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Lost (US thread)

 
  

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Triplets
13:55 / 06.04.07
...two girls running around handcuffed, fighting, even mud wrestling. I wasn't complaining.

They didn't even have to talk, hey!! AM I RIGHT, LAD. AM I RIGHT.
 
 
Spaniel
18:47 / 06.04.07
Who else immediately saw through Hurley's ruse?

Me.
 
 
Spaniel
18:55 / 06.04.07
Just done the pausey thing on the Black Smoke scene and come up with nada.

I wonder if that's significant. I wouldn't bet on it, but it is possible, I suppose.
 
 
Spaniel
19:06 / 06.04.07
There is

Very, very, very minor sort of spoiler alert



















Some more fuel to the Black Smoke=Cerberus fire, however.

























End very, very, very minor sort of spoiler alert
 
 
NewMyth
22:24 / 07.04.07
Still love the Smoke Monster sound FX, but its form has kinda lost the scary factor. It seemed to have a lighnting flash this time. And I think Juliette said they know about it, but not what it is.

One big hole to me, is that Ben seems, or claims, to be so knowledgeable about the island, but didn't know about the electro-magnetic swan hatch with Desmond -- until it EMP'd their equipment. Of course, maybe he's lying.
 
 
Spaniel
10:22 / 08.04.07
We've seen the lightning before, though. With Eko.
 
 
Spaniel
07:20 / 09.04.07
...And there were images from Eko's past in it. Hance my comment above about doing the pausey thing: I was looking for similar.
 
 
thewalker
07:51 / 09.04.07
i am barely hanging on here, i love each episode for different reasons, but...

if i was jack meeting ANY others, and being in a position to bargain (as he was) or kate handcuffed to juliet.

i would be drilling those motherfuckers for answers!!!!!

when juliet lists all those facts about jack to kate she wouldve asked, none to politely, how the hell they know so much.

i have a feeling, and hope, that as we find out lockes recent story a lot will be revealed.
 
 
Spaniel
10:37 / 09.04.07
Unfortunately drilling people for answers is something that never seems to happen in Lost. I hold out no hope that anyone's gonna start any time soon.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
22:34 / 09.04.07
I just don't get a lot of the sniping around this show. Lost has always been a mystery-based melodrama surviving on how it relates character. This being the case, they can't and shouldn't provide answers to all the major mysteries in the first half of the entire series proper. Considering the huge number of things that have happened in two and a half years (am I the only one who gets completely thrown every time a character mentions how long in Lost-Time they've actually been on the island?), I think this show is swimming along just fine. We've had plenty of answers to middling questions, and a couple of clarifying answers to more important ones. And there's enough threads being raised in recent episodes to link ideas and theories together in a more fulfilling way.

For example - for me, clearly there are more than one kind of 'other'. There are Dharma 'others', and native 'others' - eg, Ben Linus has mentioned several times that he was born on the island (which would be significantly pre-Dharma according to everything we know so far), whereas Juliet was recruited - and we've been given plenty of hints that at some point these two forces were at war, presumably from when Dharma set up camp on the island, since their timeline seems to start early eighties. In addition, some 'others' are ropey civilians, some are lethal jungle-ninjas, which suggests that some are new to the place just like our hero-protagonists, and some are much more comfortable there. This is all stuff that's become apparent this season - previously, the 'others' were just a mysterious force up to no good. This season has been about clarifying them and who they are, and so far we've been shown a wealth of information, while being told very little, which is the mark of good storytelling. Lost doesn't do exposition, as a rule. You're pretty much required to read into what you see, and form your own conclusions.

My conclusions so far this season? Seems to me that Dharma and the natives have sealed some kind of deal. The natives are continuing to kidnap those they think are necessary, especially kids - why? I think that those born on the island have increasingly been rendered less fertile by the electro-magnetic anomaly, hence the natives constantly trying to up their numbers, stealing kids (Walt et al) and people of child-bearing age (Cindy) or who they think would make a great contribution to their tribe (Eko was an attempted victim, remember?), because they can't expand on their own. Hence why Ben has adopted Alex. I think Dharma, following an initially hostile period, has joined forces with the natives, promising them assistance in solving their fertility problem - hence why Juliet, a fertility specialist, was recruited - in exchange for cooperation. I think the last decade and a half of this detente has seen cross-pollination between Dharma and the natives. Where did the 'natives' come from? There's a fuck-off great sailing ship called the Black Rock sitting in the middle of the island that so far has only been mentioned as a source of explosive. Descendants of the shipwrecked survivors? That's my theory. And Ben's not THE GREAT OTHER that keeps getting mentioned. Maybe he's the mysterious Alvar Hanso? Maybe that's what enabled the Dharma/native detente - the arrival of a charismatic demagoguesque leader who united them both. If Alan Dale ends up being that guy, I will cream my Neighbours-fanboy jeans. And I don't even wear jeans.

And I thought the Paulo/Nikki episode was one of the best filler eps I've ever seen on an arc-based show. Answers a fair few questions legitimately (so what do some of the extras do on the island while the main ensemble cast go have their histrionics? How do they feel about it?) as well as many of the netfan gripes, while still being fun and creepy as hell at the payoff. That really worked for me.

So far I've never watched what I consider to be a bad episode of Lost, just a few average ones and more than a few frustrating ones. As for the latter, I'm open to being frustrated as long as I think that I'll be happy with the payoff to the show. Based on what I've seen in the last sixty or so episodes, I still have oodles of faith in the creative team.

And I'm also happy with the show losing viewers. Way I see it, it was a phenomenon to start with, and all we're apparently losing is those people who, after the honeymoon perod, realised they were watching a genre melodrama and jumped ship. Good. It still has more than enough viewers to sustain it to the claimed goal of five seasons. So far this is still my favourite show on TV.

Sorry for the long post! I can't sleep.
 
 
thewalker
23:10 / 09.04.07
well put hellbunny, i do still enjoy each episode,

its worth remembering though that early on a great solution to the lost puzzle was promised by the producers of the show,...
 
 
Spaniel
10:40 / 10.04.07
So far I've never watched what I consider to be a bad episode of Lost, just a few average ones and more than a few frustrating ones.

On the whole I completely agree with that statement.

Lovely, thoughtful post, Hellbunny, that chimes with a lot of my thinking. I suspect the obsession with kids goes further however. I think the Other's are in the business of trying to forge a certain kind of person, basically, and that they are hell bent on doing so because they are trying to breed the generation that will inherit the Earth after some unspecified catastrophe, and that somehow Ben's box fits in with this goal.
 
 
Spaniel
10:40 / 10.04.07
its worth remembering though that early on a great solution to the lost puzzle was promised by the producers of the show,...

Really, well that would have been bloody stupid of them so I'm glad they reconsidered.
 
 
Bear
11:10 / 10.04.07
Yeah that rocked Hellbunny. I moan a lot about Lost but I still love the show if I didn't I wouldn't take time out to download it every week.

I still get a little frustrated but I think that was due to watching the trailers, I've noticed I've enjoyed the episodes a lot more without the teasing that comes with them.

I think another area of frustration comes from the time differences you mentioned in your post, we've been watching for over 2 and half years now which is why we (me) sometimes wish they'd just stop for a second and try to get some answers but for them its only been a few months a few months where all kinds of shit has gone down.

What's left of this season anyway? 10 episodes?
 
 
Spaniel
11:34 / 10.04.07
7 I think
 
 
Bear
14:28 / 10.04.07
Bless your cotton socks.

I'm with you both on the two tribes thing, although I was expecting the other others not the others we know to be more wild but that doesn't really sit with the smoke (if it's there's and if it actually nano).

I'm loving theories that there's a whole other world (jajaja) under the island.
 
 
wicker woman
03:50 / 12.04.07
Wow. Tonight's ep was a bit out there. I don't know quite what to think about Juliet now...
 
 
NewMyth
05:14 / 12.04.07
Pretty cool ep.

But did the Claire-Juliette backstory make sense? They were secretly giving her shots to help her, but then Ethan on his own kidnapped her? Retconning.
 
 
CameronStewart
13:05 / 12.04.07
That explanation also didn't really make any mention of Ethan's apparent super strength.
 
 
CameronStewart
14:15 / 12.04.07
>>>But did the Claire-Juliette backstory make sense? They were secretly giving her shots to help her, but then Ethan on his own kidnapped her? Retconning.<<<

Also, as we find out at the very end, that whole Claire story told by Juliet could be bullshit anyway, as Ben and Juliet have conspired to plant her in the camp.
 
 
Red Concrete
17:14 / 12.04.07
But did the Claire-Juliette backstory make sense? They were secretly giving her shots to help her, but then Ethan on his own kidnapped her? Retconning.

Ethan was about to be uncovered by Hurley, and wouldn't have been able to give the shots. So he acted alone to bring Claire to somewhere where they could keep helping her. Although, as Cameron points out, it could all have been bullshit.

I wonder if Juliette was in on the destruction of the sub. Ben obviously knew it was coming, but it's not clear if Juliette still thought that was her own way off the island.

As for Ethan, all surgeons have super-strength. Jack's tattoos are actually seals to restrain the power of the seven-tailed surgeon within.
 
 
FreakWolf
18:40 / 12.04.07
I'm surprised that while everyone has been focused on Juliette no one has been questioning what side Jack is really on. I mean we all agree that he was just staying with them for his own purposes to get off the island. But could they have brain washed him during that time? I mean if you really think about it isn't it kind of strange how Kate found him back in the village? Kate was gased and then wakes up in the jungle attached to Juliette. They then spend part of the day walking back towards the village. They stop and sleep by the trees after being attacked by the smoke monster. Then wake up and walk back to the village the next morning. All that time Jack was still knocked out from being gased the day before? I mean I guess they could have gassed Kate, dragged her and Juliette out into the jungle, come back, packed up, and then gassed Jack before they left. Doubtful though. So Kate's wears off almost a day before Jack's does? I think Jack has some hidden agenda that we don't know about yet.
 
 
Spaniel
19:03 / 12.04.07
If Jack's been brainwashed why are Ben and Juliette so hell bent on manipulating him? Wouldn't he be in on whatever they're planning? I suppose he could be a kind of sleeper agent ala Project Mkultra, but somehow I doubt it.

Also, I think we need to be careful with this word "retcon". It's thrown around far too much and is verging on a shortcut to thinking, imo. I'm not saying it doesn't happen - that would be dumb - just that within retconning/continuity there are shades of grey, especially when you're dealing with a show as long as Lost.
Just because an explanation doesn't quite match what we've seen doesn't necessarily mean a retcon is in effect. Writing is, after all, an inexact science.
 
 
Spaniel
19:07 / 12.04.07
Here's a thought: why are women dying at or around childbirth now? I mean, Rousseau gave birth on the Island didn't she, and, well, if Hellbunny's theory is right, if there are natives and Ben is one of them - and it sure seems plausible - how on Earth did they manage to breed if folks ended up dead back then?

New phenomenon surely?
 
 
Spaniel
19:10 / 12.04.07
Triplepostbadness

And Juliette so isn't necessarily working against the Losties. Wheels within wheels where Ben and her relationship is concerned, I reckon. Mind you, if she is doing what Ben wants in this instance, that almsot certainly means he will, at some point in the future, have another way of getting people off the island. Assuming she still wants off the island, that is.
 
 
vajramukti
19:26 / 12.04.07
well the assumption I'm working under is that the island is aborting unwanted births. probably at some point it embraced the presence of the dharma intiative, and then turned on them, similar to how the monster turned on eko. the others then withdrew behind the sonic fence, but the island can still influence conceptions through whatever agency it lets locke walk or keeps rose's cancer in remission. it can't get rid of them, so it sterilises them, and you might even go so far as to say that the reason the plane crashed there in the first place is to introduce a group of people who could act as the islands immune system and expel the others.

when you look at the net effect of the castaways, you have a bunch of dead others, two destroyed hatches, and a sunken submarine. all of which supports the idea that the island wants rid of them but can't do it directly.
 
 
Spaniel
20:18 / 12.04.07
the island is aborting unwanted births.

That did occur to me. Perhaps the Island is also attempting to punish Ben, you know, with cancer.
 
 
Bear
21:05 / 12.04.07
I liked that, lots of posibilties about what's actually going on especially when Lost are fond of the Long Con...

Juilette is playing Ben and will come clean to the Losties.
Juilette and Jack and both playing Ben.
Juilette and or Jack and playing the Losties
Jack knows that Juilette is playing the Losties and is playing her..
etc.. etc..


Anyone else check out the site below, I'm sure it was mentioned much earlier in the thread but it's pretty decent at showing things that you might have missed and I wouldn't really class the discussion as spoilers, it's mostly speculation. Although I'm always worried about bringing something up from there but I'm curious to what people might think about the medical chart part (if you've checked).

Easter Eggs
 
 
Tim Tempest
03:20 / 13.04.07
That Easter Egg site is sweet.

Oh and

BAM!

1500th post.
 
 
Spaniel
06:33 / 13.04.07
"Wake up, the thick head" is what my brane said to me at four o'clock ths morning. "Wake up I've got something to tell you about Lost"

So yeah, I'm terminally sad, but brane did have an important point

The Losties were responsible for the death of Juliette's lover

I'm thinking this could well be significant, after all the creators didn't team her and Goodwin up for no reason. Add to that the fact that they also blew up her ride, and the distinct possibility is raised that Juliette has another important motivation: revenge.

Has the living embodiment of Ana-Lucia hate returned to wreak havoc?

In other news, Juliette's story about Claire looks even more fraudulent when you take into account that business about "the implant" which was apparently "activated" in order to produce her symptoms. It seems likely that Ethan would've had something to do with installing it in the first place.

I wonder when Jack's gonna find out he has a sister. If and when Juliette's revealed to be a treacherous snake, maybe? Would be a nice dramatic touch
 
 
Red Concrete
08:56 / 13.04.07
Hmm, well Juliette must know about the relationship between Claire and Jack. Which reminds me - way back at the start of season 1, didn't Jack find his father's coffin? Which turned out to be empty?

The implant's effects do seem to be relieved by this injection, whatever it is. Wasn't Claire injecting that stuff herself at one point?

Juliette's mission must be very important if Ben has been planning it for that long (i.e. since Claire was kidnapped), and since Ben told J "see you in a week" I imagine we will find out what her target is fairly soon.
 
 
Spaniel
10:24 / 13.04.07
Yeah, the fact that Juliette must know that Claire and Jack are siblings is why is another reason why I think it might be revealed soon.

If Claire and Aaron were to be kidnapped it would give the Others real leverage with Jack if he knew the truth. Having Claire to study would also fit pretty well with Juliette's scientific remit.
 
 
Spaniel
10:37 / 13.04.07
Actually, scratch that. I'm thinking they're probably just as, if not more interested in Turnip Head than Claire in terms of yer sciencey stuff, and possibly in terms of actually getting hold of a kid to raise as their own. They seem to be pretty keen on that.

The implant's effects do seem to be relieved by this injection, whatever it is. Wasn't Claire injecting that stuff herself at one point?

Well, the injection was always going to work as that was part of the plan. The implant was to be "activated" by the Others and then Juliette would turn up and save the day with the vaccine, thereby earning some trust.

Claire was injecting herself with some kind of vaccine at some point, but it's not entirely clear what it was, and I can't remember where it came from. The Staff, I'd imagine. Perhaps Alex gave it to her. Can anyone remember?
 
 
Rhayader
12:33 / 13.04.07
I'm guessing this sort of disease that affects pregnant women was spread by Dharma a few years back, shortly after they were wiped out by the hostiles, as a payback. That would also explain the quarantine sign on the inside of the hatch and why no male was affected.
Things get upside down when i think of Rosseau, since 16 years ago, when Alex was born, this thing happened the other way around: she had a healthy pregnancy, while it was the men of her team who got sick.
 
 
Spaniel
12:45 / 13.04.07
I think that was just a sinister throwaway line, there to suggest his power, influence and ruthlessness. It also provided a suitably threatening context for that line about any pregnant women that survived the crash.
I wouldn't read too much into it. I certainly don't think it's a plot point of any significance.

The women who were tested originally were all Others who got pregnant, as far as I can tell..

I've been wondering whether the "sickness" that Rousseau keeps referring to isn't something to do with the visions the Losties keep having, i.e. not really a sickness in the normal sense of the word.
 
  

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