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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

  
  

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Gypsy Lantern
08:28 / 27.11.06
Sigils and sorcery are perhaps best thought of as mechanisms for the actualisation of your will and the proper growth and flowering of your intention. Your natural inclination towards a certain goal is more important than the act of sorcery, which could be seen as a lens through which you more clearly focus that inclination so that it ceases to be inclination and becomes something real, physical and tangible in the world. Magic does not take place within a vacuum, and you cannot seperate out an act of magic from a manifestation of your will. Think of it like a garden that you are cultivating. Some of the seeds that you plant will grow to fruition and some will fail. Operating sorcery is akin to focusing your attention on certain crops that you wish to cultivate, and making sure that they are properly fed and nourished so that they may come into being as healthy saplings on the tree of life that we are enmeshed within. Generally, the intentions that we focus magic towards most frequently are those circumstances that are not guaranteed to grow and develop in the way that we would most prefer or which would best serve our survival needs, so we focus "magic" on these areas to encourage proper, healthy growth of these aspects of our will that may be struggling to come to full fruition without our care and focus.
 
 
Ticker
13:43 / 27.11.06
do we have a Temple wall to hang that on? That was grand, concise, and lovely to read.


I've been brewing a thunderstorm in my head about the mystification of womanhood due to her reproductive role and how this is a dangerous Bad Thing when allowed to harden to dogma. Case in point:

The Bush administration has appointed a new chief of family-planning programs at the Department of Health and Human Services who worked at a Christian pregnancy-counseling organization that regards the distribution of contraceptives as "demeaning to women".


If a woman's sacred role is accessed ONLY through her ability to be a mother than it would follow that removing this option from her would be demeaning. On a secular level it reminds me of the ol' anti suffragette drivel about burdening women with the vote. I'm wondering in terms of the Temple and magical approaches how people are approaching sacred female Archetypes/Deities outside of the reproductive cycle.
 
 
Quantum
14:23 / 27.11.06
sacred female Archetypes/Deities outside of the reproductive cycle

The High Priestess, as opposed to the Empress. The Empress is the Mother archetype, mother nature, Gaia, the High Priestess has feminine mystery and intuition that make her powerful in her own right, not just in reference to creating and nurturing others. Although there is an element of sexuality to the card (e.g. the pomegranates on the veil behind her) she's not primarily reproductive, and is of course very sacred. Also notably in the major arcana, Strength, Temperance, the Star, the World...
 
 
Papess
16:55 / 27.11.06
The Bush administration has appointed a new chief of family-planning programs at the Department of Health and Human Services who worked at a Christian pregnancy-counseling organization that regards the distribution of contraceptives as "demeaning to women".

Oh brother. Or maybe OI should say, sister!


If a woman's sacred role is accessed ONLY through her ability to be a mother than it would follow that removing this option from her would be demeaning.

Yep, it would be. Unfortunately, the Bush Admin. never heard of Sophia, Artemis, Hestia or Athena. How about Saraswati, or Tara for that matter.

Enough has been done to try and divest women of any other value than mere baby-machines. Now, that we are starting to remember, (at least in some of western society), that women are actually capable of creating in many ways, (well, duh). These people want to set us back again, using feminist ideology as their strategy!? I hate it when people do that.

How many times do we have to tell them: The point is CHOICE, fuckwits!
 
 
EmberLeo
08:06 / 28.11.06
Is it just me, or does it make no bloody sense at all for somebody to tell a group they're not in what's demeaning to them when the members of that group dissagree?

--Ember--
 
 
EmberLeo
08:11 / 28.11.06
I have tried to catch myself out and done a few very specific spells for very specific goals and have no results yet.

The first thing that pops into my head is what the Magician from our last production of OLT said: "I need to free myself from the lust for results."

I believe it references the same idea my Dad taught me, that drove me nuts - that after I have finished a working, I must forget the work. I learned much later that I don't need to forget the work so much as release it.

If you're still actively waiting for results on those test sigils, you're still adding to the Will behind them, and probably changing the vector over and over every time you wonder if it will or won't work, and your faith in the work you've already done waxes and wanes.

Give up. Work on something else entirely.

The other thing is that I can't imagine bothering to do magic on something when I wasn't inclined to do all I could in a "mundane" sense as well. Is any effort towards your goals ever wasted?

--Ember--
 
 
Dutch
22:29 / 01.12.06
Stupid question:

If one is unsure of the quality of their own "good-naturedness", thereby meaning the essence (of personality/character) which is devoted to the cause of helping others and/or defeating that which causes harm to others, can one effectively try and heal people up close or from a distance?
 
 
EmberLeo
23:43 / 01.12.06
To clarify:

Are you asking if a person who is uncertain of themselves can or should heal others?

Are you asking if a person who is not a good person can or should heal others?

Are you asking if healing others is a good way to become a better or more certain person?

--Ember--
 
 
Papess
12:44 / 03.12.06
If one is unsure of the quality of their own "good-naturedness", thereby meaning the essence (of personality/character) which is devoted to the cause of helping others and/or defeating that which causes harm to others, can one effectively try and heal people up close or from a distance?

Phriar, it is a good question. Unfortunately, those who are truly "bad-natured", probably wouldn't want to help anyone, much less evaluate their own biases. Developing compassion is possible to do with every little act of kindness. One can practice being compassionate, of course! Most (if not all, in some way or another) Buddhist teachings, teach people how to practice this. It is known as "Bodhisattva training".

I think if you are uncertain of your motives, trying to send them good-will is a fine way to turn your mind towards being more understanding of them. But, for the love of all that is Divine, if you have concerns about your own nature, start slowly! Light a candle, say a prayer, send white light, ask a more capable deity to watch over them... Do something that is less likely to get your "other" emotions involved, and keep it to the point. Short and sweet.
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:22 / 03.12.06
Could anybody direct me to book contained information about the egyptian jackal god sed, i have exhausted all the online info, also anything that gives detailed information about seds role in the egyptian heb sed festival.

Also anything that explains the absorbtion of charcteristics between anubis, sed, wepwawet and khentamentiu (and perhaps duatumef) Jackal/wolf heads one and all.
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:32 / 03.12.06
Self trust is really difficult, especially if you know the part of you that tries to hurt others, but if you know that part of you and you have some idea of when you are acting from that place, i am guessing you will be fine.

Severity can also be an act of compassion, very rarely, but sometimes, trust the severity as much as you can trust the mercy, both go into a compassionate act, the discipline you bring to those acts can be judged by your own concentration and attention.

Its very rarely that i dont have mixed feelings, an approach would be to focus the killing instinct on what needs to be delt with and the mercyful healing element on what damage needs to be repaired.

Starting good natured acts is a great way to become good natured.
 
 
Dutch
19:45 / 03.12.06
as quoted: "I think if you are uncertain of your motives, trying to send them good-will is a fine way to turn your mind towards being more understanding of them. But, for the love of all that is Divine, if you have concerns about your own nature, start slowly! Light a candle, say a prayer, send white light, ask a more capable deity to watch over them... Do something that is less likely to get your "other" emotions involved"

This is good advice...thank you.
 
 
Papess
13:41 / 04.12.06
You are most welcome, Phriar - O' talented Bard of Barbelith!
 
 
alphito
19:30 / 05.12.06
do you pronounce the venerable egyptian fruit-paste incense "kiffy" or "kye-fee"? i'm not sure if i know anybody in 'real life' who's had cause to say the word out loud.
 
 
the permuted man
15:41 / 09.12.06
Hello all! I ramble a lot so apologies in advance. A kind Barbelith member instructed me some time ago that I should take more time thinking before posting and so I will type this, reread it, think about it, edit it, and then post.

I've been reading Barbelith for a long time but post rarely and have for a long time ignored the temple. Just recently I've gotten into magic -- this thread has helped a ton! (and the book recommendation threads) -- and have been scouring the threads in this forum.

I have a few questions right now:

1) Offerings. I've been working through Nancy B. Watson's Practical Solitary Magic and was looking for some help coming up with offerings for my deities. I performed the exercises in Appendix B with rather surprising results. I was expecting something which made sense from how I view myself, but found the results unexpected yet intensely potent and relevant.

I was surprised to find my "personal symbol" was a statue of Nike, as this seemed to already be a god symbol, but I kept working. For my "god symbol", Nike flew me up in the air, spun me around and dropped me in a lake. When I came out of the lake there was a bear. The bear was extremely protective, yet aloof, trusting/expecting me to deal with things on my own while being there for guardianship.

The bear seemed odd until I learned Artio, the Celtic bear goddess, is likely an aspect of Artemis and it made all too much sense for Nike to lead me there. I also learned Gwydion, the magician, is associated with the male aspect of Celtic bear cult. (I male identify is why I looked, though I have no issues following goddesses as such).

Now, I reach a problem. There's a wealth of information on how to offer to Artemis, but not a lot on Artio or Gwydion. Should I just pray to them and hope to discover more on what offerings they desire / expect or does anyone have suggestions on what they could be / where to look? Today I prayed to all four in different aspects and this seemed good, but I feel like I should offer more of myself than just time and attention.

2) Pacing. I go into things obsessively and tend to burn out. I think there's a strong Prince of Swords (in Crowely's Thoth) aspect to me. Recently my readings have suggested I'm trying to take on too much too quickly. What is the best way I can continue my magical / spiritual growth without biting off more than I can chew?

3) I understand a bit about the cards being living entities and having more faces than their dominant ones. I'm wondering if some cards take on special relevance for individuals (it seems obvious this would be the case, but...). Specifically, the Nike association makes me think Sevens, related to Netzach/Victory, might have special relevance to me. Yet Sevens are usually pretty negative cards. Should I pay special attention to them? When they are reversed? Today I'm going on a bit of a journey and drew a Seven of Swords for the final outcome and so this has rather immediate relevance.

4) Mixing. Because I've been trying to find my own way, I've been mixing a lot of different systems. Is this generally okay, desirable? I have in my head -- I'm sure I read somewhere -- that it's the American way after all. And I'm nothing if not American. I guess I should just pay attention to tension as some deities/systems clash with others?

Okay, that's good for now. Thanks for reading and for any advice you can give, or PM if you prefer.

Wow, I reread and it doesn't look like it needs editing (I hope).
 
 
Papess
17:14 / 09.12.06
Just on the point of offerings to Artio: This page may be helpful. Do a "ctrl F" for "Artio" for information more specific. The whole page pulls several different perspectives together, even though it starts out with a story of Milarepa, a Tibetan Jakata, and an interview with Reinhold Messner. Anyway, it it is comprehensive, at least.
 
 
Papess
17:17 / 09.12.06
Bah, I need to reread...

Anyway, the suggestion for an offering, would be fruit, preferably blueberries - if ya got 'em, (and/or possibly some salmon).
 
 
the permuted man
20:46 / 09.12.06
Electrix, I love you. Got some blueberries and blackberries--seems so obvious now, but I wasn't even thinking in the right direction.
 
 
Papess
21:10 / 09.12.06
Bear-ry good then!

Thanks for the love, Permuted Man. Back at ya.
 
 
electric monk
03:27 / 10.12.06
I'm wondering if some cards take on special relevance for individuals (it seems obvious this would be the case, but...).

I felt a sort of "kinship" with The Hanged Man when I first saw it, and I still feel connected to it in a way. So yeah, it does happen. You might want to spend some time with the Sevens exclusively. Use them as points of focus for meditations, spend a day with one of 'em on your person, etc. If you feel they deserve your attention, by all means give it. Esp. in the situation you've described.

Because I've been trying to find my own way, I've been mixing a lot of different systems. Is this generally okay, desirable?

Generally? Probably. Might I recommend, tho, that you get good and comfy with one system before you expand out? Find something that's close to the way you want to go and learn it. Practice it. Get a feel for it's strengths and weaknesses, what works for you and what doesn't. You can always mash-up after you've built the foundation.
 
 
EmberLeo
10:03 / 10.12.06
I think it's three different questions regarding mixing Magical models, mixing religious traditions, and mixing gods.

All three happen, of course, but the reasons for avoiding it differ. The main reason for avoiding magical models, IMHO, is primarily inconsistancy creating a potential for serious blind spots. The main reason I, personally, avoid mixing religious traditions is that it tends to upset and confuse the other humans I'm practicing with. The only reason I would avoid mixing gods, however, is if the gods in question minded being mixed.

--Ember--
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
13:27 / 10.12.06
Mixing. Because I've been trying to find my own way, I've been mixing a lot of different systems. Is this generally okay, desirable?

There's no straightforward yes or no answer to that question, really. The only way you will ever learn anything is by experimenting, jumping in, getting your hands dirty, maybe getting your fingers burned a few times, trying things, figuring out what works for you and what leaves you cold. Crowley calls this the "Probationer" grade in his A.'.A.'. system, where you try out a whole bunch of stuff to get a broad overview of magic.

But the thing to keep in mind is that everything you currently think you know about magic is likely to be turned on its head - over and over again - in the course of practising magic. It doesn't really pay to be too fixed or rigid in your beliefs about how this or that might fit together as a seamless whole. Your opinions on these things will tend to change in the light of new evidence gained through continued practice. Your job is to just keep practicing and let things take the course that they will as you progress and grow and change along with your magic.

However, ultimately its important to get a solid grounding in something or else you condemn yourself to a fairly superficial fly-by-night level of understanding of magic. The martial arts analogy stands up. If you spend two years sampling loads of different martial arts styles for a month or so at a time, you will have a good overview of how different schools approach the same problems - but you will not have internalised the fundamental dynamics of any of them, in the way that you would have done had you just knuckled down in one martial arts style for that period of time.

Also, if you have a really solid grounding in the dynamics of one system, you can then bring that insight into a comparative study of other systems, better than you could if you were looking at them without that internalised understanding.

So yeah, as noted above, try out lots of stuff, see what resonates with you. But eventually think about finding one thing to focus on more fully for a period of time.
 
 
Quantum
13:11 / 11.12.06
Today I'm going on a bit of a journey and drew a Seven of Swords for the final outcome and so this has rather immediate relevance. Permuted Man

The seven of swords is about victory through cunning or intelligence IMO, with a heavy dash of self-doubt. In the Smith/Waite deck it's someone stealing five swords to disarm a foe but looking back over their shoulder at the two they couldn't get, it often crops up in readings for perfectionists indicating a focus on small failings while ignoring successes.

Yet Sevens are usually pretty negative cards

I wouldn't say so, the sevens show opportunities that require effort or determination to succeed. Compare to the fives for example which are all about conflict and loss.
You might look more closely at the Chariot, the seventh major arcanum (although it doesn't touch Netzach on the tree if you count the cards as paths).
 
 
Dutch
16:22 / 14.12.06
An acquaintance of mine dubbed it "spill-over".

A few months ago, before the break-up between me and my girlfriend happened, him and I were at a music festival together. We were both pretty hopped up on e, weed and energy drinks. He expressed his doubt about the relationship with his then girlfriend, and referring to his own problems with monogamy and trusting of others. He looked really stressed and worried, so, as I sometimes do, I put my hands on him and tried to give him a lot of my (at the time) excess positive energy. This seemed to work and he cheered up, felt strengthened and had a great time at the festival. Now this probably doesn't constitute magic per se, and the action-reaction link is tenuous admittedly, but the problem is more what happened later on.

In the months following the music festival, my thoughts began to grow darker and darker, I had hate-flashes towards those whom I loved, especially my girlfriend. Sudden waves of hatred gone in a few seconds would wash over me, and I couldn't figure out why. My mind began to think up the most evil scenarios, wherein my loved ones would die and in some way benefit me. It sounds horrible I know. She had not hurt me in any way, and I knew I loved her, but these for me inexplicable thoughts and emotions kept washing over me.

Now this acquaintance of mine, is a person of very strange build, spiritually speaking. He has a magic that I believe he doesn't practice regularly, but appears strong to me. He is very intelligent and has something of an apocalyptic/dark messiah complex. Admittedly though, we both have played fallout too much...

But after the break-up between me and my girlfriend, I told him about the episodes I had and he asked me when it started happening. I told him it was not long after the festival. His theory was that I had gained some of the darkness he had in his minds, that it had spilled over into me when I tried to help him. I expressed that if that was the kind of thought he had to live with it all the time, I felt sorry for him.

Now am I reading too much into something that could have been a merely psychological weirdness on my part? I do have a very active fantasy life, and the tendency to push down thoughts that I find unacceptable in my own psyche. Could it have been just a kind of backfire I was experiencing from unwisely using that as a method of trying to keep my head clean?

Does anyone else here have experiences of a "spill-over", i.e. (inadvertently) taking on thoughts, emotions, problems of others?

Hmmm, I hope it makes some sort of sense. Sorry if I come across as a horrible human being now, but this question has been on my mind for some time, and the kind of darkness I had then is still with me in some way. Is it just a part of me I need to accept or is there a way to have a sort of "house clearing of the soul" as I think Lou Rhodes put it?
 
 
jentacular dreams
17:05 / 14.12.06
I'm going through something similar at the moment, but I non't know how spiritual it is. I moved into a new house 3 months ago with a friend who suffers from a lot of depression. I've been giving her shoulder massages for a while and she has recently (last 2 weeks) been on something of a high. I at the same time have been feeling much slower, more tired, and a lot less positive. It seems fairly stable, I'm not getting any better or worse with time (nor is she), but I'm starting to really look forward to the christmas break and a chance to recharge my emotional batteries. So if it is spiritually linked, I'm hoping it's a temporary thing.
 
 
Dead Megatron
17:10 / 14.12.06
My googling skils were insuficiente for this, so I ask ye, o wise ones: what is the technical term for "sexual intercourse with a god"? Something philia...

Help me out.

thanks
 
 
Dead Megatron
17:16 / 14.12.06
Never mind, I found it (always right after I give up): it's Hieros Gamos (or heirogamy)

thanks anyway guys
 
 
Ticker
17:38 / 14.12.06
regarding the energy hangover/after effects/taint/drain most praticioners have shielding exercises they do before hand to magically put on 'gloves' as it were and exercises to take them off afterwards. Cleansing rituals are particularly good aftercare.

Aftercare btw, is a truly essential thing for all healers as it helps keep your own immune systems up and allows you to see if some sludge is adhered to your own energetic body.

Sharing/exchaning/giving energy is something we can all do to some extent howver being trained how to do it safely is very important.

For a beginner I'd recommend the glove visualization. Before engaging with the recipent ground yourself and pull some not-you energy around yourself and especially onto your primary means of contact, in most cases that's your hands. Focus on the distinction bewtween the barrier layer and your own layer, it is one way permable from you outwards. Request whatever guides or aids or benevolent forces you've got to help out. Do your work with the other person and then afterwards responsibly return the energy clinging to you on the outside layer to the earth for recycling. Please always be thoughtful about this don't pour energetic waste into a pond or tree that you haven't consulted. When indoubt ask your guides to assist you.

Now comes your own aftercare. How do you feel after the gloves are off? If it was a major use of your own energy do you need to recharge? Have you accidently been injuried? Ground and take stock of your condition and select a cleansing ritual to assist.

I recently was in a situation where even after my normal cleansing ritual I still felt muddy and asked Rosie X for her suggestion. Here's her in thread version: Hyssop
 
 
Haloquin
19:44 / 14.12.06
Stupid Question;
My mum recieved an envelope which she is certain comes from a specific, and unstable, ex. who apparently has an interest in Crowley.
She took it to a mutual friend who has some knowledge, apparently, of the occult/Crowley.
Mutual friend wouldn't tell her anything other than to burn it, specifically the feathers if nothing else.
S/he called it the "Crowley curse".

This sounds like mostly rubbish from where I'm sat, and the people I've spoken to who have a better knowledge of Crowley than me have concurred.

Mum also has a basic understanding of magically orientated things and made the comment that she didn't think it would hurt her, except maybe on a psychological basis. Although I'm not sure she entirely believed this.

I offered and performed a protective charm on her and my brothers, mostly for her piece of mind, but kinda just in case.

My opinion is that Mr. Unstable doesn't have the know-how, focus, etc.... to do anything effectively anyway. Mostly what I'm interested in is if anyone possibly knows what "the Crowley curse" might refer to, or if said mutual friend is a bit of an idiot.

This whole situation pissed me right off. Grrrr.

I did also send a blessing his way, he's so broken. He is seeing a therapist, but he works with mentally disabled people (sorry if this is unPC, no offence/deriding is intended) the problem, from a police point of view, is proving he did it, so he'll probably get away with it and continue working with vulnerable people. Grrrrrr!

Anyway, I digress. In short;
Crowley curse? Huh?
 
 
Papess
11:50 / 15.12.06
Crowley Curse? What, bad publicity? Did your mom fail to give her ex his heroin? *rolls eyes*

It sounds like utter nonsense to me, Haloquin. I have known people who use references to Crowley just to make something sound "evil" or ominous.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:14 / 15.12.06
Aleister Crowley was not noted for sending cursed feathers in the post to people. Your mother's friend sounds like a bit of a muppet, to be honest - and almost certainly hasn't read any actual books written by Crowley. "The Crowley Curse" for fuck's sake...

My opinion is that Mr. Unstable doesn't have the know-how, focus, etc.... to do anything effectively anyway

Bollocks to that though. Any idiot with enough spite and some black candles can cause trouble to a fair extent. Sometimes the mad unstable cobbled together hoodoo with black feathers, pins and candles burned on photos by a total amateur can be effective as hell. Bad juju is bad juju. Your worst enemy is the magician's vanity that walks around thinking you can't be hurt by a random joker with bad intentions and a tacky book of spells from Borders. It's not hard to fling mud at someone, and if things in your life are at all precarious to start with, that mud can tip the balance as effectively as a beginners sigil can get results.

But it shouldn't really take too much washing off if it's just an amateurs curse letter with no real clout backing it up. A cleansing bath with various herbal ingredients would be a good move.
 
 
Unconditional Love
06:48 / 16.12.06
Another thing with energy work is too give it to something else, a rock or a stone, store the bad stuff in it, a plant if you want to kill them (not good), also those bad charged stones can come in handy, let your healing make for more effective curses. (probably better to just drop them in a stream, beach pebbles work well.)
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
16:58 / 16.12.06
Ok -- lucid dream here. I visited a mountain in china, or somewhere, and found a pair of i think they were martial arts instructors, a man and a woman. Man had his upper body naked and showed me his full-tatooed back.

anyone has listened about them?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
08:07 / 18.12.06
It was a dream about kung fu.

Nobody on the internet is going to have any special insight into it.

What does it mean to you?
 
 
Haloquin
09:52 / 18.12.06
My opinion is that Mr. Unstable doesn't have the know-how, focus, etc.... to do anything effectively anyway

Bollocks to that though. Any idiot with enough spite and some black candles can cause trouble to a fair extent.

Point taken, that was part of the reason for the protection; just in case.

Thanks for the replies.
 
  

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