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The Ultimates 2

 
  

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Mr Tricks
19:52 / 25.05.05
Defenders are a comedic bunch... sort of sad as well.

I feel as though I read this issue before... elsewhere.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
22:03 / 25.05.05
Standard "day in the life" sequence but something about this made it feel more like an episode of some Reality TV show. The Defenders ARE funny and sad at the same time all right; gives us more of an idea of the ground level influence of superheroes on this society. Valkyrie's frustration at there being no clear line between them and Spiderman, for example.

The bit with Wanda and Pietro amused me, makes me wonder at the lovely "not quite subtext" of their "post-human relationship."

Funny and sad and - I don't know - meatier than Ultimates has been lately.
 
 
Aertho
22:43 / 25.05.05
Meatier = grounded-ier?

Yeah, I agree that this issue felt hella different than the Thor stroyline. Weirdness: Darkhawk in the Bugle Spread, when they meant Nighthawk. Now I've read previews, and Darkhawk's coming soon. Which means the paper is fuddled, and there's a slip in the consiparacy, or that Nighthawk will be drafted with a name change, or something else.

That panel of Jan was ug-ly. I sense eating disorder.

Also: Spy = Hawkeye?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
23:17 / 25.05.05
I think the Darkhawk slip was just meant to indicate how completely below radar the Defenders are. But there's going to be an actual Ultimate Darkhawk? Really?

The Defenders actually seemed halfway in the direction of being a critique on the "Ultimate" mentality; Valkyrie and Hellcat having no discernible function (besides Val's purported super-strength) and "verge of reality" underwear costumes. Son of Satan was just cranked and Power Man - um. Said his name. They -are- quite ridiculous, but I'm hoping we get some kind of a breakthrough for them, because there was something fun about them. They deserve a break.

Also, I like how they were contrasted with the Ultimates, who were only people for one short scene and spent the rest of the time as distant figures in the sky.

Black Knight seemed like a dingus, but I really want him to hang out with this version of Captain Britain.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
13:18 / 26.05.05
Hitch's artwork was all over the shop this time - he inked some of it himself, which shows what an addition Neary is to the whole look.
Fun issue, but like Tricks said it felt very familiar. The whole smaal-time aspect was a nice change of pace from the big hitters, but I hope Millar's got more in store for the Defenders than just to contrast them against the Ultimates. Glad to see cap's still being an asshole.
 
 
gridley
15:14 / 26.05.05
I agree on the "seen this before." Too bad this had to come out at the same time as Great Lake Avengers.

I felt like this stuff Hank Pym storyline didn't require it's own issue.

I guess Hawkeye must be the traitor. Or Tony Stark upset at Shield for maybe taking his patents?
 
 
Mr Tricks
15:22 / 26.05.05
I'm leaning towards Tony Stark as the "traitor" for the moment.

The whole Ultron, Vision 2 but was amusing. Particularly Wanda's flirting... getting it on with an android is certainly "post-human" in terms of relationships. Would make for an interesting triangle with Peitro.

Wasp looked scary in that close up though.

the ultimate Dark Hawk/Night Hawk thing is pretty funny when you consider both where lame(ish) 3rd stringers in the original Marvel U.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
15:40 / 26.05.05
For some reason I really want to see more of the Ultimate Defenders. They were useless and lame and silly, but really kinda fun. I love Valkerye (is that misspelled?), and as for the others... well, other than DarkNightHawk, they didn't say much. But they were cool. I liked them.

As with everyone else, what was up with that picture of Jan? I didn't even want to read that page because of it. Ick.

On the Ultimate Traitor. For some reason it felt to me like Millar was trying very hard to convince me it was Captain America, but I don't really buy that. Hawkeye or Stark seem more likely, and I'm gonna go with Stark for one reason. A new issue of Wizard hit the stands the same time as the Ultimates, and they had this little count down of "Who's the Ultimates' Traitor?". Stark wasn't on the list at all. Hence, Stark seems more than suspicous.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
17:20 / 26.05.05
I thought it was Cap for about three seconds, but I think I'm leaning towards Hawkeye in general. He's not had as much development as the others, and it would make him more multi-dimensional than "happily in a relationship and happily a father." He's one of the few Ultimates with no previous ties to the government - he was just an Olympic archer.

Nighthawk = Nite Owl? The designs, especially of their headdresses, are very similar and I thought it was a nice nod to the pretty clear influence Watchman has on the Ultimates.

I agree, I want more Defenders. I'd like to have them fleshed out a bit more, but they have a lot of potential. I see them more as the Legion of Substitute Heroes than the Great Lakes Avengers, tho.

Wondering if Hank and the traitor are going to launch the androids on the Ultimates?
 
 
Aertho
17:22 / 26.05.05
It's Jan.

It's Jan. It's Jan. It's Jan.

She flirts with disaster and is incredibly self-destructive. She's a scientist, not a soldier... and she's the only real pacifist on the team left.
 
 
Bed Head
18:28 / 26.05.05
It’s totally Jan, kids. Sure as Millar is Millar, and the Black Widow’s far too obvious. Expecting a scene with Cap knocking her around. To defend his country, or whatever.
 
 
Triplets
18:47 / 26.05.05
Saw the preview. Giant Men?? Is this the second team Fury was going to introduce? And if Shield can crack the Giant Man formula (without the help of super-brains Pym und Banner) why the hell can't they make some bog standard super-steroids that'll make you all buff and patrio-psychotic like Cap?
 
 
Aertho
19:08 / 26.05.05
Trips:

The Giant Man formula was developed from genes and chemicals in Pym's research. The Gov't paid for the research, so they own the rights. Makes sense that they'd mass-produce the Giant Man serum into a cadre of agents. Since they made fun of Tony and his supersuit last issue.

Fury's "reserves" include: spoilers!













Ultimate Photon, USAgent, Darkhawk and Gilgamesh...
 
 
BrianFitzgerald
21:21 / 26.05.05
Someone over at Newsarama suggested that the traitor might be Hank, in a Fight Club kind of way. There was a lot of talk of Hank's multiple IDs/personas this issue.

The patriotic slant of the traitor's comments to Hank at the end seem to point to Cap or Hawkeye or Fury. Or Betty (daughter of General Thunderbolt Ross), for that matter. But cases can still be made for Tony and/or Widow being the traitor, too. Jan seems unlikely to me, in that she hasn't really expressed a great deal of patriotism, and seems to have really been enjoying the celebrity aspect of being an Ultimate. Plus, I think Hank would've been a bit giddier at the end if Jan had asked him to join her in sticking it to the team.

My favorite bit this issue, and there were plenty of good bits:

The Captain America uniform on Hank's bed at the end. Looks like Valkyrie got her wish.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:32 / 26.05.05
Incidentally, based on this issue - are the European super-soldiers now considered members of the Ultimates? They're sure flying around with them a lot. I'm hoping that this means Captain Britain will get more development, same with the other supers, but based on the fact that Pietro and Wanda don't get much, nor Hawkeye - well - that doesn't leave me with a lot of hope.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
00:34 / 27.05.05
Hitch draws such a wonderful gloved hand and forearm. No lie.
 
 
Triplets
00:52 / 27.05.05
And, if Hawkeye's been bitching about being the only normal on the field team, why doesn't Fury dope him up with some Giant Man-Juice? Stark can build him a big fuck-off bow and rocket-propelled arrow and EVERYTHING.
 
 
Gary Lactus
07:53 / 27.05.05
Don't think the traitor is Tony Stark. Don't think he'd wear gloves. I suspect Hawkeye cos traditionally he's a bit of a tosser.
 
 
Gary Lactus
07:55 / 27.05.05
Though it would be fantastic if it was Cap.
 
 
Axolotl
09:25 / 27.05.05
I have to say this was an excellent issue. I think the Defenders act as a nice counterpoint to the Ultimates; If the Ultimates are what would happen if the government got invloved with superpowers, then the Defenders are what would happen if the man in the street tried it. Both approaches deal with classic super-hero themes in a more modern, dare I say realistic way, but without losing the things that makes super-hero comics interesting.
 
 
Mr Tricks
15:44 / 27.05.05
if Hawkeye's been bitching about being the only normal on the field team, why doesn't Fury dope him up with some Giant Man-Juice?

Isn't this almost exactly what happened in the original Hawkeye? He became GOLIATH just in time for the Neal Adams Kree/Skrull war.
 
 
Aertho
16:00 / 27.05.05
Since the Ultimate Skrull were dealt with last year, and Ultimate Kree are bound to show to follow their emissary, I wouldn't doubt there's another Ultimate War on the horizon. Not sure how that will play out though.

Hawkeye's bound to ask for Giant-Manization. Not sure about the name "Goliath"... as to how that'll play out.

Cap certainly wouldn't call Pym by his first name. He's more inclined to call him "Pym", and move on. He DEFINITELY wouldn't go "Oh, Hank..."

It's Jan. It's Jan. It's Jan.
 
 
Triplets
17:36 / 27.05.05
Nah, it's Bruce. He arranged the whole "fake death" with Loki. Remember how calm he was?

It's Brucie-baby.
 
 
Spaniel
17:39 / 27.05.05
Chad, on the spoilerage, what's your source?
 
 
Aertho
17:53 / 27.05.05
oh god. I go here sometimes for ultimates news:

http://www.comicboards.com/avengers/

They have a scrollie thing with this:

Ultimates Annual #1
Written by Mark Millar
Pencils by Steve Dillon
Cover by Bryan Hitch
"The Reserves"
If you thought The Ultimates were the only team S.H.I.E.L.D. was creating— you were wrong! Get ready for the next wave of super-soldiers designed to protect America’s vital interests. But is this all that Director Nick Fury is up to—or is there much more to this ultra-clandestine program? And can even S.H.I.E.L.D. keep all these super-people under control? Marvel at the first appearances of Ultimate Photon, Ultimate USAgent, Ultimate Darkhawk and Ultimate Gilgamesh!
 
 
CameronStewart
17:54 / 27.05.05
>>>Don't think the traitor is Tony Stark. Don't think he'd wear gloves.<<<

Speaking from the point of view of an artist, I don't think the gloves have anything to do with character, and more to disguise the gender of the wearer from the readers. With Hitch's photo-real style we'd easily recognize a slender female hand or a big male one...
 
 
Triplets
20:02 / 27.05.05
http://www.comicboards.com/avengers/moderator/ultimatesannual1.jpg
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
20:18 / 27.05.05
One of the giant men looked HELLA like Hawkeye. It fits with the ultimization thread, too.
 
 
The Falcon
20:23 / 27.05.05
I've a hunch on Hawkeye.

Just cos.
 
 
chaos_15
12:47 / 28.05.05
It's gotta be Betty.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
19:30 / 28.05.05
http://www.comicboards.com/avengers/moderator/ultimatesannual1.jpg

I am Nick Fury....FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE!

Hitch draws Ol' Saint Nick with the weirdest smile.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
22:39 / 29.05.05
Nick Fury as Uncle Sam? Creepy as hell. I actually wonder if he's more of a threat than we think - I still think that final page of him in the last issue of Series 1, in the Oval Office was weird. Something felt a bit off there.

Betty could be the traitor, but for what reason? To engine Bruce's escape, maybe? I've been rereading the series and it occurs to me that she's one of the more complicated characters in the series, but I've never been able to get a clear bead on her motivations.
 
 
FinderWolf
23:23 / 29.05.05
As for Wanda 'flirting' with the Vision robot, that was kind of bizarre...felt very shoehorned in. I know she's all post-human and stuff, but how much of a 'personality' can the robot have at this point? And it looks like the merest roboskeleton of a roboskeleton. Weird.

Yeah, that close-up of Jan's face was surprisingly, uncharacteristically bad for Ultimates art.
 
 
Triplets
23:54 / 29.05.05
Yeah, that annual cover put thie shits up me, which is why I posted it Between the Oval Office bit, his grrrrim face at the end of Hank and Bruce's convo about the Ultimate Psychopaths and his treatment of Cap since Vol 1, Ish 1 I've got a bit of a feeling we've got two Fury's. The smooth talking Bond type and a possibly machiavellian and definitely sinister plotter.


* I don't think I've heard Fury refer to Cap as Steve at all and only "Colonel Rogers" once or twice. It's Cap all the time with Fury and that seems to be putting a bit of distance between a post-human like Cap and everyone outside the team.


* And what about the trap in Vol 1 when half of the support troops get nuked on that hidden base? He refuses to let Thor to take a scouting first wave in, then he insists Thor take another look around until Tony pipes in that, yes there's not one fucking soul in the alien base. Then Fury gets everyone to stay put while they scout the place. A really, really shitty commander or Fury stalling for time til the bomb goes off?

A Chitauri impersonator? Hm.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
06:50 / 30.05.05
"Cap" is such a nickname, and honestly reads as retro and out of place. Fury's forcing him into his heroic role, reinforced with "playful banter" to deflect him from any moral consideration of what he does everyday as Captain America. "Cap" is an army-boy nickname, an anachronism that reminds Rogers that he's decades out of date and encourages the "fogey talk" about "dames doing all the hard work" and such. It would appear - for whatever reason - that Fury keeps "Cap" thinking in really black/white-good/evil terms.

Fury's up there with Betty as far as characters with the ability to make me love them one second and hate them the other; he's had quite a few creepy moments but also these debonair counter-moments that make me appreciate him as being quite fun by comparison to psycho-Cap and depressive Hank Pym. He's obviously manipulating everybody, but why? I suppose he COULD be a Chitauri like you say, but I can't quite see a motive for his actions yet. Yet.

Betty on the other hand fluctuates between cold-hearted P.R. Bitch to a woman in love with Bruce but unable to quite deal with him to a woman constantly putting him down for his inferiorities to a woman turned on by him, ah, cannibalizing a Chitauri. I quite enjoy her as a character in part because I can never keep track of what she really feels and what's an act, and how "innocent" she is compared to the darker flavours going on.

Hawkeye's personality seems spotty at best so far, Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver stand around posing in slightly incestuous positions with snide remarks. Black Widow I enjoy because she's clearly has a couple personas of her own to shift between.

Actually, it does seem that while none of the Ultimates have secret identities, per se, most of the good ones do to some extent in a less obvious costume/civilian fashion - Hank Pym's the obvious example, but Natasha's another one.
 
  

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