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DC Universe Surgery

 
  

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Aertho
21:58 / 30.03.05
Tell me about the Godwave. And why it matters to Wonder Woman.
 
 
Mario
22:54 / 30.03.05
Godwave: Energies created by the destruction of the homeworld of the Old Gods (variously called Urgrund & Asgaard). If you believe the Genesis crossover, it empowered all of the gods of myth (the Greek Gods, Norse Gods, Hindu, etc).

For a while, WW had the power to channel it's raw energies, but I don't know if she still has that ability.
 
 
doyoufeelloved
17:16 / 06.04.05
Hawkman. Dr. Fate. Kendra Hall. Somebody explain their connections to me, because I am loooooost. I gather there's a lot of father/son and reincarnation stuff, but past that, I'm clueless. I thought Hawkman was just a silly alien with wings...
 
 
Mario
20:57 / 06.04.05
Forget about the alien Hawkman. He's not relevant.

Essentially, we have three generations.

Generation 1 is the GA Hawkman & Hawkgirl, who are reincarnations of an Egyptian pair. Both died. Hawkman came back in JSA, and Hawkgirl was reincarnated in/has possessed the body of her own niece (the present Hawkgirl).

Generation 2 is their son Hector, who adventured as Silver scarab for a bit, died, became Sandman for a bit (as a ghost), and had a son with Fury II. When Morpheus came back, Hector was sent to the afterlife, and has since been reincarnated as the new Dr. Fate (the parents of his physical body are Hawk I and Dove II).

Generation 3 is Daniel, son of Hector and Fury II, who is now Dream of the Endless.

It sounds complicated, but it's not as bad as all that. Basically, the hall family tends to get reincarnated a lot, and everyone has a new body. Some of them are previously owned.
 
 
matsya
22:53 / 06.04.05
So where do Katar and Sheira Hol figure into the whole thing? And Thanagar, for that matter?

m.
 
 
Pooky Is Just My Pornstar Name
01:32 / 07.04.05
I have a vague memory of Barry Allen and Zatanna having an affair back when they were in the JLA (circa late 1970s/early 1980s). Am I misremembering, or did they indeed have an affair?
 
 
Mario
01:37 / 07.04.05
Short form: They don't. Hawkman has Katar's memories, but that's independent of the reincarnation gig (it's a side effect of how he was brought back). Shiera Thal is still around, and is unconnected to the GA couple. As for Thanagar, the original Hawkman's wings came from there, by way of ancient Egypt.

(It's all in the JSA arc that brought him back).
 
 
matsya
05:27 / 07.04.05
so - what? hawkman THOUGHT he was an alien cop from thanagar, but wasn't really? But hawkgirl IS an alien cop from thanagar?

m.
 
 
FinderWolf
12:31 / 07.04.05
>> I have a vague memory of Barry Allen and Zatanna having an affair back when they were in the JLA (circa late 1970s/early 1980s). Am I misremembering, or did they indeed have an affair?

Apparently they did, or at least flirted up a storm, when Barry thought his wife was dead. I've never read the comics where this happens but I've heard people talking about it as such. I think I heard someone say that most of the actual affair happened off-panel, that it was all implied through their flirtations on-panel.
 
 
Mario
14:31 / 07.04.05
Matsaya: No, there was a second Hawkman, from Thanagar. He's not biologically related to any of the others, and is now dead. However, the original Hawkman has his memories (among others).

He may be the "beloved hero" returning in the Rann-Thanagar War, tho.
 
 
chucklehound
18:16 / 07.04.05
i think flash and zatanna just flirted a lot and never really had a proper relationship.

from jla #191:



i don't recall there being much mention of the relationship after this issue, but i'm not quite done with my jla re-reading (i cheated a bit and jumped up to giffen-era to help recover from countdown to infinite crisis)
 
 
Aertho
18:57 / 07.04.05
Here's a q: what IS that in Z's hair?
 
 
FinderWolf
20:33 / 07.04.05
Some weird wacko little red fake-bony headdress-type thing that someone obviously thought it would be cool and mystical to put in her hair. That thing has always looked utterly horrible and bizarre to me as well.
 
 
Aertho
21:25 / 07.04.05
Well, yes. I was hoping a Temple/Comics commuter might tell me it's the ancient headress-tiara of the Atlantean Parlor Mages or something. In the meantime, I'll keep wondering why they'd think that it'd be cool to put a snake in the poor girl's hair.
 
 
matsya
22:15 / 07.04.05
okay, still on the hawkman stuff - done some googling and it's a little clearer. So the "first policeman of thanagar" dude just - what? disappeared? when they made the hawkworld stuff? and the grumpy one related to carter hall just took his place and everyone went, "oh, hi hawkman"?

m.
 
 
chucklehound
23:19 / 07.04.05
not to (yet again) drag scott tipton's column into the surgery threads, but he did three weeks on hawkman, that, if they don't actually clear anything up, at least explain all the different hawkman continuities:

http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/66.html
http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/67.html

http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/68.html


i think it's a testament to the complexity of hawkman's continuity that even james robinson was unable to make him sufficiently coherent enough to appear in starman.
 
 
matsya
01:19 / 08.04.05
what does "sufficiently coherent enough to appear in starman" mean?

m.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
07:43 / 08.04.05
My attempt to explain the Thanagarian Hawkmen in a nutshell (or six):

Alien planet Thanagar develops along a hawk based society - Creates flying wings. Invades lots of planets. Loses a spaceship on Earth (round about Egyptian times. The flying Nth Metal is used by an Egyptian king who eventually reincarnates as Carter Hall).

A few thousand years later (early 20th Century on Earth), the Thanagarian empire is fat bloated and lazy. Scientist/Spy Paran Katar is assigned to Earth, and using the name Perry Carter, befriends Carter Hall (Hawkman, the Egyptian reincarnated). Between them, they 'rediscover' Nth metal. Carter Hall becomes Hawkman, Paran Katar reintroduces the flying wings to Thanagarian society, Thanagar becomes a corrupt police state ruled by upper class in floating cities, policed by 'Wingmen'.

A generation later, Paran Katar has a son (with a native american woman, but this scandal is covered up). Paran raises his son Katar Hol, alone. Katar becomes a wingman but is tricked into killing his father by his corrupt squadron leader, Byth. Katar is awarded honours for uncovering Byth's machinations, but to avoid further political crusades, is assigned to Earth, in reality to track down Byth, but using the facade of creating diplomatic ties (following the recent Invasion of Earth by races including Thanagar, in the Invasion crossover).

Katar is assigned a partner, Shayera Thal. The daughter of corrupt officials, with scandalous origins, Shayera is told to spy on Katar, but eventually they fall in love.

Continued....
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
07:51 / 08.04.05
Meanwhile....

Carter Hall had been a superhero as Hawkman since the 1940's, working with the JSA and JLA, with his wife, reincarnated egyptian princess Shiera(?) Hall. Following the Crisis on Infinite Earths, both are trapped in Limbo. A new Hawkman and Hawkgirl appeared, he claimed to be the original's son, but was in reality a Thanagarian spy. He joined the Justice League, and even defused a Thanagarian artists bomb during Invasion (in an issue of Animal Man) His wife uncovered his background at that time, and he murdered her during the Invasion, and returned to Thanagar. Presumed dead, Maxwell Lord and the Justice League covered up the story, so as not to sully the original Hawkman's reputation. The spy later came to Earth again in Katar's place, but was defeated by Shayera Thal.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
08:00 / 08.04.05
...
Carter and Shiera Hall eventually returned from Limbo, and befriended Katar and Shayera.

It turned out Nth Metal was powered by displacing a hawk god/other dimensional being through seven levels of heaven and hell/different dimenions. Zero hour weakened the creatures bonds, and he emerged.

To battle the creature, all reincarnations of Carter (except Shayera) were merged into Katar, which physically changed him. He later went on a murdering spree, having been driven mad by the voices, and Katar sacrificed himself by entering the hawk-gods dimension, where Carter, Shiera, and all the other hawk-avatars were separated. Katar 'died', Shiera was reincarnated into the body of Kendra (?), the current Hawkgirl, who had just committed suicide. She ended up with a mix of the two's memories.

Carter emerged from the dimension on Thanagar in a renewed body, in JSA 25.

A few years later,
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
08:01 / 08.04.05
oops, scrap that last line, I must have cut/pasted something and left a bit behind.
 
 
chucklehound
21:24 / 08.04.05
> what does "sufficiently coherent enough to appear in starman" mean?

i mean, early on in starman, robinson laid out many of his long-term plot points, one of which included a crossover with hawkman. i recall reading at some point he had to drop the storyline as the hawkman character was in mid-retcon and robinson was unable to reconcile the changes with his intended version of hawkman. i believe the storyline was replaced with the captain marvel crossover, but can't confirm that. that said, once starman was done, robinson did work with geoff johns to try to straighten out hawk-continuity in the most recent series (which is where all the goofy reincarnation explanation comes in)
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
00:50 / 09.04.05
He also brought in Black Condor for the Grand Guignol storyline to accomodate Charity's "man with wings" visions that were used to set up the potential Hawkman plot.
 
 
matsya
04:05 / 09.04.05
So what happened to Thanagarian Shayera in all this? what did she do when she wasn't merged with all the other hawk avatars?

m.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
10:50 / 09.04.05
She went into semi-retirement, but showed up for a guest appearance in the latest series, around issue 15 I think. I'm not sure, but I think she may still have the old costume, unless I'm misremembering she was in the background of an all-heroine issue of (Phil Jimenez') Wonder Woman doing the super-hero thing.

Google tells me she's now a cop.
 
 
Mario
13:33 / 09.04.05
And she'll be turning up in the Rann-Thanagar War mini. We've already seen her on the covers.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
22:24 / 09.04.05
Okay, I have a question on Solaris, and just to warn you, thw answer may simply be that I'm nuts. I love Solaris, awesomely cool concept and stuff. But for some reason my subcouncious is absolutely convinced that while JLA One Million brought Solaris into modern comics, that he was around in the silver age and stuff. Now, I've searched and can't find reference to Solaris in the olden days. But, in Supreme there's Gorrl, the Living Galaxy, whom I had assumed was a translation of Solaris for Supreme. And Supreme was circa 1996, DC One Millioncirca 1999. So. Am I just crazy, or has the silver age Solaris been wiped out of our continuity just like his own?
 
 
Mario
00:43 / 10.04.05
I can't speak on your sanity, but Grant invented Solaris.
 
 
matsya
01:23 / 10.04.05
Solaris isn't the only planet-sized baddie - Marvel had Ego, the Living Planet and the Green Lantern Corps had a member who was an entire planet. Both of those guys predate DC 1000000, so maybe they're what Grant was riffing off (the author of the Mogo article muses on the same thing about Mogo).

m.
 
 
Triplets
07:51 / 10.04.05
There was also that Green Lattern baddy the 'Mad Sector 3001' or summat, who was supposed to be an entire sentient galaxy. But unlike other respectable nebulae he was nasty!
 
 
grant
19:24 / 11.04.05
Piers Anthony's first novel was named CHTHON, and was about an intelligent planet. It came out in 1967, and is probably unrelated to this Marvel "Elder God" -- but you never know.

The Tarkovsky movie Solaris, about a planet that is *sort of* intelligent (or at least, telepathic & prone to creating replicas of people's thoughts as a natural phenomenon), came out in 1972.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:37 / 19.04.05
OK, so Luthor is back causing havoc in the DCU, hanging out in secret underground lairs (TM Dr. Evil) and wearing Armani suits.

How??

At one point in a recent comicbookresources interview, QUESTION miniseries writer Rick Veitch says that Luthor is building a Science Spire (also reflected in the mediocre Azz/Bermejo Lex Luthor: Man of Steel miniseries), and mentions rather casually that "Luthor is back establishing himself as a businessman" (not a direct quote), but doesn't at all address how he does this from being publicly disgraced, revealed as a villain, trying to kill Superman in full view of the world, acting like major homidical lunatic after having been disgraced as President and crawling around in the sewers muttering about an impending crisis. (all of this in Superman/Batman #6)
 
 
COBRAnomicon!
15:52 / 19.04.05
I dunno, some people still take Donald Trump seriously as a businessman. If he can rehabillitate his image here in Qwewq, a Luthor rehab in the DCU seems to be on about the same scale.
 
 
A beautiful tunnel of ghosts
20:50 / 19.04.05
In this CBR interview, Veitch explains the discontinuity between the Lex Luthor character in both The Question and Superman titles.
 
 
Spaniel
14:06 / 21.04.05
Okay, tell me about Sinestro.
Is he GL's archist enemy EVAR? Where does his power ring come from and what's it capable of? Who's his best friend?
 
  

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