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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

  
  

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E. Coli from the Milky Way
18:54 / 19.12.06
Nobody on the internet is going to have any special insight into it. What does it mean to you?

Well. Really nothing. Since there are some onirical lanscapes shared by people all-over the world, and for me is a very strange experience to have a lucid dream, i was only asking.

What does it mean to you?
 
 
Char Aina
19:13 / 19.12.06
it makes me think about that one time i watched loads of kung fu movies and was reading a lot of lone wolf.
i had wierd dreams about mountaintop kung foolery all the damn time then.

well, except when i went to sleep wasted.
those times i have no idea where my head went.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
08:35 / 20.12.06
Since there are some onirical lanscapes shared by people all-over the world

Are there? I think that is total bollocks, actually. How can you possibly support a statement like that as if it were acknowledged fact?

What does it mean to you?

You have probably been watching some kung fu movies.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:48 / 20.12.06
How can you possibly support a statement like that as if it were acknowledged fact?

The same way he can support "videogames are making people more enlightened, because epilepsy is sort of like shamanism and I read where videogames give you fits" and "big nobs remove the pain of childbirth by awakening the cervix," one imagines.
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
14:14 / 20.12.06
Ok. Let's see.

First of all, i've complained for my psychotic, non-sense attitude in this forum a lot of times. Again, sorry, i was going throught bad ideas, bad relationships, etc. But hey, i hope this is the last complain i'll do in this forum. I understand that my former conduct does arise in people nothing but cynism. OK.

If you read the post of Videogames (let's leave aside the one of the womb), and yes, you leave aside all that gibberish it was floating in my head that time, I hope you'll find more arguments than that of the "seizures thing".

Look, i was going to post all the ideas and experiences that *could* defend my position in a more ordenated way, but i've just realised that anything I'll say will change the bad idea that this forum has on me (and I certainly understand that you have that bad idea).

So that's why I will not post here anymore. A shame, but maybe I'll return in the future like an annonymous and more humble new member.

And for the kung-fu thing, gipsy, i will tell you that actually i don't see kungfu films, but i'm going on a daily practice in this art, so, ok, i'm following your meme "do things". As for the dreams, see literature about shamanic conceptions on dreamscapes and in parapsychology about shared dreams.

Anyway, thanks Barbelith for helping me growing up.
 
 
electric monk
15:17 / 20.12.06
Before we fill our hankies with tears and put on the My Chemical Romance CD, let's stop and think for a minute. As it stands, you've racked up a record of posting some not-very-well-thought out hypotheses and have had "bullshit" called on you. A couple of times. Annoying? Yes. But I don't think there's any need to wave farewell just yet. Instead, take a break. Take a good, long break. A couple months at the least. Think about where you've gone wrong and how you can avoid doing so in the future.

(and I certainly understand that you have that bad idea)

And yet, I'm not sure you understand how this has happened. Again, use your break to find some answers to this. Look back over what you've posted and the responses you got. I think you'll find some hints.

Best of luck, dude.
 
 
Papess
15:21 / 20.12.06
Well, "growing up" is a lifetime occupation.
 
 
setsuna
02:47 / 27.12.06
Sorry if this is a little long - I didn't really think it warranted a new thread. Up until this past year, I was a happy (and rather smug) agnostic, and I know a lot of you work with deities, so I could really use some input. This may be more of a stupid situation than question, but here goes:

My ritual at Solstice was symbolic and for self-healing and prosperity. I used an oil attuned to Ra and dressed one of my candles to represent a phoenix. I wouldn't go so far as to call it an invocation, more like a prayer and drawing down of solar energy to charge a grid I'd set up in my room.

One spontaneous thing that happened is I pricked my finger during the set-up (don't know how - something sharp hidden in the carpet) and decided to anoint the phoenix candle with the blood. I took it as a sign that some blood offering was in order, I guess.

Afterwards, I was pretty sure it had been a success, because that night I had a lucid dream I was in a dark room and gave birth to a hummingbird, which promptly shot off like an arrow, and I've been bumping into images of suns everywhere I go. My grid was humming along great initially, but I can tell it's already fading, and I haven't gotten around to recharging it.

So tonight, I'm cleaning my house, and while doing nothing special, take a huge chuck of flesh out of the same finger I pricked during the ritual, in the same spot. It's still bleeding, not to mention hurts like bitch. Am I paranoid to see it as more than coincidence? I'm really new to all this believing the gods are trying to tap me on the shoulder, so I could use some experienced opinions.

Here's my main concern - by using my blood in the ritual, did I in essence dedicate myself to Ra, even if that wasn't my intention? And would the fact that I swallowed a pomegranate seed at Samhain and metaphorically - in my mind, anyway - dedicated myself to Pluto play into this at all? Am I in over my head (wouldn't be the first time) or just a dumb bunny making a big deal out of nothing? Or maybe it's just a reminder to charge my grid?
 
 
Unconditional Love
06:05 / 27.12.06
The dream is intresting, osiris often depicted as giving forth horus or the kite is also known giving forth the bennu (pheonix), sometimes associated with venus, the bennu is described as the soul of ra, pluto could correspond to hades ie osiris, depending on how you wanted to see things.

You could see the offering of blood from the body (finger) of osiris (dead consciousness) being enlivened by the soul of ra rising up from the dead sleeping body, gold transformed from lead, again depending on how you wanted to see things.

The Benu (Bennu)

Careful where you put your fingers.
 
 
Unconditional Love
06:12 / 27.12.06
Perhaps growing up is a lifetime of playing at being all grown up, i dont like the occupation part, sounds like hard work, but then i know somebody somewhere said initiation never ends.

Cycles of children becoming parents giving birth to children becoming parents giving birth to children, initiation never ends.
 
 
Unconditional Love
06:37 / 27.12.06
To add you could also see the samhain ritual as symbolic as a journey into the underworld, darkness becoming longer the light getting shorter, and the winter solstice as the birth of the days becoming longer, the rising sun, light becoming more accentuated, sun rise.

The seed being planted into the earth to flourish and fly forth as a solar bird. Death and rebirth.
 
 
EmberLeo
11:34 / 27.12.06
Or maybe it's just a reminder to charge my grid?

Well, that's how I'd have taken it were I in your position, but I'm not you, and I don't know Ra very well, so I can't say for sure.

--Ember--
 
 
setsuna
03:02 / 28.12.06
You could see the offering of blood from the body (finger) of osiris (dead consciousness) being enlivened by the soul of ra rising up from the dead sleeping body, gold transformed from lead, again depending on how you wanted to see things.

That's pretty much what I was going for (and thank you for the link). I'm set to start on a little journey of self-undoing soon, so I'm hoping to work well with both the light and the dark.

As long as my finger didn't go and write any checks my ass can't cash. But I'm probably thinking of the Lwa in this case, anyway. These used to be strictly psychological workings for me, but I don't really see the gods as simply archetypes anymore. And yet, I'm not quite ready for the next level either.

Fun and games with liminality.
 
 
Ticker
12:30 / 28.12.06
These used to be strictly psychological workings for me, but I don't really see the gods as simply archetypes anymore. And yet, I'm not quite ready for the next level either.

Fun and games with liminality.

It's a tricky segue to make gracefully and I'm not sure it is supposed to be a smooth ride. Do you have folks in your life you can talk to about it? The punchline is of course, that when it happens you will be in fact ready for it even if you don't think so. Prayer will help align your intent and will call assistence to aid you.

Being in a liminal state is quite powerful but it can be highly stressful. Just keep in mind that it is not intended as a full time state.
 
 
setsuna
17:23 / 28.12.06
The punchline is of course, that when it happens you will be in fact ready for it even if you don't think so.

Yes, I do think I know what you mean by that. I'm currently surrounded by atheists, so I'm on my own if I find myself communing with the gods.

I'm set to start with a teacher next month, but that's more for the Reichian and kundalini stuff I'm looking to work with. If anything, this program seems to have a Philosophical Luciferian flavor to it, so ...I dunno.

And I just took the bandage off my finger - would it sound terribly delusional of me to say the wound looks an awful lot like a tiny phoenix? Because it really kinda does. Interesting.
 
 
Ticker
18:50 / 28.12.06
one of my first events during my Pledge Week was opening a bottle of wine as an offering at a sacred ancient site and of course somehow splattering a nearby standing stone (hey it turns out to be the ancient altar!) with blood as I ass-dent-ly nicked myself. This was after many successful bottles had been opened elsewhere with no such tomfoolery. I was jaw droppingly horrified.

Blood has a way of being spilled when it is required. So it's best to have a first-aid kit to hand during ritual work.

On the bright side these wee nudges in the right direction can be read as Someone paying attention and having Interest. On the grey side what it means takes time to discover. On the dim hazy side there's the Oh Shit factor that requires one to hit the books for clues.

In my case it turns out I was standing in front of a holy site belonging to my Gods without really knowing it previously. But then during Pledge Week I wasn't really clear on who my Gods were so it helped clear up the confusion. Luckily They seem to like me so not a lot of ass-a-dental self stabbing occurs any more. I'm pretty proactive on the blood offerings anyhow but that's for another thread. Some of the really Ol' Gods like to stick to the basics.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:39 / 29.12.06
They do that. I found that at-least-weekly bloodletting (just a drop or two) averts a lot of mysterious injuries.

As noted elsewhere, of course, you should be careful Who you offer blood to. Some entities might assume that you are in fact offering yourself as dinner.
 
 
Ticker
12:45 / 29.12.06
I hafta say the whole blood thing seems to be very God/system specific. Some of Them really have no interest in that sort of thing.
 
 
Unconditional Love
18:55 / 29.12.06
I have never been asked for blood, at least in my memory, thou i could be wrong. but today i was instructed to wash a statues brow, shoulders and feet. I have to prepare an end of year feast for all the spirits that have helped me through this year, anybody else do anything similar?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:32 / 01.01.07
I think that's a very positive way to kick off the New Year. I'm going to do a big New-Yearsy thing for my Guys when I get home in a few days, aside from the various little nods and toasts I've been offering up over the festives. Check in formally, let Them know my plans and resolutions, ask Them if there's anything I should be doing.

On another tack all together, someone on an e-list I subscribe to mentioned having come across an old legal text (prob. Anglo-Saxon) which had a list of banned occupations. Witches are on it, as are poisoners and other assorted miscreants, but it also referrs to valkyries. They banned valkyries? As a career path? "Are you going to stay on at school after your GCSEs?" "No, I'm going into the Valkyrie Vocational Training Programme." I'm just really interested as to what these people might have been doing that counted as being a valkyrie and merited legislation. Anyone?
 
 
Leigh Monster loses its cool
21:49 / 01.01.07
Hm. When Gunner is heckling Brynhild in the Saga of the Volsungs, he says something about, "not only do you torment dead people..." but in general you're just a terrible person, yada yada yada. Not the actual phrasing, but the tormenting dead people thing was a derogatory reference to the fact that Brynhild was a Valkyrie.

A Valkyrie's job was to escort the fallen to Valhalla, so my guess is that in practical terms that meant they were psychopomps, which could definitely be construed as witchcraft. Also, they were associated with ravens and carrion crows, hanging around the battlefield and watching for the dead...a habit that might not have been thoroughly condoned by early Christianity.
 
 
Leigh Monster loses its cool
22:20 / 01.01.07
(Also they were basically priestesses of Odin, right?)
 
 
EmberLeo
08:21 / 02.01.07
(Also they were basically priestesses of Odin, right?)

Human Valkyries would be, I suppose. And/or Freya. Both make some sense, depending on how you look at it.

I have a thought that what they may have been forbidding was women to be mercinaries.

--Ember--
 
 
EmberLeo
08:25 / 02.01.07
[Sepparate post for my own question]

I've just found out that I'm most likely not going to get an opportunity I was anticipating to honor Damballa and Aida Wedo. Now, I have other resources, but you folks usually make me think from shiny angles I wouldn't otherwise have considered, so I'm asking here too:

Does anybody have any suggestions or input on how I should go about honoring Damballa and Aida Wedo, specifically? What They'd like on Their altar? Appropriate offerrings? Other stuff entirely?

--Ember--
 
 
StarWhisper
19:26 / 04.01.07
I was walking near a guy in the street and there seemed something a tad strange about him. He was clearly, or had clearly been a drug addict at some point- judging by the pock marks and amputation.
He wasn't nauseating to look at- or disfigured terribly despite a missing arm, but looking at him I began to feel a bit ill and weird. So I got some distance between him and myself, but it was still all that I could do to stop myself throwing up right there and then.
Am I posting in the right place? Can anybody explain why this happened?
 
 
Char Aina
19:28 / 04.01.07
what was your first thought as to why that happened?
 
 
StarWhisper
20:06 / 04.01.07
I didn't really think about it until it was over- but initially the nautious feelings had risen out of a kind of sadness I guess- I was not upset by this person but I wanted him to be o.k.
As if I cared a bit too much and crossed a line-or that is was wrong in some way I don't know how to express - how or why I thought that I don't know. But that is what came into my mind just after this happened.

That is how I felt at the time, as best as I can explain right now, although I had the strong impression it was something about this interaction that caused me to feel ill.

Is that any help at all?
 
 
StarWhisper
20:08 / 04.01.07
...but something more than that, although I don't know what.
 
 
EmberLeo
22:40 / 04.01.07
It could simply have been empathy. Whether you consider that psychological or spiritual is a personal thing, I suppose. I think the nature of the thing itself isn't what makes the difference, but how you conceptualize and handle it.

So if you look at it from the perspective of an interaction with his energy, and want to know if you should cleanse or shield yourself better to avoid being so overwhelmed, perhaps that's a spiritual question.

If you're just trying to figure out how your body reacted so strongly to something that was effectively an interaction of the mind, that's primarily psychological.

--Ember--
 
 
StarWhisper
10:28 / 05.01.07
Well, I guess that not really understanding the second paragraph you wrote I'd lean towards psychological. If you could explain it that would be great.

Although I've never (and am loath to have) discussed my personal beliefs thus far, I wouldn't have posted in the temple if I didn't think there was something significant in this event.

Differentiating between spiritual/psychological might be more useful if I knew how to conceptualise this better, which is where the difficulty lies. I can up to a point, but beyond that all I know is there a 'missingness' in my knowledge about something that had a fundamental 'wrongness' about it.

Bearing that in mind, whatever took place in my brain must have been subconscious. Which makes understanding it a mean feat.

Maybe it was empathy? Although empathy never made me ill. I'm a bit wary about pinning to much on to what I felt as an afterthought as I feel I'm framing something very hard to explain with words that just don't cut it, understandably misinterpreting it. Perhaps looking for a reason or an explanation is unnecessary,

and I should let this alone?

hmmm.
 
 
Ticker
15:24 / 05.01.07
well it seems to have mattered to you while it was happening, and disturbed you. Most folks would be curious about what was stimulating the reaction so at least they could avoid it in the future. Or perhaps the enquiry will reveal something about yourself you did not know before.

Up to you if you wish to poke it with a stick or not.

I find that parts of my subconscious resonate with things that aren't on the surface. The stimuli isn't obvious and takes some time to sift through.

I've had strong emotional reactions to beer commericials only to realize later it was the music being used that was triggering the response. I've had reactions to people only to later discover they wore the same deoderant/perfume as someone I know. Architecture, lighting, numerous things can shift us, let alone when you start looking into occult/spiritual reasons.

I'd suggest you detail as much of the event as possible in a journal so you can refer back to it if it occurs again.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
19:17 / 05.01.07
I'm not sure if I am going to phrase this correctly, but it has been on my mind lately.

Is Faith (capital F) needed in order to lead a magical or spiritual life?

Or, to unpack a little, if I wanted to communicate with entities beyond humanity do I need to buy into the historical mythologies of those entities?

Of late my faith in a creator deity or any real 'higher power' has slipped. I don't want to worship or pray to someone or something that has not done anything for me, and with my lack of faith in a creation story I don't feel I owe anything to these entities I read about on Barbelith or elsewhere. Alternatively I don't plan on asking for anything for free, I am really more interested in a dialog.

Is this sort of thing even possible? I understand that ritual is ritual because it is what worked in the past, but is there any way around it?

I suppose I want to get an idea of the larger universe without sacrificing my personal feeling of freedom from worship, if that makes any sense.
 
 
EvskiG
20:31 / 05.01.07
Is Faith (capital F) needed in order to lead a magical or spiritual life?

I'm reluctant to feed a new atheism thrash, but I'd say no.

Personally, I came to magic by way of psychedelics, reality hacking, and metaprogramming, none of which required any belief in a god or gods.

While some might disagree, I believe that my two favorite religiously-rooted systems (raja yoga and zazen) also don't require any particular beliefs before you start working.

Even Crowley and his heirs offer plenty of useful magical and mystical practices that don't require any particular belief. (Liber Jugorum is the first that comes to mind.)

Just do the practices, observe the results, and draw your own conclusions.

Or, to unpack a little, if I wanted to communicate with entities beyond humanity do I need to buy into the historical mythologies of those entities?

That's different, and trickier.

(A post by Two-Headed Rude Boy on the nature of entity work stopped my magical practice in its tracks for more than a year while I tried to get a handle on the subject.)

I'd say no, but it helps.

Other people probably have a better-informed view.

Of course, you don't necessarily have to seek contact with religious entities such as gods, angels, or demons. You also could seek contact with alien intelligences, people from the far future, literary creations, or your "higher self." Surprisingly enough, if you put enough effort into calling them they often come.

Check out Crowley's Liber Astarte and improvise.

I suppose I want to get an idea of the larger universe without sacrificing my personal feeling of freedom from worship, if that makes any sense.

Makes sense to me, and I think it's perfectly doable.
 
 
EmberLeo
20:41 / 05.01.07
I understand that ritual is ritual because it is what worked in the past, but is there any way around it?

Well, "ritual" is pretty vague, all things considered. You can probably get around using the specific rituals of various religions pretty easily, but it's possible you'll still need some kind of ritual, because you still have a human brain to work with, and the human brain responds to ritual. Then, also, if you invent your own, you're likely to be using bits and pieces of existing ritual language, because that same human brain is very associative.

Do you need to buy into the specific mythology behind the Identities it applies to? I'm not sure how you'd know who you were talking to for certain if you didn't at least allow for the option of a background check. It makes it harder to get to know the Identity you're trying to make friends with, but it doesn't make it impossible.

Mostly what gets me, though, is that I see no reason at all why starting from scratch would make you more free from obligation. Structure isn't the only thing that's binding. Relationships have behavioral standards to them as well. They may be standards that are easily fulfilled just by being yourself, so you never notice, but the same is often true of getting involved in a religion that is highly compatible with your culture.

--Ember--
 
 
electric monk
20:45 / 05.01.07
Is Faith (capital F) needed in order to lead a magical or spiritual life?

Or, to unpack a little, if I wanted to communicate with entities beyond humanity do I need to buy into the historical mythologies of those entities?

I don't think you need to have Faith (as related to Religion) at the outset, but a little faith (as related to trust) helps. You'll need to have faith during your dialogues. Faith that the process is working, that you're really, truly talking to whatever you're attempting to talk with. Be as sceptical as you like afterwards, but do write down what you experienced and what was said. Analyze those writings. Then decide if it was bullshit or not.


Of late my faith in a creator deity or any real 'higher power' has slipped. I don't want to worship or pray to someone or something that has not done anything for me, and with my lack of faith in a creation story I don't feel I owe anything to these entities I read about on Barbelith or elsewhere. Alternatively I don't plan on asking for anything for free, I am really more interested in a dialog.

Is this sort of thing even possible? I understand that ritual is ritual because it is what worked in the past, but is there any way around it?

It sounds reasonable enough to me. In my limited experience, gods don't seem to want you to sign on the dotted line right away just to talk to them. However, setting up a ritual space dedicated to them IS a sign of respect and of your seriousness about what you're doing, and so is probably a good idea. Again, a little faith during the proceeding and note-making and scepticism after. And don't ask for anything, other than the dialogue itself. Be satisfied with that for a start.

As far as getting "around it".... Well, good question. My first instinct is to tell you that you really can't expect those kinds of results without a long-term relationship with your god of choice. As I said, this is coming from limited experience, so perhaps someone else will pick me up on that and set us both straight.

I suppose I want to get an idea of the larger universe without sacrificing my personal feeling of freedom from worship, if that makes any sense.

I'm not sure dialoging with divinity is the best way to go about that. Is there a reason you want to start at god-work and not, say, meditation?
 
  

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