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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

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Unconditional Love

13:27 / 16.02.07

Personally i have boundary issues, not just with spirits but with, living things in general, i know where they come from and what experiences have created them, i am precautious and careful with everything and everyone, things moving through those boundaries without my consent or trust, is abuse and effectively rape, any violent intrusion into my being without my consent is rape, i will then seek to eliminate that intruder deity or otherwise, even if it takes years.

Unconditional Love

13:30 / 16.02.07

Anything that tries to use my wounds to control me will die.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

13:39 / 16.02.07

No it won't. You need more certain defences than the death of some spirit that you are reading as an alien force violating your boundaries.

Unconditional Love

13:40 / 16.02.07

Anything thats worth working with, will recognise my personal issues and either try to heal them or leave them alone entirely. But certain wounds do attract arsehole spirits that just want to violently fuck with you and fuck you up.

13:51 / 16.02.07

That first sentence seems like a pretty big assumption on your part, IMHO.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

13:52 / 16.02.07

Maybe, but the answer isn't "I'm going to kill anything that does that." There are some things you can't kill--either because they are external and very powerful, or because they are internal and will last as long as the damage does. When you attack them, you are fighting yourself.

It's also the case that working with spirits kicks stuff up. Brings it to the fore. Makes you deal with it whether you want to or not. Sometimes that is painful. That doesn't mean that the spirits are evil and just want to hurt you; it just means that there are things in any life, especially a life like the one you describe, which are painful and hard to deal with. If you don't feel you can cope, maybe it's a good ide to back off for a while and take some downtime? Ground, go and do healing IRL stuff. The spirit world will still be there when you get back.

14:37 / 16.02.07

Aye. I think if you knock on the door of, say, a God concerned with things like pride, masculinity, passion, thunder and power, it's fairly implicit in that relationship dynamic that you will be challenged in these areas and you will be forced to negotiate the space in which those particular mysteries intersect with your individual personality, personal history and psychological make-up.

This can be pretty rough, depending on how out-of-whack your personality happens to be with the things that said deity represents. Or it can be totally plain sailing if you are especially comfortable in the emotional territory that a particular deity represents. But it is the difficult bits of these relationships, the challenges to your ego, the unpleasant stuff that gets stirred up and needs to be processed and assimilated back, which actually promote the most healing and growth.

You generally learn the most when you start encountering problems in these relationships with deity, as attempting to resolve these problems in the context of whatever is happening between you and deity X, gives you a platform for attaining personal equilibrium in the sphere that has become problematised. It was likely problematic before, and the deity work has just stirred it up and dramatised it in such a way that you need to face it and find resolution.

To respond to that sort of challenge by throwing up your walls and making statements like: "Anything that tries to use my wounds to control me will die" sounds to me like the wounds talking. Healing cannot occur without the wounds being cleaned and that can sometimes be a painful process to endure.

Besides which, how are you going to kill Odin or Shango or Jesus? Put up a website informing all of their millions of devotees that you've done it so they don't need to keep worshipping them? I can't even get rid of bloody Gek despite my best efforts! These things may express themselves through human-type personalities in order to relate to us, but their nature and is far more complex than just human beings without physical form. There's not much point in dealing with a God if you are not prepared to acquiesce to Their ideas about how they can help you understand, assimilate and find strength within their mysteries.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

15:24 / 16.02.07

I've come up against a similar kind of resistance myself at times, where I've been taking my percieved interaction with a particular deity too... literally, I guess. (I banged on about this over on one of my blogs recently.)

I realised that I have a tendancy to slip too far into the "some guy" mindset. My Guys are very viceral, very personal, I guess, so it's tempting to get into the mindset where I'm dealing with a plus-sized human consciousness--which is when the trouble starts because when They say I need to do something I don't wanna do, I end up reacting on an emotional level the way I would if a human authority figure was throwing his weight around.

But a God both is and is not "some guy." They are living consciousnesses, They exhibit drives and emotions, but They are also the mysteries that They embody. How do I fight Chaos? Or Love? Or Death? Aggressive leafleting campaign? In any case, what I'm having a problem with is often not the deity Hirself, but the way I relate to those things in my own life and psychological makeup. The interactions between myself and my Gods can often be an expression of that.

I get on very well with certain Gods and spirits because They embody things I'm comfortable with--healing, peace, love, compassion--whereas my relationships with deities embodying areas I'm unfamiliar or uncomfortable with--chaos, strife, trickery, the warrior mysteries, liminality and ambivalence--are a lot more fraught and problematic. That's not because Odin or Loki are Bad Guys, although some of my interactions with Them are downright hostile and scary. It's because of the mysteries that They embody, and my own issues with those things.

16:27 / 16.02.07

It's because of the mysteries that They embody, and my own issues with those things.

Yes that nicely sums up what the big roadblock was between me and Herself for a long time. Wasn't Her at all, it was strictly me not wanting to stick a toe into the mysteries of Her domain. Many IRL events had to happen before I was prepared to go there. I still freak out occassionally but I've learned it's just a healthy dose of self questioning gone into overdrive and wheel it back in accordingly.

Unconditional Love

16:43 / 16.02.07

Its the wounded child in me reacting, he either goes for the throat of what hurts or tries to hurt himself more, or literally find a way to end all pain.

I had a particularly shitty night last night as well, trying to sleep, a dream like an image of horus standing on snakes and serpents, then they all turned on me. That and finding myself self harming and finding pain to be the only release.

Its not been a good day or a good night. But at least i have somethings to think about now, and different perspectives.

16:45 / 16.02.07

Well, my best to ya dude. I'm sorry it's been so shitty for you.

Unconditional Love

16:51 / 16.02.07

My first encounter while drumming with horus was scary as well, a big broad guy in a hawk mask with talons for hands, with really strong laughter, ripping parts of my body away with talons.

I see what your saying about killing deities, futile, but part of me is insecure enough to react with all the anger i can muster when things begin to hurt or i feel invaded. Yet on other occasions when i am more relaxed its not such an issue, i guess thats the difference between entering with intent and being taken.

Unconditional Love

17:03 / 16.02.07

If i wasnt so stubborn and pig headed along with downright contrary and self absorbed in all probability it wouldnt be so difficult and any day of the week ill pass that off as my right to freedom.

Healing what responds as a hurt child is my first point of call and to stop blaming 'society' or god for everything, acknowledge where its at fault and then repair that myself.

Live and learn.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

17:08 / 16.02.07

Dude, you sound like you're in serious need of some downtime. Show yourself a little compassion.

(On a tangent: The killing deities thing is a regrettably common assumption/assertion, especially amongst the inexperienced and exitable. "You worship X? HAhaha, you fool! Me and my coven KILLED X on the astral plane last summer, just before we took our A-levels! You are worshipping an empty shell of ritual and cant! It is just like in Small Gods!")

17:37 / 16.02.07

People I called friends went out into the woods to battle against demons and where in a constant fight against some Buffyfied version of the Goetia. They all took on the names of famous fictional vampires. Pale, physically flaky and unfortunately scented "Blade" was good, as was the powerless, pseudo kawaii, and unlovable "Claudia"

Oh yeah, they where cool. Painful cool. One of them had headaches when demons (aka "quite spots in the conversation") approached. She was called Lestat and could remember a time before humanity when she was the only soul around and in a previous life she had been a gay male witch and seduced members of the clergy and aren't christians stupid and do you know that in every single one fo my thousands of life I've been gay?

The interesting commonality between them, other than their super powers obviously, is that they where unpopular, unemployed, and unworthy of my company. That sounds harsh, but when ugly girls in faux-victorian dress are telling you that not only do you not understand Metallica (for the record, I never pretended I did) but that she has also imprisoned your soul in a quartz crystal UNTIL YOU ADMIT THIS FACT, well, it just seemed time to move on.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

17:45 / 16.02.07

*Sporfle*

The horrifying thing is, they probably won't grow out of it. They'll just ditch the Rice drag and move on to something equally arsewitted.

(People ask me "how can you handle living with an atheist sceptic?" A lot easier than I could handle living with most occultists...)

17:49 / 16.02.07

She was called Lestat. Wow.

17:54 / 16.02.07

Not by her Mom, but she insisted that everyone else call her that.

17:56 / 16.02.07

A lot easier than I could handle living with most occultists

Oh yes I'm sure I narrowly escaped death when I chided the spouse about not dealing with his poopy job via manifesting a better reality. This of course led to the unicorn argument and if I had emailed him the picture of the unicorns goats he would have kicked my ass. I am however going to email him this.

Though mind you himself's the one that guided our wedding ring sigil creation.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

17:56 / 16.02.07

Did she write vampire pr0n featuring her very own completely original characters, Lewis and Lestan?

18:18 / 16.02.07

Aren't we all overlooking the fact that we need to help Princess get his soul back out of Lestat's quartz?

TO THE ARMOURY!!

18:22 / 16.02.07

I never thought a being could have too much soul.

But porno bee created when in soulless state?

Think of the damage 'could be done if he was back to full force!

Spells d-a-n-g-e-r.

'tis not creature of light, nor of man's mind. 'tis fearsome. woe.

18:29 / 16.02.07

"You worship X? HAhaha, you fool! Me and my coven KILLED X on the astral plane last summer, just before we took our A-levels! You are worshipping an empty shell of ritual and cant! It is just like in Small Gods!"

Do people really wax on like this? Whoa.

It is one thing to have an experience and state that what you perceived was you killing a deity, but to expect others to accept that you actually killed a deity is just stupid.

Yeah. You there, in front of the computer with a can of all 23 of Dr.Pepper's flavours...Yes, you, slayer-of-deities...*rolls eyes*

Deities have a shelf life, but it never ends with some pimply-faced-cyber-chaos-magician stylee theatrics, as far as I know.

Who killed what on the where? Give the Deities That Be some credit!Do people really wax on that seriously about such stupidness? And they are not joking?

You know, you really have to just laugh it off. What else can you do? It is just crazy-making stupidity.

18:39 / 16.02.07

Not by her Mom

Surely her Mom, Gabrielle de Lioncourt, knew her as 'The Darque Childe of Akasha'?

Or maybe Bertha. Or Pickle. Or 'The Mistake'...

18:43 / 16.02.07

Do people really wax on that seriously about such stupidness?

Only until they discover sex and driving.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

18:52 / 16.02.07

I think we need a MageAnnoy thread.

Unconditional Love

19:31 / 16.02.07

The whole killing god thing for me is tied into my childhood abuse, it took place in a religious context, i have learn t over the last 30 years or so that that is not possible, but part of me i would guess is trying to destroy the abuse, by destroying all association to the abuse. (ie anything to do with sex, violence and religion)

Although i do wonder, without having been abused as a child whether i would have any spiritual interests what so ever (trying to find gifts in my most traumatic life experiences) or have explored my sexuality, we will conveniently forget the violence part. At the moment i am in a very weird place thats a mixture of fragility and hostility, and i need to lay down alot.

I am taking downtime i go offline on tuesday for sometime, i need a break from the internet and to focus on more real things, like people rather than abstract systems of expression and navel gazing into every wounded part of myself like a narcissistic ninny. I shall probably pop in from time to time.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

19:41 / 16.02.07

Hugs, dude. Take care of yourself, eh?

20:01 / 16.02.07

Only until they discover sex and driving.

I suppose I will never move out of the stupid zone since I am not sexing or driving anything, or anyone for that matter.

Dear me, I must find a deity to kill so I can prove my superiority.

*eye-rolling and sigh of bewilderment*

20:04 / 16.02.07

Sed, none of that was aimed at you or your sincere struggles, BTW.

22:08 / 16.02.07

Good luck Sed.

10:39 / 17.02.07

Bloody hell, Sed. Good luck.

I feel a bit bad intruding, and tanking this thread in another new direction now, but on the other I hand I'm hardly capable of creating/sustaining a new thread on this, and also unsure as to whether or not one should exist, so here this is:

What the fuck is up with Hermes Trismegistus? How does SHe differ from Hermes (previously and currently)? Un-thrice great, I've heard him spoken of, from psychopompery I assume, as a border-crosser, while Thrice is the mercurial hermaphrodite. Are these two entities seperated enough for this to not be a conflict, or am I making too much of these being different goals?

Basically, I've seen him/her/them scattered in a number of places recently, at a time when issues of libraries, information, and boundaries within them are becoming quite important to me, and am wondering if there's a thread here to be pulled.

Also, why is he the god of so many things? And what is Hermeticism? And what are some good books? I loves me some good book learnin'.

10:55 / 17.02.07

In a nutshell Trismegistus was a human being, but I think a whole thread is full justifiable- newthreadpatrolgo!

10:56 / 17.02.07

Also yay pin! We were attempting to summon you just the other day.

11:08 / 17.02.07

'ello there.

New thread started, btw. Thank you.

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