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DC Universe Surgery

 
  

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FinderWolf
13:29 / 06.07.05
The cloned 'son', who of course was really Luthor in a new younger healthier body, got killed by the Clone Virus that afflicted lots of DC clones (including Superboy). As I recall, in the Underworld Unleashed miniseries/crossover, Luthor made a deal the Neron, the DC version of the devil, to get a healthy new body since his cloned body was rapidly dying from the virus. But Neron has the last laugh as this new body is, of course, bald.

For a while they gave Luthor red eyebrows to show that he had recently been in the cloned 'son of Luthor' body (who had long flowing Scottish locks of red hair), but they stopped doing it after a while. I thought that Luthor with eeevil red eyebrows looked cool.

Incidentally, I say Scottish just theoretically, because it's been hinted at in various Superman incarnations that the name Luthor is Irish or Scottish or Welsh, something like that -- flaming red hair on the son, Lionel's grandfather having the very Irish/Scottish name "Lachlan Luthor" (also continuing the LL tradition) on Smallville, etc.
 
 
doyoufeelloved
14:08 / 06.07.05
I believe in the books they claimed Luthor's red-haired "son" was from Australia.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
15:31 / 06.07.05
Luthor told Neron that if Hell actually existed, he knew he was ending up there anyway, so it was a win win situation for Luthor.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
12:59 / 21.07.05
Jason Todd killed Joker?! Whuddafuk?
 
 
FinderWolf
13:10 / 21.07.05
Jason Todd has apparently returned from the dead in the pages of Judd Winnick's BATMAN. He beats the Joker a lot with a crowbar, imitating how the Joker 'killed' him. Don't worry, the Joker ain't really dead...they show a scene of Jason beating him up saying 'how do you like it?!?' and crazy stuff like that, then they cut away to another scene.

Apparently Batman tests Jason's hair/DNA and it's really him. Jason Todd is all 'you didn't go far enough, I'm gonna be an extreme bad-ass killer vigilante and cleanse the world of criminals the Punisher way!!' Batman's like 'um, then I'll have to stop you then.' Someone at DC clearly doesn't realize this approach was already taken with Azrael and the Batman Knightfall storyline (i.e. someone with close ties to Bruce going all badass killer vigilante, Bruce has to stop the person even though they used to be buds, etc.)

They have not yet explained how Jason can still be alive. Convoluted explanation to be coming soon.
 
 
Spaniel
13:42 / 21.07.05
That sounds fucking awful. AWFUL.

Also, cliches, 80's violence, and inarticulate convoluted narratives aside, when will they ever learn that villains like the Joker need to be used sparingly, thoughtfully, and, most importantly, in such a way that their status isn't undermined? The guy's Batman's arch-enemy for Christ's sake. He's the personification of everything that's unpleasant, evil and wrong in the DC universe. Some johnny-come-lately baddy (so fucking what if it's Jason Todd behind the mask) beating on the Joker with a crowbar reduces the character to little more than mook status.

Sorry, I hate to get all prescriptive and Byrne-like, but this shit really gets on my nerves.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:07 / 21.07.05
don't worry, if it made you John Byrne simply to dislike something and say so vehemently, the most of the comics community would be John Byrne. But only Byrne has the distinguishing characteristic of saying things like 'whenever I see a Hispanic woman with blonde hair, she looks like a hooker to me' and think that such things are just fine and dandy to say. (he said this on the casting of Jessica Alba as Sue Storm, incidentally)
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:44 / 21.07.05
Yes, but Tim Drake managed to beat the Joker (second or third miniseries before he got his ongoing) so it's not that difficult really. The only danger is that he might kill or maim a member of the Gordon family before he's captured (rumours that former Commissioner Gordon's Christmas cards all get returned saying 'no-one of that name lives at this address' cannot be confirmed). Hal Jordan probably did it when he was The Spectre.
 
 
doyoufeelloved
17:35 / 21.07.05
when will they ever learn that villains like the Joker need to be used sparingly, thoughtfully, and, most importantly, in such a way that their status isn't undermined?

This was actually the first time the Joker had appeared in a Batman book for at least a year, I think. The editors have very purposefully kept him out of the spotlight, from what I've seen in interviews.
 
 
grant
17:52 / 21.07.05
Random question:

Truckers were really popular in the 70s. Was there ever a trucker superhero?
 
 
FinderWolf
17:57 / 21.07.05
Marvel did have a comic book called US 1, about the adventures of a trucker (who, I think, was non-superpowered). I think it lasted like 6 issues. The logo was that of a highway sign. Google away!
 
 
Jack Denfeld
18:10 / 21.07.05
I'd like to say that Jason Todd was the best Robin of all times for the following reasons.

1.He met Batman while trying to steal the hubcaps off the Batmobile.

2. He pushed some rapist or killer(don't remember which) off a roof and when Batman asked what happened, Todd said, "He slipped."

3. In "Death in the Family" when he's on the commercial flight he orders a rum and coke.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:58 / 21.07.05
Those are pretty good reasons, I have to say.

Whenever I tell someone the story of Jason Todd (I actually have told the story a few times to comics newcomers), I always mention points 1. and 2. I had forgotten about point 3.
 
 
Jack Fear
20:04 / 21.07.05
Truckers were really popular in the 70s. Was there ever a trucker superhero?


I give you the glory that is... Razorback.
 
 
Spaniel
20:04 / 21.07.05
This was actually the first time the Joker had appeared in a Batman book for at least a year, I think. The editors have very purposefully kept him out of the spotlight, from what I've seen in interviews.

Yeah, so they bring him back to have the shit beaten out of him.

I'm sorry, that might work for you, but it really doesn't work for me.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:21 / 21.07.05
Dear God, thank you for Razorback, and thank you, fellow Barbelith poster, for the link. I had forgotten that guy, but then I saw the linked page and that nice John Byrne panel from back when he drew better and before he became a real hack-o-rama.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
20:22 / 21.07.05
Razorback's a Marvel character. I could see him as a DC villian though.
 
 
Juan_Arteaga
20:54 / 21.07.05
Didn't Green Lantern (Hal) work as a trucker at one point of his life?
 
 
FinderWolf
13:41 / 22.07.05
He pretty much lived out of his car as a traveling salesman for a while.
 
 
Aertho
14:04 / 22.07.05
Razorback's a Marvel character. I could see him as a DC villian though.

You know that episode of Wonder Years when Kevin decides to pick all nerds for his basketball team one day, and they end up having more fun playing horribly than if they were trying to keep up with the jocks?

What if Marvel and DC execs got together and drafted and traded characters? Considering what Morrison can do with lame-o characters, and that he's one of the post-Inifinite Crisis Editor Gods, that'd be sweet.

F it. I just want a Captain Britian book by Morrison and Davis.
 
 
rabideyemovement
14:46 / 22.07.05
Did you ever read Alan Moore's and Alan Davis' take on Captain Britain?
 
 
Aertho
16:09 / 22.07.05
No, but that's the reason I want GM to tackle it. Pure hubris and titan stuggles. Plus, he'd rewrite the book on how Otherworld and the Dimensional Nexus work - more sciency-magick... Brian would end up a lost and drunk Greg Feely, and Meggan would be the local crackwhore. But then they'd get clean after Meg slits her wrists in despair, and live happily ever after.
 
 
Kirk Ultra
10:03 / 23.07.05
Anybody looking for a really good Joker story should check out Batman: Dark Detective, which has only one issue left before its finished (it could be finished already, but i'm out of the country now and not near any comic stores, so i don't know if the last issue's out yet). The Joker is in fine and terrifyingly mad form in this story, and I couldn't recomend it more. It's also one of the best Two-Face and Batman stories to come out in ages as well.

As for the current Batman books, Joker (and Two-Face) has definately been in the background for a long time, they must be building up the suspense. After a beating like that, you know its only a matter of time before he shows up to take some insane revenge on a lot of people. Or at least, if the people at DC have any brains at all that's what'll be happenning. Black Mask, Hush, and Red Hood running Gotham City? Whatever on that.
 
 
Spaniel
10:27 / 23.07.05
Personally, I think I'll wait until Morrison gets his mitts on Batman. Now, I'm sure he'll get the Joker right.
 
 
The Falcon
17:51 / 23.07.05
Hum. I've not really liked Grant's Joker, in either Arkham, JLA or Aztek.

He had good plots an t'ing, but didn't really get the malevolence going for me. 'Cept maybe in that elseworlds/Key story.
 
 
Axolotl
07:33 / 25.07.05
The Joker story in Rucka & Brubaker's "Gotham Central" worked really well. he was both convincingly mad and incredibly evil. In fact, imho, "Gotham Central" has dealt with all the villains really well.
 
 
Spaniel
10:33 / 25.07.05
Yeah, actually, falc, now you come to mention it, Morrison hasn't nailed the Joker's malevolence. I'm sure he's got it in him, however.

Phyre, have those particular issues been collected? I like Brubaker, and I'm keen to check out his take.
 
 
This Sunday
10:57 / 25.07.05
I actually preferred the Morrison/JLA Joker turning a continent into a smile (with untold accompanying deaths, destroyed stuff, and damage to the rest of the planet) than a stabby-stab-stab Ed Gein imitator. Casual slaughter that isn't even important enough to enter into the picture so long as he's entertaining himself - far more horrific to me than Smiley the Knife-Guy with a sharklike grin. If he's going to actually do it by hand, or deliberate, it should be involved, y'know? He'd have to put some creativity into it. Case in point: 'Arkham Asylum' and the gal's eyes, pencil, scream and all... far more entertaining than actually putting out her eyes, innit? The boogeyman's not about the damage he does, but the damage he could do. That was about the only thing Joker-wise the first Burton film got right: Fully-functional homocidal artist, be it Joker-venom make-overs or Cesar Romero performance pieces. Or, to be really geeky about it, the Joker is Hypertime.
 
 
The Falcon
12:56 / 25.07.05
Thing is, I don't really know what the 'right' Joker is? Maybe the Killing Joke/DKR one; unfortunately, due to my non-ownership of either, I can't really illustrate this.
 
 
thirty/thirty
10:16 / 26.07.05
Okay I know Identity Crisis has come and gone but I still have some unresolved issues and I hope that the Barb's DC aficionados can help me make sense of it all..

Here goes:

Who was the mother of Captain Boomerang's son? And if the kid was adopted how is it possible for him to have Boomerangs super speed?

What were Dr. Moon and Phobia up to?

How could the supers have allowed Jean Loring to be sent to Arkham? Aren't they afraid that she may...oh, I don't know...tell every friggin' villian in the place who Batman really is (or every other super-hero's secret identity for that matter)?! Oh, and speaking of which how was it possible for Jean Loring to be sentenced to a mental institution without an actual trial taking place. I assume there was no trial because if there had been she would have been forced to reveal the names of the heroes.

At one point Firehawk calls her father to tell him that she's quitting super-heroics but as I recall he was killed years before. Does she have two daddies?

And lastly, Infinite Crisis deals with Batman finding out about his minding wiping and being really, really sulky at the JLA for firstly, wiping the mind of Dr. Light and secondly, the wiping of his mind. Why didn't this moral high-horsing of ol' Bats rear its head when he stood by during the Martian Manhunter's mind-wiping of the White Martian in Grant's JLA run.
 
 
This Sunday
11:57 / 26.07.05
For that last bit: J'onn came on with 'you cannot imagine what they' and 'we deal with our own' and Bats bought it. Let him deal with it the way he dealt with it. I actually like self-hypnotizing NLP Bats, but I can see him getting touchy when it comes to - not someone brainwashing anyone, but - he, himself, being brainwashed.
Unless it's by Superman's amnesia-kiss.
Have to have standards, after all.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:11 / 26.07.05
>> Who was the mother of Captain Boomerang's son? And if the kid was adopted how is it possible for him to have Boomerangs super speed?

Hasn't been answered yet...when this is answered, it will likely be in the pages of Flash, probably during Geoff Johns' run. Or was this answered in that book and I'm forgetting? Someone please correct me here. The rumored answer is Golden Glider, who I think had super-speed...?

As for why would they ever put Jean Loring in Arkham, I think I heard Brad Meltzer or one DC editor say 'oh, she won't tell other villains, she's psycho but she has a code of honor' or some BS explanation like that.
 
 
gridley
13:16 / 26.07.05
Didn't Green Lantern (Hal) work as a trucker at one point of his life?

Yup. Hal drove a big rig. And wherever he drove that truck, supervillians were guaranteed to pop up. It was right after the Green Lantern series got cancelled and GL was demoted down to a back-up feature in the back pages of the Flash's comic. Then he was still trucking for a while after his series was revived as Green Lantern/Green Arrow.
 
 
matsya
06:23 / 27.07.05
Okay. John Stewart. Can someone bring me up to speed on his post-Mosaic career? I know he's back in the JLA and I know he was a DarkStar (or whatever they were called) for a while. Has anyone ever attempted to reconcile his current status with the whole "I blew up Xanshi" psychosis? And what about the fact that he became a Guardian? How'd he survive the blowing up of Oa, anyway?
m.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:16 / 27.07.05
>> GL was demoted down to a back-up feature in the back pages of the Flash's comic.

This is an interesting bit of trivia, never knew the character got demoted like this, publishing-wise...
 
  

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