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Lost (US thread)

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13:42 / 24.05.07

>>>One question on Charlie's sacrifice. Was it necessary? My wife and I were questioning why he had to shut the door. Couldn't he have rushed out of the room, yelled for Desmond, and dove into the entry pool, then swam back up to the surface? I don't think the station would've filled for water that fast, once Dimitri's grenade blew up the hatch window...I think Charlie and Desmond would've had plenty of time to escape. <<<

This was really bugging me too, the only part in the show where I went "hang on, that doesn't make any sense," but I suppose that Charlie still was heeding Desmond's prophecy, that he had to drown or else no one would be rescued.

As for the station filling with water - apparently a moon pool has to be contained in a pressurized room in order to keep the water from flooding in. If the airtight seal is broken then the water immediately flash-floods the space. If Charlie had run out into the main area of the station, when the grenade broke the window in the comm room it would depressurize the entire station and it would fill with water in an instant, likely drowning Charlie and Desmond before they could put on the scuba gear or swim outside.

13:47 / 24.05.07

And actually, writing that out made me realize that's why Charlie locked himself in and sacrificed himself - in addition to fulfilling Desmond's prophecy, he knew that both of them would die there if he didn't, and he wanted at least Desmond to make it out alive.

Although there's nothing to suggest that Charlie was smart enough to understand pressurization and moon pools and stuff.

14:20 / 24.05.07

>Although there's nothing to suggest that Charlie was smart enough to understand pressurization and moon pools and stuff.<

Exactly! And if I'd been in his position, I would've just ran for the door -- thereby causing the death of both myself and Desmond. Thanks for the explanation. I'm familiar with the "pressure break in an airplane" scenario, but never knew it was true for underwater as well. Though it makes obvious sense once you think of it.

It's maddening though, isn't it? Stuff like this, they have to stick with "real life," ie Charlie had to bolt the door (and die), because realistically the station would flood instantly and both he and Desmond would die. So this holds true with how things would really happen. Yet this is the same show where Kate's horse magically appears, a spirit controls the island, a paralyzed man is able to walk again.

I'm really thinking somehow Lost will affect time itself. There's no way we can continue on with the show, knowing that in "the future," once they're off the island, Jack will be relegated to a suicidal drunk. Something has to happen which will prevent this...though of course my wife disagrees, saying that "only what happens now" matters, and that it's no big deal that Jack eventually comes to such a pathetic state.

14:24 / 24.05.07

Sudden realization!

In Jack's "flashback," recall the scene where he was arguing with the other doctor. Jack yelled, "Call my father down here, and if he's not as drunk as I am, you can fire me!" Or something along those lines.

Now that we know this flashback was really in the future...what does that mean?? Is Jack's father still alive? Or was Jack so drunk he actually thought his dad was still among the living? Or was it just total misdirection from the writers?

14:44 / 24.05.07

It was obviously misdirection from the writers, but I'm assuming that since Jack is fucked up on booze and prescription-strength painkillers, he's just delirious at that point. The doctor he says it to reacts with a look of concern and pity. Earlier in the show Jack tries to use his father's name to get his drugs, and when the pharmacist says she'll have to call him to confirm Jack says "he's not there, he's away" and then storms out, so I think Jack's dad is still dead.

17:35 / 24.05.07

That was fucking good, just done watching.

I'm going over the easter egg site now, it's really got people talking.

I like that idea posted by Keith about season 4 being set in the present with the flashbacks being set on island.

Are we sure that Jacks dad really is dead though, I mean we never did see the body did we? But yeah it's probably just misdirection.

Lots of possibilities for the J mentioned in the newspaper, but it would have to be someone relatively famous to get a mention in the paper like that (front page I think).

And it looks like whoever it was committed suicide. My money is on ..... Locke I think.

Edward Mekka hates graphix

17:56 / 24.05.07

Does anyone have an opinion that this show is over? I mean, I read a few weeks ago that it was slated for a few more seasons, but could this be the biggest heist of a following?

I ask because it was indeed a nailbiting 2 hours, but seemed to end with everything answered in the last 4 minutes. Jack was in the present, Ben was captured, everyone was rescued, Desmond and Charlie did their part. The show seems like its going to be boring now that we know that everyone was rescued. This show took place on an island. They are off the island now. Case closed. my $.02

18:17 / 24.05.07

I see your point, but I really believe the Jacob spirit will factor into things. I don't believe a show would end, knowing that the characters are doomed to a horrible future. Something's going to happen, something on the island will affect the future plotlines. I think this season finale was great in that it's thrown us all off so much, but I'm sure -- once future seasons have played out -- we will see that it was just another example of misdirection from the writers...maybe the way the future COULD work out for the islanders. At least, that's what I'm hoping.

Otherwise, it would be like sitting through Die Hard, struggling to survive right there along with John McClane, and then finding out in the end he was doomed to re-enacting the same situation 3 more times, and his wife leaving him to boot.

18:20 / 24.05.07

If Charlie had run out into the main area of the station, when the grenade broke the window in the comm room it would depressurize the entire station and it would fill with water in an instant, likely drowning Charlie and Desmond before they could put on the scuba gear or swim outside.

Unless he...I dunno...pulled the door closed behind him?

18:35 / 24.05.07

Yeah...but also like Cameron said above, I figure we're to assume that Charlie was thinking of Desmond's prophecy. IE, Charlie had to die so that the others could be rescued. I KNEW either he or Desmond were going to die as soon as Charlie asked Desmond if he'd had anymore visions, and Desmond said no. It just seemed an eerie question.

I wonder who the people on the ship are? The Dharma Initiative, looking for revenge?

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

19:12 / 24.05.07

I thought this was a really smart finish, it really impressed me a lot. I was absolutely sucked in by the Jack forward, and I'm really glad! I knew something was up, but I'm glad I got to enjoy the reveal.

It seems like a really good move for the writers - the set up at the end for what's to come. Essentially breaking out of the writing cul-de-sac that is 2004 and the days/weeks timeline, freeing up all the space from 2004 to the present (the date on the paper Jack reads is apparently April 07, whether that means anything or not) to work freely in. They've really altered the boundaries and I'm excited to see what they'll do after opening out the Lost sandbox so, while integrating the same core concept.

I think Jack's storyline - in the present - will be how he returns to the island. And who he can get to go back with him. And it doesn't feel like a cop out at all either, to me. I really like that they've flipped it like this. Ben was right all along. And who doesn't get off the island? I don't think it's any coincidence that the group is split the way it is at the end of episode.

And - what becomes of Locke? He's the king of the jungle now...

I saw somebody else posit that it is perhaps Michael's funeral that Jack attends, and I think I like this theory more than all the others. Enough that nobody would want to go, but leaving the other pieces in play.

This was absolutely some of the best television I've seen in a while, in that manner only Lost can do. There were so many great moments packed in there! I'm really looking forward to the next - what, three seasons?

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

19:36 / 24.05.07

Does it seem like once it was announced that there was a solid end date the show got way better?

I wonder how much of the story the writers were holding back so they could dose it out slowly if the show went X-Files long.

20:15 / 24.05.07

I've just watched the last three episodes. I am the happy!

Happy!

I know this is juvenile but I just can't help comparing this to Heroes, which, frankly, isn't anywhere near as good telly.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

20:18 / 24.05.07

I am juvenile too and I agree! Having two finales in such close space to each other, well, Lost just kind of blew it right out of the water.

20:20 / 24.05.07

Because it's so much better on just about every level.

And I got to see THREE episodes back to back. Teh rock!

20:51 / 24.05.07

It was one of the best season finales I've ever seen...reminded me of 24 back when it was good (aka last year).

20:59 / 24.05.07

I think what I liked most about it was the fact that it really wasn't what I was expecting. I was expecting more weird science, more statues or a glimpse of the temple when in fact most of the thrills and wow moments came from nothing but humans (most but not quite we can't forget 6' Walt).

09:54 / 25.05.07

I think it was Ben in the coffin. Not committed to the notion, though.

Right then. I'm keen on Keith's idea too. It makes a lot of sense and would really re-energize the show, and, you know, throw up a whole raft of questions - so we're in quintessential Lost territory to boot.

So, who's been "rescued" and what's happened to them now that they're back in the world, and who, if anyone, is still on the Island?

Some loose ideas to get the ball rolling

Jack
Lonely and filled with regret and going barmy. Also a really famous "hero" hence the beard.

Kate
Somehow pardoned. Not running anymore. Living with Sawyer, perhaps avec le enfant

Sawyer
Living with Kate.

Hurley
Faaaaacking reee-ich! Quite possibly the guy who'll get 'em all back to the Island

Claire and Aaron
Hmmmmm. I imagine she's sad. Can't think of anything else off the top of my head.

Sun
Alive!

Jin
Having problems with Sun's dad? Hope not

Locke
Still on that Island!

I'm wondering if the standard status quo is going to flip. Will we see a happy Sawyer and Kate, a Hurley who's thrown himself into an ephemeral world of wealth and celebrity? We've already encountered a Jack Shepherd who's lost his way, and ain't too good at fixin' anyone.

11:08 / 25.05.07

Oh, and I just checked. The paper Jack gets the obit from is an edition of the LA Times from this year. So, two and a bit years into the future then - that's a fair chunk of time.

12:24 / 25.05.07

Maybe the guy who Kate references isn't Sawyer. Given the timeframe perhaps she's fallen in with another of the Losties...

12:29 / 25.05.07

I was thinking Kate's either with Sawyer, or the guy she planned to marry in a past flashback -- the cop played by Nathan Fillon (sp?).

My concern if they change the structure, making the "after the island" stuff take place in the present, with the island material taking place via flashback...wouldn't that be a little like "The Nine?" This was an ABC show which would show a few scenes which took place during a bank robbery...then the rest of the episode would be several days later, and you were supposed to wonder who made it, what happened, etc (sorry for vague/incorrect details; I didn't watch the show). Anyway, "The Nine" only lasted for a handful of episodes.

12:42 / 25.05.07

I see nothing inherently wrong with it. It's not derivative as Lost has been building on flashbacks since the beginning, and even if it was I'm not sure I'd care. It's the execution that counts, innit?

The only worry I have is that show will lose something by being off-Island. That the Island is a big part of it's core appeal and that the second it takes back seat the viewers will start to lose interest. Not hugely concerned, but I think the creators are taking a risk if they decide to go Keith's route.

That said, however, I've had a niggling feeling throughout Season 3 that we might be due a sojourn on the mainland. Something pretty heavy needed to happen to the status quo in order to reinvigorate the show and head off the threat of sameiness.

Keith, like a scientist

12:52 / 25.05.07

I hesitate to post another AICN link, but somewhere in their finale talkback, one of the AICN writers posted that he got confirmation that next season will feature both 'flashbacks' and 'flashforwards'. So the "island is the flashback" is still possible, but it sounds a little like we might be seeing somewhat of a status quo, with the 'flashforwards' used at special times... just conjecture based on the above info.

13:01 / 25.05.07

I like that idea better -- flasbacks and flashforwards. BTW, I didn't mean Lost would be derivative of "The Nine," I just meant that it's structure already failed once (ie, the whole, putting together the pieces via flashback on how characters got where they are in the present).

13:10 / 25.05.07

Re-Reading my post, I see I am arguing against the structure Lost has already established, so let me try again. I just mean taking us out of the established "present" of the show, ie on the island, and making the world of 2006 the new "present" of the show, would no doubt incense many fans...particularly those who don't post on forums, etc (and who apparently make up the meat of the viewing audience which ABC must keep happy). That would constitute a retool of the show, and I'm not sure it's necessary. But my other argument is, "The Nine" followed the same method, with a major event occuring via flashback to a large group of people, and then piecing the strands together in the future situations...ie who made it, who didn't.

I mean, one thing I was happy about this season was that they were spending MORE time on the island and less on the flashbacks, so I hope next season continues the trend.

13:22 / 25.05.07

Again, it comes down to the execution. I think people would stick with it if it was done well.

Keith, how you can wade through all that banality, stupidity and childishness is completely beyond me. Can post a direct link so I can read it without having to sally forth through all that bloody nonsense?

Keith, like a scientist

13:28 / 25.05.07

I usually skim the list of talkback entries for things that interest me, and only read ones from the AICN staff (which are always black and grey shaded) or if someone has direct links to streaming trailers or anything... I could never read or (gasp) contribute to a talkback.

Direct link to MiraJeff comment.

13:39 / 25.05.07

Gonna be interesting to see how they handle the flashbacks and flashforwards in the same season. Things could get very confusing and messy.

Perhaps some character arcs will be set in 2004, and others will be set in 2007.

13:48 / 25.05.07

Sorry to go on.

Something that people have been remarkably quiet on is that despite the lack of mega-revelations the show just delivered an answer to an enormous question, perhaps the driving question of the series: how are the characters going to get home?

And that takes me neatly onto one of the main reasons I find the idea of a chunk (if not the bulk) of the show set off-Island appealing: it brings back a sense of straightforward, unifying purpose, i.e. how are the characters going to get back to the Island again?

One huge dramatic question replaced by another, basically.

13:55 / 25.05.07

And certainly ironic...the whole crux of the show was the desire of the characters (save for Locke) to get off the island...and the flash-forwards are going to be about them trying to get back ON it?? It's like the TV drama version of the orouboros symbol.

14:21 / 25.05.07

They're gonna have to retitle the show "Found".

14:35 / 25.05.07

My friend HATED the ending for some reason. He said it was the dumbest thing ever. His reasoning was that they hadn't ever done a flash forward before. I was like 'Uh yeah. That's the point. Something new to throw everyone in a tissy for the season finale.'

Any way I loved it because it opens all these NEW questions.
1) Locke told Jack 'You're not supposed to do this.' So what does he know now that the island is talking to him again?

2) Who were the people on the boat since Locke and Ben both said they were the bad guys? And we know that they are not from Penny.

3) What happened that Jack thinks they have to get back to the island? Something big has to have happened that Jack thinks they made a mistake.

4) Where is everyone else? We know what happened to Jack. We know that Kate is at least okay. Did everyone make it off alive?

So that just makes me want the new season to start next week. But that's what a good season finale is supposed to do.

Keith, like a scientist

14:40 / 25.05.07

Something that people have been remarkably quiet on is that despite the lack of mega-revelations the show just delivered an answer to an enormous question, perhaps the driving question of the series: how are the characters going to get home?

Boboss, perhaps I'm missing something, but they definitely did not answer "how they...," and only marginally answered the more paramount question of "do they...".

We have no idea how Jack and Kate got off the island, and how many other people came with them...

I'm completely convinced that the boat coming to get them are Dharma/Hanso people and not rescuers.

14:57 / 25.05.07

Sorry, I was aware of the possibility that things are more complicated than I've sketched. I'm just thinking through the idea that they do indeed make it off, and that it's a fairly straightforward process, and, even if it isn't, I'm not sure that necessarily has to pose too many problems for the idea that the show is about to develop a new driving question.

I can feel myself becoming entrenched here which is a bit of bore. Must resist the urge. I just think that what I'm proposing could really freshen up the show, and going into the 4th Season I think it needs it.

Keith, like a scientist

15:11 / 25.05.07

I completely agree, which is why I love the way the story telling is going. It's as if they are now telling the story of how they get off the island from 2 directions, which is completely great... presumably the end of the series is when those 2 directions meet up in the middle. Gotta love a show that ends in the middle of it's overall time frame. Two Thumbs up.

For me the biggest and most fascinating questions are no longer about the island history/properties, but:
-How do they get off the island?
-Who makes it?
-Why is Jack now convinced they shouldn't have left?

I can't wait.

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