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The Ultimates 2

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13:22 / 23.09.04

My first guess was right. I thought my interest in the book would come back in full force when it was announced and it did.
This is a great book, and I bet it'lll be even better coming out regularly.

I guess besides that new Cap all is well.

18:27 / 27.09.04

Millar says this volume will go back to the spirit of the first 5 issues of Ultimates, focusing more on character and self-contained 1- and 2-issue story arcs.

Here's hoping it's quality.

17:21 / 05.10.04

from an interview on Newsarama:

>> Newsarama/Alan David Doane: AThere is a perception on many message boards that rape and jokes about rape are a frequent element of your comics. Is it true or false, and what is the reason for this perception?

MM: Wanted, Chosen and The Authority all had rape references, sure, and The Unfunnies had child molestation so I think it's fair to say that it's cropped up a few times. But so what? Each and every one of those comics had fifty murders to every rape and nobody ever mentions them, despite the fact that rape and sexual assault is a far more common crime than murder. That really strikes me as odd. I think American audiences are quite interesting in that they can handle almost any amount of violence, but the moment the violence becomes sexual violence it immediately becomes an issue. Europeans don't really think about this stuff as much.

Still, I've written plenty of, er, non-rape books too like Superman: Red Son, JLA, Superman Adventures, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Paradise Lost, The Ultimates, Ultimate X-Men and Sonic The Hedgehog. Actually, I did have Tails fuck Sonic up the arse in one issue of that, but it was definitely consensual.

20:22 / 05.10.04

err... maybe I'll pick it up in trades... sort of burntout on those charactors

15:01 / 15.11.04

Wow - Millar is taking an anti-Iraq war stance in Vol. 2 of The Ultimates, as he has the Ult's invade Iraq under Ultimate Universe President Bush. And it's getting major media coverage, and Millar's anti-war stance has inspired thousands of pro-war, pro-Bush comic fans to sign a petition opposing Millar's stance:

http://www.sundayherald.com/46071

15:03 / 15.11.04

The article erroneously says Millar "created the world’s first gay comic book stars"... I guess they think he created Apollo and Mid-Niter?

But this is interesting stuff (the article and Millar's take on the Iraq war in the Ultimates, that is)...

First issue of Vol. 2 out this Wed., I believe.

15:10 / 15.11.04

>> Mark Millar (on his message board at Millarworld, on someone asking him in what context Ultimate Daredevil will appear in Ultimates Vol. 2): I think they took that from the solicits. DD appears as a brief cameo from Matt, but not actually in costume. Likewise, the X-Men is just a cameo. I have eight great characters here so I don't want to bog them down with guest stars. EU guys and The Defenders all just happen naturally as the series progresses.

17:29 / 01.12.04

should be out next week! More Ultimates fun!

22:01 / 01.12.04

Out today, on the West Coast of the States of Unite-a-tude.

It's in my hands, anyway. Haven't read it. Something about terrorists on Bakalakadaka street, from the look of it...

Jake, Colossus of Clout

04:07 / 02.12.04

It's not like Apollo and Midnighter were the first gay superheroes, anyway. Remember Northstar?

09:11 / 02.12.04

"I... AM... GAY!"

yawn - thing's buddy

10:30 / 02.12.04

wot about all the super-homos in New Statesman? (UK crisis 1988)

but to be honest, for a sunday herald reader and for the type of news report it is, "the first to create a homo-hero" riff is enough detail.

14:22 / 02.12.04

it's not bad. basically, it goes something like this:

Cap goes into Iraq to rescue hostages being held by insurgents and succeeds. this is seen by many as a violation of American promises to refrain from deploying Persons of Mass Destruction outside of the US. a martini-swilling Tony Stark goes on Larry King to refute the accusation and defend Cap's mission as a humanitarian intervention, but Thor (probably correctly) claims it is a wedge designed to legitimize further imperialist intervention in Iraq, and he quits the Ultimates.

he ends up in a restaurant talking to Ultimate Volstagg, who claims to be carrying a message from Thor's father (Ultimate Odin, presumably) warning him to stay the fuck away from the Ultimates and to beware the retribution of (Ultimate) Loki, who's recently escaped imprisonment. however, from the perspective of the other diners, Thor is having a conversation with an empty chair.

Cap, meanwhile, is getting fed up with the media's scandal-crazed intrusions into his relationship with the Wasp, who he's been banging. he also denounces the decadence of Hollywood and sexual promiscuity in American culture, and finally beats up some black guys. no, seriously. they were trying to mug them, but it still reads like a crazy right-wing thing.

anyway, Hank Pym goes to visit Banner in his cell in the Triskelion, and debuts his new persona as Ant-Man, which he's designed to make a play for rejoining the Ultimates. Pym and Banner discuss plans for future projects they are planning, including Ultimate Ultron.

finally, a bunch of e-mails get sent out to the media documenting outing the Hulk as the alter-ego of Bruce Banner, and revealing not only that the Hulk (who is responsible for hundreds of civilian deaths and massive property damage) is a SHIELD project gone awry, and that Banner is now living comfortably at the Triskelion, but also that the Ultimates and SHIELD all knew the truth and engaged in a massive cover-up. a bunch of reporters question Cap and Wasp about why they lied to the American public.

it's a really good set-up, overall.

Haus of Mystery

15:26 / 02.12.04

Mebbe a spoiler warning diz!?

I liked it. if it comes out regularly I'll like it a lot more. Plot-wise it's setting up some interesting stuff - is Thor gonna be friend or foe? Thank fuck Pym's back, if only to offset Captain Reactionary. Millar's scripting can grate and please in equal amounts, but it's the best thing he's writing, so...
Hitch's art is nice and solid - breathtaking Triskellion shots.

Pleasantly surprised.

17:45 / 02.12.04

I really liked this, quite a bit. Millar is starting to seem like a young, hungry, interesting writer again, between this and his recent Spider-Man stories, which I think have been better than his writing, say, 6 months ago.

Very cool developments here - although why did we need to see Cap beat up some street punks trying to mug him and Jan? The whole 'oh, look, muggers try to mug our heroes, not knowing that they're superheroes' thing has been done SOOO many times before. That was the only note that rung sour to me in this otherwise first-rate issue.

Haus of Mystery

19:19 / 02.12.04

Was the cutaway to the peace van just a visual gag? Or some strange foreshadowing?

20:21 / 02.12.04

I wondered the same thing - I think it was a weird gag that emphasized the various eras that Cap has missed, juxtaposed with the violence of the scene. Like I said, this was Millar's only weak scene. A peace van where violence is happening - get it guys? Hyuk!

yawn - thing's buddy

08:49 / 03.12.04

yeah.

when it works, it works.

i do like millar's take on thor.

i do really hate captain america.

Haus of Mystery

09:30 / 03.12.04

Me too. Although, having read some classic Kirby/Steranko Cap stuff from the late 60's, Millar's update rings somewhat true.

12:30 / 03.12.04

I must add my voice to the I-like-it gang, let's just hope Hitch can work to schedule.

Who thinks Loki's gonna turn up in the guise of a psychiatrist?

Haus of Mystery

14:16 / 03.12.04

Could be a money-shot. I think Thor's becoming my top character, and his inclusion in the team slightly allays my concerns over the book's politics. Having said that he may become Ultimate Evil Hippy, so I'll wait and see.

17:51 / 05.12.04

I'm not so crazy about Ult. Cap reverting to a 1940s style headpiece (that doesn't cover the neck and jaw). No biggie though...just a comic fan's nitpick. But I wonder what the reasoning was behind this costume change...?

The other tweaks to the costumes (seen only in the cover) are terrific. And I love the idea of Giant-Man becoming Ant-Man to hide his ID in the Ultimate universe (and the idea of Hank getting a second chance, even though he was a toal asshole).

18:09 / 05.12.04

The mugging scene is starting to make more sense to me. They could have easily subdued the muggers with barely a punch, but instead it became the superpowered beating up on normal humans for some quick "justice," and apparently some laughs. Captain America missed an entire period of American history where a portion of the population learned that violence isn't always a necessity. The entire "hah, muggers are scum -- they deserve what they get" mentality is ugly.

rabideyemovement

02:30 / 06.12.04

Muggers ARE scum... and deserve what they get.

I really hope to see Ultimate Ultron soon...

10:33 / 06.12.04

I think Ultimate Ultron is going to turn out to be Ultimate Vision. Or, at least they'll be linked together.

Doesn't Banner and Pym making a robot called Ultron sound like kids making up their own Transformer? Behold Ultimate Chrono Magnus!

Oh yeah, Ant-Man back in the hizouse! I like how Millar's reimagining Pym's alternate identities as these bullshit second chances Pym keeps using to get back into the fold.

Can't wait for the inevitable Ant-Man/Captain America pairing. Pym Smash!

Thor Vote: Nutcase or Viking Hardcase?

10:48 / 06.12.04

Also:

"You can't just keep dropping by like this, Clarice"

hee!

11:58 / 06.12.04

Thor Vote: Nutcase or Viking Hardcase?

happily unresolved is my guess. my guess is that Thor will end up fighting "Loki," who, like "Volstagg," will be visible only to him. "Loki's actions" may be seen to have an ambiguous relationship to strange events in the real world, so it will be unclear as to whether Thor is fighting an evil force only he can fight, or whether he is throwing a delusional mythological framework over mundane events.

13:41 / 06.12.04

>> Muggers ARE scum... and deserve what they get.

I kind of agree. But I think the message here was that Cap went a little overboard on their sorry asses. I don't find myself disliking Ultimate Cap, though, even though many have commented they don't like him, he seems too right-wing, seems like a dick, etc. Despite his occasional temper and hard-ass nature, he doesn't seem like an immoral Republican to me at this point.

13:51 / 06.12.04

Was it a typo or an bad accent joke when Cap says "Don't even thing about it, buster" in the fight scene with the Iraqi insurgents? I'm guessing a typo.

14:09 / 06.12.04

can i kind of disagree? and say thanks for drawing our attention to that potentially explosive thing/think detail? i thing it'll be VERY important over in UltFF
when they inevitably come up against the Mad Thinger.

people who -fuck get this it's deep- use violence to extract wealth from those weaker, be they muggers or soldiers, perhaps there's little moral difference? do we notice the irony there yet? men who hate their country for growing up without them? super-patriots! women who betray their species and husband for a comfy bed chez military-industrial complex? WASPS! (used to think it was crap wasp was no longer a WASP. now we see she's more WASP than ever.)

captain america, like fury and the rest of the superfascists, all support the detention without trial of all non-registered mutants at camp x-factor in cuba. do we still like him? have we still not been reading the book very well? <<<>>>>

good writing (than he usually manages), good art, good issue.

14:43 / 06.12.04

Jan's betraying her husband? Her abusive wacked out husband who she's now separated from? Golly, I see now why Jan is evil. Thanks for showing me the light. You're sounding kind of conservative yourself there by implying anyone to has an affair even when their spouse beats them and treats them horribly is morally repungant.She's cheating on a perfectly good wonderful husband, even though he beat her and was a bigger ass than Cap.

Is he a WASP (nice one there) without much of a social conscience, though, about her team's larger impact in the world? Yes.

And I would say that while I feel someone who holds a person up at gunpoint, unprovoked, threatening to hurt them, even kill them, and take their belongings deserves to what they get, that's a slightly different scenario than US imperialsm and Bush's lies all across the globe. Yes, I know about the cycle of poverty and all that, but there is still some personal responsibility there. Yes, even liberal democrats like myself believe in some personal reponsibility.

(however, this thread is about comics, I feel like I don't want to turn this into a political discussion, there are other places for that here on Barbelith)

I agree with you on the larger political issues of the book, but I prefer to judge the characters based on the actual text rather than juxtaposing all the real-world Bush stuff on top of it. I know Millar is seriously interposing both, and I agree that the Ultimates are tainted and becoming puppets of the neocon government, but I don't see Cap as the Dick Cheney figure or even George Bush figure in this book yet, based on what we've read and seen in the 14 issues or whatever thus far.

All Cap has done in this book that's 'right-wing' or otherwise disagreeable is kick a man when he's down (albeit a man whose petty jealousies and issues resulted in 800 people dead and inestimable property damage) and beat up a wife abuser. And he rescued some hostages. Cap has also shown that he thinks in slightly more black and white terms since he's a product of his time. But he's not been shown to be some horrible asshole guy every 5 minutes. It's not Ult. Cap that sent the US to war in Iraq. Not even in the comic. Think about it. We never hear what Cap thinks about the whole situation with the war.

14:54 / 06.12.04

>> i thing it'll be VERY important over in UltFF
when they inevitably come up against the Mad Thinger.

Good one

15:16 / 06.12.04

Jan's betraying her husband? Her abusive wacked out husband who she's now separated from? Golly, I see now why Jan is evil. Thanks for showing me the light. You're sounding kind of conservative yourself there by implying anyone to has an affair even when their spouse beats them and treats them horribly is morally repungant, even though he beat her and was a bigger ass than Cap.

people really didn't read the wasp/pym scrap very fairly. their relationship had been written quite closely, the fight was an instance of rough-play that got out of hand. america, sorry captain america, failed to realise this complexity and went in with fists to sort it out. that's a GREAT way to deal with an intricate situation, and any correspondence it may have to american attitudes to dealing with different cultures....oh yes, just ignore it.

pym is still around, still on the teanm, still very close to wasp's affections (ultimate 6). nice empathy you have for pym's bipolar disorder too ('wacked out' eh? liberal! democrat! say em loud!)

let's stick with the yellow stripey buggers: do you have no pity for the bee that dies after it's stung you, out of its own fear and ignorance? no, because all muggers are scum. fine.

All Cap has done in this book that's 'right-wing' or otherwise disagreeable

there's the hulk cover up bit. that was in the issue. that aside, i can't think of anything that cap's done that hasn't offended my delicate lefty sensibilities a bit, but heu are rather delicate.

now on to what he hasn't done:
is no-one interested in how cap's backyard is still such a shithole nigh-on two years after he's been thawed? not only does it not chime with the vision of post-giuliani ny that the world's been sold the past years (maybe it's a myth?) it seems like the big blonde's been wasting his weekends. maybe america's moral heart just feels better about itself when everything it can see is going to shit.
no, couldn't be that.

Think about it. We never hear what Cap thinks about the whole situation with the war.

he jumped six-hundred feet out of a plane. he probably has deep moral reservations about the whole thing, killing men defending their right to decide how their country's run. yup.

sorry wolfie, i know you're a decent sort, but captain america isn't, and nor is the side of america (the important side) that he represents.

15:29 / 06.12.04

I have to say, well-argued, Gambit! Seriously.

But of course, the whole where does a violent streak and acts that you need to take responsibility for end and where does a bipolar condition begin? Always an interesting gray area...

And yes, the cover-up of the Hulk is definitely a no-no. But if we excuse someone because they have a bipolar condition, shouldn't we have pity on poor, insecure, psychologically troubled Bruce Banner, who just wanted to be loved and just wanted some attention...?

It is cool, though, how Millar is raising all these political issues and getting readers to look at such grey areas.

Part of me wants to believe that Ult. Cap, like regular Cap, still has a conscience and is just about saving lives and trying to do what's right for his country, but Ult. Cap is a little more prone to accept what the gov't tells him is best at this point because he's only recently popped out of antifreeze. Millar did say in one interview "Cap will do what the gov't tells him...at this point." Maybe a crisis of conscience is coming up for our Ultimate Steve Rogers...

15:35 / 06.12.04

i just want to drop in a

because that post was well snidey. soz.

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