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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

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Unconditional Love

15:05 / 28.03.07

I have just started reading through robert masters fifth way the goddess sekhmet, i have come across references to psychophysical work of his and wonder if anybody has engaged with this. What i have read so far seems to engage with mantra and visualisation as a process of familarity, but the next chapters seem to detail body work, what are termed psychospiritual exercises, has anybody worked there way through this book? What experiences might you be able to relate?

Unconditional Love

12:03 / 01.04.07

Serious question may sound crazy, regarding kundalini and the ureaus serpent, they are both described as fire serpents, there is an egyptian text that describes it wrapping around the head and illuminating the temples, i wonder wether the ureaus comes from above rather than below as described by the kundalini.

Is there a Sun serpent that enters through the crown? Should i just go with the idea and try to work it that way? i know it sounds weird but, i think i am just going to have to play with the idea, Fiery serpentine beams of sunlight illuminating the crown.

So is the kundalini back to front? bit hatstand huh?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:28 / 01.04.07

No idea, but I do know this: There's more than one snake. There's a lot of snakes. It's important not to mix them up.

jentacular dreams

13:43 / 01.04.07

Partly off the back of wolfangels postive psychology thread (which I will endeavor to draft a response to once I've done a bit more reading) I was wondering how much magic/spirituality recognised practioners feel there is in the every-day life of those who do not consciously practise (or even believe in) such things? (apologies if there's a thread on this already - did a search but my keywords didn't seem to pull up anything relevant)

For example, could recurring phrases in one's inner monologue count as mantras? Can they have an effect greater than psychology alone can explain. Are there simple spells that can be cast accidentally, or are they nothing without will behind them? Broad thoughts and opinions welcome.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

18:21 / 01.04.07

As much as there is in mine. Probably more. Forgetting that is one of the ways you get eaten by the Snake.

(A different Snake.)

23:45 / 01.04.07

I was wondering how much magic/spirituality recognised practioners feel there is in the every-day life of those who do not consciously practise (or even believe in) such things?

A ton, whether it's a teenager emulating the rock star whose posters adorn his room or an Italian grandmother entreating the Blessed Virgin or a political operative thinking about just the right way to phrase that libelous press release.

12:32 / 02.04.07

On the subject of various snakes, I remember reading something of Israel Regardie where he discussed the differences between the Middle Pillar exercise and Kundalini meditation. He wrote that Kundalini practice focusses on raising yourself to a higher state, whereas the Middle Pillar calls on a higher power to descend into you. Something like that.

I don't remember exactly where I read it or the finer points he made. Perhaps someone else could help here.

Unconditional Love

12:41 / 02.04.07

Good point for me to remember mordant, i have been thinking about rainbows and pots of gold, The idea of a rainbow serpent that is the embodiment of light that raidiates gold down through the crown. I can think of a couple of cultures that have rainbow serpents in off the top of my head (heh), but i will have to research the context.(id rather find a egyptian working point) Also i need to spend more time with the egyptian goddesses Wadjet and Renenutet, i have started a practice with the two of them, which at the moment is, i am possessed by a cobra type of trance work, a cobra ready to strike. Which i think leans more heavily in Reneutets direction, So i will see what i can do with Wadjet and Sekhmet who have obvious relations in egyptian mythology. Also thou i think i need to begin work with Re. Work work work.

Unconditional Love

12:44 / 02.04.07

But that snake is eating it own tail constantly, what am i having for lunch today, ah myself again.

13:37 / 02.04.07

For example, could recurring phrases in one's inner monologue count as mantras?

I would rather call them affirmations, whether the thoughts are affirming positive or negative qualites.

Although, it is not impossible that someone may have a thought pattern that emulates a mantra-type qualities, it is highly unlikely. Mantras are designed to resonate certain frequencies trought time and space, with power of billions, upon billions, of repetitions throughout the ages to qualify that resonance. I hardly think the day-to-day monotony of repetative mind-fluff is considered mantra.

13:53 / 02.04.07

I meant to post a question of my own regarding Sally Tisdale and her book "Women of the Way". I am really taken with it her boldness, as the issues she raises have plagued my relationship to the Buddhist path. I am wondering if anyone else has read this book, and if others would like to have a go at Sexism in Buddhism, as a thread?

Also, please excuse my piss-poor grammar and spelling in my post above.

Unconditional Love

15:09 / 02.04.07

I think i have found part of what i am looking for here, it relates to some divination done at the start of the year.

THE TWELFTH DIVISION OF THE TUAT, WHICH IS CALLED THEN-NETERU

15:11 / 02.04.07

Mantras are designed to resonate certain frequencies [throughout] time and space, with power of billions, upon billions, of repetitions throughout the ages to qualify that resonance.

What exactly does this mean?

Clearly, a mantra is (almost by definition) repeated, and therefore recurs through time.

If the mantra is said out loud, then like any other sound it "resonates" (that is, vibrates) at a given frequency, and moves through space to a limited extent.

Moreover, mantras generally are meant to "resonate" (evoke an emotion or mental state) in the minds of their users.

We even can say that the teaching and repetition of a mantra by thousands or millions of people over thousands of years (Hail Mary, Om Nama Shivaya, Sh'ma Yisrael, etc.) can convey or perpetuate a given belief.

But saying that "Mantras are designed to resonate certain frequencies [throughout] time and space, with power of billions, upon billions, of repetitions throughout the ages to qualify that resonance" sounds like mantras have some mystical or even quasi-scientific significance (involving "vibrations") beyond the above.

What do you mean by this, and what evidence do you see for it?

15:37 / 02.04.07

Ev, I just want to say that I completely agree with you on your post above regarding the magickal significance of everyday behaviour.

I want to point out that "mantra" means something specific, as it comes from a certain tradition. I suppose I take issue with "mantra" being equated with mental chatter.

Also, I am not implying that the thoughts we have, have no power. Simply that "mantra" implies something in particular, that the very phrasing one uses has been recited by many, many beings before you, and many, many, others afterward.

Ev, if you want a thread to discuss mantra, it would be wonderful to discuss it. I am not meaning to offend, nor am I even in disagreement with what you said. I don;t think it is a good idea to confuse such a powerful concept with subconcious mainstream thought, as I understood the question. However, I think it is possible to, with realization, to convert ordinary thought into mantra. Unless we are including ordinary sloganizing of hprasing into mainstream conciousness, "a mantra".

15:45 / 02.04.07

...sounds like mantras have some mystical or even quasi-scientific significance (involving "vibrations") beyond the above.

What do you mean by this, and what evidence do you see for it?

I suppose I am, and I am not certain what evidence I can present for my position, other than to say that they are often used in tandem with teachings of various deities that are used to nuture the eventual ripening of the mantra. One cannot get that with simple repetition of fequency.

15:49 / 02.04.07

I want to point out that "mantra" means something specific, as it comes from a certain tradition. I suppose I take issue with "mantra" being equated with mental chatter.

No argument here.

17:34 / 04.04.07

I just want to make certain, but you realize, Ev, that I never used the word "vibration", right?

18:16 / 04.04.07

Understood. This is what you said:

Mantras are designed to resonate certain frequencies [throughout] time and space, with power of billions, upon billions, of repetitions throughout the ages to qualify that resonance.

18:35 / 04.04.07

OKay. I can understand why that may not be clear, and it my fault for using such loaded jargon. It only got in the way. I will give it another go, but it would be great to have a thread to discuss what qualifies mantra, if we don;t have one already.

As I understand it, (which, no doubt, could be skewed), the "charge" of a mantra is not simply in an individual's repetition of it, but the repetition of that mantra throughout the ages, which is quite different than having a repetitive thought pattern. I hope that is clearer and without all the quasi-quantum physics colloquialisms, or at least less.

18:56 / 04.04.07

I reckon if you'd put resonance etc. in scare quotes there would be no problem, it's just the blurring of the literal/metaphoric line that's problematic.

19:04 / 04.04.07

Linguistically, actually, it might be the physicists who've blurred the lines on that one -- "resonance" comes from "resound," as in to echo or to say back again.

Etymology Online says "resonate" was first used in 1873, which is more recently than I'd have thought. I wouldn't be surprised if it was coined by an acoustical researcher who was also a musician.

07:02 / 10.04.07

The question I've been asking myself for a few years, since I first started noticing how I started to look differently at people. Is the visual experience of seeing one or more colors surrounding a person, a sort of glow surrounding them mainly caused by a weird mix-up of visual impressions? I'm skeptical as to whether being able to see "auras" is plausible, but I keep getting the impression that it does keep happening to me.

The reason for my skepticism is that I'm usually only able to see the colors when zoning out, glancing past the person without focussing. Also, there has to be a very clear white backdrop. And lastly, I'm also often tired when this happens, so it could just be my own brain playing tricks on me.

On the other hand, the colors are very distinct when I see them. For a professor who was joyously engaging with students and believes fervently in what he teaches, it became a vibrant blue. For my ex-girlfriend, holding back and being a little uncomfortable, it was a light-green. For a very sick friend of mine while he was in hospital, it was bordering on grey-black.

What are your personal experiences with the viewing of what could be perceived as aurus in a magical sense? Are clear distinctions made between what auras are and how they are perceived and what simply could be left-over images from differing light-sources or a mish-mash of visual impressions?

09:09 / 10.04.07

Yeah, I get some of that stuff though the details aren't quite the same: I've not particularly noticed it when tired or against a white wall. I describe it as a kind of 'visual overlay' - I'm seeing it with my eyes but it's translucent, and seems to me it comes from a different layer of my mind than my seeing of the things that are totally solid.

Recently I came across the term 'aura' in Shaun McNiff's writings about art - he's an art therapy specialist. He uses the term - and I get the impression it's perhaps reasonably common usage in art criticism? - to mean the kind of overall impression of the art object. A way of summing up all the little clues about the 'energy' the art object is invoking.

My thinking about the misty fields of colour that appear visually is, they come from the same place as that 'aura' that McNiff talks about. It seems useful to me that my strong creative imagination funnels some of the information about the person into my visual field - personal HUD. Someone whose brain isn't so attuned to visual information might be processing and self-representing that extra data a different way.

17:53 / 10.04.07

Can anyone recommend some good techniques for grounding?

A bit of background; I was an Occult Teenager, and I'm not proud. My limited experiences with what I saw as 'magic' were just that - extremely limited - and also rather dumb. This caused me to drop back and attempt to move on and forget about the whole shebang, but I'm feeling recently like there are a few wisps of my previous very ropey work still hanging around like tendrils of smoke.

So, in terms of grounding, I'm looking for something that will pacify the limited work I've previously done and create an emotional severing tool - I don't want to use the word 'closure', but I think I may have to. I'm willing to admit that this current issue is also memory/emotionally related, but I get the feeling that if I could lay a single aspect to rest I may be able to gently domino the others.

Any thoughts, or is it possible that I'm just projecting?

18:31 / 10.04.07

So, in terms of grounding, I'm looking for something that will pacify the limited work I've previously done and create an emotional severing tool - I don't want to use the word 'closure', but I think I may have to. I'm willing to admit that this current issue is also memory/emotionally related, but I get the feeling that if I could lay a single aspect to rest I may be able to gently domino the others.

I'm unclear on if you want a method of grounding yourself energetically or something like a banishing-house cleaning method?

From your description it reads more like a banishing you are after than a grounding...

18:36 / 10.04.07

Sorry, I don't think I did a very good job of defining my terms.

Theoretically, yes, it is a banishing I'm after - but I was thinking of it in terms of grounding to take what I was and try and separate it from what I am now, which is what I think the effect I'm trying to describe feels like.

Everyone gets tied up in their memories, but this feels like more than regret, somehow - it feels like something's still got a few wisps out towards my life, and while they're not malevolent, they're not benevolent either. It just feels, well, kinda spooky, really. Which isn't a good description, but feels apt, right now.

18:47 / 10.04.07

On auras -- my personal preference is to interpret aura reading as something that's psychologically useful, but with little-to-no basis in physical phenomena. I don't think Kirlian photos, for example, are taking pictures of the same things psychic sensitives see (or, more precisely, "see").

The use of "aura" in art history is something a little different, probably stemming from Walter Benjamin's famous essay. I'm not sure I buy that wikipedia summary, but it's a pretty dense little piece of writing, so that's as good a synopsis as any.

18:47 / 10.04.07

Feverfew- what you are describing is this;

...and what you want is this;

20:03 / 10.04.07

Grant said:

On auras -- my personal preference is to interpret aura reading as something that's psychologically useful, but with little-to-no basis in physical phenomena. I don't think Kirlian photos, for example, are taking pictures of the same things psychic sensitives see (or, more precisely, "see").

-------

I haven't heard of Kirlian photographs before, (find out something new every day) but I'll look into it.

As for aurus having no basis in physical phenomena, I was wondering. If I perceive that there are colours surrounding individuals, if only in certain situations, it is the external stimuli that have to give a certain basis for my perception right? Or is the process of normal perception being altered by the state of my mind at the time, would you say? I have a feeling I might not getting this entirely right, but despite the possible colouring of images through my own (weirdness of) mind, isn't there the physical possibility that there is a reasonance with something actually there?

Have there been credible scientific studies on the perception of auras that you knew of?

20:06 / 10.04.07

Quants, while I totally get what you're putting down with the tarot images it might seem a bit confusing without an accompanying description.

The Ghost of Tom Winter

01:19 / 11.04.07

I'm doing a research paper for one of my anthropology classes on the integration of Catholicism into Haitian Voodoo and vice versa (perhaps also talking about how it was used in America as well.)
I wanted to start a discussion here on it, but then Princess made those Saints/Catholicism threads. Basically, my question is: should I just start a new thread discussing the relation between Catholicism and Voodoo or just talk about it on the already made ones?
Also if a thread of that nature would generate enough talk to merit its own space.

04:01 / 11.04.07

Here is an older Voodoo thread that might interest you, and which would probably be a good fit for a Catholicism/Voodoo discussion. Or start a new thread, if you like. Should generate some interesting discussion either way. Talking about the Catholic saints in relation to Voodoo (or vice versa) wouldn't be at all out of place in the Saints thread.

16:27 / 11.04.07

No, I'd be really happy for it to happen in the Saints thread.

17:31 / 11.04.07

Sorry it took me a while to get back and explain those cards (XK is right of course, I did mean to explain earlier).

I'm looking for something that will pacify the limited work I've previously done and create an emotional severing tool - I don't want to use the word 'closure', but I think I may have to. I'm willing to admit that this current issue is also memory/emotionally related, but I get the feeling that if I could lay a single aspect to rest I may be able to gently domino the others.
...
I was thinking of it in terms of grounding to take what I was and try and separate it from what I am now

Feverfew, the six of swords there has someone punting over a lake to a new life, taking the memories and psychological scars and emotional baggage with them (the swords and people in the boat). I think that sort of decribes what you're talking about, the strands and echoes of your old practice carrying into your present.
Judgement shows closure, drawing a line under a situation and then judging the good bits and bad bits etc. which you can only do when something's finished. Like dying and being born again it shows a new beginning, so it sort of shows the state you *want* to be in.

I'd suggest meditating on the six first and attaching your old practice and bad memories to the image, then focussing on Judgement, the last trump*, banishing your cobwebs and echoes and starting your practice afresh. Even if that's not your cup of tea, the images provide a clear difference between the two states which I hope is helpful.

18:12 / 11.04.07

well I for one think that's a kickass suggestion and very helpful tool.

YAY for Quants!

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