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Underground > Comic Books >

The Ultimates 2

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10:20 / 30.01.05

Look,

I'm from Japan originally & on behalf of my country, i'd just like to say this; "We are not offended by MacGyver's comment."

I am however not a ninja, which is why i was thrown out of japan by Jakie Chan himself.

For that i am honoured.

10:25 / 30.01.05

Did anyone read the trial of the Hulk issue? Not sure if it's out on stands yet, but there's a full issue preview up somewhere. I thought it was supercool 2000.

16:34 / 30.01.05

>> Might it be worth moving discussion of "all Japanese people are ninjas" to the thread in the Policy devoted to such discussions?

Yes. Please. Let's have no more talk of this here. This thread is about The Ultimates by Mark Millar.

Just my two cents on this.

Very excited to read the trial of the Hulk issue, as I didn't catch it when the whole issue was up for free...

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

00:25 / 31.01.05

Oh, for fuck's fucking sake, haus:

I said:

"He was clearly poking fun at Marvel's (quite racially dodgy) track record of having all Japanese people be Ninjas or Samurai obsessed with insane honor codes. It was funny. It was, in it's own way, quite the opposite of racisim, what with deconstructing the stereotype Marvel comics put out."

Which you later re-iterated thusly:

4) Which is quite useful. It is reasonable to argue that Marvel comics tend to represent all Japanese people as ninja (Yukio, Deathstrike etc) or Samurai (The Silver Samurai, Sunfire etc), or otherwise _Japanese for a reason_ - that is, that superhero comics are orientalising (in the Bio K9 sense). That strikes me as relevant, most obviously in comparison: gypsies, while stereotyped in superhero comics in a number of ways, usually involving either an obsession with historical persecution (Magneto, Doom) or mystic powers (also Doom, Margali Zsardos), are not generally portrayed either as illiterate or smelling of cabbage.

So quite why you decided to take another swipe at me by saying I haven't contributed anything of relevence or value I don't know - are you somehown saying 20% of your own post was without relevance or value?

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

01:05 / 31.01.05

And Stiff, I'm not sure that modelling Luke Cage on a black porn star makes Millar or Hitch a hack. Sure it's a fucking stupid idea, but stupid ideas do not a hack make.

It's the kind of lazy, cynical and "edgy" approach to revamping characters that's been Millar's go-to during the entire Ultimate project. I'd point to his horrible Jarvis as a pretty good example of this.

Hitch's lazy habit of copying stuff out of movies and off TV was something a guy at my local shop pointed out and I agree with him. Seems perfecty hackish to me.

ONLY NICE THINGS

07:24 / 31.01.05

Gosh. 1,2,3 Dudley defends himself against accusations of contributing nothing of value by screaming "fuck". What a surprise.

Dudley, we've been through this. You've got some kind of desperate need for attention that means you pop up in threads and insult somebody in the hope it will make your nob grow, permanently or temporarily. There is a point at which you are just going to have to decide whether you will ever be able to find love when beard hunting comes first, and I don't think this is a useful way to pass the time in the interim.

If you can make a point without tiresome "ME AM ALPHA BEARD HUNTER" bullshit terms like "crybaby", then do so.

See also:

"Oooh, a chance to insult someone who isn't here and not address any of the issues in the topic! Yeah! I likes me some insultin'!"

and

When people ask if Barbelith is dying they're looking at the likes of you. Add something to the thread or shut the fuck up.

ONLY NICE THINGS

07:44 / 31.01.05

Meanwhile, back on topic:

It's the kind of lazy, cynical and "edgy" approach to revamping characters that's been Millar's go-to during the entire Ultimate project. I'd point to his horrible Jarvis as a pretty good example of this.

Hitch's lazy habit of copying stuff out of movies and off TV was something a guy at my local shop pointed out and I agree with him. Seems perfecty hackish to me.

Tricky. Using photo references is a pretty well-established drawing technique - drawing on body references from movies and films seems to be much the same technique. I think I find it slightly more annoying that Millar feels this is the kind of EDGY! thing that should be used in interviews to show how taboo-defying he is, when I can't think of a more natural or credible way for a comic book geek to encounter a large black man than in a porno movie.

Was the guy at your local shop talking about stealing facial features, or poses, or what, Stiff?

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

07:55 / 31.01.05

He was talking about Hitch using film for poses and composition to the point where it's effectively "video swiping". A lot of Hitch work does look like the characters aren't really interacting right to me (the cover to #2 seems awfuly forced), so I find it fairly easy to believe him.

For the record, I like saying "fuck". It's fun. It is fun to say "fuck". The fact that I like to say "fuck" an awful lot does nothing to detract from the bare fact that you insulted me for being irrelevant in the same post that you restated one of my points from far earlier in the thread. However, as an olive branch I will struggle to keep myself to the less offensive "shit" and "ball-bags" for all future posts.

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:37 / 31.01.05

Just.... just try to avoid abusing people for nob-growing purposes before saying anything of use. Really. Note in particular that "crying" is a common attribution to people who are raising concerns about posts being potentially offensive to ethnic or religious minorities. See PsionicNurse and CroMagnet, recently. When you do this high-volume self-fouling about whether people should be allowed to like the Strokes, it's annoying, but when applied to questions of racist language it's profoundly unhelpful.

09:16 / 31.01.05

It's the kind of lazy, cynical and "edgy" approach to revamping characters that's been Millar's go-to during the entire Ultimate project.

Well nnyess, but, what about Millar's dream projects? The characterisation was similarly wonky but would you really want to argue that Millar produced Wanted for a quick buck?

I suppose I'm just suspicious when I hear intelligent people throwing around words like hack. The fact is that very, very few people are in anything simply for the money. People's motivations are complex, and a artist's relationship with his work is often more complicated still, especially when that work is marketable.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

09:53 / 31.01.05

Oh, I don't think Millar's in it for the money - he's in it for the fame, too, hence all the big talk about the "Watchmen" of supervillans for Wanted. I can't speak for Wanted, so it might well have been the Watchmen of supervillans. What I can say of Mark is that he's a master at media relations, and perfectly good at writing fast, nasty action like Wolverine, Youngblood: Bloodsport and 2000ad's Purgatory. He's not much good at writing to spec or comedy, though: witness the almighty turd he crafted John Wagner's beloved Robo-Hunter into, because he only has one kind of story to tell. And it's cynical, edgy and likes to think about rape and sexual assault far too much for its own good. And I doubt Mark cares, because his boombastic copy is propelling him along just nicely. A lot of people are fairly vapid, and a lot of them mistake Mark's sadistic bent for depth and originality. If he landed Superman now probably have Doomsday super-rape him, while Lois makes catty coments about celebs.

Oh shit, you know what he almost is? He's almost to comics as Uwe Boll is to video game movies, except Uwe doesn't have the charisma to carry a devoted fanbase.

Haus: Be fair. The Strokes shitstorm was a over a year ago.

18:21 / 10.02.05

Ultimates Vol. 2 #3 came out tomorrow, or so I hear -- I guess everyone read the full issue when it was online for free at Mile High Comics? I haven't gone to my shop yet to get THE TRIAL OF THE HUUUUULK!!!!

19:27 / 10.02.05

Spoilerish . . .

Nice "wrap" to the Banner/Hulk charactor arch. Now all we'll need is some investigative reporter diving in and trying to reveal the big government cover-up, following a mysterious David Banner from town to town.

Betsy is indeed very fucked up in the head. So's Bruce.

Ultron as the ultimate answering machine.

That Silence of the Lambs telephone call at the end seems to at least lend credit to alot of the Movie inspired story telling this series seems to bank on.

The Natural Way

13:38 / 11.02.05

3? Well, that was good, actually.

Fame and Money, eh, Stiff? Hmm, sounds just as one-dimensional as the money thing.... Boboss was making a broader point, mate, about casually running around, casually attributing base motivations. But surely you knew that? Look! A disingenunox!

The Natural Way

13:40 / 11.02.05

I also like the idea of casually running around.

Jesus! I hate my own posts.

Haus of Mystery

13:49 / 11.02.05

This felt like the most emotionally honest issue so far (for a Mark Bruckheimer comic, this is an achievement. I just dug it, no real complaints. Nice nod to the TV show, a happy ending for Bruce, and Pym got to do something other than recieve a boot from Captain Amerikkka.

14:23 / 11.02.05

I wasn't sure about "I'm too embarrassed in front of all these people."

What is he? 8?

I liked the issue overall, but I feel the need for some mighty action, and quick.

14:33 / 11.02.05

Ultimate Bruce is the ultimate nerd. It made sense. Also: He knows he doesn't deserve it.

15:13 / 11.02.05

Yes, I know it makes sense. I just think the Millar's desire to present Bruce as the Ultimate nerd is a little silly. It's a shortcut to characterization, and a cheap laugh.

But anyway, I don't want to get too caught up in this, as, overall, I think he did a good job with the characters this issue.

Haus of Mystery

15:28 / 11.02.05

Was it not also to demonstrate the fact that this suppose private momnet was still being ultra-monitored, which for me kind of added to the tragedy.

16:45 / 11.02.05

Good point.

10:56 / 14.02.05

surprised a lawyer as canny and japaninja as murdock didn't try the 'he saved the entire world from aliens' defense for real, but whatever. did like this issue, good little thrown-away bits between cap and wasp, tony and the widow. never really felt banner's voice since the first couple of issues, and i think betty's character has been reasonably thought-out but terribly presented, so i wasn't that impressed by their big moment. but the eulogy was nice, banner the nerd and banner the man suddenly came to life for me again there. they're cousins? pym is still the most interesting character, his positives and his problems are suitably ambiguous where everyone else's are quite clear.

so i like each issue, but i'm not sure how the issues tie together - take the 'significant look' we got from fury at the end of the ish before this one. what was implied there, now that we know what it lead straight into? is fury the one 'doing' the sacking of the old guard/emphasising militarisation thing pym and banner were talking about at the time? is fury worried someone beyond himself {loki} is pulling these strings, sidelining even him? is he then the one responsible for letting banner make the getaway? i don't get an 'open for interpretation' feel from this, because millar so often uses slow close-ups and 'significant' pauses to suggest the reader infer the character's thoughts, which tends to heavily imply that millar has a specific or 'correct' thought that he wants us to arrive at.

so 'bad joining up' and 'not-showing your working out' are the ultimates criticisms for this month, but a high mark overall. it looks like we're going to have to wait til issue five for a fight? what happens in issue four?

20:08 / 16.02.05

Hope that they keep Hank as the only one who wanted to save Bruce, because it was :: "right", rather than, "aha, you shall join my secret noncey team later", I think Hank's surprise showed that :: rather than weapon at our beck and call.

Makes hank a bit more like most of us - wanker with (and his variety of this is at the extreme) problems, but not evil, and without feeling. Obviously Millar cannae kill the hulk, but it humanises, the previously most inexcusable beast of the series.

18:46 / 17.02.05

The eulogy was some of the most high-register Millar stuff in, well, ever, I think.

I reread it last night and was all 'this is really good.'

Re: fighting, I think it's everyone v. Thor next ish. I think he should - quite literally - hammer the fucks.

23:10 / 21.02.05

has anyone noticed this colored cover?
The strangest super-team of all makes its Ultimate appearance! With his membership in The Ultimates terminated, Hank Pym makes a bid to become a Defender, joining the storied ranks of such greats as Valkyrie, Nighthawk and Daimon Hellstrom. It's Pym's big chance for redemption. Will he succeed, or only sink lower in the throes of self-pity?

11:07 / 22.02.05

Valkyrie

11:18 / 22.02.05

Couldn't finish the post before you had to run to the bathroom, eh?

13:14 / 22.02.05

the guy on the left looks hella like dude from the porno movie i was watching last night. this comix might be too embarassing to read - i won't be able to get it without imagining meat on the bone and his, um, 'game-face'.

14:06 / 22.02.05

Sax, perhaps he finished before he *reached* the bathroom.

14:25 / 22.02.05

Well he *is* only Twenty One.

13:33 / 23.02.05

Huuhhhnnn

09:54 / 24.02.05

Anyone seen the new Black Widow over on the Newsarama previews?

10:33 / 24.02.05

yeh, she got her own iron suit, that's cool. that stark's a twat though - brain tumour much?

11:11 / 24.02.05

is it okay for a 36 year old man to find that picture of the defenders sexy?

note to self - must get out more.

18:23 / 24.02.05

Natasha is Xorn! Love the suit, very close to 616 Iron Man with bits of Earth X Iron Maiden thrown in. She's BOUND to take the name War Machine, innit. But how long will it last? On a super-team you can't violate niche protection without somebody dying. Golden Rule.

Another talky issue it looks like. I know what Millar's trying to do with Steve by reinforcing the man out of time bit but it's just a bit too hamhanded 'CAP IS THE OLD PURER AMERICA, IPODS AND LUCOZADE ARE THE NEW EVIL AMERICA. THE EMPIRE NEVER ENDED' for my tastes.

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