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Lost (US thread)

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14:36 / 13.04.07

I think Juliette may be there to monitor Sun, who as we know is pregnant.

Anyway, a fantastic episode, one of the best ever, I think.

And no one's yet mentioned the single best line this entire season, Juliette's "I had the day off."

14:41 / 13.04.07

Wow, yah, that's a bloody good point about Sun. If she is on the beach because of the character I don't imagine she's simply going to passively monitor, though. Something suitably dramatic does have to come of her presence, afterall - this being a drama, an' all.

Sun and Jin have had a low profile this season so I'm thinking now might be the right time to beef up their involvement.

miss wonderstarr

06:46 / 15.04.07

That episode became great in about the final 3 minutes.

miss wonderstarr

06:49 / 15.04.07

Also, is this the first time it's been revealed that the outside world reported flight 815 as missing, and that it was actually a major news story? Which implies, in turn, that there'd be a concerted search for that flight, and that the island really must be supernaturally or super-scientifically off the charts, rather than just remote.

09:28 / 15.04.07

Also, is this the first time it's been revealed that the outside world reported flight 815 as missing, and that it was actually a major news story?

I think so. The only other time we've been off the Island in anything other than a flashback (i.e. before the Losties crashed), was at the end of last Season when we visited Desmond's fiance's weird antartic look-out station. At least, as far as I can remember.

So then, no one else got an opinion on Juliette and Goodwin?

13:16 / 15.04.07

I was surprised at that relationship, honestly. It shows that Juliette committed to the island and to the Others. I had been beginning to doubt that by her actions during the Tumour operation episodes. Could it be that Goodwin's death is driving her at the moment? More than her desire to leave the island and see her sister, since Ben showed her the video of the playground.

miss wonderstarr

13:25 / 15.04.07

Is it possible her relationship with Goodwin ended a while ago? They were together some time before the Lostaways arrived, but I don't think we had any indication that they were a couple since the plane crash (during the "Downtown" scene they didn't interact or seem to respond to each other).

My gut feeling is that they would have to have become estranged for Juliet to apparently have such a minimal (apparent) reaction to Goodwin's death. We've seen her in moments alone, and with other Others, and there's been no indication that she's grieving for him or is motivated to revenge by his death. (Did she know he was dead, until this episode? I can't remember.) It doesn't seem to have impacted significantly on her in any way. She seems to have more of a relationship with Ben and even with Jack than with the late Goodwin.

Maybe it was just a superficial fling? Maybe he never meant that much to her?

13:49 / 15.04.07

Possibly. It's also possible that they threw the scene in as a red-herring in order to stir up the kind of speculation that I've been engaging in, and will flesh out their relationship in a future flashback. I'm gonna go back and have another look at the episode.

13:50 / 15.04.07

Could it be that Goodwin's death is driving her at the moment?

That's exactly what I'm wondering. Quite what it's driving her toward is another question.

14:23 / 15.04.07

The thing that annoyed me about this episode was that it was another place where you're a bit unclear as to what to believe and what not to believe. I mean, we have no reason to believe that Clare reacted as she did as a result of being pregnant, or (if i remember correctly) that anything Juliette said around that particular situation was true. The last two minutes just invalidated most of the stuff she'd said through the episode (although not the stuff we were shown), hence a feeling of learning a lot and then not actually learning very much at all. The last few minutes actually really pissed me off. The Others are regularly represented as super insane brilliant and sneaky in every way and I just can't see how we're expected to believe their foresight when they won't even bloody explain why they wander around the place wearing rags and carrying teddy bears sometimes and other times wear real clothes. It's just annoying.

16:39 / 15.04.07

The Others are regularly represented as super insane brilliant and sneaky in every way

The rags and teddy bear thing is something that is probably best forgotten about. It might be explained, but I'm definitely not holding my breath.

As for the Others' super-sneaky insane briliantness, I think that was substantially undermined earlier in the season with Kate and Sawyer's escape. However Ben's super mad manipulation skillz haven't really suffered much of a dent, so, yeah, in that respect the Others are still slightly absurdly badass. But hey, I think of Ben as a variation on the Edward Morbius/Dr Moreau type, so I allow him some latitude for amazing geniosity.

Keith, like a scientist

16:58 / 15.04.07

isn't the rags thing just about them not wanting anyone who comes to the island to realize they have connections to the real world, homes, electricity, pianos, etc.? I don't it's anymore than what it looks like: costumes to hide their true nature. When Michael came back and said "they live in huts! they are hillbillies!," that seems to say exactly what they want people to think.

miss wonderstarr

17:12 / 15.04.07

The rags thing is actually quite (surprisingly) logical within the show, and quite clever on behalf of the Others, I think. They have a suburban-style Otherville with all mod cons, but to disguise that culture they appeared to the Lostaways looking like ragamuffins.

However, I agree that Ben is presented consistently, almost uncannily as a mastermind, always three cool jumps ahead ~ and as TWOP pointed out, last week recast Juliet as some kind of ninja with the ability to sense Kate's pool cue coming, duck and throw her to the floor in a second.

~~~~~~~~~

I have a possibly dumb question about Lost.

Is it the longest-running single narrative arc on TV?

I can't think of any other contenders. Something like The Prisoner is far shorter. 24 runs in series arcs, rather than one grand story. As far as I know, The Wire's seasons are relatively self-contained. Maybe Babylon 5 was one big "mosaic" storyline that added up in the end (I've only read about it, not seen it); maybe BSG does that, for all I know. The front-runners in terms of broadcast episodes, Doctor Who and Star Trek, have consistent missions or long-term character arcs, but they're clearly not telling a single story like Lost is. Do Deadwood and The Sopranos, or Buffy, tell a single story the way Lost does? I don't know, but I don't get that impression. Lost still seems to be unfolding the same tale it started with, albeit with flashbacks, fillers and digressions. It seems to be going from a beginning to a finish.

Is it, then, unique?

17:13 / 15.04.07

Yeah, come to think of it I'm sure that's right. They did after all put on that big beardy charade in the clearing.

It's amazing what you forget when a show goes on this long and is so dense with information.

17:19 / 15.04.07

Well, BSG is pretty similar in that it's definitely always been going somewhere, but its series are shorter, so Lost deffo wins in terms of time taken.

miss wonderstarr

17:38 / 15.04.07

It's just that sometimes I think, is Lost basically pulp done well, or is it Important TV? On the level I suggested above, perhaps it is groundbreaking.

On an episode-by-episode level, more than anything else it constantly impresses me by constantly surprising me ~ it's always got some bastard twist or trick up its sleeve, and it gets me genuinely on the edge of my seat maybe twice every week, which I think is pretty good going.

18:11 / 15.04.07

As far as Juliet and Goodwin's relationship, I don't think they gave away anything. It could be "sleeping with the enemy" shit, or twoo wuv, anything. There's only one scene, right? Where she's realizing she's been on the island for three years?
They illuminate much of Juliette's anger and frustration with being kept prisoner, even though she continues to play ball with the "others", for unclear reasons.

Of course, now I'm wondering who the hell Jacob is.

As a show, it's just very creative, convoluted pulp; varying between improbable, implausible, and impossible, but engaging as hell.

18:12 / 15.04.07

It might be a little bit groundbreaking I suppose, but I don't think it's important TV. It is, however, very enjoyable well done TV, and I'm more than happy with that.

I love Lost. Love, love, love it, even if it does annoy me sometimes.

00:00 / 16.04.07

The company Juliette goes to work for is Mittelos Bioscience. I guess that's a crappy anagram for "lost time"?

06:50 / 16.04.07

It could also be linked to some potentially spoilerific Lost Experience stuff.

Keith, like a scientist

17:36 / 16.04.07

Is it the longest-running single narrative arc on TV?

I can't think of any other contenders. Something like The Prisoner is far shorter. 24 runs in series arcs, rather than one grand story. As far as I know, The Wire's seasons are relatively self-contained. Maybe Babylon 5 was one big "mosaic" storyline that added up in the end (I've only read about it, not seen it); maybe BSG does that, for all I know. The front-runners in terms of broadcast episodes, Doctor Who and Star Trek, have consistent missions or long-term character arcs, but they're clearly not telling a single story like Lost is. Do Deadwood and The Sopranos, or Buffy, tell a single story the way Lost does? I don't know, but I don't get that impression. Lost still seems to be unfolding the same tale it started with, albeit with flashbacks, fillers and digressions. It seems to be going from a beginning to a finish.

Is it, then, unique?

Babylong 5 definitely has to take the cake as the longest arc driven series. 5 full seasons with story arc pervading almost every episode, unlike Lost, I would say. A case could possibly be made for X-Files, but it wandered so much and didn't really add up coherently in the end, that I don't think I would put it over Babylon 5.

18:47 / 16.04.07

I don't think a good case could be made for the X-Files

17:03 / 17.04.07

While it wasn't mentioned in every episode (sometimes for half a season) on Angel there was the overlying arc that if Angel helped enough people and helped move the balance of power to the side of Good that he would become human again someday. Not as detailed and prevelant as Lost's arc is but it ran over all 5 seasons of Angel.

07:38 / 18.04.07

Last night I rewatched the scenes from Juliette’s flashbacks that detail her relationship with Goodwin, and I can assure everyone here that it is plainly spelt out that she was seeing Goodwin the day before the crash, the logical inference being that they were still an item when he went for his ill-fated jolly in the jungle. Personally I think there are only two conclusions that can be drawn from this (assuming the writers haven’t gone mad and barring unforeseen circumstances on the production) that we are deliberately being fed a red herring or that Juliette’s relationship with Goodwin will be a factor in her story as it unfolds.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

02:15 / 19.04.07

And the "DAMMIT, KATE, RUN!!" Award for Best On Screen Yelling In An Episode Of Lost goes to Desmond motherfucking Hume for his senses shatteringly awesome "AWWWHHH CHAHRLAYYYYYY!!"

This show has the best yelling on television. I love the shit out of it.

10:20 / 19.04.07

Gah.... what a near-pointless episode this week. Really disappointing comedown from the near pitch-perfect high they've been on for the last few eps.

And is it just me... or is Charlie really f'ing stupid? I mean, they've all got experience with Rousseau's nasty little traps on the island, so when you KNOW that you've stepped on a rope, and you can see this relatively lengthy, Rube Goldbergian process starting... WHY would you not duck, or move, or do something besides stand there gaping?

Can't wait for that season finale / Ben's flashback, tho.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

13:17 / 19.04.07

Season finale is a Jack-Back. Happy birthday!

-_-

This was discovered in Desmond's vision:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/roban/lost.jpg

Bringing this episode from "Meh" to "MEEHHHNNNNG!"

15:47 / 19.04.07

The big "clue" this week was the photo of the old lady from the previous Desmond-centered episode. She was seen briefly in a photo on the head monk's desk, standing beside the head monk himself.

I'm sure this is causing much "holy shit!!!" among Lost-freaks, but to me...I think it's yet another example of the producers giving bullshit "clues" which will ultimately lead nowhere.

Also, the level of nudge-nudge, wink-wink going on is too much. IE, Sawyer's line "Are you two arguing over who's your favorite Other?" Funny, sure, but a bit TOO clever...along the lines of his "Who the hell are you?" comments to the annoyingly-new characters this season.

The thing is, it would be fine if Lost had been around for years and years and had a solid track record, ie the Simpsons -- clever little injokes like this would be fine. But what with its disastrous second season and early third, with its slipping ratings, with its frustrating resistance to answer anything -- combined with its easy reliance on spinning new threads -- it just hasn't earned the right to be so clever.

15:53 / 19.04.07

In the scene where his ex's brother smacks Desmond in the mouth, the monk dressed all in white.. who was he? He was familiar. And he had an american accent, I think, which made him stand out. I'll try to find a pic.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

15:56 / 19.04.07

Maybe those kooky in-jokes appeal to folks who's audacity level is a few yards shy of describing the entirety of Season Two as "disasterous".

As someone who clearly doesn't mind making such claims, though, such moments of japery may not be directed precisely towards you.

16:00 / 19.04.07

Some cross-posting goodness bound to be going on here!

The fellow also played the hotel manager in White Rabbit, apparently. I've no idea how I remembered his face..

16:17 / 19.04.07

>>As someone who clearly doesn't mind making such claims, though, such moments of japery may not be directed precisely towards you.<<

I'm not paying attention to YOU until you respond to my Arrested Development challenge directed at ya, a few pages back...heh heh heh.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

16:18 / 19.04.07

Ha! I gotta scroll back. Give me a minute.

16:23 / 19.04.07

Eh, what the hell...

Yes, Season two. In some idyllic future when I have plenty of time to do nothing but goof off...I still don't see myself rewatching Season 2 of Lost. EVER.

Why would I spend precious time rewatching episodes that have nothing to do with anything? An entire season devoted to a hatch, then devoted to pressing the console button in said hatch...and then the fucking hatch blows up?

Why would I spend precious time rewatching episodes which spin the backstories of characters from the tail section of the plane...when all the tail-section characters die??

Why would I spend precious time rewatching a season which spins threads it doesn't bother to answer, or even worse, even acknowledge, ie Charlie's "going to the darkside" subplot which fizzled out, and apparently is supposed to be forgotten now.

But wait, there's more. How about all those visions of Walt, creepily appearing in the jungle, warning not to touch the button? Yet another Season 2 flourish which ultimately has no impact or meaning to the series at hand.

Yes, for these reasons and many, many more, I deem Season 2 of lost to be a monumental failure.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

16:26 / 19.04.07

Oh, okay, "Best Show Ever".

Okay, I'll confess something, I'm the sort of person who, when something really fundamentally appeals to them, for a period of approximately 24 to 48 hours after exposure to said media, considers it truly the finest thing he has ever experienced, whether it's a kick ass episode of Lost with immaculate yelling ("AWWWWHH CHAAAHRLAYYYYY!!" *k-phwip!*) or like the new El-P record, or, say, any episode of Arrested Development.

And my first stop is usually to park myself at the nearest forum and squeal about it like a 12-year old girl.

Did Lost kill AD? I really can't believe that. Sure, it's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but have you ever seen an episode of Heroes or 24? Those are shows whose sheer contempt for character, narrative, and continuity have most certainly instilled a similar contempt in our children and our children's children.

But not Lost. Lost is still a show consistent with its original vision and pedigree (The Stand, The Dark Tower, et al). Does that put on the level of Arrested Development's Infinite Jest? Most certainly not. But I think the human brain, or at least my human brain, can come away from a fantastic episode of either feeling the exact same way:

This Is The Best Shit I Ever Saw.

Until, you know, a Deadwood rerun comes on or something.

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