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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

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My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

18:43 / 01.11.06

Hmm. One approach might be to redefine what you mean when you think "nature". As someone else said, there is quite a bit of urban shamanism these days. The spirit of New York has kicked my ass more than once, though I think I'm starting to get an idea how to work with it more positively. There are many animals who are at home in cities these days - rats, pigeons, roaches, ants, lots more. And, of course, the albino alligators in the sewers.

Also, do you need to be "alone and in nature" to meditate? A still room works for lots of people.

Then again, I can't tell you what's going to feel right and/or work for you. As for your bad luck finding an animal so far - it almost sounds like you have some kind of a block going on - for one thing, maybe, that you're not entirely happy living in boston. In any event, be wary of predeciding, even a little bit, that something isn't going to work out for you, because you'll tend to be right. Or maybe you just need to try a different book.

If the animal spirit suggestion was what called to you then you should go for it. I wonder if some animal hasn't already been trying to get hold of you - try analyzing dreams, weird cooincidences, strong feelings about this or that animal, etc. Often with these things what works out happening is not You deciding to work with entity X, but entity X deciding to work with you, sometimes whether or not you like it. Prepare to be humbled and/or have your preconceptions knocked around.

Anyway - I suggested finding an animal or other spirit guide as a way to get to know yourself - as in, realizing that Squirrel or Spider or whoever wants to work with you might give you some hints about who you are that you weren't noticing or admitting. However it may be that before you can even get started on a finding-your-animal quest you need to do some introspection. What is it you're hoping to get out of this magic business anyway? What are you expecting it to do for you? What exactly do you think the word "magic" means? Why do you want to find out stuff this way and not some other way? Who, by the way, are you anyway and where do you come from? These questions are not trivial and you may never answer them, but thinking about it might get you started.

18:49 / 01.11.06

Should I become one of these people may I choke on my own "spirit"-induced vomit. I've seen that, and really don't care for it. To me spirituality is not just about what one can see, but what one can feel and communicate with regardless of drugs or no drugs.

pants brigade:

I've read what you said and thought briefly. I think that you are right in that I must accept what is around me as a jumping-off point. I appreciate the words of advice.

18:52 / 01.11.06

Mr Austin- your first name isn't Stone Cold Steve is it?

19:30 / 01.11.06

Oh no. It is actually an English translation of the name I was boring with: Agustin. I am Colombian but was raised in America.

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

20:01 / 01.11.06

I've read what you said and thought briefly. I think that you are right in that I must accept what is around me as a jumping-off point. I appreciate the words of advice.

You're very welcome...anyway it's all just suggestions, I'm no expert.

22:02 / 01.11.06

If this is still the place to ask stupid questions,

I'm planning on buying the 2.99 Lucid Dreaming book, and looking into a local shop on Boylston St. about shamanism or something similar. Does anyone have any recommendations? I only ask with urgency because the store closes at 7.

22:14 / 01.11.06

Mircea Eliade, 'Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy'

22:24 / 01.11.06

Isn't Mircea Eliade seen as slightly rightwing and dodgy these days?

22:43 / 01.11.06

And people can view that last post as a stupid question.

What are peoples views on Mircea Eliade?

08:53 / 02.11.06

Like Jung and Campbell, you might not agree with everything he writes but you have to be aware of what he writes, IMHO. There were a few accusations of anti-semitism but I think they're rubbish.

trouser the trouserian

09:38 / 02.11.06

Eliade's such a complex figure there's no 'easy' answer IMO. His work can be critiqued on a number of levels, yet there is also much of value in them. For example, he was critical of the enthocentricity displayed by earlier anthropologists (such as Tylor):

"...the ‘exotic’ and ‘primitive’ peoples have now come within the orbit of history, so that Western man is obliged to enquire into their systems of values if he is to be able to establish and maintain communication with them...We have to approach the symbols, myths and rites of the Oceanians or the Africans...with the same respect and the same desire to learn that we have devoted to Western cultural creations, even when those rites and myths reveal ‘strange’, terrible or aberrant aspects." (Dreams, Myths and Mysteries)

See this paper for a sympathetic assessment of Eliade's political involvement with the Iron Guard in pre-WW2 Romania.

Eliade's Shamanism has been critiqued by a number of scholars investigating modern "neo-shamanism" - see for example this interview with Daniel Noel - also Ronald Hutton's Shamans: Siberian Spirituality and the Western Imagination - due to his tendency to present shamanism in ahistorical, univeralised terms. Bob Trubshaw's Overview of Mythological Theory also contains some trenchant criticicisms of Eliade's approach to myths.

Hugh Urban, in Tantra: Sex, Secrecy, Politics and Power in the Study of Religion (UCP 2003) provides a quick summary of Eliade's view of Tantra and suggests that Eliade's "reactionary and antimodernist ideals" influenced his scholarly method. Urban posits that a central theme in Eliade's work is a "nostalgia for the archaic".

23:52 / 05.11.06

Could someone please explain to me the difference between astral travel and/or projection and an OBE?

I've had OBEs in the past, with the whole floating-moving about and meeting interesting entities experience, and had always assumed that was astral projection.

But when I come across references to astral temples and such, it sounds like something someone is reaching via meditation or deep trance. Is this an astral experience as well?

And as long as I'm being stupid...what then is the astral plane?

07:30 / 06.11.06

OBE's are awarded by the Queen but I don't think she has much to do with astral travel.

I would say that OBE's are accidental and short lasting, often taking place spontaneously. Astral travel is specific, premeditated, planned and longer lasting. Astral projection/travel is quite often associated with lucid dreaming and trances, and some mystical religions, but really I don't think there is too much difference between them. If you are chipping about meeting entities and the like then you are probably one of a lucky few who is astral travelling, it depends whether you can do it on command or not. Can you?

The astral plane is where everyone who is brilliant at astral travel meets and plots on how to save the world for the rest of teh foolish sheeple.

A much better and less facetious explanation of all this is available on Wikipedia, under Astral projection, Out of body experience and Astral Plane. Wikipedia is your friend.

07:52 / 06.11.06

Personally, I think the astral plane is a load of fucking cobblers. Never has a more spurious and ill-defined term attracted such a lot of blinkered, mystical wanketywank.

Think of it firstly as your visual imagination. Experiment with this. You can factor in other explanations in should you have any experiences which contradict this simple definition.

12:49 / 06.11.06

I think I agree with you Pegs. A lot of stuff magically could be ascribed to visual imagination so I suppose the question is whether that makes it any less real?

Unconditional Love

13:37 / 06.11.06

Surely astral planes take off from astral air ports, never on time, full of irate queing demons, waiting to be served by angels as they sit in cramped seating, next to screaming imps and many bloated devils of greed.

They always have destinations to a variety of areas of hell, that all try to emphasise there own individual appeal, but the only heaven your reallly get is your own trip back to your safe little corner of hell where you can safely exercise all your own demons.

Astral turbulence is the worst.

Unconditional Love

13:41 / 06.11.06

In the link above, what seemed like the best place to start, sloppy smelly new age bollox aside, were the references to the astral plane in hinduism, which may, but i dont know, have a more consistant approach to experience in this area.

13:57 / 06.11.06

Y: You've flown with Easyjet then?

I'm not aware of any references to the astral plane in Hinduism, though there's lots of stuff that could be ripped out of context, and then taken as supporting the notion.

I was being a bit harsh in my criticisms above. I don't want to stamp all over anyone's enthusiasm.... but I think it's a very dubious term. I think "visual imagination" is a useful starting point. From there, you experiment. Most explantions start from somewhere near to home and go gradually furhter afield. One can ask oneself well, with regard to that experience, did I communicate with my internal representions of things? My subconscious? Jungian archetypes? Information/entities whatever, external to me. ? Something else entirely?

14:28 / 06.11.06

HPoP - If you are chipping about meeting entities and the like then you are probably one of a lucky few who is astral travelling, it depends whether you can do it on command or not. Can you?

No, it was just as you described - spontaneous, and usually in that liminal sleep/wake stage. The only thing I eventually learned to do was stop them from happening when they'd start up. It made me uncomfortable because there was usually this black butterfly-like thing (yes, I realize how cheesy that sounds...sorry) waiting for me - but I could never remember where I went with the darn thing. I would just be back in my body.

It was a long time ago, but whatever that entity was came back to me recently in a really intense lucid dream. So I was toying with the idea of trying to get them to start up again. Maybe with some sort of auto-suggestion, I dunno.

Thank you for the links. Wikipedia and I are fairly well-aquainted, but I've grown a bit tired of it. I've been craving the advice and experiences of actual individuals lately. And besides, you all are just as smart if not smarter - and loads better with the clever, ironic snark.

Pegs - Think of it firstly as your visual imagination. Experiment with this. You can factor in other explanations in should you have any experiences which contradict this simple definition.

I admit I'm much more comfortable with this idea, if only because I found the OBEs to be a little intense. But then with creative imagination, it does seem to become a question of 'did I just do something "real" or was that just an exercise in wishful thinking?'. Does it even matter - I don't know.

I have been curious for a while about this notion of the astral plane being some actual destination. Sounded a bit fantastic. I'm thinking it's probably more nuanced than some Hollywood idea of a party in the astral plane.

Thanks for your help, everyone. I've had my nose pressed to the glass of the Temple for a while, so it's nice to be here. This has been a wild year for me, so I'm glad to have the chance to talk with people who not only know their stuff, but are very grounded as well. Not to mention snarky. Love teh snark.

19:14 / 06.11.06

But then with creative imagination, it does seem to become a question of 'did I just do something "real" or was that just an exercise in wishful thinking?'. Does it even matter - I don't know.

Certain stuff has leapt out at me in visualisations and so on, and this has been connected with dreams etc. This makes it seem real to me. Not in an "external" sense but in a "vivid and meaningful" way.

Unconditional Love

21:40 / 06.11.06

Anybody know if there were classical elements in ancient egypt? and if so what they were or may have been. I ask becuase i have been involved in a devotional practice for the last month and have used my own familiar placements both on the altar and on my body, but i really would like to employ a more approximate representation to ancient egypt than my current practice.

22:17 / 06.11.06

I will ask my Kemetic friends.

--Ember--

Unconditional Love

09:36 / 07.11.06

Cheers

10:23 / 07.11.06

I've not seen much in the way of classical element stuff in ancient egypt so far, at least not before the Ptoloemaic period. A lot of modern practitioners acsribe the elements to the four sons of Horus as there is considerable evidence that these deities (and the four Godesses connected to them) were seen as Guadians of the compass points. The magical act of 'encircling'was wildly used. In archaic times these deities were human in form but later became animal headed. They were also connected to the Canopic jars that held the viscera during mummification. They were...

Qebehsenuf - East - Falcon - Connected with the intestines and the Scorpian Goddess Serket.

Duamutef - North - Jackal - Connected with the Stomach and the Goddess Neit.

Imsety - West - Human - Connected with the Liver and the Goddess Auset.

Haapi - South - Baboon -Connected with the Lungs and the Goddess Neb-Het.

It makes sense to incorporate the elements into ritual along these lines as many people do.

10:46 / 07.11.06

So that may be...

Qebehsenuf - East - Fire
Duamutef - North - Earth
Imsety - West - Air
Haapi - South - Water

Is that what you were asking about Classical Elements Yahnaapaw? Or did you mean something else?

Also Nebt-Hwt is a nearer approximation phonetically that Neb-Het.

12:11 / 07.11.06

In my efforts to know the Goddess Cotytto, I have been instructed to examine Her name more, as I used Kappa and the Phoenician Kaph (for my own ancestral purposes) as a seed syllable to manifest Her. (I will write about the full pathworking in the Homework thread soon.)

So, here is my stupid question: Cotytto, which looks rather like KOXYXXO, (hugs and kisses!) in the Phoenician alphabet, (except the "k" symbol is backwards). I am wondering in the corresponding Greek, since this is all greek to me, (I couldn't resist!), if the use of both the o's in "Cotytto" are considered to be omicron or omega, or both?

12:30 / 07.11.06

"Tonight I'm all alone in my room
I'll go insane if you won't sleep with me
I'll still be with you
I'm gonna meet you on the astral plane
The astral plane for dark at night
The astral plane or I'll go insane
...
Well we've known each other from other lives
I want to see you today
But I'll prove my knowledge of what's inside
When I intercept you on the astral plane
The astral plane for late at night
The astral plane or I'd go insane

Alright"

(Jonathan Richman & The Modern Lovers)

Unconditional Love

23:04 / 08.11.06

Thank you armed with madness thats exactly what i wanted to know. Giant hugs.

Unconditional Love

23:17 / 08.11.06

One more thing could you perhaps suggest a good book to read to begin practicing egyptian ritual and magic, i have my own devotion at present but i am looking to explore as many possibilities as possible.

09:23 / 09.11.06

Sure Yahnaapaw. I'll recommend a few.

A good Egyptological introduction is Magic in Ancient Egypt by Geraldine Pinch. This has recently been republished and is pretty cheap and easy to get hold of. A more scholarly book on the subject, and as such pretty pricey and hard to get hold of, is the utterly great Mechanics of Ancient Egyptian Magical Practice by Robert Kriech Ritner. I love this book, Spitting, Licking, Swallowing, Rope work, Execration texts, Human Sacrifice, Knives, Words, Trampling its all in there! It's generally seen as the most up to date study on the subject in English but as it's a scholarly work it does assume a knowledge of hieroglyphs and theory. Still loads to get out of it.

As to books on modern day practice there isn't that much good stuff out there. There is a huge amount of rubbish though, mostly watered down Golden Dawn stuff dunked in buckets of new age juice. Exceptions are two books published by Rosemary Clark The Sacred Magic of Ancient Egypt and The Sacred Tradition in Ancient Egypt. Whilst these books are slightly new agey (published by Llewellyn for heavens sake!) and are very Hermetic in their outlook and being influenced by R.A.S de Lubicz (not really my thing) there is some fantastic stuff in there (the magic one in particular for building a practice).

The London based Temple of Khem have published a few books with their practice being based around Melusine Dracos Liber Aegyptus which is ok-ish. They do publish, however, two books by Billie Walker-John, The Inner Guide to Egypt and The Setian, which are great.

Mogg Morgans books Tankhem and Bull of Ombos are well worth a read as well.

One last thing if you are thinking building an Egyptian practice is that i really recommend putting in the hours to learning Middle Egyptian hieroglyphs. I'm not saying that its essential but it really does open up the whole practice and you get so much more insight, and passion(and fun!) out your relationships. I'm doing a course at the moment which, as it's working from Gardiners Grammar,is pretty heavy and flying by, but a great introduction is How to Read Egyptian Hieroglyphs by Mark Collier.

11:28 / 09.11.06

There is a ghost in my friend's apartment. I was skeptical and trying to figure out where the noises were coming from, but it is apparent that there is definately an entity in at least one room of her place. She is terrified and I have tried to calm her down so she doesn't feed her fear. I must admit, I rather panicked when I heard the thing mimic breathing. My friend has heard it whistle while she was playing the guitar. I tried to find reasonable ideas as to what else this could be. She lives in a triplex co-op and knows all her neighbours quite well. They were all asleep as it was one in the morning. The music/voices/breathing got louder and louder till the breathing could be heard by both of us in the room and not just in the walls. It was bizarre.

Anyway, advice would be appreciated as I am going to help her remove the spirit. Any tips would be appreciated.

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

11:41 / 09.11.06

Why?

Whistling while she plays guitar? Breathing?

Hardly 'the Exorcist', is it?

Stop freaking the poor bugger out. The incarnate are so...incarnocentric. Perhaps a medium? Visit a local spiritualist church and find out who is the most senior medium, gauge them for yourselves, invite them round for a sitting.

Might be a guide, a family member, an ancestor. Why reach for the banishing stick before you've even established what's going on?

12:00 / 09.11.06

Exactly. No, it is not the exorcist, but does it have to be? She is freaked out and doesn't want to share the space with a weird heavy-breather from the netherworld. Personally, I do not have a problem with the entity and I would like to do this in a way that is not upsetting to either the enitiy or my friend. If there is a way to find out if something we can help the entity with, but she just wants it to move on.

She is a highly sensitive sort that I can just think of needing to talk to and suddenly she has called me. She picks up on things, anyway.

12:07 / 09.11.06

Oh, the thing that really freaks her out is that the entity is in her bedroom. She says she wouldn't be so freaked out if it was in another room. Maybe there is some way to lure the ghost to another room and make her bedroom off limits?

12:29 / 09.11.06

well I'd suggest a two level approach.

the first is a neutral cleansing ritual not aimed at anything specific just a general blessing and bringing in of protective energies. If the Entity is still hanging out after that it may indicate that it is not a baddy and worthy of some other approach.

If you get to this point it is important to ask the resident (human) of the space if they have had these experiences before elsewhere, what the history of the space is, what was going on when the manifestation started in their lives.

Divination is a wonderful guide for this sort of thing just be aware of your own prejuidices regarding already being scared.

IMO these events usually happen to people who really need them to happen in order to wake up an aspect of themselves. Perhaps they have been neglecting or never developed a spiritual POV. Perhaps they doubted if these things exist or if there were magical scary things in the world. Best way to view it these things happen very much so for a reason. It isn't quite the same randomness as when you get the cockroach in the kitchen because your neighbor has 'em.

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