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The Ultimates 2

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BrianFitzgerald

17:53 / 17.01.05

Is "Hades" an actual NY club? It struck me as being a bit odd that Ultimate Thor's hangout would be named for the Greek lord of the underworld.

23:29 / 17.01.05

I don't believe there is such a club in NYC, I think it's Millar being "clever." There is a club called Hell, I think, that used to be a church, so he might be referencing this.

02:48 / 18.01.05

I don't believe there is such a club in NYC, I think it's Millar being "clever." There is a club called Hell, I think, that used to be a church, so he might be referencing this.

the club in NYC that is in a converted church is Limelight. i believe there may be a pair of clubs in DC called Heaven abd Hell.

Haus of Mystery

10:31 / 18.01.05

Gotta agree with the yawner in that the Club scene was really shit. Remember the nightclub scene in 'Basic instinct'?... The turnaround in Thor was clumsily handled. Why would he be so bothered by the 'degradation' of Cap after he'd behaved like an irrational right-wing asshole just seconds before? Typical millar problems I guess.

12:38 / 18.01.05

Ya see, I didn't read the scene that way.

If some super-powered, authoritarian dick had just smashed his way into my nightclub, insulted everyone there, and brought with him the stench of impending violence, I'd be fucking angry. Not only that, if I were a 7 foot super badass with a god complex and a massive hammer I might, just might, point out that his behaviour wouldn't stand.

Okay, so the turnaround. Well, for me the key was Cap's line regarding Banner's imminent trial and (inevitable) execution, add to that the fact that Thor is basically a decent bloke, and the very real threat that an eggy Cap poses to the spitty, hippy types busy throwing bottles at his head...

Dunno, makes sense to me.

15:33 / 18.01.05

I read that scene as Thor being the resident DEVA of that club. If he's been hanging around "teaching them" his godly ways, it would be more important to demonstrate his ability to NOT get into a fight. Playing the decent guy who's unwilling to resort to violence probably gave him some satisfaction as well. Meanwhile it would make *some* sence to discourage people from acting like "frat boys," especally when the target of their rancor could cripple many of them in the time it would take for Thor to subdue him.

10:50 / 20.01.05

They've got issue #3 up at Mile High Comics. The Trial of the Incredible Hulk.

Not too bad at all. Those wanting Betty to show more depth get their wish.

11:55 / 20.01.05

This book is getting better issue by issue.

I couldn't help but read it. Three weeks is far too long a time.

SPOILERSSSSSSSS DOWN LOOK DOWN IF YOU DIDNT READ THE PREVIEW...

What's not to love? A great Thor scene. Finally a poignant Betty/Bruce moment that I'd been wanting to read. And nice eulogy too. I've never been a fan of Hitch's art but this is the first time I've been genuinely impressed. A bit predictable but I've forgiven Millar the tardiness of Volume 1.

Spyder Todd 2008

15:57 / 20.01.05

Nooooooo!!!!
They took down all but the first 4 pages! God damnit!!!!!!!!

16:18 / 20.01.05

Haha. I read it. And it's better than I was imagining. But now it feels like I have to wait two months to read anything new.

17:31 / 20.01.05

That's 'cause you do.

18:15 / 20.01.05

Oh yeah.

12:54 / 21.01.05

It's TWO MONTHS til the next one!?? Why? I thought they were on schedule this time??

I also gotta say, I like the idea that Brian Braddock's Dad is his mentor or boss or whatever. Interesting twist on the superhero genre that I don't think I've ever seen - the father of the superhero being the guiding force/mentor/teacher, a la Batman Beyond, Terry McGuiness, except here, the father is not and never was a superhero, presumably.

12:58 / 21.01.05

Look up!

Apparently issue 3 was on the web in it's entirety. Chad read it. Chad now has to wait 2 months for new material.

13:16 / 21.01.05

it's no different to normal capbrit's origin, which was all dad (and merlin)'s project. think originally dad was dead before brian put the suit on though. hope they have he and psylocke having a brother-sisiter superteam rather than packing her off to xaviers too soon.

13:50 / 21.01.05

Yeah, Betsy Braddock is a prime candidate for ultimization. I expect to see her attched to the euro project in some capacity. She was a psychic spy in MU continuity, after all.

14:11 / 21.01.05

well she's appeared already in ult x-men, they got her from english rose to japanese ninja-spy sort in about two appearances. pretty good going really.

14:18 / 21.01.05

I thought Ultimate Betsy died though? After being the host for Legion or something...

14:19 / 21.01.05

I'm not sure we should get too carried away with what has gone before. No doubt Ultimates' Betsy will be tailored to suit the Ultimates' comic.

14:33 / 21.01.05

I thought Ultimate Betsy died though? After being the host for Legion or something...

if i recall correctly, her body died but her psyche moved to the body of a comatose and brain-dead Japanese girl, whose body she now inhabits.

14:36 / 21.01.05

that's the one. whether that actually makes her a ninja or not i don't know.

Haus of Mystery

14:43 / 21.01.05

Course it does dumbo. All japanese people are Ninjas.

14:47 / 21.01.05

ooo, risky...

16:33 / 21.01.05

"All japanese people are Ninjas."

um didn't we have a (much too)long conversation about this sort of thing here as a result of a similar comment in another marvel thread?

c'mon people!!! let's learn from history

16:45 / 21.01.05

um, I think he was totally kidding.

17:11 / 21.01.05

I'm sure he was kidding... I think the Gypse bit was intended as humor as well... the point still remains, no?

17:35 / 21.01.05

Um, didn't we also agree that poster history should be taken into account? The fic suits discussed in the linked thread had done little to suggest that they didn't in fact hold the views expressed, or similar views.

MacGyver, on the other hand, has been posting here for years, often employs irony and isn't prone to making racist statements, jokes, etc...

18:03 / 21.01.05

Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaay . . .

I stand corrected.

18:07 / 21.01.05

waitaminute . . .

are you suggesting that the All Japanese people are Ninjas wasn't a racist Joke?

18:45 / 21.01.05

Tricks, I'm really not trying to get into a fight here, it's just that the humour in the above statement comes from the fact that it is totally absurd. It's not funny unless we know that their are *no* ninjas in japan. Effectively, it's self undermining.

Now, on the question of context. It's important to bear in mind that the "joke" could be read as a comment on the representation of Japanese characters in superhero comics. That Betsy, now housed in a Japanese body, must have special Ninja powers.

The thing is, knowing what I know of MacGyver - that he doesn't make racist statements, that he likes to employ sarcasm and irony to rhetorical affect - the above reading looks likely. So, instead of a racist joke we potentially end up with a humourous comment on comic-book racism.

19:46 / 21.01.05

exactly - many comedians make jokes making fun of racism. Are they racist because they poke fun at stereotypes?

20:02 / 21.01.05

Well BOSS, I'm not trying to fight either... However having observed the previously linked incidents, I think the difference it far too fine.

Sure I get the humor, but that still doesn't convince me that it's any "better" than the humor used in the Gypsy comments.

The context you're speaking of is fair but considering the lack of "%" signifiers it could still be read at face value. What about those reading this that are Not aware of MacGyver's posting style?

Or let's look at the premis that the humor is "that the humour in the above statement comes from the fact that it is totally absurd. It's not funny unless we know that their are *no* ninjas in japan." How is it that you know this for a fact? Seems to me that it still comes back to humor based on the common denominator/ignorance.
what if we extrapolated this humor out?
All Chinese know Kung Fu
All Russians are communists
All Cuban American wash ashore
All Indians are _________?
All Africans are ________?
All Mexicans are ________?
All Gypsies are _________?
and so on.

Now, personally I'm not offended, nor was I offended by the Gypsie comments but I still think "we" could collectively learn from those (these) incidents; in effect "know better."

There's also an implicitly different social contract between comedians & audience than there is between members of this board. In that light, while I can "appriecate" the humor that doesn't mean it shouldn't be pointed out.

What say I said "Being Japanese I'm offended?"

or how about "As I am a Ninja and NOT Japanese I'm offended?"

as Gumbitch!!!11!! said "ooo, risky..."
That sort of humor IS risky & rightfully so. I don't really want to rot this thread any further with this but my point still stands.... I think.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

20:08 / 21.01.05

Ulty Betsy was shaped by millar, so I guess she'll be the same if she shows up in this.

I think her new body turned out younger than the old, which is kinda fucked up.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

20:12 / 21.01.05

Oh god, don't be such a crybaby. He was clearly poking fun at Marvel's (quite racially dodgy) track record of having all Japanese people be Ninjas or Samurai obsessed with insane honor codes. It was funny. It was, in it's own way, quite the opposite of racisim, what with deconstructing the stereotype Marvel comics put out.

21:02 / 21.01.05

have you read the previously linked threads 1,2,3?

It's not about being a crybaby, it's about learning from previous experience. I GOT the joke; didn't mean it was any funnier.

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