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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

  
  

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Papess
13:02 / 09.11.06
Good idea, a neutral cleansing. I do not want to upset it at all. It really isn't a nuisance, but it is freaky to sleep in a room with an entity playing weird music (it sounds like several different radio stations playing at the same time) and heavy breathing.

She doesn't feel she knows the spirit, although she has had experiences before with dead people she has known. I think you may be on to something about this being a wake up call, xk, as she has undeveloped skills that she needs to learn how to live with. She is open to these things, so that helps.

Anyway, first I will try a simple cleansing and an divinatory inquiry about the spirit's situation if it is still there. Good ideas, both. Thank you, xk. It doesn't seem like an "evil" spirit. Maybe we can help it.
 
 
Ticker
13:09 / 09.11.06
I've worked with a few in my life feel free to PM if you want suggestions or just to discuss.
 
 
electric monk
15:01 / 09.11.06
Would it not be a good idea for the person in question to just lay down some ground rules with the spirit? Tell it in no uncertain terms that it is not welcome in the bedroom, and explain that the breathing and music stuff is freaking her out?*





*Framed as questions because I've never dealt with this type of situation myself. And I've watched too many episodes of 'Ghost Hunters'.
 
 
Ticker
17:37 / 09.11.06
it might or it might make things worse. some manifestations really should be ignored outwardly while research happens elsewhere as to the cause. Many manifestations are merely echos and have no 'beingness' to interact with at all. Some are projections of the human resident(s) own self or as mentioned upthread things which are attached to them.

Music and noisy breathing go in the annoyance pot not automatically into the dangerous needs intervention pot.

something I've seen a bit is you get a weird occurance happening, people get worked up, bust out the ouija and other Entities show up at the party making a bigger weirder mess. Especially included in this is the humans' own subconscious using it as an excuse to get up to high drama and scare themselves silly. Move away from the direction of reenacting your favorite poltergiest movie and towards the we all have unusual roommates concept.

Best bet is to put a nice blanket of calm 'these things do happen' protection in the person's sleeping room. Let it chill for a bit and then from that place of calm safety let the resident human decide if they feel like talking to the Radio Announcer Ghost. It's really not a moral obligation to poke these things with sticks when having a cup of tea will do just fine.
 
 
Papess
18:08 / 09.11.06
...people get worked up, bust out the ouija and other Entities show up at the party making a bigger weirder mess.

I would like to avoid this, most definately. Upon my initial realization that I was indeed hearing someone? something? and there wasn't just a logical explination, I took three large steps back very quickly. I realized that my panicking would not be very helpful to my friend, (or the situation) and I made myself get calm - pronto! I believe that escalating emotional states would only be more attractive to "spirits" or these types of entities.

We want to approach this with care. I have given her some sage to gently smudge her room. She is going to communicate her wishes to the entity and we will see what happens from there. She can always come over here again, if she is too freaked.

There is something strange going on there, but I don't believe the spirit to be malicious. As Dead pointed out, it is just breathing and whistling a tune.

Something I did mention to her also, is that she may be projecting and manifesting this with her own mind. She is a natural lucid dreamer, maybe there are other latent abilities that she has.
 
 
Ticker
18:15 / 09.11.06
I'll put my butt out on the line and say 75% of these things are human generated or attached to the humans experiencing them.

The perception of the humans experiencing the events and the space are the critical part of the process.
 
 
Hawthorn
02:02 / 12.11.06
okay here goes,

If say hypothetically you're communicating with something/one
how do you know if it is external to yourself or some sort of internal aspect or personality or your unconscious or something?
 
 
electric monk
03:08 / 12.11.06
First and foremost, you need to be able to step back from the emotional charge of the communications. I say this because it's easy, and sometimes tempting, to assign cause and meaning to things that may not be what they seem at first glance. Once you've got a little time and distance between yourself and the event, you'll be in a better position to evaluate what you've experienced.

From there, it's a matter of looking over what's happened honestly and determining what could have originated internally. Are you writing down the messages/conversations? If not, do so. It makes it easier to flow with the event and dissect it later. And dissect you should. Go into those transcripts (or back thru your memories of the event) with the goal of debunking. What sounds like your phrasing? Are these messages things you want to hear or have wished for? Be ruthless about this. If you're contacting a spirit or god who's well-known, do some research on them. Find out what they're like and how they are reported to act. Compare your experience with those of others.

Asking for a small physical sign from the something/one isn't a bad idea either. Keep your requests respectful and there shouldn't be a problem. If you work with a divination system, you'll want to consult that as well, natch.
 
 
Hawthorn
12:22 / 12.11.06
I've got reams of written material. Like a year's worth. I wish I'd asked this sooner. Thanks
 
 
electric monk
19:14 / 12.11.06
I've got reams of written material. Like a year's worth.

That's frickin' awesome. Let us know what you find!
 
 
illmatic
09:55 / 13.11.06
If say hypothetically you're communicating with something/one how do you know if it is external to yourself or some sort of internal aspect or personality or your unconscious or something?

Does it mattter? What's important is that you get something out of the communciation surely. I only say that because it's a question you can never answer to your complete satisfaction.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:00 / 13.11.06
Kind of 'what they said.' Especially this: If you're contacting a spirit or god who's well-known, do some research on them. Find out what they're like and how they are reported to act. Compare your experience with those of others and Pegs' comments.

F'rexample--say someone reckons she is in communication with Kali, and most of what Kali says is regarding Keith from the mail-room who's just dumped her and what a wrong'un Keith is and how she could do much better than Keith, it is unlikely to be Kali doing the talking. If Jesus is telling you to burn down an orphanage and machine-gun the survivours, it's not Jesus. I'm not saying that such beings never act in ways that are surprising or unexpected, but They do have a certain core character and won't deviate too much from it.

But Pegs nails it when he says that you're never going to be 100% certain. I mean, I've had all kinds of odd and inexplicable things happen during my work with various entities, but I can construct more than one hypothesis as to what's going on which would fit the facts. Maybe I'm creating these events with the Powaaar of my Mind; maybe it's a completely different spirit who's decided to mess with me; maybe I'm having a freak formation of midlife crisis and I've dreamed the whole thing up. In the end you have to pick the interpretation that makes most sense to you and go with that.
 
 
illmatic
11:50 / 13.11.06
Yeah. Totally in agreement with Mordant.

Jst because something comes from your subconscious*, does that devalue it in any way? I tend to think of my dreams as coming from my subconscious. It doesn't mean that I don't some pretty powerful insights from recording and studying them. The key thing is - I guess - that whatever communcication you get produces insight, acts as a spur to action, or is emotional compelling in some way.

*What is the "subconscious" anyway? What's hidden under that simple phrase? Do we really understand it?
 
 
Ticker
12:39 / 13.11.06
after all the great advice posted so far the only offering I have is about the sacred function of doubt.

wondering what's signal and what's noise (add to that bin: delusion and fantasy) I find it is really important to respect the moments when you question who or what is informing your choices. On one hand you have people who truly are in communication with all sort of signals, on the other you have people creating satisfying mini-LARPs for themselves and then forget or ignore this fact.

Now I'm not putting the second group down but rather pointing out the danger of when we stop being critical and stop questioning who or what is telling us to under take an action. The choice to act will always remain ours but it does become confusing when the signal tells you there is this great Purpose you must participate in. Could be 100% truth could be 65% truth and a mix of frosting to sugar coat the hard work, or it could be 100% not true at all or anywhere on that spectrum.

Mordant's advice upstream about matching your supposed signal source to the message is a very important starting point. Having a strong developed sense of ethics is essential for then making choices about what to do with the message even if you think you have verified the source. You will always be responsible for your actions.

It's a hard and difficult task sometimes filtering out our own wish fufilment generators and you have to remember humility is a shield against being taken advantage of. Many of us feel cherished and loved by our signal sources but it is imperative to remember that we are not better or more important than any other living thing just because if the exchange. If a signal sources tells you otherwise remember your fairytales and watch out for the scam.

Time and again I have met people who have taken a few very intense experiences and built an entire cosmology out of them. With some of these people I can only say I believe 100% in their chosen reality and that their experiences really are what they say they are. However the majority of people I have met have stopped verifying or never bothered to check how much of their signal is from their own wish fufilment of self importance. Doubting and questioning as a constant does not cancel out or diminsh faith, rather it is treating the sacred communication with a high enough degree of respect to take the time and process it.
 
 
Quantum
13:42 / 13.11.06
Time and again I have met people who have taken a few very intense experiences and built an entire cosmology out of them.

Sometimes the intense experiences of other people that they thought sounded cool.
 
 
Ticker
14:01 / 13.11.06
isn't that a straight ticket to LARP-religion?
 
 
Hawthorn
15:29 / 13.11.06
See this is just it, I feel humiliated to believe for so long that what I've experienced was exactly what I took it to be. Now I haven't gone over the material yet because *ahem* I should be writing a paper at the moment.

Now I haven't hurt anybody or done anything other than invest a lot of time obsessing and researching, and made some perhaps rash promises. I just need some little verification for my own peace of mind. Because if this is the real deal I sort of have to rearrange some ideas about how I thought the universe worked, that such things are possible, etc. I understand I'm probably never going to be sure, but I need a bit of an idea. I suspect this is a mixture of at least a little bit of wishful thinking, if there's any "signal" at all in this.
 
 
Hawthorn
15:30 / 13.11.06
I've never been told I'm superior to other people because of this and I wouldn't believe it to hear it.
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:59 / 13.11.06
I will provide an example of sub conscious interaction, this morning i went to bed with an intense loathing of humanity, i mean really intense, when are those solar storms coming to extinct the species kind of rage, your all fucking pieces of shit, blah blah blah.

I had a dream which involved me apprehending a knife wielding junkies and his friends as they tried to attack me and my mother. I took them to a police station for processing, they were all charged. The knives were revealed to be pieces of paper cut into the shapes of knives.

I sat and had conversations with my guides/supporters.

I woke up feeling light and good and then got a phone call from an old friend. Now this dream definately changed something in me and had a very real message to give and put across, in fact it has changed my emotional state almost entirely in my relation to myself and the world around me.

The junkies were people i know, people that have a problem with me, i quite literally feel less of there presence around me, although i can still feel there relationships to me. The dream has had a real effect, especially at an emotional level. I think thats what matters, the communications real life effects, you cannot say with 100% proof that that has transpired, just as you cant with an nde or obe. What you can do is use the experiences to change and grow in what ever direction they take you.
 
 
Hawthorn
16:17 / 13.11.06
What is an nbe and obe?

Well Ive asked for physical proof and got some. Feeling a little spooked now.
 
 
Ticker
16:35 / 13.11.06
See this is just it, I feel humiliated to believe for so long that what I've experienced was exactly what I took it to be. Now I haven't gone over the material yet because *ahem* I should be writing a paper at the moment.

uh, where's the humilation coming from exactly? that you took it on faith? There isn't anything wrong about that and I haven't seen anyone in this thread say there was. You're obviously questioning and curious or else I dare well think you wouldn't have asked a bunch of folks on the interwebbies for input.

Well Ive asked for physical proof and got some. Feeling a little spooked now.

Yeah it's funny, we worry that we're making it all up in our heads and yet when we get evidence to contrary the world seems much freakier. Remember to say 'thank-you' if you haven't yet.
 
 
Ticker
16:36 / 13.11.06
NDE = near death experience
OBE = out of body experience
 
 
Unconditional Love
19:50 / 13.11.06
Its just occured to me that somebody who considered me an enemy for along period of time recently showed me a large series of sigils, Paper knives perhaps, but this is the point at which it becomes speculation, something to bear in mind thou.
 
 
Hawthorn
20:55 / 13.11.06
Thanks for sharing the dream by the way, its always fun when they have an obvious meaning(s) like that.

>Remember to say 'thank-you' if you haven't yet.

good point.

You've gotten the 1'000th post on this thread, xk

I've been reading over some of the material, which is cryptic and brief, The impression I get is a bit of gloating and sadistic and actually maybe a little flattering. The whole experience was with more emotional than anything really specific.
In the essence that I perceived the Entity in question seems wise, experienced and very patient, as well as sometimes kind of domineering, claustrophobic, expecting to get everything it wants, sexual, and kind of dark in a practical way, or practical in a dark way.

The lore I've found seems to match my impressions pretty well.
I think I just needed to go over the material again to weather this latest crisis of I guess faith. Thanks all for your help.
 
 
Ticker
00:44 / 14.11.06

You've gotten the 1'000th post on this thread, xk

thus earning my keep. and if Quants hears of this probably a jeep, or sheep, or fuzzy yellow peep.

ya, I dunno either.
 
 
Quantum
16:43 / 14.11.06
Sorry I was deep asleep, it would have been a *BLEEP* I think. Or a Quantum Leap.

the San Diego burner scene (diz in the globalgasm thread)

What's the burner scene? Something to do with the Burning Man festival?
 
 
electric monk
17:00 / 14.11.06
I assumed ze was referring to the local cannabis enthusiasts. Which could very well have something to do with Burning Man, I suppose.
 
 
Ticker
18:30 / 14.11.06
burners are Burning Man attendees/lifestyle.
 
 
Quantum
18:53 / 14.11.06
lifestyle What, like carrying your own weight in water around and setting fire to stuff? I could get into that.
 
 
Ticker
18:57 / 14.11.06
like Burners Without Borders.
 
 
Papess
14:02 / 15.11.06
Pardon me, these are more questions about the Temple Forum rather than actual Magicky stuff.

1. Would anyone mind if I start a thread on Cotyotto? I know I have been on about Her quite a bit lately, but I think She deserves Her own space.

2. Is there a Herbal thread? There is a lovely Potions 101, but I cannot find any thread specifically on various herbal properties, both medicinal and magickal - a Barbelith Herbal Compendium, of sorts. If there isn't one perhaps, starting one would be a good idea?

One last question: Does anyone remember that Bast comic book by Gaimen? Does anyone else feel that it was a bit crushing? I mean, I almost felt a tinge of religious persecution having been a devotee of Bastet (the goddess) for many years. I was just gutted after reading the series.
 
 
Ticker
14:28 / 15.11.06
re 1: I say go for it.
Better an educational thread on a Deity than another !!!MAJEK-REVOLT-SHUN!!!11!!!2323!!! thread.

re 2: I think we were using the potions thread for it. But maybe an old timer will know different.

re last question: No, but shit like that happens to me whenever I read fanatsy novels involving Celtic Deities. I still want to punch Kenneth c. Flint right in the fucking head for Cromm.
 
 
Papess
15:12 / 15.11.06
Thank you xk. That was enthusiastic. I will post a thread for Cotytto, as I doubt others would object. It will most likely be NSFWed, however. Use at your own discretion.

I am going to see if someone else can second the Herbal thread, or dig up an archived one before I post one.

And xk, I am sorry to read what that bad man, Mr.Flint, did to Cromm, even if I don't know the first thing of celtic deities.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:16 / 15.11.06
You think you've got problems.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
15:17 / 15.11.06
Herbal Thread
 
  

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