned out to be cybermen? Even without spoilers I thought it must have become pretty obvious from the moment that the first cyberman was revealed (when the first Torchwood couple were nabbed, IIRC).

My son was surprised by the Daleks though - ooh yes! Literally leaping up and down with enchuffment.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:01 / 03.07.06
But the idea is that people want to believe that the dead are returning, so they are tolerating the ghosts, imagining that they can "feel" their loved one's characteristics from them, not asking the difficult questions - hence Jackie's "You're ruining it" - the Doctor is there to shatter that suspension of disbelief, and to trace the ghosts back to the core themes of the Tennant Doctor Who - organisations made up of good people doing bad things, the glory and the consequnces of human adventurousness and curiosity, and, of course, capitalism being shit. It's worth noting that, just like the explorers in The Satan Pit, Torchwood are seeking power to fuel an empire - Torchwood built upwards, the survey team built downwards. The survey team discovered the Devil, a monster who claimed to be from before time. Torchwood found something from outside time, which created manifestations comparable to "guardian angels" - the returned spirits of the happy dead. See also the Gelth - Nine trusted them and tried to help them. Ten(nant) distrusted these ghosts instinctively.

If you want to go deeper on that, think of the "I was a dad" line, and the sudden switch away. Ten(nant) has ghosts alll around him, and when presented with the idea that they might come back he is horrified and sets out at once to prove that that isn't what's happening at all. Nine was tortured by the death of the Time Lords. Ten feels more like he is running away from thinking about it. Take that a bit further and maybe the whole "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry" thing becomes a bit clearer - he's sorry because on his own he is never powerful enough to end things without fatalities - as Nine found out in "Father's Day"; the Time Lords could have sorted it out, but without them the only option was the death of Rose's father or the end of the world, ultimately. The Time Lords used to keep the gates open between universes, but now they can only be crossed by violence. And Ten has had to stop quite being a Time Lord to try to make up for their absence - see ASH saying that he was not like the average Time Lord, and Ten replying that he used to have so much mercy. Tie _that_ in to the Sycorax and no second chances...

Hmmm. I don't know - the more I think about it, the more similar Nine and Ten seem to be.


Hmmm. I don't know
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
15:09 / 03.07.06
Very interesting ideas, Haus.

I'm looking forward to seeing you flesh this out more.
 
 
e-n
15:23 / 03.07.06
afTer just watching this I'm all F**K YEAH!!

I had to of course come here and catch up, and now after seeing this:

"My son was surprised by the Daleks though - ooh yes! Literally leaping up and down with enchuffment."

My F**K YEAH! has been tempered into and "awwww...feckin yeah" and I can get some sleep.Thanks you.

I really didn't think we actually would see Daleks and Cybermen. Wow.

Can I also say that in thre opening scenes Rose and the doctor chillin on amn alian planet was REALLY well done.
This single moment managed what a whole episode of "New Earth" couldn't, Rose's wonder at her fist trip to another planet.

Can't wait till the weekend!
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:45 / 03.07.06
According to the commentary, the 3-d specs do have a point, unless thats RTD playing with us. It's hard to be completely sure whether the Daleks and Cybermen are working together or against one another. The only way I can see the Doctor and possibly his companions walking out alive is if they destroy one another first. As the Daleks are robots with fleshy insides the Cybermen might consider them upgraded, but the Daleks don't usually play well with others.

The Cybermen were only taking advantage of the rift the Rift Ship made, so whatever reasons the Daleks came through for, the Cybermen might be in the way. And what if they've picked up the distress call from the Dalek from season one before Van Statten got his hands on it, or what if one Dalek barely survives to be that Dalek?
 
 
iamus
16:50 / 03.07.06
I think you might be nailing it there, Haus.

Hmmm. I don't know - the more I think about it, the more similar Nine and Ten seem to be.

I think it has to be taken into account that this series is a very different beast to the old Dr. Who, I don't think that regeneration into a new Doctor means the same thing that it did. The original series' runs existed in a very different telly environment. Who's pretty much unlimited run meant it could do things that can't be done now.... like eight part, self-contained stories, daily (that's right isn't it? It's been a good while) transmissions, and complete changes of tack from Doctor to Doctor.

In today's TV market, it's a bit of an anomaly for a series to run for more than seven/eight seasons, and though the Dr. is really popular again, he's not really the national institution he once was. I've been wondering for quite a bit, just how long this is going to run for.

At any rate, I think it forces a greater character-continuity between Doctors, because there is a larger story in sight here that doesn't have infinite time to be told. Eccleston and Tennant are essentially the same man with the same troubles under their skin, it's the way they express themselves to the world that's changed.



Eccleston was a bit hard-faced, done in by what he'd seen and done in the Time War, haunted by the fact that he was alone (and like you said, the fact he can't save everybody) and that totally tortured him. He delighted in the wee fan-tastic things, but I think primarily, when he looked out at the world, he saw a big fucked-up mess and no other option but to keep chipping away at it, healing it bit by bit even though it might be hopeless.

The main thing that keeps him going is Rose, because he sees in her the very things he finds most precious in the universe, the things he fights the monsters for. When he meets her, he's travelling alone and he's not keen on taking her with him, he thinks he deserves to be that way because he wouldn't be able to keep her safe. But Rose proves herself to The Doctor and convinces him to take her along, saving him from himself.

Parting of the ways was his revelation. He's confronted by the total redundancy of his whole regeneration. He sacraficed his own people to fix the universe, only to have his worse fears confirmed. That it didn't do the slightest bit of difference. The cancer broke out all over again.

When he sends Rose home he doesn't really do it to keep her safe. She's not. He's still doomed her really, because her entire race is going to die. But he can't watch her suffer in front of him too. He sends her away I think more for himself than anything else.

He finally submits to the Daleks because he's not going to damn himself again just so the process can repeat itself once more. He really can't make a difference after all. He's lost. Everything dies.

But.....

It's the grassroots stuff that saves the day. It's not the building of Delta Wave guns that does it, it's having Rose as a companion. It's his ideas, his mindset. Standing up and saying no because somebody has to. Against all the odds, Rose comes back and saves the day, proving to him that's he's not alone, and that hopeless actions, done just for the sake of being the right thing to do, can make all the difference. She proves his worst fears wrong and he can finally breathe out that big knot he's been holding in his chest the whole time he's been Eccleston.


So Eccleston becomes Tennant. Same man but different. Expressing the same thoughts and feelings in an almost polar opposite way.

Where Nine was more likely to focus on the darkness and angst, Ten delights in novelty and the simple, fun things. Like Ghostbusters, 3-D specs and Werewolves. He has no illusions about the dark, nasty bastards in the world, he's seen far too much for that, but he refuses to let that get in the way of all the stuff that's good and fun in the world. He knows that the monsters will always keep coming and that people all around him will continue to die, and he really is sorry for that (So, so sorry), but to let that drag him down again is to lose sight of precisely why it is he does what he does. He wades through it all so he can build a world where these people don't have to die.

I think if you really want to boil it down you can see season one as focusing on the problems with his own sense of mortality, versus season two focusing on the problems with his own sense of immortality.

Lonely God, and all that.

I think the gurning and the schoolboyishness of Ten is a very delibirate engagement with the energy and physicality of life, though it's true they may be over-egging the pudding a bit. Then again, that might be the whole point. There's been a whiff of overcompensation in Ten's feelings of invulnerability, that only really becomes apparent when he realises he might have fucked up. He got a fair head of self-righteous fire and brimstone worked up when Rose got caught by The Wire in Idiot's Lantern.

I really reckon he might catch it something nasty next Saturday. Rose saved him last finale and I get the feeling he might not be able to do the same for her this time. At any rate, we know she's on the way out and that Season 3 Tennant's probably going to reflect this.

I wanna see what happens.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
17:40 / 03.07.06
iamus, that was the best bloody post I've read in a long time.

And I think you may be onto something about the Doctor and Rose and who cannot save who.

Oh god, I want to watch this sooooo bad.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:45 / 03.07.06
Just watched it. That was totally WHOAH.

WHOAH.

I can't really be more coherent than that. Just... just WHOAH.

The Ghostbusters joke I rationalised by thinking... well, given what we know about this Doctor's personality... he'd fucking love that film, really. I bet he'd piss himself at the marshmallow man. Seemed reasonable to me. What's slightly less plausible is that it would be quite the same cultural touchstone to someone of Rose's age, or that she'd get the reference... ah well, must have seen it on telly, I guess.

Or that Torchwood grew out of what was left of UK-UNIT after the Slitheen's attack last year. Nah, they had the money to build Canary Wharf WAY before that. But there are all manner of ways you can justify that- I was guessing a secret Queen V trust fund, myself.

BUT I DON'T CARE ABOUT ANY OF THIS!!!

Because that was ace. Like the Impossible Planet/Satan Pit, that was (at least the first half of) the glorious mess that Who is best at. I'm simultaneously wishing the days away until Saturday, and holping Saturday doesn't come for ages, because then the series will have finished, and that will make me sad.

And I STILL think Jackie would make the best Who companion ever. This episode only goes to add weight to my theory.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:54 / 03.07.06
I'll show you where my ankle's going.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:40 / 04.07.06
Spoiler-phobes should avoid next weeks Radio Times, especially the cover which looks like it may be letting a big feline out of the bag about what'll be happening next Saturday.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:16 / 04.07.06
And indeed, as usual, avoid all newspapers. Don't get me wrong- I think it's wonderful that so many people are watching, and that it's become "event TV". It really SHOULD be. The downside of that, unfortunately, is the near-impossibility of spoiler avoidance. (They do the same shit with soap operas... WHAT IS THE POINT??? Who are these people who actually LIKE having stuff ruined for them?)
 
  

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