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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Lost (US thread)

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16:26 / 19.04.07

Meant to add, Y&B, I guess we just see things differently as far as Lost is concerned. However I can't hold a grudge against you, I know you loved AD as much as I did, so you'll always be okay in my book.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

16:40 / 19.04.07

Ditto.

I still think S2 is the best season of Lost yet, and not just because it has the best yelling ("A FATHER'S RIGHT!"). I quite loved the idea of the hatch the second it was introduced (an apartment? here? j'taime!!), and I loved all the Dharma back and forth cluesion and man, Henry fucking Gale. What a fantastic development.

As far as any impact the season had on the whole, I'd say: tons.

Let's look at Desmond, for example. Not even considering the fact that he wouldn't even be with us if it weren't for the hatch, et al, but look at his growth from scared flip-out king in all flashbacks and the whole of Season Two to now. He clearly has FOUND his purpose, and fulfilled it. He saved the world and he knows it. Now he's King Dick of Throb Island. And, personally, that was a really nicely crafted arc to follow.

I'll admit Charlie is just a hair above Claire in terms of uselessness, only because he drops a hilarious line delivery every now and again ("The four trillion which I myself am worth.") so I just kind of expect anything involving him to be arbitrary, but even his back stories hold a bit of interest to me.

But I grew up inhaling this sort of stuff in The Stand and It and The Dark Tower. Uncomplicated, character driven, moody, riveting shit.

Oh, and I neglected to mention the Elephant In The Room: It is the best directed, best shot, best located, and by far the best scored show on network television.

18:03 / 19.04.07

Best Score?
Scottish wine???

It was ok I thought I've enjoyed the previous episodes more but introducing someone new to the island should be interesting (if she's still alive) plus due to my childhood obsessions with living on an island I was happy the got the parachute, would make a great tent that.

With Catch-22 being in Portuguese we can assume that the treegirl has something to do with the people we saw in the bunker/snow at the end of season 2 right?

18:14 / 19.04.07

Oh and there most be more folk on the way right? I mean I'm no aviation expert but if it was a helicopter it must have had one hell of a fuel tank?

Lots to think about in that episode actually.

Poor Sawyer.

18:56 / 19.04.07

I have mixed feelings about this episode. As I've already made clear, Desmond's ability drags me out of the show a bit, and in this case, to make matters worse, his visions mapped out the bulk of the plot detail in advance - even down to Desmond's inevitable conflict over whether he should or shouldn't save Charlie.

Oh yeah, to continue with the moan, I'm also not terribly thrilled to have another new face on the Island. Haven't we had enough new faces recently? I really hope she's gonna die, frankly, but with those cheek bones I think she might well hang around for a bit. I suppose having someone from off-Island arrive - someone who was part of an organised search for its location - could stir things up in all sorts of interesting ways. Again, we'll see.

There were some nice character moments, and some well judged snippets of dialogue, so with that in mind I'm keen to see what else Brian K Vaughan has up his sleeve. My problems with this episode are more editorial than writer specific methinks.

Also, I had the same thought about the helicopter, Bear.

18:58 / 19.04.07

I mean I'm no aviation expert but if it was a helicopter it must have had one hell of a fuel tank?

It depends where they are, but yes you would assume so. Did anyone have any ideas on why there Brazilians listening for odd radio signals in the Antarctic (or was it the Arctic)?

19:04 / 19.04.07

Oh and while I'm not going to get into the bloody interminable debate about whether Lost is or isn't complete bollocks written by pricktease writers with no idea about what they're doing, I am going to take Nico's point up.

Why didn't Charlie move? Because he was fucking terrified shit scared and confused and all the bloody other things you would be if you'd just found yourself standing on a potential deathtrap. Jesus, I wouldn't expect everyone to behave like that, sure, but to suggest that Charlie's inaction wasn't realistic is pretty ridiculous, imvh.

19:23 / 19.04.07

Did anyone have any ideas on why there Brazilians listening for odd radio signals in the Antarctic

That's what I was saying above they must be connected to the new arrival, I'm sure this will be explained more soon. I think I need to go back and see that episode again but my memory is telling me that they picked up a trace of the island when the sky went purple.

4 more episodes to go, I think there's going to be a lot of stuff going down in the next few, hopefully we'll find out where Locke and the Others have gone soon.

I'm curious about the 4th season and what the focus might be.

19:37 / 19.04.07

Innit 5 more?

They definitely picked up a signal at the end of Season 2. That was the big thrilling closing moment.

20:12 / 19.04.07

Yeah 5 episodes or 6 I guess if you want to class the 2 hour finale as 2 episodes.

Sorry I remember now that you said how many episodes there were not too long ago. I get excited on this thread and can never get my thoughts clear....

02:07 / 20.04.07

Also, re Charlie's supposedly "slow" reaction. Yes, in Real-Time, from the wire being tripped to the arrow flying, would be just an instant -- but it's edited, "deconstructed", slower, to show reactions, etc. -- so it's also Subjective-Time; letting us see Desmond and Charlie react.

That's always tricky in films. Like when the bomb is going to go off in 5 seconds, and it takes like half a minute with all the suspensful reaction shots.

miss wonderstarr

07:49 / 20.04.07

What the Sam Hill was up with Ruth's accent (and acting?) Nobody else has mentioned it yet, but I found both horrifically bad.

12:35 / 20.04.07

One thing I was curious about...doesn't Desmond have the only photo of Penelope and him? Recall his previous flashback episode, after that shot was taken, Desmond took the photo, and then broke up with her, right? So how was there a copy of the photo inside Catch-22? And another thing...wasn't the fact that "Catch-22" was written in a foreign language enough to tip Desmond off that it might not've been Penelope who parachuted onto the island?

No one's yet to mention the ultra-gratuitous shot of Kate in her underwear (is it just me, or has she gotten more attractive over the past few years?), or the Superman/Flash argument, which every comic book fan has had at one point or another in his or her life.

miss wonderstarr

12:59 / 20.04.07

One thing I was curious about...doesn't Desmond have the only photo of Penelope and him? Recall his previous flashback episode, after that shot was taken, Desmond took the photo, and then broke up with her, right? So how was there a copy of the photo inside Catch-22?

You can get copies of prints from prints, or of course just scan and reprint them.

13:07 / 20.04.07

I know that! But HOW did Penelope get them? As it's been shown to us, that photo was taken the last day Desmond and her were together. And Desmond kept the photo. So it's not like Penelope had it on hand to make copies from. I'm assuming she must've tracked down the photographer and gotten the negative, or maybe this is some bizarre offshoot of Desmond screwing up the timestream (implied in his previous flashback episode), or it's just your basic gaffe by the writers.

miss wonderstarr

15:23 / 20.04.07

If they broke up on the spot, just "on the South Bank" (Hawaii) after the photo was taken, she wouldn't have had to track down the photographer. I take your point! just fan-wanking really.

15:38 / 20.04.07

Sorry totally unrelated but you know what I've been thinking, I'm thinking that awhile back there was an episode where Juilette seemed to be in trouble with the others on trial almost and she came back with a symbol burned into her skin, now I'm thinking that she wasn't in trouble but this mark was um marking her promotion to a 'real other' it fits in nicely I think, especially with the stuff mentioned previously with Goodwin.

A flashback showing what happened behind that door would be nice.

miss wonderstarr

16:35 / 20.04.07

I think we must have seen Ben's back extensively during the surgery scenes, though ~ wouldn't he have a brand, as he's definitely "one of us"?

16:43 / 20.04.07

Well maybe he doesn't need one as he was born on the island, outsiders that are accepted are given the mark, just something I was thinking about.

16:56 / 20.04.07

Isn't the brand the same shape that was carved into the tree by Ethan's drop point? Would add fuel to your fire, Beararrgh.

I'm wondering if fan-wank is more necessary for ongoing shows like Lost than it is for, say, movies. Afterall there are so many factors involved in making Lost*, tough time constraints, huge amounts of plot data to reconcile, insane production logistics, continuity issues out the wazzo, staff retention and the pressures brought to bear by the television networks, stuff is bound to slip through, get ignored, or be side-stepped. A bit of creative plot hole-plugging, error correcting, or even a willingness to turn a blind eye might be the best and only way of keeping the Lost experience smooth.

*As some of you may be know my mother works in drama production at Channel 4 (UK terrestrial station), mainly on short series and one-off shows, and it's bloody hard work. I can't imagine what Lost is like to produce.

miss wonderstarr

17:08 / 20.04.07

Both brand and tree-mark are similar to the Cyrillic "Ж". I didn't do the research and comparison myself, obviously.

I think it's inevitable that in a show of this scope and length, there are more inconsistencies and simple mistakes. I also think a "text" of this scope and length develops a very different relationship between producers, show and audience to that around a single film or novel, or one-off TV drama. There's much more sense that the producers (and hence the show) can respond to fan engagement, inserting easter eggs and in-jokes, and ramping up the difficulty level of the puzzles because the writers know how closely and extensively the fans are examining it. It seems to me not very far from the relationship between creators and players in an ARG like The Lost Experience. To give an earlier example, the architects of the ARG The Beast, which became far bigger and more complex than the movie (A.I.) that inspired it, found themselves competing with and challenged by the players as the ARG developed. I'm sure the details in the background of current Lost episodes, like the photo in the monastery (even the bad photoshop is being read by TWOP as a clue), are inserted because the producers know the fans will notice and take it to the "hive mind" of their board communities. Even with something more straightforward like Life on Mars (though it did play around, Lost-style with flashforwards and subliminal cutting in Season 1) the creators have said in interview that they were sticking little clues and references in because they knew the viewers were examining the programme that intently.

miss wonderstarr

17:09 / 20.04.07

Erm, in short... I think it could be proposed that the fans are partly "writing" the show, or that they're in some way co-creators, in that wankery and gap-plugging... and that to an extent, the producers are aware of this, reward it with tidbits and play around with fan expertise.

miss wonderstarr

17:12 / 20.04.07

[NOTE TO SELF: SAVE FOR "GETTING LOST: FAN AUDIENCES AND THE NEW TEXTUALITY"*]

~~~~~~~~~~~~
* I believe there really is a forthcoming academic book called Getting Lost.

17:18 / 20.04.07

Yeah, I've been thinking alot about that relationship myself, MW. It's fascinating.

On the subject of easter eggs, they're a bit of double-edged sword in that they help (they are not the only factor) to encourage a quite unbelievable level of scrutiny and in turn contribute to misleading fans into thinking that that level of attention to detail on behalf of the programme makers can and should be maintained.

17:24 / 20.04.07

Just been and had a look at the Lost easter egg site. Those symbols are mighty similar, yes indeed.

miss wonderstarr

17:32 / 20.04.07

I was just thinking further about the playful way viewers seem to be invited into the fictional world (particularly in the Lost Experience... it's also true in Heroes, with its myspace sites for Claire and Hiro, and at the end of Life on Mars briefly, when the Testcard Girl looks at us and turns off the TV) ~ with regard to some of Sawyer's recent dialogue.

As noted earlier on this thread, the Nikki/Paolo episode had him asking "who are you", and last week's had him joking to Kate "are you discussing your favorite Other?" He's the most playful, trickster character in the cast and it almost seems as though he's teasingly nodding to the viewer there ~ voicing the producers' awareness that this is exactly what fans would be saying to the screen, or on their internet boards.

miss wonderstarr

17:35 / 20.04.07

That is... he's echoing what we're saying, and in turn he's treating us like one of the lostaways ~ incorporating our fan dialogue into the diegetic island dialogue, drawing the way we talk about the show into the island conversation, if you see what I mean. It's not just a playful reference, it's a kind of invitation, almost making us feel incorporated into the cast.

That's a bit of a stretch, but you see where I'm aiming.

17:57 / 20.04.07

I don't think that's a stretch at all. Particularly in light of the Lost Experience which actively presented the fictional space as something approaching real.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

19:03 / 20.04.07

"We have to play every 108 minutes or the island explodes"

21:49 / 20.04.07

Miss W, I thought I'd posted something like that months ago, but I can't find it so I probably imainged it. But I meant to.. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the Lost writers trawl the internets and build their scripts from the coolest fan theories that they see.

In that way the show would be led by exactly what people want to watch, and the alleged pre-prepared "plan" for this show can be fully in place, without any of the scipts being written. In fact, in such a scenario it's probably more likely that little plot gaps appear, than if there were really a full-time professional team of writers. Now that would be ground-breaking. "Reality fiction" TV.

05:05 / 21.04.07

"Who are you?"
~Sawyer

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the Lost writers trawl the internets and build their scripts from the coolest fan theories that they see.

Whilst I think there is definitely some kind of reciprocal relationship I would be very surprised, for all kinds of reasons.

05:55 / 21.04.07

Very surprised if it was done consistently or as a matter of policy I mean.

miss wonderstarr

07:24 / 21.04.07

To what extent do you think the producers and writers do read and respond (within the show) to internet discourse, Boboss?

10:33 / 21.04.07

Do you think they read someone on the internat saying "Wouldn't it be cool if Ruth had the worst Scottish accent ever filmed?"

11:10 / 21.04.07

Shortly after they read a similar comment about Penny.

MW, well, I think they read a lot - judging by the podcast at least. How and if they respond is the question. I'm of the opinion that they do, but in a variety of ways, one of which may be fan ideas finding their way onto the show on occasion.

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