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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Doctor Who: Season 2 UK

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21:23 / 25.06.06

Gave me wood.

21:24 / 25.06.06

Oh, and no Torchwood reference! Yay!

Small one, in the background when the announcer is still reacting to the stadium full of people vanishing. I didn't pick up what he was saying precisely but the word leapt out at me.

The teaser for next week has me all of a flutter. I love the new Cybermen turning and marching in unison, there's a real sense of implacable power when they come stomping across the screen.

21:47 / 25.06.06

I wonder what is to become of these cybermen. They have been very deliberately reimagined as alternative cybermen to the ones we know from the series of old (and who are still part of the new series continuity, as evidenced by the appearence of the cyberman head in Dalek).

So, are we to expect the anihilation of these usurper cybermen by the daleks, if daleks they be? A loud civil war between the cybermen new and old, or a quiet shift behind the scenes that eloquently has the new variant put paid to the old versions?

What do people think?

What will happen and what would they prefer to see happen?

22:00 / 25.06.06

Having rewatched the trailer about ten times since my last post, I'd like to ask people to watch a particular part again. Maybe people with that Sky Plus thingy can confirm. When the laser beams are being shot from a height, it looks like Cybermen are being the recipients of the blasts. Daleks attacking Cybermen?

I have a ten euro bet with somebody that the Daleks aren't going to be in the episode, and that it will simply be Cybermen/Humans grafted with Dalek weaponry. I sort of want to lose the bet, just to see how Tennant's Doctor reacts to Daleks, an element from a past that he believes he has left behind with his last incarnation.

07:33 / 26.06.06

Well, I'm pretty sure I saw humans getting zapped with Dalek-style blast effects (as well as several shots of, what is most likely, Cyberman blasts).

I'm wondering if the speculation a few pages above is correct and the alternate Earth (CyberEarth? Earth C?)is a reality where the Daleks are still dominant. Perhaps it's not so much an invasion as it is a retreat?

The Age of Steel tardisode had Lumic activating CyberFactories across the globe but everyone seemed to think they were still dormant at the end of AoS. So either there were hidden countermeasures to prevent permanent shutdown of the logic-chip, or the world was over-run before Micky and his phone could do any good.

Once the chip got turned back on and suppressed the Cybermen's emotions they'd be back on top pretty quickly (those who hadn't suicided or gone catatonic through shock that is).

Regarding Fear Her. Was anyone else waiting for an obscure reference to Survival when Rose asked the Doctor why he doesn't like cats?

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:36 / 26.06.06

I thought this episode had its ups and downs, as ever. On the plus side, it had one of the strongest Tennant performances to date, particular in terms of making the Doctor eccentric without being irritating to the viewer (the highlight being the scene in the kitchen: sticking his fingers into the food and then making himself shiver by saying something ominous). On the downside: as has been said, two instances of love saving the day is mor than pushing it, and when one of them includes a newsreader telling us that the Olympic torch is a symbol of love, that's just bollocks. Also bollocks: the guy running with the torch collapses and falls over, and the Doctor picks up the torch and runs on... Jeez, I know he's not that kind of Doctor, but I kinda think that a better symbol of love would have been checking to see if the guy was okay? (You could fanwank and say it was originally in the history books that the guy collapsed and was fine but that the lamp-lighting was postponed, and that the Doctor remembered this, but it's a big stretch.)

Next week looks good though: please Barbelith people, do me a favour and stop simultaneously complaining that too much has been given away whilst coming up with a dozen different theories as to what's going to happen. Obviously it hasn't all been spoilt. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Rose won't die, but that something will happen that will make her want to give up being a companion: either the Doctor will do something that makes her unable to trust him, or something will happen close to home that makes her decide to stay. That would suit the Doctor telling her "Never say never" after she says they'll never be separated...

09:09 / 26.06.06

I'm really hoping that you are right Flyboy - it would be far more interesting for Rose to leave than for her to be killed...

Whisky Priestess

09:17 / 26.06.06

I think what will happen is they have a terrible drunken one-night stand and neither of them can face the other in the morning. Ever again.

uncle retrospective

10:47 / 26.06.06

Better the Doctor than Chris Evans....
Oh..

10:57 / 26.06.06

This is speculation... I'm almost certain that the "Death of Rose in Battle" will be a symbolic death, probably a memory wipe that can leave her to enjoy a life without the Doctor. If the storyline is about colliding universes that allow the alternate Cybermen to enter the main continuity then you can pretty much reintroduce her Dad and get him together with Jackie and leave Rose with her nicely restored family. I'm not a betting man, but...

Mister Six, whom all the girls

11:51 / 26.06.06

Flyboy, that is hilariously true.

Any other Doctor would have checked to see if the guy was okay. Even Colin Baker would have knelt to his side, 'Alright chappy?' but Ten? No way! It's HIS SHOW!

The whole torch business felt forced and made David look like a right idiot after a very decent performance.

And at the risk of raising the trouble flag, I second the motion for the dropping of spoilers and such. There are only a few days left to the episode after all.

If you're not spoiling or do not have information on the finale, never mind my words but if you do, please just keep it to yer chest... or PM me as I love spoilers.

11:55 / 26.06.06

I liked the use of archetypal brand new houses in 'Fear Her'. I reckon it'll have great architectural history/nostalgia value in 20 or 30 years time.

Thought it was a bit ho-hum overall, though. Not creepy enough, and we didn't see any interesting character/relationship developments.

Ooh, but what about that "I was a dad once..." line? Should that be shrugged off as a throwaway thing?

The good bits:

- the living squiggle (the radio-static sound that accompanied it was a nice touch). I'd have liked to have seen them do more with that, or gone the other way and given us a glimpse into the world that the abductees were thrown into.

- Rose doing the raised eyebrows, sarcastic under-her-breath comment thing in the kitchen (cf the first Cyber episode where she disses the other waitress)

- "That's a council pickaxe!" etc

Annoyance:

- Rose going on and on: "Where's the doctor? Boo hoo!" She could see that everyone was being returned to the same place they disappeared from, so why didn't she go back to where the Tardis was?

- The old woman wasn't very convincing was she? Difficult lines to deliver well, perhaps.

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:02 / 26.06.06

She could see that everyone was being returned to the same place they disappeared from, so why didn't she go back to where the Tardis was?

In Rose's defence, she didn't see the kids squiggle back in, and she also didn't see where they were when they squiggled out. On the other hand, she should really have checked...

12:15 / 26.06.06

Ah, fair point. But she did see the Olympic spectators squiggle back in, on the telly. Minor niggle, though.

Regrettable Juvenilia

12:18 / 26.06.06

Unless she did check and the Tardis wasn't there because the Doctor used it to go intercept the torch. Would he really be so thoughtless? I dunno.

Ooh, but what about that "I was a dad once..." line? Should that be shrugged off as a throwaway thing?

Gah, I meant to say "I'm surprised that 'dad' line isn't causing a lot of discussion", and then I completely forgot to mention it myself! It can't possibly be throwaway, although if it's not, that's as worrying as it is exciting, potentially. Something for season 3, I assume? I understand that the Eighth Doctor had a daughter during the interim books - can anyone confirm? I assume it's nothing to do with his "granddaughter" from his first incarnation...

Mister Six, whom all the girls

12:36 / 26.06.06

"I assume it's nothing to do with his "granddaughter" from his first incarnation..."

Why not? You have to have a daughter to have a granddaughter, after all.

There used to be a notion that Susan isn't the Doctor's granddaughter but it's been established by the classic series production team a few times that Susan is his granddaughter. There's nothing in the program to suggest she never was, after all. They were even going to do an episode called 'The Doctor's Wife.'

And the 8th Doctor's daughter, Miranda, is from the books as well as the short-lived comic series.

12:45 / 26.06.06

Why not? You have to have a daughter to have a granddaughter, after all.

Or a son, surely? Might be time for Parenthogenesis 101. Minor squiggle.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

13:13 / 26.06.06

Ha.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:51 / 26.06.06

I'm rather hoping that "I was a dad once" is a throwaway rather than a foreshadowing - the Doctor had a child, the child died in the Time War, the end. The Doctor mentions it unguardedly, and then catches himself and changes the subject, because it is too big and too sad a subject, and because it would only highlight the gulf in experience and emotion between himself and Rose.

Whisky Priestess

15:15 / 26.06.06

You are not thinking like time-travellers, guys ... he's obviously his own dad.

16:33 / 26.06.06

Rose won't die, because she's a role model to a lot of young children and it would be an act of pure sadistic meanness to kill her off. It'll be interesting to see if they can write her out without making a victim out of her: Doctor dumps Rose? No thanks. Rose dumps Doctor, now she's got a chance to live again with both her parents? Nnnnno fucking way. Like in "The Last Temptation of Christ" she should get the choice, but it's too much of a retreat. I reckon the two of them will end up trapped in the separate universes with no chance of ever seeing each other again, boo hoo, but but but... Rose gets the Tardis. Or the soul of the Tardis or whatever it was she accessed in "The Parting of the Ways" - tempered now so she's neither made omnipotent nor killed by it. But she gets to shoot off to be the Time Lord of Universe B, and the Doctor gets grounded for a while, like Pertwee was.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

16:40 / 26.06.06

I think that'sthe first time I've seen Rose compared to Christ... even in relation to making a choice as Christ had (in film)... not sure what to make of that.

I kind of like the idea of a grounded Doctor... but in the hands of RTD... I shudder.

I also can't see them getting rid of the TARDIS (it's too much of an icon of the program) and having Rose as a Timelord or champion of Universe B seems a bit far fetched to me.

Then again, if she doesn't die I can't figure out what the show will do with her.

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

19:50 / 26.06.06

The dad thing certainly caught me off guard, but I certainly thought it was a reference to the child the Doctor must once long ago have had in order to have grandaughter. I've always sort of assumed that that child died before the series began, and probably before the Doctor started his travels - since it would make sense as to why the Doctor was Susan's guardian and and death of a child would likely be a fairly big contributory factor as to why the Doctor choose to go off adventuring. Still i tend to think it's one of those things best not explored too deeply in the show and instead left for the viewers to make their own minds up about. Still with all the other Timelords being dead, I wouldn't mind seeing the Doctor make specific mention of the death of his grandaughter who was after all an original companion at some point.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

19:55 / 26.06.06

It might have been covered in the very rare book 'Lungbarrow' which is all about the Doctor's family.

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

20:04 / 26.06.06

I haven't read it, but I hear it gave one possible version. Probably a version I would enjoy, since it was supposed to be the culmination of my beloved McCoy run. However the thing with the books is that they aren't really continuity, and as such they are really only slightly more valid if at all than things the fans come up with for themselves, which isn't actually a bad place for them to be in creatively as it opens up possibilities to tell stories that it wouldn't be possible or indeed even advisable to tell if one was actually writing in orthodox Who continuity.

20:05 / 26.06.06

I very much like Seth's notion that Rose ends up going back and sacrificing her life with the doctor for an ordinary existence with mum and dad...

20:27 / 26.06.06

If anyone can face it, Lungbarrow is available in full on the BBC site.

the thing with the books is that they aren't really continuity

That's true, but this is kind of a special case as there have been indications that it was what the final season was building to. Ghost Light was, I think, inspired by the same treatment that led to Lungbarrow. So, even though the canonicity is questionable, I'd think most people would accept (especially given the iffiness of the lead-in to the McGann film) it was the closest thing you could get to canon given the fact we all thought it was all over.

20:30 / 26.06.06

I very much like Seth's notion that Rose ends up going back and sacrificing her life with the doctor for an ordinary existence with mum and dad...

...and eats chips.

21:51 / 26.06.06

What I'm going to postulate, is that Torchwood, who we know enjoy harvesting bits and pieces of alien technology have somehow harvested Dalek technology and given it to their own personnel to combat the cybermen.

What I'm going to postulate is that it's Captain Jack swooping in with a crotch-mounted dalek cannon, saving the day with sexy hands-behind-the-head pelvic thrusts.

Fly's suggestion that the dad stuff might be for season three was my immediate thought too. I'd very much like to see a little Doctor family stuff, provided it was handled right. Maybe tied thematically to the new companion.

Bring back Susan, regenerated into a Tennant-alike boy (still called Susan) and have her constantly picking him up on his gurning and beating him to the punch on the big revelations. It'd be fucking great.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:20 / 26.06.06

Bring back Susan, regenerated into a Tennant-alike boy (still called Susan) and have her constantly picking him up on his gurning and beating him to the punch on the big revelations. It'd be fucking great.

Scrappy-Who?

22:22 / 26.06.06

What I'm going to postulate is that it's Captain Jack swooping in with a crotch-mounted dalek cannon, saving the day with sexy hands-behind-the-head pelvic thrusts.

Exsperminate!

Our Lady Has Left the Building

06:34 / 27.06.06

Although I doubt it means anything, the Doctor's last words in last Saturday's episode were "there's a storm coming"...

& then there's:
"In the legends of the Dalek homeworld I am called 'The Oncoming Storm'"

Hmmm?

07:25 / 27.06.06

Who's called The Oncoming Storm?

08:19 / 27.06.06

Yes, he is.

Whisky Priestess

09:30 / 27.06.06

So he says. Imagine revealing that little nugget to your mates down the pub:

"Oncoming Storm!? Yeah, right mate, whatever. Isn't it your round?"

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