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Grant Morrison's Batman

 
  

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Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
20:41 / 09.08.08
"A machine designed to make Batman!"

I'm almost inclined to pick this up, even though I know I should save and wait and bide my time until the trades come out. One day. One day, when I've won my war on crime and I can put away these fancy, shiny clothes and 5th Dimensional Sparkle and buy the trades. Which don't exist yet. NOTHING EXISTS YET.

Which is to say: good preview, looks exciting, want-want-want. Stupid DC, tweaking my consumerist-encoding.
 
 
Spaniel
20:52 / 09.08.08
BE STRONG!

This looks even more fucking bonkers than Batsmack.

Agreement lulz
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
23:25 / 09.08.08
Between Ambush Bug and this, I'm wondering if the REAL SECRET OF FINAL CRISIS is the return of the go-go checks.
 
 
Bastard Tweed
17:29 / 10.08.08
1) Isn't it wonderful that the Batman of Zurr-Enn-Arr defeats criminals with his hi-tech gizmo, The Bat-Stick.

2) Was I the only one whose inside-voice was reading the gargoyle's dialogue with extremely thick Brooklyn accents?
 
 
Neon Snake
21:27 / 10.08.08
Yep. As far as I'm concerned, anyone on the printed page speaks in an East London/Essex accent, unless written phonetically.

Darkseid IS, innit.
 
 
slagar
18:50 / 13.08.08
The thing on Batmite's back, assuming he is a figment of Bruce Wayne's imagination, as is the talking gargoyles and the grid lined city, could it signify that Bruce Wayne recognizes his dillusions and in placing it there it is a signal to himself that Batmite, and the world he's seeing, is something that is not supposed to be there. Is it Bruce's key back to his sanity?
 
 
huckleberry glove soup
01:48 / 14.08.08
Absolutely fantastic issue. Tha back-up Batman ID is brilliant beyond belief. Urban LSDeity Supreme! Did Alfred really con the Commisioner into Wayne manor or is he just having a Tyler Durden moment and imagining his primary persona being beaten and bound? The hoarse voice line can play two ways: One, it's his Dr. Hurt/Batman voice or Two, he's just kinda raspy from screaming in pain?

Real page turner. Another of those: I hate getting closer to the end Want more now issues.
 
 
SiliconDream
05:37 / 14.08.08
The thing on Batmite's back, assuming he is a figment of Bruce Wayne's imagination, as is the talking gargoyles and the grid lined city, could it signify that Bruce Wayne recognizes his dillusions and in placing it there it is a signal to himself that Batmite, and the world he's seeing, is something that is not supposed to be there.

If you look upthread to the discussion of #673, a good case (I thought) was made that the little ghoul-thing is the real Bat-mite, the personification of all the loss and terror that young Bruce felt. Bat-mite is just the friendly mask Bruce stuck on it, so's he could befriend it and turn all that trauma into something productive.
 
 
SiliconDream
06:05 / 14.08.08
Tha back-up Batman ID is brilliant beyond belief.

Especially considering how its particular insanities counter Hurt's attacks.

In both the (retconned) past and present, Hurt neutralizes Batman through doubt; he attacks the guy's trust in his abilities, his friends, and his mission. But ZEABats is immune to doubt. All his thoughts are fast and simple and straightforward, and the complicated analyses and tough decisions are handed off to his externalized familiars. The gargoyles and their grids interpret the city for him; the Bat-Radia psychoanalyzes his foes; and "Might" keeps him on-mission. All he has to do is hit whoever needs hitting--no responsibility, no second-guessing.

The hoarse voice line can play two ways: One, it's his Dr. Hurt/Batman voice or Two, he's just kinda raspy from screaming in pain?

Or Hurt is actually Mangrove Pierce or some other actor type who can (roughly) fake Alfred's voice. Or El Sombrero, as an expert in death-traps, knows how to lure people using the voices of their acquaintances.
 
 
huckleberry glove soup
08:22 / 14.08.08
That is some mighty keen recognition regarding "ZEABats'" instinctual behavior. When I read it, I instantly thought "it's Batman on some very clean acid..."
 
 
Mario
09:55 / 14.08.08
Thought:

Bat-"Might" = Mental Twin = Mummudrai?
 
 
The Natural Way
12:33 / 14.08.08
If you look upthread to the discussion of #673, a good case (I thought) was made that the little ghoul-thing is the real Bat-mite, the personification of all the loss and terror that young Bruce felt. Bat-mite is just the friendly mask Bruce stuck on it, so's he could befriend it and turn all that trauma into something productive.

As well as actually being a fifthy dimensional imp.
 
 
The Natural Way
12:55 / 14.08.08
This is still the best comic2311!
 
 
Mark Parsons
16:17 / 14.08.08
I took the "hssss" to be a nod to Dave Sim's Cockroach/Moonroach/Wolveroach, who often hissed to indicate displeasure and general scariness.
 
 
the Doctor
20:51 / 14.08.08
Who is this Black Glove, then?
G.M. has often said it's obvious, but still I can't figure it oit.
Is he Joe Chill's own son? a jelous Thomas Wayne (and if so: is Bruce REALLY Alfred's son?)? Hugo Strange? the Joker's mummudrai? Clayface?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:39 / 14.08.08
Bat-Mite is the Black Glove. Or Barbara Gordon.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
23:28 / 14.08.08
Robin. And Jezebel Jet. And the Joker.

Obviously
 
 
vajramukti
00:51 / 15.08.08
so...
either hurt is thomas wayne, or he thinks he is. probably the latter. bruce is now one of the invisibles, with the back up personalites and all. The batman of zurr enhh arhh is even more grim and gritty than the goddamn batman, but prances around in purple and red. bruce digs out his own teeth like bruce willis in tweleve monkeys. check.

you have to wonder if this is how grant thinks batman should have been all along, with all the hightened psychedelic perceptions, remorseless brutality, compartmentalised personalites, and withering psychological insights. that as scary as batman appears to be most of the time, he's really riding over top of something even scarier than he lets himself be, that kind of totally uninhibited mad psycho genius thing that makes him batman, and this is it, totally off the chain. the daft outfit is just symbolic of how he's shed the anal retentiveness that puts blockers on his crazy.
 
 
--
02:32 / 15.08.08
Nice to see the other members of the Club of Villains actually talking. I loved KIng Kraken's line "Henchmen are for wussies!" Charlie Caligula is pretty entertaining also. Not to mention the dejected look of Pierrot and that buckethead guy at the bottom of page 17. Interesting that Arkham Asylum once again seems that it will play a large part in one of GM's "Batman" stories.

Though it seems as it the preview was wrong about Robin teaming up with Damien... to say nothing of the "surprising return" of a character. So much for that...
 
 
SiliconDream
06:10 / 15.08.08
As well as actually being a fifthy dimensional imp.

That too--Charlie C seems able to dimly perceive Might, so he's not entirely in Bruce's head. Either Bruce can angst so hard he actually summons cosmic entities out of the ether or...I dunno what.


It's reminiscent of Wally West and Jack Frost. Apparently every good superhero had a godlike alien for an imaginary friend.
 
 
SiliconDream
06:30 / 15.08.08
1) Isn't it wonderful that the Batman of Zurr-Enn-Arr defeats criminals with his hi-tech gizmo, The Bat-Stick.

Even better...it's a Bat-Bat.


Though it seems as it the preview was wrong about Robin teaming up with Damien... to say nothing of the "surprising return" of a character. So much for that...

"Surprising return" could cover the Knight and Squire, I suppose. Alternately, maybe it's the cop riding with Gordon, who's instantly marked for death via multiple tropes. I didn't really expect him.
 
 
Spaniel
07:42 / 15.08.08
Either Hurt is Thomas Wayne or he thinks he is, or he's just fucking with Alfred, and us.

In fact, whatever's going on there's no doubt that we're being fucked with. Morrison's shown a willingness to throw fanboy speculation back in our faces, Alfred and Hurt's exchange is just another example of him doing that.
 
 
Spaniel
07:54 / 15.08.08
This is still the best comic

I was literally giggling with glee. The way Morrison is meshing psychedelia with grim n gritty lunacy. ! . The balance of horror and hilarity is something I'm not used to seeing outside Coen brothers or David Lynch films.

Have lots to say about this, particularly in the light of having just read Derrida for Beginners (yeah, what of it!). Kind of want to write a review for Mindless Ones, but will probably save up my thoughts for the podcast recording tomorrow night.


Did a little clap of joyjoy while reading the Knight and the Squire's exchange.

"We can't have that, Beryl!"

No we can't. Yay.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
08:02 / 15.08.08
Yeah. Dinner. Absolute fucking dinner. I read this on the bus home, so totally engrossed that i missed my stop.

That last image of a psychedelic Batman charging his way towards us through a neon soaked Gothamscape was epic and brilliant in a way that only comics can achieve.
 
 
The Natural Way
09:55 / 15.08.08
Yeah, the 'surprising return' was totally the Knight and the Squire. We were set up to think it would be Damien, so it really worked. Obviously his crew'll show soon, though.
 
 
Spaniel
10:05 / 15.08.08
I'm keen to see the Joker's "weapons". I'm assuming one of them will be captive Robin
 
 
Haus of Mystery
10:25 / 15.08.08
God it's going to be fucking epic isn't it? I kind of wish it was going on longer.

Batskill!
 
 
Colonel Kadmon
16:25 / 15.08.08
I guessed the surprising return was Thomas Wayne. I realise it's probably not actually him, but it wouldn't stop DC from selling it that way. Knight and Squire are characters, plural, so it cannae be them.
 
 
--
17:41 / 15.08.08
I assume that the Joker's weapons are the red and black flowers.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
18:38 / 15.08.08
Perhaps he'll try to copyright them like the Laughing Fish?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
08:29 / 16.08.08
Comic Book Queers are positing that it's Satan, (possibly as that lame knock-off from Underworld Unleashed that no-one cares about)

So, because I'm Slow McSlow From Saint Agatha's School for Sl... (so slow that they haven't got to the end of it's name yet), I just want to check my understanding is correct.

In his early years Batman conducted lots of thought experiments and underwent exercises to put himself in altered states of consciousness to try and prepare for fighting against any possible kind of crazy shit that could happen to him in his war on crime. This is basically all his Silver Age adventures. At one point, in order to deal with "What happens if someone were to destroy the Bruce Wayne part of myself?" he 'created' a 'back-up personality' which was just Batman, with nothing of Bruce Wayne in it, but crossed it with what he knew of his friend Superman, in order that it have a moral code. Which is where we are at now, Hurt believes Bruce Wayne to be the true being and has for the moment, destroyed that, which is why Bruce Wayne shuffles round like an amnesiac zombie but Zur-en-Ah Batman is putting HIM on like an identity.

Some time before or after (but I think after), during mind-control experiments he undertakes to help the US Government (but for his own ends) he comes across Dr. Hurt, who either with his permission or perhaps when he's too brainfucked to really know, does some more experiments on him. Now, if any of what I've said so far has any relationship to what happened in the story this is what I'm doubly unsure about here. What does Hurt know about Zur-En-Ah Batman? Does Hurt know it's Batman's back-up personality? Does everything he's done to Batman so far just to keep him busy while the Black Glove prepares it's final 'crushing' move? Or did he just think that was a cool and not-commonly used phrase he'd use to program Batman's off-switch? Because what we might have here is a battle between Zur-En-Ar as Bruce's switch-off program AND as his 'what do I do if someone takes out the Bruce Wayne part of me'.

Some people have thought that the Joker wouldn't go along with the Black Glove's plot. Rereading the text issue as I was, I think the Glove has actually managed to use the Joker in the best way that is unlikely to backfire, they don't want the Joker to kill Batman and the Joker doesn't want to kill Batman, just make him like the Joker. Of course, if Batman doesn't incapacitate the Joker before moving on to the final challenge the Black Glove might have a problem with the Joker running loose afterwards, as they will presumably be trying to kill Batman after their final games.

But while Alfred may have made it easier for Hurt's games to work by making Bruce be more himself than the Batman I'm thinking it's less likely that Alfred is the Black Glove. Why stage that scene for the benefit of the few of the League of Villains that happen to be standing around at that moment. Especially as none of them seem to be that good.

Is there any significance that the Black Glove and the League are only going for Robin and Nightwing and not the wider Bat-family of Oracle, Huntress and Batgirl?

So explain to me all the ways in which I'm missing the point.
 
 
The Natural Way
11:05 / 16.08.08
Well, we do know that the isolation experiment brought up all the Zur-en-arrh stuff, so who knows what crazy shit Batman was mumbling at th e time. Perhaps hurt just heard the word and mutterings about other worlds and super-batmen, concluded that Bats was in a disassociated state, and so decided to employ it as the post-hypnotic trigger phrase to turn him 'off'. Hmmmph. It's as good a guess as any. I don't really care to be honest.

It's possible Bruce didn't consciously create his back up personality, but, instead, when he was in a gas-gun induced altered state, his ferociously powerful mind just reacted, and did what was necessary to protect him. 'Batman always thinks of everything', indeed.

I love the idea that, as you say, they're planning to make him like the Joker. That's about the most awful thing anyone could do to Batman, isn't it? And that Robin's 'promised to the Joker.' Absolutely vile, given the leering one's history with Batman's sidekicks. Perhaps part of the mind-melting process depends on Bats reliving another robinicide, but this time right in front of him.

Oh, and I just love the idea of 'Slow Vision', it's the total inverse of traditional super-powers, and that the city speaks to Batman. Morrison's the first writer to really run with this idea, first in the prose piece and now, again, more literally, in the last ish.
 
 
vajramukti
15:12 / 16.08.08
my impression was that first batman had the proffesor milo gas-induced hallucination of zur en arhh, and then got the idea to use that as the basis of his backup personality. I'm not clear on whether the backup came before or after the isolation tank, though. probably before. the shut off command was layered on top of the backup personality.

I think the joker is gonna throw a curve though. the club of villians is probably reckoning on the 'old' joker that will conspire and plays well with others. but this is the clown at midnight, the thin white duke of death, and he does things different. they just don't comprehend his capacity for violent self-reinvention. there's an awful lot of disposable villains running around with knowledge of bruce's ID. that just won't do...
 
 
The Natural Way
15:16 / 16.08.08
Yeah, it's patently obvious the Joker's gonna try to kill everyone.

I love the Joker. He is TE2H3EVIL.
 
 
MFreitas
16:12 / 19.08.08
Regarding Bat-Mite: I just came up with the possibility of the irritating impish creature being the part of Bruce's psyche that just thinks like the Joker. Remember Bruce did the isolation chamber thing to experience hallucinations and psychotic states and getting a glimpse of how the Joker's mind worked. What if "Bat-Mite" is just that glimpse? The glimpse Bruce caught and kept, unwillingly or not, to use as a contingence plan together with the Zur-En-Arrh persona, a persona capable of acting even when Bruce is unconscious or out of his mind. The true "Bat-Mite" is the ugly back-hugger, the darkest side of Bruce's psyche; the impish bat-looking creature is just the way Bruce wishes to see or perceives him, his imaginary childhood's friend.

When did that persona resurfaced?
First when Bruce had the heart-attack while confronting Lane and when he first summoned the "Zur-En-Arrh" word (represented within the life-suport system, of all things); later, when he embraced the Batman of Zur-en-Arrh persona. Back to Lane's episode, Mite's apparition goes away exactly after Bruce thinks to himself "Concentrate". By concentrating, he enters full rational state, not resorting any longer on his subconscious "friend".

Also: is that only a coincidence Mite's and Joker's speeches are lettered exactly the same way (with small caps)? Or does it imply Mite "thinks" like the Joker? Only Mite could reassure Bruce telling him he's sane when he's dressed with garrish colors, seeing color grids in the city and beating everybody to a pulp with a Bat-Bat.

Bruce is now basically insane. And violent. And unpredictable. And seemingly color-blind. Just like the Joker. Batman's become like the Joker. Black and Red. The 2 Jokers in a deck.

Batman could never change the Joker. Instead he came close to be like him. The Joker won.
 
  

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