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Lost (US thread)

 
  

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wicker woman
10:49 / 22.03.07
It could well be the smoke creature, for all we know. It was almost certainly Mr. Eko's 'brother' just before Eko was killed, and I suspect that it has assumed the forms of various other peoples' "hallucinations". Hurley's bird, and friend from the asylum, Kate's horse, Jack's dad, etc. From its first encounter with Eko, we know it can read minds somehow...
unfortunately, this theory doesn't account for why other people can't see always see these things.

Speaking of, I wonder if the SM is the one on the Others totem pole above Ben, as Locke's fence tester indicated that there was someone.
 
 
gridley
14:04 / 22.03.07
So what did you all think was in the "box"?

I was really hoping that the box would open to reveal a wheelchair-bound Locke.
 
 
Triplets
17:50 / 22.03.07
That would've been great.
 
 
NewMyth
18:30 / 22.03.07
Nico, your theory could still apply, if the SM affects people's minds, only the particular indivdual(s) it "possesses" would see things, not everyone.

I assumed the someone above Ben would be Mr. Halvor(?) Hanso and his Foundation...

gridley, yes that would've been tres cool... shades of The Prisoner.
 
 
Spaniel
20:38 / 22.03.07
So then, Locke is back to being the most interesting character in the show. Very good.

If the box - in a sphere type way - presents you with whatever you come to it with, no wonder the Others are so hung up on getting a certain type of person on their team.

Heroes firing on all cylinders. Lost firing on all cylinders. Light entertainment is at it's most entertaining right about now, I'd say. That is, it would be if Heroes would make its bloody way back to our screens.
 
 
Tim Tempest
21:20 / 22.03.07
Hear Here!
 
 
buttergun
12:37 / 23.03.07
>>So. Best show ever, at this point, correct? <<

Y&B, I seem to recall you from the Arrested Development thread, so I wonder how -- as a fan of that far superior show -- you could make a claim like this.

In fact I blame Lost as one of the reasons AD was cancelled. Look at it -- Lost is a bloated, self-involved, slow-burning melodrama that takes forever to say ANYTHING. The "big reveals" this season have been three years late (ie Locke's wheelchair story, etc).

But look at AD -- the fastest moving show ever. In thirty minutes at least three subplots would arise and -- GET THIS -- actually be solved by the end of the show. And on top of that, the threads would carry on to future episodes, making for the best of both worlds: both self-contained and part of a larger whole.

People can't handle that. They obviously like to be slowly lead around by slumbering, slothful, slow-moving shows like Lost.

That being said, this week's episode was very good. But best show ever?
 
 
buttergun
12:40 / 23.03.07
>>Heroes firing on all cylinders. Lost firing on all cylinders. <<

And don't forget 24.

On second thought...DO forget 24. This season bites the big one. This is the first time I can say I much prefer Lost to 24.
 
 
Spaniel
14:03 / 23.03.07
I don't watch 24 as the politics put me off, so I can't comment. I am told it's very entertaining.
 
 
buttergun
14:38 / 23.03.07
Yes, Season 5 in particular. Currently they're on Season 6, and the plummet in quality has been jawdropping. Don't want to go on too much more as it will get us off-topic; I'll just say check out the first five seasons. Plus you'll get to see our boy Sylar from Heroes in Season 3, playing a nonentity computer tech...think he had like ten lines in the entire season.
 
 
Spaniel
14:59 / 23.03.07
Maybe I will. The question is, do I have time in my life for another show? Do I even have a life...?

These are important issues that must be resolved!
 
 
Mug Chum
16:55 / 23.03.07
Concur on buttergun's AD statement (I still watch every once in a while, and still find callback jokes and meta jokes I'd never seen before -- it could have all of the Lost's websites of gathering info, only in a coherent way). So dense and so 1st time friendly at the same time...

I used to watch Lost somewhat "religiously" on the 1st season (meaning I watched all episodes). I've just watched Jack's tattoos and Sayd's torture episode and in the entire time I couldn't shake off the feeling of "why should any of this be of any interest for me, the plot or the series?". I'm feeling they should start hitting the accelerator towards the final big bang, at least the episodes might not be so great, but it'd have a sense of self-importance at least.

It used to be unbelievably great the wtf factor involved in a huge mysterious unseen monster and a polar bear on a tropical island, and stuff like that. Now from what I gather they're still trying to get that sense and moments, forgetting they're already in the 3rd season instead of the 1st episode. I'm feeling like there are comic books editors behind the whole thing ("ok, now you get to actually SEE the monster!"... "well, what is it?... hello? hello?... ok, back to the forum"), and I get mildly amused that many friends with no previous geek culture are acting like Marvel readers or something.
 
 
NewMyth
09:39 / 29.03.07
Enjoyed tonite's! Just about every character had some appearance. Good 'ol Arntz, Ethan, the incest kids, etc., Ben sneaking around, manipulating. Flashback stuff -- but the Standing Still Effect didn't feel so pronounced.

Does anyone know of a Japanese style or genre of literature, where there is no main character, almost every character gets about the same focus? I seem to recall Philip K. Dick talking about that, re his Man In The High Castle, which was somewhat like that. That's what Lost is doing in its own awkward way -- sometimes more effectively than others.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
12:16 / 29.03.07
I kept chuckling at how they inserted these new characters into old scenes and made it work. It's like the most successful retcon ever.

The paralysis seemed obvious after awhile, but their fate was unexpected, I thought.
 
 
Spaniel
19:10 / 29.03.07
Fun enough thriller filler
 
 
FreakWolf
20:05 / 29.03.07
I read this on thetailsection.com. Interesting to see where the idea for the characters came from:

Special thanks to Ryan for pointing this out! Ryan alerted me to a play called Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead, which chronicles the lives of two characters played out against the backdrop of events from Shakespeare's Hamlet.

In Hamelt, the two characters are charged with determining Hamlet's motives, and plans. Instead they, themselves are killed. The characters are thrust into the universe of Hamlet in much the same way that Paulo and Nikki were thrust into ours, by the will of the writer. Inasmuch, they seem to serve no valid purpose and are generally mocked throughout for being the extraneous folk they are.

In "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead", however, much like Expose is Nikki and Paulo, the playing field is reversed and they are the major characters with Hamlet seeming to be the character with misappropriated importance.

More info can be found at Wikipedia.
 
 
wicker woman
03:46 / 30.03.07
Um, is it just me, or did this episode completely not fit into the time line? Assuming Paolo hid the diamonds in the Pearl station before the Boone-killing heroin plane fell on top of it, the trip during which he saw Ben and Juliet watching Jack on the monitor... how were they watching Jack? The plane fell well before they had the first hatch open, so there should have been no way for Ben and Juliet to see anyone in that hatch but Desmond.
 
 
NewMyth
06:01 / 30.03.07
FreakWolf/Ryan: Great observation re the echoing of "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead." At least the basic idea of seeing a couple minor characters from their point of view, as major characters, and our regulars as background persons. The Bard's "Every exit is an entrance somewhere else."

Sawyer's "Who's Nikki?" said it all; a wink for the fans. The Whodunnit structure was a nice playful change of pace.

Nico, you may be right. Things have gotten so convoluted, it's hard to recall event chronology. I've kind of gotten past parsing it all out. I'm weary, but do still enjoy the unique Lostian hijinks.
 
 
buttergun
12:34 / 30.03.07
The reviewer at EW.com summed it up best:

''Man, I can't believe they wasted a whole hour on those two, especially after last week, which was one of the best episodes of Lost ever! I wanted to see how Jack and Juliet dealt with the destruction of the submarine! I wanted to see if Ben let Kate and Sayid leave Otherville! And I wanted to see what happened with Locke and his dad! What I didn't want to see was @#$%! Paulo and @#$%! Nikki! The best thing about this episode is that they got killed — because at least I know my time will never be wasted on those two ever again.''

Sawyer's "Who the hell are you?" was funny the first time...last week. It got tiresome after a while, a bit TOO forceful a wink to the fans.
 
 
Spaniel
13:07 / 30.03.07
Filler* episodes are an interesting beast - I have a real love/hate relationship with them. On the one hand I do want to get to the meat of the plot. I did want more Locke, more Jack, more Kate and more of the Others this week. On the other hand I like a bit of redundancy, because if it's played right it can add depth and dimension to a show, it can make the experience seem more total, more immersive. Quite what I mean by played right is complicated, though. For example I'm not entirely sure I always demand meaty character progression or extra expository detail - two things often trotted out as necessary for a good filler show - sometimes I just want to wallow in a certain character, a certain tone (the last Hurley episode), a certain setting, the stuff that I'm invested in and that I like.

Too much filler and a show risks losing me, but too little is also a problem, imo.


*In an attempt to define terms, when I say filler I mean stuff that doesn't connect, or only connects loosely with the major plot threads. This is obviously a slightly inadequate definition, but it'll have to do
 
 
CameronStewart
13:14 / 30.03.07
Who would have thought that a single flight would have so many criminals on it?
 
 
Spaniel
13:19 / 30.03.07
It was FATE!
 
 
buttergun
14:41 / 30.03.07
I'm all for filler, in fact filler episodes are sometimes my favorite (the Season 3 episode of Buffy which spotlighted Zander on the night he lost his virginity to Faith, fought zombies, etc, is my all-time fave Buffy episode)...but you know, only when they concern major characters.

This week's ep just came off as the producers patting themselves on the back at how clever they are. So the intro of these annoying (and poorly acted) two new characters was just one big shaggy dog joke. Hey look, they're new...but they really are unimportant and are inessential to the plot.

That's fine...but again, playing this episode now just shows how little the producers understand narrative thrust. They're FINALLY answering questions, getting things done, and what do they do? The usual "half step forward, two steps back" method favored by Lost...only this time it was more like five steps back. In essence they wasted a full hour on characters who were even less interesting/essential as Boone and Shannon...and just to drive that home, they actually featured Boone and Shannon in the episode!

I did however enjoy the Charlie/Sun bit, with Charlie's revelation, if only because it showed how screwed up last season was. "Yeah, Sun, I kidnapped you last season, when I was all dark and disturbed. But since the writers seem to have forgotten that -- probably because we have new ones this year -- I'm back to normal...and almost forgot about it anyway. Didn't you?"

But yeah, "best series ever," or something.
 
 
Spaniel
14:55 / 30.03.07
I don't think it was a step back in any way, it was a pause in the action with a tiny bit of plot movement thrown in.

I appreciate what you're saying about breaking the flow. As I said, I'd rather they hadn't done this at this point, but I don't think this kind of thing is peculiar to Lost, it's just more apparent in a show that is so heavily engaged with its mythology and that - and this is crucial - runs for 20 plus episodes a season.

I'm actually more than happy to have filler episodes about z-list characters, as long as I can be made to care in some way shape or form (note: this doesn't necessarily include caring about the characters in question) in the time it takes to tell the episode. That's just the challenge of yer standard non-serialized drama
 
 
Red Concrete
16:40 / 30.03.07
Assuming Paolo hid the diamonds in the Pearl station before the Boone-killing heroin plane fell on top of it

Did the plane fall on top of it? I don't remember that. Either way, there was plenty of time between Locke and Eko discovering the Pearl, and their trip there with Nikki and Paulo earlier this season.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:30 / 31.03.07
I really enjoyed that one ~ like a guest issue in a long-running comic book story, where a new writer and artist get the chance to play around with the universe and existing characters for just a single one-off. It was clever, jokey and knowing (not just "who's Nikki", but Hurley's comments about the Expose plot twists and the way he'd been kept guessing four seasons for a dumb revelation ~ and the opening, which had a lot of fun defying expectations, toying with real dialogue vs televisual cliche, and cameoed Billy Dee Williams!)

None of it was shockingly novel, but I found it all very pleasing ~ even learning its strategies and predicting its next moves was entirely satisfying.
 
 
gridley
12:31 / 01.04.07
Who would have thought that a single flight would have so many criminals on it?

Well, it was a plane from Australia.


I enjoyed this episode. It was fun, clever filler.
 
 
Spaniel
16:56 / 02.04.07
Just finished watching the videos that were the fruits of the Lost Experience. Very spoilerific, I'd say, at least in terms of the mythos, although they still leave plenty of room for other revelations and surprising plot stuff.

I'm actually fairly glad I bothered.
 
 
Spaniel
16:57 / 02.04.07
...And I fully expect a chunk of those spoilers to be revealed in show this season, but with extra detailed knobs on.
 
 
Triplets
19:28 / 02.04.07
Well, it was a plane from Australia.

Oh ho, gridley. You're hilarious. Next you'll be saying Brits are extras from Trainspotting, Scots are shite-talking alchies and most Asian people live under an oppressive feudal patriarchy. Not on this show, buddy!
 
 
Mug Chum
21:50 / 02.04.07
I couldn't get pass how uncomfortable Santoro was in some of the scenes, and how Nikki's actress was over-used as eye candy while she appeared to see no problem with her lines, her character and their context and situation in her vague witty-tv-drama generic delivery (and that whole initial "this is lame tv" scene was brutally appalling on too many levels, as well as the "bullet proof breasts" flasher to bring the stripper "faux"-exploitation home, and the couple's entire scheme... ok, and most of the diamond-hunting scenes as well).

And how hammered were all the little "medusa, spider regina, poisonous, treacherous, torning apart, meta-couple, meta-death, bury" etc etc...? Although there was a good incest joke on Boone and Shannon while the show compared the two equally obnoxious couples.

I'd still prefered if the supposed filler episode was turned into a major revealing plot point or greater retcon twist towards the end. It gave a cute almost-valueless microscopic twist on perspective on some scenes (others, those two were forced-in horribly -- like in Jack's speech, the camera was waaay too focused on shouting to us "see, they're here! HERE! Ok, I'll just fill the screen with her face in case you might be watching from the kitchen!"), but there could have been nicer twists of greater retcon significance to add a special cherry on the filler ice-cream.
(I agree with Boboss, sometimes a filler with totally plot-impertinent points or characters can bring home some other important stuff, like tones and settings -- but I don't think it's the case here, specially on Lost. If the show was focused, this could actually be a welcomed and pertinent episode, due to it's "filler" status, but Lost became itself a filler entirely for a long time -- c'mon, a entire second season on a bunker so it could blow up in the last episode? Total filler! -- which made the existence of this episode to have absurdly more negative points than positives).
 
 
wicker woman
05:54 / 03.04.07
Did the plane fall on top of it? I don't remember that. Yah, it did. Locke and Eko later pushed the burned remains of the plane out of the way in order to be able to open the doors leading down into the hatch.
 
 
Spaniel
14:40 / 03.04.07
SS, I'd have a lot more sympthay with your point of view if I didn't think Lost was primarily a melodrama, as it is I do and therefore don't think the entire second season was a waste.

Sorry fr the terse post but I have to get a train right noooowwwwww.....
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:46 / 03.04.07
This episode made me laugh a couple times with its tongue-in-cheek nods to how corny and retcon-ish it was, and I think that's all it was meant to do. So it was a quite welcome break from the teasing mythology episodes, which are always cool, but never quite satisfying in the way you want them to be, ya know?

I guess I wouldn't call it filler, because it was so purposefully a nudge and a wink to fans who have been questioning and criticizing the pretty and new couple this season. So, in the end, I say, Thank You Lost, For The Meta!
 
 
buttergun
15:32 / 05.04.07
Pretty good episode last night. Really think it was for the guys in the fanbase, though...two girls running around handcuffed, fighting, even mud wrestling. I wasn't complaining.

And for once Kate's backstory wasn't yawn inducing. Most likely because she was paired with a stronger, more interesting character.

So Locke's gone over to the Others? And how should we read that look he gave Kate when he told her the Others had revealed her past to him, and what she'd done?

Who else immediately saw through Hurley's ruse?
 
  

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