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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

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19:05 / 11.04.07

Quantum, many thanks. I like your advice, and I take it on board - and I did kinda get what you were driving at with the cards, plus it made me wander away and do some research on them, which was always going to be a plus.

There are also, at last count, at least ten different threads on Banishing kicking around in the temple background, so I'll go through them as well.

Let's all just be fairly glad I didn't start the "I was an Occult Teenager" thread, though, as I considered, because I would quite possibly have embarassed myself beyond all return; but hey, if you learn from an experience, then it's not necessarily all wasted, I'm figuring.

20:29 / 11.04.07

That sounds like the most mortifying thread idea ever. And what's worse, in ten yeas I'd still be posting about my current lameness. It would be like the self doubt that never ends.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

22:46 / 11.04.07

Is that such a sucky thing, though? If you're not looking back and going "Gaaaaaaaahhhhh!" and biting your knuckles, then how do you know you're making any progress? Much as I want to go back and beat 15-y/o me over the head with a copy of the Poetic Edda whilst screaming "No! More! Dragonlance!" or kick 22 y/o me in the shins for wussing out just when things were getting interesting, at least I can look back and know I've made some serious progress. If you're looking at the stuff you were doing ten years ago, stroking your goatee and murmuring, "ah yes, how wise and advanced I was for one so young, surely great things must await such a prodigy," you're probably a rubbish witch and a useless git generally.

02:41 / 12.04.07

Auras, I noticed a similar thing a few months ago while I was doing interviews, one girl had this really bright yellow field around her. Since then Ive been working on trying to "read" auras. I find it always easy to see the aura but not so easy to tell its colour.

Please take a look at this Synesthesia

It would indicate that the colour we attribute to auras is subjective, would you agree with this idea? I think it might be interesting to investigate but I dont know how that might be done.

19:51 / 12.04.07

Phriar:
Or is the process of normal perception being altered by the state of my mind at the time, would you say?

That's what I'd say. I could be wrong.

I have a feeling I might not getting this entirely right, but despite the possible colouring of images through my own (weirdness of) mind, isn't there the physical possibility that there is a reasonance with something actually there?

My suspicion is that the something there is intangible, and probably consists of a thousand little somethings that all add up to something like "context" or "subconscious clues."

Have there been credible scientific studies on the perception of auras that you knew of?

Not really, no. Other than the Kirlian photo stuff, which is just weird.

20:11 / 12.04.07

I'd agree with the synaesthesia thing about aura perceptions, yes. Also with the idea that what we see with our eyes is v plastic & based on our beliefs. David Abram asserts that ecologically-intergrated humans tend to experience synaesthesia and suggests it's part of our normal ecological-relationship sensing toolkit.

@grant: The use of "aura" in art history is something a little different, probably stemming from Walter Benjamin's famous essay.

Right, that usage as summarized in the wikipedia article is obviously different. But I think Shaun McNiff, art therapy guru, uses it in the way I wrote about but probably influenced by the sense in which Benjamin uses it? I'm thinking of one of the essays in McNiff's book 'Art Heals' but I don't have a copy to hand.

21:04 / 12.04.07

focussing on Judgement, the last trump*

Looks like there's a missing footnote, Quantum? I admit, I'm curious. I can't remember anything about Judgement coming after the Universe/World card, but I can see why it makes sense.

--Ember--

21:05 / 12.04.07

Benjamin's ideas -- well, not his ideas, but the values he wants them to have -- always confuse me. I'm never entirely sure how sad or exultant he is about the death of the aura brought about by the democracy of image-making & image-replicating, mostly because I'm compelled by these beautiful images of wald (untamed forest) and ancient, shattered pots....

I haven't read the art therapist, so I can't say how much is taken directly from Benjamin, but if you're writing about "aura" and art history, you're drawing on Benjamin in some way.

That wikipedia summary is a bit different than my memory of Benjamin's aura, but as I've said, my understanding is, like, way incomplete.

21:23 / 12.04.07

the last trump*

sorry, you're right, I missed the footnote;

*not the final major arcana but the Christian doomsday, armageddon, “Behold I show you a mystery we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump, for the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed. (1 Cor 15:51,52) which is the origin of the imagery of the card in the Smith/Waite deck.

21:44 / 12.04.07

Stupid question, worms- there's Jörmungandr and Ouroboros, what other really big worms, wurms, wyrms or wyverns are there? Got any cool facts about giant wyrms inc. serpents?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

23:39 / 12.04.07

Lots.

There are LOTS.

Don't mix them up.

00:41 / 13.04.07

I know of Jormungandr and Ouroboros as being not just Wyrms, but specifically those who are eating their own tails.

But yeah, there are quite a few other huge serpentine/dragon type creatures.

--Ember--

03:22 / 13.04.07

Quetzalcoatl.
The Serpent in the Garden.
Python (slain by baby Apollo).
Python (the figure in S. Asian folklore).
The snakes of Damballah.
The Rainbow Serpent.
Any of numerous serpents and half-serpents in various sub-Saharan African myths & stories.
Possibly the long, or Chinese dragon.
Definitely the snake that pops up in the Lunar Zodiac (I think it's coincidentally called a sin, but I'm not sure).
Various and sundry local dragons, wyrms & wyverns, whether rampant for Wales or swimming across Loch Ness or being slain or tamed by St. George.
Nagas.
The Lamia (thinking of Keats more tha whatever tradition he was swiping from).
Jim Morrison: "The snake is long... seven miles. Ride the snake."
The interstate highway system.
MC Escher's planarians.
The planarians who learned to run mazes by eating the pulped bodies of other planarians who knew how to run the mazes.
The worms crawling in and out; the Conqueror Worm.
The giant Lovecraftian worms in Tremors.
The Diet of Worms. (sorry, couldn't resist.)

jentacular dreams

08:49 / 13.04.07

The Nagas

Especially Ananta Śeṣa, the cosmic serpent.

Mako is a hungry fish

11:29 / 13.04.07

Seraphim
by Micha F. Lindemans
Divine creatures from the Old Testament, associated with the Cherubim, and later taken to be angels. The root of Seraphim comes either from the Hebrew verb saraph ('to burn') or the Hebrew noun saraph (a fiery, flying serpent). Because the term appears several times with reference to the serpents encountered in the wilderness (Num. 21.8, Deut. 8.15; Isa. 14.29; 30.6), it has often been understood to refer to "fiery serpents." From this it has also often been proposed that the seraphim were serpentine in form and in some sense "fiery" creatures or associated with fire.
It is said that whoever lays eyes on a Seraph, he would instantly be incinerated due to the immense brightness of the Seraph. They are described as very tall, with six wings and four heads, one for of the cardinal directions. One pair of wings are for flying, one for covering their eyes (for even they may not look directly at God), and one for covering their feet (which is almost certainly a euphemism for genitalia). They are in the direct presence of God.

In Isaiah's call-vision in the Temple, he sees Seraphim surrounding the throne of God, singing praise to God; the "Thrice Holy" hymn (ch 6). In this instance they are angelic beings but in the Book of Numbers, seraph-snakes are sent to punish the Israelites.

Some of the Seraphim are Metatron, Kemuel, Nathanael, Gabriel, and Lucifer.

13:22 / 13.04.07

Cool.

Moses could also turn his staff into a serpent.

Mako is a hungry fish

15:18 / 13.04.07

"Then the Lord said to Moses, ‘Why are you crying out to me? Tell the Israelites to move on. Raise your staff and stretch out your hand over the sea to divide the water so that the Israelites can go through the sea on dry ground’ " (Exodus 14:15-16).

Hmmmn... never realised how sexual that allegory was before.

16:08 / 18.04.07

Ok seriously crazy idea to bounce off you kids.

What about a Barbelith Temple Journal? Not that I'm an editor (hahahah!) but I often can pull some cash out between my toes for projects.

I know it's a shitload of work and that's why I really respected BiaS for making it happen. But we know are looking at some sad facts over other people's efforts. But if you point out a fly in the ointment you should be prepared to make a new batch.

So I'm thinking we have a ton of really talented people in here doing very interesting stuff. I'd like to see rosie x's proto-article have someplace to go.

So I guess my question is can we and should we do this?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

16:16 / 18.04.07

I think it's a great idea. Sure I could submit something.

16:40 / 18.04.07

Brilliant idea... If that's on the cards then I will get busy and do my best.

16:58 / 18.04.07

Great idea. Writings not really my thing but i'd be more than happy to help out with design, illustration stuff. I've been getting back into self-publishing myself recently so have been doing a lot of research on printers, etc.

17:23 / 18.04.07

ok I will start a creation thread for us.

17:51 / 18.04.07

Go here to throw your hat in the ring for our collective work. We need all the lurv you can muster!

18:04 / 18.04.07

I was thinking the same. I'm in, and I'd be happy to investigate the ins and outs of it and provide admin support. Also an article, natch.

18:06 / 18.04.07

Quants, I swear sometimes we are using the same brain space. FISH POWERS UNITE!!

22:32 / 18.04.07

Ex

10:02 / 20.04.07

Long time lurker, first time Temple poster (I think).

I've just got a singing bowl. While I bought it primarily for aesthetic enjoyment, I'm thinking that it would be respectful to read up on its traditional use. Also, as I'm hoping to use it regularly to experience different kinds of thinking than I usually do (I want to have more non-verbal sources of pleasure), I expect some odd bits and bobs will surface, even if I'm not attempting to embark on some definite Path, so I'd like some context for that - to know what others experience.
(That was all phrased to avoid offense - hopefully it didn't also avoid sense.)

I'm slightly stumped because it potentially covers so many areas - music, meditation, chakras, Buddhism etc. And without being snobbish, it's the kind of equipment that does seem to attract a lot of vague-sprinkly-sunlight writing (I'm not trying to be hardcore, but I'm not trying to be an elf either).

One thing in particular's interesting me - a load of places inform me that different chakras are associated with different notes, but the list of notes and locations uses the Western octave I'm familiar with. Can this be accurate? Could it be a translation of the pitches into Western musical terms?

Ta to anyone who can assist.

10:28 / 20.04.07

Before the serious uses, put some water in it and see if you can make a standing wave from the tone. Fascinating fun.

Ex

10:57 / 20.04.07

Rock. I didn't know about that.

11:48 / 20.04.07

What offerings does Eros like?

12:00 / 20.04.07

Well, off the top of my head, and only having done minor work with him, I'd probably go for:

Dark red/back roses
Dark Chocolate
Peacock Feathers
Intact Eggs
Sex (shocker!)
Butterfly type things (he's in love with Psyche, who is represented by a butterfly)
Seeds
Man Seed
Masturbation

But that might just be me, rather than him.

12:14 / 20.04.07

I luv you.

12:16 / 20.04.07

For Eros, maybe dove feathers (if you're invoking love) or owl feathers (if you're banishing). I'd steer clear of candles in workings for him, based mostly on the myth that things went sour with Psyche when she used a candle to look at him, and spilled a few drops of wax on his shoulder. This is purely theory, as I don't work much with the Greek pantheon.

12:24 / 20.04.07

Ex, is it a shiny bowl? You basically hypnotise yourself with the sound because you have to concentrate on keeping the stick pressure and speed constant, so it's easier to switch off if you know what I mean, but it's even easier with a shiny bowl because you're staring into a concave golden mirror while you do it.

It's not easy to find out much though, "As Perry (1996) and Jansen(1992) state, little is known in western scholarship regarding Himalayan singing bowls" (from wikipedia)

Here's a good link;

It is strictly forbidden to talk about the rituals or the singing bowls themselves. This is because a knowledge of sound carries with it great power. It allows one to travel without moving. It is possible to come into contact with planets and their spirits, with the subterranean kingdom of Agartha and with Shambhala, the earthly centre of the Immortals. If you ask a lama with a singing bowl in his hands, whether or not it is true that they are used for psychic, psychological and physical purposes, he will smile and reply; 'Perhaps.'"

Ex

13:39 / 20.04.07

Fantastic. Thanks.
I already love the combination of focus and sitraction it requires - I find I have to let the movement become automatic but constantly monitor it as well, and yes, it's a very odd mental state to be in.

It's ... it's a bit shiny. I didn't buy it because it's shiny! Honest.
It's a handhammered rather than a lathed one (I was fortunate) so it's not as cleanly reflective, but I think I'd prefer that - I find images of myself a bit distracting.

The seller sent me a sound file! The lowest tone and the highest seem to be just under an octave apart, so that it will sound an optimistic undertone, then a melancholic top-note. I am a bit too excited.

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