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The Ultimates 2

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13:53 / 12.01.05

Millar channeling "Frank" Miller, perhaps?

16:45 / 12.01.05

Duh, sorry, that was so pathetically obvious that I didn't think of it.

I will submit to having food thrown at me and whatever jokes you like for this. Even I'm amazed I didn't get that. I guess I just figured it would be someone very much other than ol' film noir Frankie.

17:05 / 12.01.05

And yes, Millar said that he re-read the famous Claremont/Miller Wolverine mini to prepare for writing his Wolverine arc.

19:23 / 12.01.05

>>> think he means Frank MillER, because his last name looks like MillAR, even though they are pronounced differently.<<<

Um, I don't think they are...I'm pretty sure they sound the same.

19:50 / 12.01.05

Yeah, Millar has said in interviews that it's pronounced "Miller." Even though for years I thought of him as Mill-AR and it's just more fun to call him that.

19:55 / 12.01.05

Bossboy, the others are Captain Spain and either Captain France or Captain Italy (can't remember).

20:35 / 12.01.05

Captains Britain, Italy, and Spain?

Fucking AWESOME.

00:55 / 13.01.05

Really?

Captain France'd be a good day for jingoistic soundbites.

Although I think we can all have a bit.

Millar/er is pronounced the same way by me. I think there is only one pronunciation of the name.

07:43 / 13.01.05

...

ok, let's go:

captain sweden

captain the netherlands (nul points)

captain luxembourg

brigadier belgium

lieutenant (leftenant) wales

sergeant cornwall

i'll consider sending a few early issues of rob liefeld's brigade to anyone who gives this joke the kicking-to-death it deserves.

(VERY looking forward to this now. just when you never want to get another millar comic again...)

08:30 / 13.01.05

I used to live with a guy called Ari Millar.

His friends all pronounced his name Airy Meh-Lah.
It was very, very annoying.

Captain Spain, WTF? Bollocks to Captain Spain. I want to see Millar dredge up long-forgotten heroes for his European Super Soldier programme.

11:06 / 13.01.05

This is shaping up to be a very entertaining and well done comic. The bit with Thor at the rave with Captain America showing up was particularly interesting. Hats off to Millar, he's putting out of good work fairly regularly now.

13:07 / 13.01.05

Though coloured in underwater hues, I think the Captain Britain assists were in fact Capitaine Le France in red, white, and blue arrow down designs, and Capitano Italia in red, white, and green. Though I'd like some uknown ye olde worlde characters to join the Ultimate-verse's Euro-superteam, it makes absolute sense that if America's going to be so ballsy as to have a man be a living emblem for their nationalism, why shouldn't other countries? And it makes sense with the national powers coalition that overthrew the Authority over in Wildstorm.

Canada has Guardian, for instance, Britain, obvious, and Red Guardian, for "red" Russia.

I look forward to Hauptmann Deutchland joining up.

15:42 / 13.01.05

big liefeld fan are we chad?

Haus of Mystery

16:03 / 13.01.05

Another good issue - no big fights, but some nnice plot movement.

bad bits - trite Millar dialogue, that often threatens to tip the comic into Nnnnnnngh! territory.

good bits - Thor. Hank and Bruce's chat.

16:38 / 13.01.05

Not at all, dear.

Merely suggesting that the rules that govern the development and motivations of superhumans are different in Ultimate Marvel. And I love it. I look forward to the EU superteam, and the trouncing they will recieve.

Haus of Mystery

17:06 / 13.01.05

I look forward to the EU superteam, and the trouncing they will recieve.

From whom will they recieve this trouncing? The 'ballsy' US?

17:50 / 13.01.05

Chad, I know it makes sense, but I don't care. I want Ultimate versions of lesser known MU characters.

Christ, Millar's been busy doing what he does best - writing entirely contemptible characters.

That meeting! Good fuck, the panels oozed with nastiness. Betty Ross is a nasty piece of work, almost unbelievably so. And Jan's pathetic, apologetic response to her little diatribe... wooo...

18:05 / 13.01.05

overall I enjoyed it...

the cover was a bit weak and inaccurate.

the Party scene was grand.. Capt just walks in complaining about "leaked classified files." Couldn't one of those clubers have recorded that on their cell phone or digitial camera?
The spitting on the soldier seemed a bit '60's in a post WTF world.

18:53 / 13.01.05

MacGuyver:

I'm expecting The Euro team and the American team to battle, of course. And I'm expecting Captain America to throw the first and the last punch, looking more pathetic and more desperate the more he fights. Of course the Ultimates will beat them down. The EuroCaps will be too smart to want to "win" a fight against a fellow supergroup.

Bobossboy:

It's cool. I just like it this way

That meeting WAS a bitch of a thing, wuddn't it? Everybody's such a scrapper and utterly self-absorbed. Jan's feebleness should be evident by the whole abused wife scenario. She backs down to everything.

18:59 / 13.01.05

I am glad Cap and Thor didn't turn into a fight scene in the club. I've always liked it when people bring up the 'you pray to God and to saints for specific things but yet you make fun of pagans, or don't believe in the supernatural' argument.

>> Betty Ross is a nasty piece of work, almost unbelievably so.

But she is right, though, isn't she? I don't see a way out of this other than a) killing Bruce or b) faking his death to the public. She is being both professional and moral to say 'look, he's gotta go, morally and politically, even though I like a romp in the sack with him now and then,' I think. Is she supposed to play the normal woman role and cry "I know he killed thousands of people but please don't hurt him, he's the man I loooove!"

19:08 / 13.01.05

I really like this dilemna Millar has put them all in...I mean, they DID lie to the public and the Hulk did kill all those people. So what do they do now to get out of this jam?

19:13 / 13.01.05

Thor springs him loose, or Banner willfully becomes the Hulk and escapes. He did eat Skrull after all, and may have absorbed some of the shapeshifting properties.

I'm thinking Loki has everything to do with what's going on, and that, yes, he will show up in the guise of a psychiatrist.

19:24 / 13.01.05

>>> think he means Frank MillER, because his last name looks like MillAR, even though they are pronounced differently.<<<

Um, I don't think they are...I'm pretty sure they sound the same.

i thought so, too, then i heard lots of other people calling him Mill-AHR, and i started to wonder. then at the SD convention i went to Joe Quesada's panel, and he consistently called him Mill-AHR, and i figured that he would know better than i would, so i presumed it was Mill-AHR, but maybe i was wrong.

I really like this dilemna Millar has put them all in...I mean, they DID lie to the public and the Hulk did kill all those people.

not only that, they lied in such a way as to justify their own existence. I think people would be stupid to not wonder if the whole thing was premeditated – create and release the Hulk, use Ultimates to trounce Hulk, use Ultimates to fight war in Iraq.

Of course, the Ultimates were then useful in stopping the Chitauri, but then again they were totally useless in finding the fugitive X-Men and stopping Magneto.

So what do they do now to get out of this jam?

I would imagine that they put Banner on trial for the crimes of the Hulk, Banner Hulks out, Hulk SMASH!, and we have the classic fugitive Hulk scenario.

Haus of Mystery

20:16 / 13.01.05

What about Hank, though? Could we be looking at a renegade Avengers team made up of all the best members? Yay!

Haus of Mystery

20:16 / 13.01.05

Whoops, I meant 'Ultimates' of course...

A beautiful tunnel of ghosts

21:37 / 13.01.05

I believe we've already seen Loki - in issue 1, where he poses as Volstagg. The scene where he speaks with Thor seemed to me to be an attempt by Loki to unbalance Thor - Loki lulls him into a false sense of security using Thor's relationship - real or imagined - with the jovial and genial Volstagg, both to warn him of his - Loki's - escape and to manoeuvre Thor towards another public breakdown.

I think it would be an immense boost to Loki's Machiavellian ego to sit in front of Thor and undermine both his public image and his worldview. The diners' reaction to his public appearance and seemingly unbalanced behaviour and Thor's reaction to the waiter's comments seemed to indicate that he's surprised at Volstagg's absence.

09:01 / 14.01.05

Yeah, Macgyver, It looks like the team is about to split down the middle.

Perhaps:

Thor
Ant Man
Hulk
And maybe, when all's said and done (but not until) Iron Man

Vs

Captain America
Wasp
Hawkeye
Black Widow
Quick Silver
Scarlet Witch

I'm not sure if they'll have the conventional one off battle, could be a little more complicated than that. In fact, I'm not sure of much except that this is a fun exercise.

Finder, I get the impression you think that Betty and Bruce's relationship is, although close, reasonably casual. I've always assumed that whilst it is ostensibly casual, underneath it all they're passionately in love. Thinking about it, I'm really not sure which position I subscribe to. Perhaps a re-reading is in order.
The former interpretation certainly makes Betty's coldness easier to take.

Even if the latter interpretation holds, I may have jumped the gun in condemning Betty - she still has time to show a little more humanity. I do, however, reject the accusation of gender stereotyping. If I'm guilty of anything, it's Millar stereotyping: the suspicion that I'm just being presented another deeply unlikeable character, 'cause he can't write anything else.
Notice I qualified "unbelievably" with "almost".

Haus of Mystery

09:06 / 14.01.05

With you there Boboss - Betty is coming across like a fairly one-dimensional hissable character, and has done since issue #1. No doubt she is Millar's comment on 'the meedja'.

- Another thing that got on my tits...Jarvis comment about Black Widow being a 'slutty minx'. Look! I can write 'gay' too!

09:10 / 14.01.05

Oh, I should point out that I really enjoyed this ish. The character dynamics are really strong in this book.

09:34 / 14.01.05

i'm not going to read this for another week or two but am enjoying the spoilies. like b-boy's analysis of the ulties breaking down into left and right, or the avengers versus the defenders, hawks and doves, however you want to play it. are there signs of other defenders turning up? ultimate strange exists already, ultimate surfer is probably going to be saved for smelly elly's ult. nightmare/revelation book or whatever it's going to be called. can't help but notice the EU (Eurultimates - niice) were digging around underwater in the preview - any hints on ultimate namor turning up soon?

10:09 / 14.01.05

Captain Britain isn't in the Ultimate Defenders, he's in the European Super-Soldier Initiative. According to Millar the Ultimate Defenders are a bunch of American(?) wannabes. Civilians inspired by the heroic example set by the Ultimates, or somesuch.

Have no idea which MU characters will get the Ultimate treatment, however.

11:55 / 14.01.05

Finder, I get the impression you think that Betty and Bruce's relationship is, although close, reasonably casual. I've always assumed that whilst it is ostensibly casual, underneath it all they're passionately in love. Thinking about it, I'm really not sure which position I subscribe to. Perhaps a re-reading is in order.
The former interpretation certainly makes Betty's coldness easier to take.

Even if the latter interpretation holds, I may have jumped the gun in condemning Betty - she still has time to show a little more humanity. I do, however, reject the accusation of gender stereotyping. If I'm guilty of anything, it's Millar stereotyping: the suspicion that I'm just being presented another deeply unlikeable character, 'cause he can't write anything else.
Notice I qualified "unbelievably" with "almost".

i don't think Betty is all that unlikeable, or even intended to be that way. she's a fucking pro and she's acting like it. she knows the fact that she may or may not love Bruce means fuck-all in the greater scheme of things, and she knows that self-destructing would do no one any favors, so what else is there to do but grit her teeth and soldier on?

she's like Ultimate Spider-Man: one of the great many characters in the Ultimate universe whose personal lives have gotten caught in the gears of the large-scale political machinations surrounding superhumans. it's a recurring theme.

12:23 / 14.01.05

Hmm, no, I still don't like her (for the moment, things may change). I mean, she is *orchestrating* the public humiliation, vilification and execution of her boyfriend.

Maybe she feels she could make it easier on Bruce.

Haus of Mystery

12:54 / 14.01.05

I think it's the definciancy of Millar's scripting that makes her seem so unlikeable. Whilst I think there's a lot of good characterisation in this issue, there is also some lazy bad stuff - the interplay between Wanda and Pietro just seemed too forced for example. You know what he's trying to do, but he always over-eggs the pudding. Don't get me wrong though, I am really enjoying volume 2, it's just it once again demonstrates what an essentially frustrating writer Millar is.

13:19 / 14.01.05

>> What about Hank, though? Could we be looking at a renegade Avengers team made up of all the best members? Yay!

SPOILER

****

Millar has said Hank and some others will become part of the [Ultimate] Defenders -- a low-rent supergroup.

I too think Betty loves Bruce but doesn't like to admit it because she feels he's beneath her.

I think Bruce loves Betty but doesn't to admit it because he sees how callous and cruel Ultimate Betty can be.

OK, was Jarvis really playing strip monopoly with SHIELD personnel or whoever in front of everyone during the sub rescue operation or was he just getting strip-searched, undressed for some odd reason? I find it hard to believe even perv Ultimate Jarvis would do that in front of about 6 other people, only a few of whom he knows.

ERNEST BORGNINE FISH! YAY SEAGUY!!!

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