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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

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15:32 / 26.02.07

Do you normally factor in an element of chance? If so, why?

I suppose I was reluctant to accept redundancy as significant, pin. Or, because something is an anomaly wouldn't necessarily mean it is significant, either - would it? I think that is closer to how I am questioning the readings. Is there a more profound a statement being made? I also wonder why there seemed to be a need for repetition.

On another coincidental note: Just yesterday morning, Keggers and I were having a lengthy discussion on the relationship between art and magick, over coffee. So, good job there, Withiel! Great suggestion for a thread, too.

Freaky Barbelith.

15:41 / 26.02.07

Can you please forgive my absent-mindedness? Gah.

I meant to say a thank you to Telephones and Telephone Bells!

*sigh-head-desk*

Make me Uncomfortable

15:54 / 26.02.07

It's cool.

Yeah, my synchronicity-meter has been pinging pretty hard these last few weeks, including accidentally stumbling onto this website while googling for info on the Situationists and going "ok, checklist time. Invisibles? Yes. Magic? Yes. Political discussions written by reasonable people? Yes. I need to join.... now."

As you said, Freaky Barbelith.

08:40 / 27.02.07

Sorry for diverging the current discussion but I have a question.

Is it considered 'logical' that when you are feeling like sh*t, sluggish, empty inside, etc, etc your magical performance degrades radically and you are more 'prone' to the so called psychic attacks ?. I`m feeling like someone's telling me that "OK, this isn't the make believe you did a year ago, things are a bit serious now, and you should take the whole deal more vigorously".

"More vigorously" translates to: keep your workspace clean and carefull of those toxic thoughts, they do more noticable damage to you.

09:22 / 27.02.07

And to add my one copper worthless opinion on the art/magick subject:

Although they are very close related these two there is an essential difference. Art is concerned mostly with the process of making art, thus the finished artwork does not have a 'function' as it is.
Magick on the other hand while employing art, produces 'artifacts' which beyond their artistic merit do have a function or an intent behind them. Magickal art in this case becomes the means, not the end.

I think Joel Biroco touched upon this subject somewhere in his journal, but I`m not sure where.

Daemon est Deus Inversus

14:01 / 27.02.07

Except that one becomes the "artifact." You become what you invoke.... You are changed by what you evoke.

(It's a lot easier to obtain almost any external goal by any other means).

Thus, in "Goetia," when Solomon sealed the spirits in a bottle, it probably means that he invoked them- supposedly in astrological order- into himself though in a relatively balanced matter (i.e., not at random). "Abrahmelin" is the opposite, more ambitious process.

14:09 / 27.02.07

Can we move the Art/Magic discussion over to the Art/Magic thread, please? Ta.

16:04 / 27.02.07

As mentioned in the Art/Magic thread I'm going to be doing public ritual performances of storytelling, divination, and healing this Spring/Summer in the New England US! area. Iffin' you'd like to be on the invite list please PM me your email address for the mailing list.

The Ghost of Tom Winter

02:18 / 28.02.07

So I've been seeing a lot of ladybugs lately (I found one on my coffee pot which is weird in itself since my apartment is in the bowels of the building and the closest door is many yards away, many other places too.). I was raised to always allow them to fly away and never to kill them, which is what I still do. It feels like there is significance within their spotting, but I haven't yet put my finger on it. I have some ideas.

So my question is what type of symbolism has been connected to ladybugs? What do you think they represent?

09:55 / 28.02.07

In the UK we call them ladybirds for some reason;

"The bright scarlet ladybird is a luck-bringer, probably because it is traditionally associated by its colour with fire. It is a sign of good fortune if one lands on a person's hand or dress. It must, however, be allowed to fly away of its own accord, and must not be brushed off. It is permissible to speed it onwards by a gentle puff, and by the recitation of the rhyme which runs,

Ladybird, ladybird, fly away home.
Your house is on fire and your children are gone.

The deeper the ladybird's color, the better luck it brings. The number of spots on its back are also important. The more spots...the better the luck!

If a young girl catches a ladybird and then releases it, the direction in which it flies away will be the direction from which her future husband will come."

superstitions link

10:31 / 28.02.07

There was a Buddhist monastary that I used to do retreats at. One February, during a retreat, there were ladybugs all over the Temple windows.

It was fascinating. Where do ladybugs come from in February, in Canada?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:36 / 28.02.07

I associate them with Freyja, but I can't recall why just now (aside from the "lady" thing).

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:37 / 28.02.07

Oh and they eat greenfly, so yay for ladybirds basically.

13:27 / 28.02.07

A bunch of my pals live in an old farmhouse that gets infested with ladybugs but instead of being creepy somehow we manage to be impressed.

Watching a huge cluster in the corner of a bedroom one day I thought "You know if that was any other kind of bug I'd be having an Amityville Horror moment, but those guys are cute!"

13:39 / 28.02.07

There's a very strange obsession with ladybugs (American name, sorry) with the international (Chinese) adoption community. I don't entirely know the origins of it, but they're commonly seen as omens of paperwork about to arrive or similar. I think it ties in to the red thread iconography (which is plenty vexed on its own), but might have to do with red being a lucky color in China, or with the whole maternal thing projected on ladybugs. And the "Fly away home" part of the rhyme, of course.

14:40 / 28.02.07

What about my question? :-(
It got sorta burried in the art/magick comments.

*

14:57 / 28.02.07

I have been bitten by a ladybug. So have a few other people I know. They don't bite terribly hard, but the sheer unadulterated shock of being bitten by a ladybug more than makes up for what they lack in force.

14:58 / 28.02.07

Is it considered 'logical' that when you are feeling like sh*t, sluggish, empty inside, etc, etc your magical performance degrades radically and you are more 'prone' to the so called psychic attacks ?. I`m feeling like someone's telling me that "OK, this isn't the make believe you did a year ago, things are a bit serious now, and you should take the whole deal more vigorously".

"More vigorously" translates to: keep your workspace clean and careful of those toxic thoughts, they do more noticable damage to you.

Sorry about that, gorg!

If the point of your practice is to eliminate any self-defeating habits/behaviors, then it seems like you are graduating at a nice pace while you are sorting through what your practice stirs up. I think it is natural to have periods of ups and downs through that process, but that is what you want. You should neither reject nor accept, or so I am told. The key, from my experience, is learning not to indulge in either the positive or negative. Thus, you are able to stay balanced and juggle life's experiences, at the same time.

15:15 / 28.02.07

I agree with the 'Trixy one. The only suggestion I can add is that you shouldn't beat yourself up about a decline in your magical work. You sound like you're at the low end of a bell-curve right now, and there's nothing wrong or illogical about everything feeling crap. You've made magic a part of your life, so it's going to take a downturn just like your work habits, etc. might do. You'll come back around, and your magic will as well.

My best to ya.

08:40 / 01.03.07

Thank you all!
I've been doing the previous month and a half some intense purification work (day by day, not missing a beat). I've had 2 times where I saw getting attacked in my dream and woke up completely ill and drained and one getting drained by a taxi driver (kid you not). I've been able to flush most of them but generally I was ending up with a whole day of feeling completely drained although I getting recovered the next.

This stirrup was expected as I had done again the same routine before and having generally the same effects initially (attacks in hypnagogic state and dream, general uglyness) but nowhere near the damage I got this time.

This ties up with the shitty overall feeling and my performance getting degraded. I mean, if you dont seriously work your magic and you are feeling like shit in between, you are an easier target for nasties arent't you ?

09:24 / 01.03.07

I mean, if you dont seriously work your magic and you are feeling like shit in between, you are an easier target for nasties arent't you ?

There's a lot of assumptions in the way you are talking about all of this, which set alarm bells ringing for me. I think you probably need to just back off from all of the magic bollocks for awhile and stop beating yourself up, stop obsessing over "intense purification" and arguably imaginary "astral nasties" or psychic attack. Do something else. Lighten your approach to this stuff. Find the pleasure and enjoyment in it. It shouldn't all be about puritanical cleansing and staving off invisible - probably imaginary - beasties.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

09:50 / 01.03.07

Is it considered 'logical' that when you are feeling like sh*t, sluggish, empty inside, etc, etc your magical performance degrades radically and you are more 'prone' to the so called psychic attacks ?

It's natural for your practice to take a bit of a downswing if you're feeling shitty generally. Mine certainly does.

You need to accept that you can't go at it at full-bore all the time. There are going to be times when you're just not at your best, and your practice is going to slump a bit. Accept downtime as part of your practice, like stretching before excercise. Use this time to step back, think about where you're going and what you really want out of this magic lark. Move your energies onto something practical and physical for a bit: Spring cleaning, walks in the park, a trip to the beach, stuff that'll help ground you and clear away the cobwebs.

As for psychic attack: dude, seriously. I mean, yeah, cleaning up your workspace and watching the toxic thoughts = sensible enough, but walking around stressing about psychic attacks or beating yourself up for not being hardcore enough is going to do you more harm than good. If you're that worried about eval 'fluences, do some simple stuff to strengthen yourself. Eat right. Take regular excercise in the fresh air. Hang out with your friends. Distract yourself with puzzles or games if you find you are brooding on negative ick. If you can't rid yourself of your fear of psychic attack, do some simple cleansing ritual once a day (like taking a hot salty bath in a mindful way).

Half of magic is knowing when to chill the fuck out.

11:05 / 01.03.07

Sorry if I came up looking like a puritanical hardcore psychic hypochondriac. I`m not really. Its just that I've observed that whenever I start this particular routine, things stirr up, uglyness comes forth, etc. This is rebalanced by the second part of the routine, or my journal says so.
I used the word 'intense' not to signify any 'jihad' type of mindset against psychic coffee stains and such. Intense as in the routine lasting long and me *trying* not to abandon it in the middle or skip the rhythm.

I really don't want to come off as a stereotype ceremonial magician :-).

I was also advised not to beat myself up and trying to be more forgiving to myself, so you are right on spot here.

The thing is, back when I've started and "woke up" for the first time, I realized in what a mess I was in all these years and how I've abandoned and left myself. I freaked out and since then, I've been beating myself up in order to remedy the situation, leaving no space for slacking or mindless pleasure because allegedly I've been doing that for a lifetime and that was what got me firstly in a mess.

But truth be told, I`m a lot more relaxed now than I was a year ago.
Play and Work are both in Malkuth right ?

Unconditional Love

13:48 / 01.03.07

I have this thing i do when i feel like this, i go for a walk, relax my hands as if they are bowls to recieve and start a train of thought that starts with ..... The chi of _

Helps if you know what chi is, but i use it to focus my mind and awareness on the things around me, while imagining i am interacting with those things.

So while i am out and about walking my mind is reciting....

The chi of barbed wire
the chi of yellow flowers
the chi of blue eyes
the chi of broken factorys
the chi of fat mercedes
the chi of accomplished women
the chi of lilac heather
the chi of rough stone
the chi of big wobbling arse

If i begin to abstract say like this...

The chi of chi
the chi of non chi
the non chi of chi's non chi
the chi of non chi's non chi

I bring myself back to

The chi of cat
the chi of green leaves
the chi of twisting branches
the chi of two headed tree

Basically i find it helps me focus on my surroundings, seems to energise me, puts me in a balanced mind, reflective yet not abstracting on circumstance, ie not assigning meaning to phenomena.

It keeps my mind in what is magical to me, bringing the world and myself to life through interaction and communication and stops me from engaging with thoughtless meanings that i may try to attribute.

I think is is inspired by buddhist walking meditation, a little tantra and chi gung exercises. I tend to become head fucked quite alot from overly attributing meaning to non meaningful events, so i am kinda glad i put this together for myself, perhaps you could put something together for you that works for you in a similar manner.

13:58 / 01.03.07

Yeah I get what you're saying. I've observed also that after a year of some grade work, gradually I could do this:

While raising my arms slightly and inhaling, an area 'somewhere' in my chest would open as well and I could feel inside that cavity whatever I chose from the outside.
For example, if I do this while focusing on the sky, it is as if the sky gets inside my chest or my chest expands and gets bigger as the sky , and so on, for all things, trees, sunshine, cities, people, etc.

This 'ability' was so totally subtle and it felt so natural as if I could do it all my life (but in reality, I couldn't).

Unconditional Love

13:58 / 01.03.07

So for example if you are inspired by kabbalah, watch your thoughts and feelings and how they relate to your environment and attribute paths and sephirah to them as energetic states, but without giving the meaning, just as dynamic states of interaction, seeing the tree branches and roots unfolding in everything yo do, when you remember to concentrate in that manner, this way magic becomes ordinary practice in daily life, it doesnt require special circumstance, they become more special in a sense in that respect, but daily life also becomes a meditation, and the mind begins to embody daily life as an energetic dynamic cosmology. The inner reflected in the outer circumstance.
Energy structure, movement, transitions without fixed essence of association, attributed meaning.

16:19 / 02.03.07

Whenever you are doing work like this, ugliness is bound to come up. It's the hidden becoming visible. Unless it's destroying you, it's a good thing. What I do in a general sense is to bring awareness, or bare attention to it. I enter into it, not as a motivator, but as a "thing" that I'm detached from. That way, I can liberate it's energy and use it, (not it as in the ugliness, but it as in the energy).

All to often people try to run from such things because most people do not want to cause suffering to others or themselves. Problem is, when such things stay hidden, they pull the strings, and one of the objectives of magick is to have fewer strings. If it's a behavior that is arising, trace it to it's source, and you'll find the button that is pushed. Be concerned about the button rather than what is pushing it.

The Ghost of Tom Winter

06:12 / 03.03.07

Just wanted to say thanks for the insights about the ladybugs(birds). Very helpful. I fell like my life has been changing and the driving entity behind it all must have ladybird fingers.

15:23 / 05.03.07

Anyone work the Japanese/Nipponese Kami and the Shinto faith? I'm looking for a good book on the subject.

12:29 / 09.03.07

There's this punk rock band that's been around forever, Social Distortion. They're from California and this is the logo they've been using for years.

Is there any magical meaning to this? Is it a voodoo baron guy?

14:27 / 09.03.07

I think he's just a Day of the Dead icon.

14:39 / 09.03.07

Yup. That seems to be right.

13:27 / 15.03.07

Okay, possibly a very stupid question, but I was reading this interview, and partway through, Ngak'chang Rinpoche,(whom I have no previous knowledge of), says this:

"R: Yes. That is a very real danger. That is a danger especially within the context of Tantra and Dzogchen. There are numerous stories in the Tibetan tradition of yogis - funny how it's always men isn't it - who 'attain' black-freedom, or rudra; a state of intense almost one-pointed egomania. But you don't just find these examples in stories or in the ancient history of Tibet and India; you can find examples of black-freedom 'adepts' today. You can find them in the West too. "

Now, I don't know much about this lineage, the Aro Lineage of Vajrayana Buddhism, as is the claim on the website. I am a little wary of the comment, "funny how it's always men isn't it - who 'attain' black-freedom...".However, what I am wondering about is the term "rudra" as the state of mind mentioned in the interview. When I googled it I was linked to pages on the Vedic God Rudra (Howler), who was a storm, wind, death God who changed His name from Rudra to become Shiva. There is perhaps, a parallel, maybe a metaphor for the state, but nothing direct and from the same tradition that really elucidates on the term "rudra" as it is used in the interview.

What is also interesting to me, is the recognition of this type of maladaptive behaviour as it relates to spiritual practice within Tantric teachings, and therefore, possibly there are teachings on the means used to overcome it*. So, in short, I am looking for information on the state of rudra.

*Knowing full well the short answer is: Practice!

Wolfangel mentions something something about a rudra mantra here. (I hope you don't mind me singling that post out!). There doesn't seem to be much else on rudra, and surprisingly, nothing in relation to maladaptive states and/or behaviour, or the attainment of "black-freedom", as Ngak'chang Rinpoche describes it.

Can anyone help me with this?

trouser the trouserian

15:05 / 15.03.07

Here's an extract from Keith Dowman's book The Sacred Life of Tibet which might help you shed light on this - see the section headed The Mother Tantra Vision - the sixth paragraph in describes the "parable of Rudra" in some detail. In this (PDF) article by Glen Wallis there is a translation of a mantra aimed at the subjugation of Rudra.

If you want to find out more about presentations of Rudra in the Vedic period, I'd reccomend starting out with Stella Kramrisch's classic book The Presence of Siva.

17:49 / 15.03.07

Thank you, trouser. Thrice-great gratitude for the spot on link, PDF and book recommendation. How delightfully significant.

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