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The Ultimates 2

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11:50 / 26.05.07

I think he'll be able to make that up with original art sales, however.
Really? I went over there and was kind of shocked how cheap superstar original comic art is. Most pages are in the really affordable $200-$400 range (I'm assuming the fans that want Hitch art are the comic regulars who probably spend about $200 a month on comics and tpbs anyways). The splash pages are in the thousand dollar range which is kind of getting up there, so I guess the more splash pages and eight page foldouts (that big foldout's going for $22,000) he puts in the better his income.

23:19 / 26.05.07

>>>that big foldout's going for $22,000) <<<

Jesus Christ! See? That's what I mean. If he sells that it's probably more than I've ever made on all my art sales combined.

10:03 / 27.05.07

And there's almost certainly a whole gaggle of pillocks lining up to buy it.

The!

Very!

Fuck!

17:17 / 28.05.07

The ultimates was a comic I enjoyed immensely - those first six issues are still fucking great

I went back and reread the first trade, and remembered that at one point UltiCap was an actual person with feelings and not just a right wing asshole (yes, he kicks Bruce Banner in the head, but if I was standing in the middle of a city that Bruce just tore a big hole in killing hundreds of people, after rehulking out of pure ego, I'd kick him in the head too), that the monstrousness of Hank Pym and Bruce Banner's choices was in contrast to Tony, Jan, Thor, and Steve being basically decent, flawed, heroic people. That at one point it was a good book.

10:48 / 04.07.07

I hadn't really noticed before now, but there's quite a few inappropriate colloquialisms Millar uses in this both volumes, isn't there? 'Vodka and orange' and 'the Queen and the President of the United States' (where Americans would have a screwdriver and understand that you have to put 'of England' after one of those people, but there's only one country that has a president, at that's the United States) being two big examples, but there are, well, an interesting number of them.

I'm not sure if it's a testament to the series' otherwise quality presentation that I missed them the first go round, or that they didn't stick out like the average American comic with Australian characters going on with 'Crikey' and dingo-everything because my standards are falling.

Did this hold anybody up, or pull them out of the story, while the thing was being serialised, or did everyone have a similar filtering going on?

And how was Captain Britain so much more interesting and charismatic in his seven panels of appearance than in the past thirty years of 616 continuity? The slimmer look, the (same) deep-featured face and dimply cheeks (of virtually all Hitch's characters), and that casually humorous, good-natured so not like the Ultimates persona.

11:41 / 04.07.07

(I'm quite a fan of 616 Captain Britain)

yawn - thing's buddy

13:08 / 04.07.07

i was a fan of the ultimates for a while - yeah the first six issues - and stuck with it, much in the same way I did with planetary, for the art and for. . . .its potential.

sadly both titles nosedived, scriptwise and in the case of the ultis, art wise too.

reckon grant morrison wrote those first six issues anyway -s'got that early zenith feel eh? nazis and superheroes, maximan being cap america etc.

series two was especially shite. and oh it could have been so much better. thor versus loki was squandered; cap america development abandoned; iron man just about remained interesting; there was one issue with the crappy ultimate reject team which held my attention but no, not enough all in.

13:28 / 04.07.07

thor versus loki was squandered

You think so? I pretty much always knew it would come down to "hammer time", it was just a matter of seeing how Thor would break out of the altered reality Loki had placed him in (which definitely could have been a little better done than, Odin steps in).

I enjoyed Loki going Widescreen Ragnarok at the end there, it's something of a staple with the character in 616 that he tries to be all sneaky and subtle, gets foiled, and then goes godshit on everyone.

cap america development abandoned

Well, the shit hits the wall when the invasion happens. After that everyone's just fighting to stay alive. But right up until the invasion they're pushing the fact that Cap's out of step with the world. I would have liked them to find some balance between "this is not my America" and "cop that Abdul!", at times Ultimate Cap comes across as genuinely unbalanced.

Although I'd quite like a retcon that, when he's in fight-mode, his implants make him an uber-patriotic cockend fanatic who'll fight to the death for the "American Dream".

19:40 / 04.07.07

I'm quite a fan of 616 Captain Britain

Boboss, would it help if I reduced that to 'last ten years'? Because I did sort of like him under Davis and Ellis at times, and way back when he was first around. It's just years of him being the lesser part of Excal.

19:47 / 04.07.07

That would help a lot and generate strong agreement.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

19:58 / 04.07.07

I actually like both versions of Braddock, particularly under Davis's run on Excalibur - he retained some of the petty, colonial, entitled elements while still being genuinely heroic and effective. Hm...Alan Davis did do some good stuff with Excalibur, as a writer. I wonder what he lost along the way? I don't know. I like Braddock as a hero who sort of fails when measured against his obvious counterpart, Captain America, and worked with his Excal friends even though he could be an ass at times. He walked around with a lot of stress sitting on his shoulders at the time.

But...the Ultimate version is also appealing for the simple reason that he's the reverse of the 616 Cap, and is so counter to the Ultimates.

01:12 / 11.07.07

I just re-read this -- is 'rumpy-pumpy' (or 'rumpy-bumpy', I don't remember) REALLY an actual cheeky British phrase?

Also, what's the significance of the 'fake doctors' in the dream sequence calling Loki "Mr. Goleman"? I thought I knew a reasonable bit about Norse mythology, but "Goleman" draws a blank for me.

Yeah, Ultimate Black Widow is really dead, huh.... OR IS SHE (INSERT DRAMATIC MUSIC)???

01:42 / 11.07.07

It's 'rumpy-pumpy', and yes, I'm afraid it is.

I wish I could tell you 'rumpy-pumpy' is something us Brits don't demand of each other at the end of an evening once pissed (Tony, I think, is meant to be something of an anglophile, hence the vodka and orange/screwdriver confusion above) or that it's a board game, at least, but in all good conscience, I can't.

10:45 / 11.07.07

Yeah, Ultimate Black Widow is really dead, huh.... OR IS SHE (INSERT DRAMATIC MUSIC)???

I can easily see them bringing her back after a little black-ops SHIELD brain surgery. Or just re-loading with an All-New All-Different Black Widow.

It's possible we'll see the Ultimates being brought into line with the rest of the Ulti-verse when it relaunches.

15:07 / 12.07.07

I think I recall seeing a Joe Maduiera sketch of Ultimate Black Widow for the likely-to-be-very-disappointing ULTIMATES 3 (because it's being) written by Jeph Loeb. So it looks like she'll come back in some form...

Haus of Mystery

15:20 / 12.07.07

Isn't Ed McGuiness also doing art chores? I think they're taking turns in order to maintain a more respectable publishing schedule. Which, on one hand, is a good thing as the wait between Hitch issues was ludicrous. On the other hand, I won't be reading it so it's a bit of a moot point for me.

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

15:24 / 12.07.07

The lack of character development - that's what it was bothering me, wasn't it?

Captain America is feeling more and more alienated from the world, maybe he'll have some realization! Nope, just a big fight.

Thor is having his faith tested, and everyone else's faith in him tested! Surely something will have to change in his relationships! Nope, just a big fight.

Hank Pym is at the lowest place in his life! Surely there will be some kind of lesson learned? Will things turn around? Naw, have him show up in the background of a couple of scenes and remain a loser.

Okay, Bruce then! He's had some kind of breakthrough, now he's more in touch with the Hulk and etc! Great...only it all happened off screen and is never explained.

Fuck you big stupid fight. It's like the third matrix movie..."but what about all those philosophical questions from the last movie?" "never mind, that guy just likes to talk. go hit stuff!"

18:34 / 12.07.07

Isn't Ed McGuiness also doing art chores? I think they're taking turns in order to maintain a more respectable publishing schedule.

No, apparently Madureira is doing Ultimates 3 and McGuinness 4, though I read some rumour 4 was off somewhere. I like McGuinness and quite throughly wish he wouldn't work with the worst writer in mainstream comics, c. now, Jeph Loeb.

Essential Dazzler

19:47 / 12.07.07

The last I heard Loeb was writing both volumes at the same time, so McGuniness can work at the same time as Madureira. It's an intersting way of working, particularly as Mad is the one I've heard of being late a lot. Surely McGuiness should be going first if he's faster?

00:03 / 13.07.07

'Loeb' and 'an interesting way of working' don't belong in the same paragraph surely? At least unless there's a 'does not have' in there somewhere?

07:21 / 13.07.07

Fuck you big stupid fight. It's like the third matrix movie..."but what about all those philosophical questions from the last movie?" "never mind, that guy just likes to talk. go hit stuff!"

Surely "big stupid fight" is part of the whole Ultimates = Avengers as Action Movie deal? To be honest there wasn't a whole lot of philosophy in the first two story arcs. It's like Nextwave but without the irony.

The utterly unexplained Hulk stuff links in with the atrociously delayed (and atrocious) Ulti Wolverine vrs Hulk. But seeing as the third part of that is never coming out Hulk's appearance in Washington is completely out of left field.

07:22 / 13.07.07

'Loeb' and 'an interesting way of working' don't belong in the same paragraph surely? At least unless there's a 'does not have' in there somewhere?

At least with Loeb there's a chance we won't have to wait two years to read 6 comics.

Haus of Mystery

09:40 / 13.07.07

No, we can get a shit comic every month.

10:33 / 13.07.07

I think I'll give him a chance, his stuff doesn't aggravate me the way it does some folks. He may not have quite the A Game that Millar can bring, but I find him a consistantly enjoyable writer.

That said I am evil, so...y'know.

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

12:20 / 13.07.07

The utterly unexplained Hulk stuff links in with the atrociously delayed (and atrocious) Ulti Wolverine vrs Hulk. But seeing as the third part of that is never coming out Hulk's appearance in Washington is completely out of left field.

For that matter was there any explanation, anywhere, of why the Hulk is still alive? Wouldn't the other Ultimates be curious about that?

And if you are officially executed on national TV and then somehow live without anyone noticing and then escape and heal and come back with fewer psychoses and help save the nation for the 2nd or 3rd time - do they just grant you a pardon for the 853 people you ate? Is this common knowledge and therefore assumed we don't need to read about it?

Maybe it's in that last Ultimates Annual thing I never read? Or will be explained in the 3rd run...

12:29 / 13.07.07

For that matter was there any explanation, anywhere, of why the Hulk is still alive? Wouldn't the other Ultimates be curious about that?

The annual that you haven't read (presumably the one about the "reservist Avengers" such as the Rocketmen, etc) has a mention of SHIELD agents investigating his possible survival. One would presume Nick doesn't tell the other Ultimates because he'd rather use them to stomp all over Iran.

Seconds before Banner's execution in Ultimates though we see him wake up with his eyes going bright green (the suggestion later being that Pym intentionally under-dosed him so he'd have a chance to escape). Ult WvH expands on this and shows Hulk leaping well clear of the nuke blast. Banner goes from place to place (outside of the US) and occasionally the Hulk gets out but is apparently canny enough not to stick around and wait for the Ultimates/ESI to show up.

He eventually winds up in Tibet where he apparently finds inner balance/battles Wolverine (sent by Fury to kill him).

12:32 / 13.07.07

And if you are officially executed on national TV and then somehow live without anyone noticing and then escape and heal and come back with fewer psychoses and help save the nation for the 2nd or 3rd time - do they just grant you a pardon for the 853 people you ate? Is this common knowledge and therefore assumed we don't need to read about it?

Whoops, missed this one.

Hulk is seen in the aftermath of the battle with Loki, but nothing more is said of him after that. So there's currently no evidence that he's been pardoned. It's just as possible he reverted to Banner and slipped away through the wreckage.

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

19:31 / 13.07.07

wait, I thought Banner was there in the end talking to Hank Pym who is now being held in the super cage by SHIELD? Some joke about how We're All Going to Do Some Time in Here?

Maybe I need to go read it again, it's possible neither of those people were who I assumed they were.

22:10 / 13.07.07

Some joke about how We're All Going to Do Some Time in Here?

It can't just be me wanting The Odd Couple set in Triskelitraz; featuring Banner, Pym and the down low.

09:18 / 14.07.07

I thought Banner was there in the end talking to Hank Pym who is now being held in the super cage by SHIELD?

Nah, Hank was in the cage speaking with Jan.

02:03 / 15.07.07

Was it really clear whether Hank Pym was truly a traitor or whether he really was just being a double-agent? (If he wasn't a traitor and was truly being a hero, redeeming himself and all that, why did they throw him in the brig? Or did they have to throw him in the brig til they sorted out whether his story held water or not...?)

04:03 / 15.07.07

The latter, possibly?

Either way, it's one of the many plot threads Mark's been kind enough to leave for Geoff to follow up, or not, in the next issue.

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