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DC Universe Surgery

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21:49 / 03.01.05

Oh, sure. But not as a superhero book.

It's a high-fantasy concept, a heroic romance in the old sense--THE LITTLE MERMAID reimagined as an action movie, SPONGEBOB SQUAREPANTS meets "The Hero's Journey."

Arthur should be riding sea-horses and going on quests, exploring mysterious ancient shipwrecks, fighting sea-hags and pirates and the Flying Dutchman and the Old Man of the Sea. Give him a crown, for God's sakes--a crown of Spanish doubloons, and shark-hide armour, and a cloak of shells like St. James.

Strip it of any science fiction elements or New Age-y cod-mysticism (heh--"cod") and go straight to the fairy-tale elements that are already inherent in the character and his origins.

In short, make it a comic for children--as it was in the beginning and should have been all along.

03:21 / 08.01.05

Oddly enough, that's almost exactly what I was thinking.

After having read the promo pieces for 7 Soldiers, I simply must know: What kind of golden age madness was The Newsboy Army and is Mr. Morrison planning a Wild Boys take on it?

Okay, the second part was a trick question.

20:35 / 09.01.05

The Newsboy Legion were the sidekicks of the original Guardian. They were basically a bunch of kids who got into adventures (this was considered believable in the 1940's

)

I'm guessing the Newsboy Army is the 21st century variant.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

04:23 / 10.01.05

The Newsboy Legion was a group of kids that were very much in the "Kid Gang" mentality of the time, much like "The Dead End Kids" or "Little Rascals" of the movies at the time. There were a LOT of them, and most every comic book company had them at the time. The characters were:

Tommy (the leader)
Big Words (the smart one)
Scrappy (the fighter)
Gabby (the Brooklyn one)

and they were the supporting of The Guardian.

When Kirby came back to DC in the 70's, he brought them back as the clones of the originals, and added "Flippa Dippa" a black kid who was into scuba diving (hense the name). They have been used in the modern DCU by Karl Kesel, who is a HUGE Kibry fan.

10:02 / 10.01.05

rickard/prez was also the name of luthor's cg president in dk2, so rucka's really just hoovering up the scraps left for him in the 21st century's best superhero comic thus far. loads of people hated it - all of them are pricks.

Computer-generated president, though.

While DK2 is prolly top 5 of the new millenium, I'd personally opt for Millar's Authority (first arc, anyway) or X-Force/Statix in top spot.

10:30 / 10.01.05

wow - top 5 21st c superbooks.

no order

dk2
xforce-statix
promethea
marvel boy
and there's bound to be a real goodie out there i've not read. or could say jack staff.

a thousand lifetimes of acne on repeat in a quasi-fifties american suburb to the first to say eightball23.

01:10 / 12.01.05

Marvel Boy is a shoe-in, defo.

19:27 / 21.01.05

>> This season, Black Canary, Shayera, Vigilante, Vixen and The Question step up to face such villains as Lex Luthor, Felix Faust and Tobias Whale.

who the heck is Tobias Whale? I know my DC characters, 15 years of reading comics and all, but I never heard of him before- was this someone created just for the animated Justice League show, or (more likely) an obscure DC villain I’ve never heard of? Sounds like an Aquaman villain...??

19:39 / 21.01.05

found it, had a moment to google, he's an old Black Lightning villain, apparently...an albino guy who's part of the infamous '100' criminal gang...

>> While on a tour of the building with the principal, Jeff stumbled across a drug deal in a school hallway. Furious, he slammed the dealer into the lockers and ordered the junkie to report to the school nurse. Impressed, the principal welcomed Jeff Pierce to the school. Later, Jeff was getting to know the school's top basketball player when several thugs from the local mob, The 100, came to call on the nosy teacher who had tackled their drug dealer. Jeff and the student succeeded in fighting off the thugs. But the 100 was not an organization that took kindly to meddlers.

>> Tobias Whale, leader of the 100, ordered the thugs to beat up the student, Earl Clifford. They intended to just scare him, but accidentally ran into him with their vehicle. They left the body hanging from the basketball hoop at the school, where Jefferson Pierce could see the price of interfering with the 100.

21:21 / 21.01.05

The 100 are the same bastards who held a gun on Brave & Bold artist Jim Aparo and tried to force him to draw Sgt. Rock shooting Batman.

I really hate those guys.

Haus of Mystery

15:26 / 22.01.05

Jack, that issue sounds fucking amazing. Did Aparo draw himself as an Aparo-head? Does he look cool?

Re: Aquaman - I agree. It would write itself. No writer ever seems to take advantage of the fact it's set underwater. I came up with a form of underwater martial arts for them to do, using currents an eddies, and sentient kelp fields that contained the memories of previous Atlantean generations that Arthur could communicate with. Royal gurads in shellfish armour, fuck it'd be so much fun. And he wouldn't have a fucking harpoon for a hand. Does he have a hand now? I seem to remember that happening. Also: keep him weird and bearded, looks better.

18:46 / 22.01.05

He has a mystical hand made of water now. A gift from The Lady of the Lake, I believe.

And totally agree with the beard/long hair. He looked much better. More regal.

19:00 / 22.01.05

Bah. I hated the beard and the long hair... I can't see how that would function well underwater.

If I wrote Aquaman I'd just make it a bit of a wacky 60's-esque pop comic, laced with some neat modern edge. I agree it would make a potent fantasy comic as well, and one would have to put some of those elements in there... but hell, Aquaman's always been pretty goofy, and I'd rather embrace that than overcompensate and shoot for the complete opposite of that, like David did.

19:08 / 22.01.05

Oh, and here's Aparo being forced to draw Sgt. Rock kill Batman.

20:12 / 22.01.05

i like Aquaman with the beard and long hair. sorry, i know.

i do agree about no one taking advantage of the underwater setting. here's my take on the issue: in the real world, the deep sea is at least as weird and interesting as an area of exploration as space. they should write Earth's oceans in the DCU the way they write space or alternate dimensions. it's a huge canvas no one plays with.

01:53 / 23.01.05

wow, that Rock/Aparo/Batman cover is wonderfully bizarre...does it have anything to do with the actual story inside?

02:41 / 23.01.05

I have no clue... I've never read the issue, but I saw the cover years ago and it stuck in my head. When it was mentioned here, I knew exactly what to look for.

04:03 / 23.01.05

Aquaman beard and long hair - I always thought that it worked underwater as a way of getting nutriants out of the water (I can't remember ever seeing him eat).

07:20 / 23.01.05

On Aquarthur:
Maybe I'm Veitch-ing it up, but if I had the opportunity to re-Crisis the DCU, I'd make Arthur a central-periphery character, similar to Nick Fury in Marvel. Here's a telepathic ruler of an invisible kingdom decended from mythological Atlantis. Aquaman should be the 21st century face of the Illuminati. He knows things the others don't or just can't. He's got treaties with aliens, and trade with the Vatican. Maybe I'm Ellis-ing instead.

Still, I like Jack Fear's ideas better. Kids gotta buy these things.

Also: How would Mr. Fear salvage Princess Diana from Olympian gods and the American flag?

11:03 / 24.01.05

Finder: I wrote a bit about the Batman/Rock story previously in this very thread. That's what makes the joke funny.

12:50 / 24.01.05

Chad: Your take on Aquaman sounds pretty interesting as wel... but again, it's not really a super-hero story, is it? There are a lot of interesting ways to write the character, but to have him battling drug dealers in the mean canals of Sub Diego—come on.

And the magic water-hand... oy. I'll never understand why DC can't just leave well enough alone, instead of heaping piles of needless backstory onto their characters. Hawkman is another one: incredibly simple concept, really—either the Golden Age Carter Hall (a reincarnated Egyptian pharaoah) or the Silver Age Katar Hol (an alien cop come to Earth to study our law-enforcement methods). Even Tim Truman's HAWKWORLD retcon worked, giving the character more of an agenda and tying him even further to pulp sci-fi.

Since then, though, the character has been tinkered with almost beyond recognition, with a backstory so convoluted I can't even begin to spell it out.

As for Wonder Woman: a lot of people see the Greek myth stuff as a liability, but frankly I think it's an asset. Wonder Woman should be more like Marvel's Thor in his 60s-70s heyday—having rip-roaring myth-based adventures across time and space.

The American-flag drag is a bummer, I'll admit. I'd put her in armor, instead: there were a lot of things that I hated about Kingdom Come, but the sight of Diana with a sword, kicking ass in golden plate-mail, was not one of 'em.

13:25 / 24.01.05

As for Wonder Woman: a lot of people see the Greek myth stuff as a liability, but frankly I think it's an asset. Wonder Woman should be more like Marvel's Thor in his 60s-70s heyday—having rip-roaring myth-based adventures across time and space.

i think "rip-roaring" is the key here. i think what we get too much of with Diana is very solemn, serious (read: boring) divine melodrama.

15:18 / 24.01.05

Actually, I think a combination of Jack's, Mac's, and Chad's ideas would be, well, the Best Aquaman Ever. ...and sure, throw in wacky 60's pop like Topo-the-octopus and give Arthur a hardass militaristic rival with the name 'Aquamarine.'

As for Wonder Woman, I think Rucka had a good idea, turning her into an actual ambassador, bridging the Greek myths with the modern cynical world, but hell, that same premise can be used for Aquaman if you change around a few words (in fact, it was, back in the early 90's). What Diana needs to do first is dump the ugly costume and either fully accept or totally dispel the lesbian notion. The "magic virgin" thing worked in the 50's but nowadays it seems just a little silly. Hell, you could marry her off to Aquaman and combine two separate below-average-sales series into one solid-sales series. Though it could piss off the "diehard fans."

I think Wonder Woman really needs a good high concept injection... Perhaps one could make her some kind of cosmic super-archaeologist, uncovering lost civilizations, battling animated dragon skeletons and miniature sentient black holes and the like... but this could take her out of most of her "element," which is the Greek myth/Paradise Island stuff. So really, writing Wonder Woman would be the greatest challenge in the comics world, I think.

15:19 / 24.01.05

Here Here!

I was going to add all this recent political CRAP they're throwing her into as an "ambassador" for 'forced peace". RIP-ROARING Princess Diana, like 60s-70s Thor? I'm imagining an invisible space ship with guest spots by Beta Ray Troia.

Personally, I felt the flag retcon by Perez with Mrs. Trevor and the Hecatonchire was pretty damned swell. But Diana's strange juxtaposition of perennial superego, universal morality, and ancient "law" is a problem because she's all madonna and no whore. Still, if she was having mythic battles on the bleed edge of the Immateria, all things work.

The more I look at it, the more ABC makes absolute sense.

16:56 / 24.01.05

Ooooh!

What did you hate about Kingdom Come, Mr. Fear?

A beautiful tunnel of ghosts

19:03 / 24.01.05

BillR: I think Wonder Woman really needs a good high concept injection... Perhaps one could make her some kind of cosmic super-archaeologist, uncovering lost civilizations, battling animated dragon skeletons and miniature sentient black holes and the like...

IMO, you're describing Jakita Wagner from Planetary.

19:14 / 24.01.05

Mmm. I thought so... Never read Planetary myself.

22:28 / 28.01.05

So...

If Lex Luthor is to Superman as Joker is to Batman as Circe is to Wonder Woman...

Who is blank to Aquaman? to Green Lantern? to Flash? to Martian Manhunter?

23:15 / 28.01.05

This isn't a necessarily big challenge.

Aquaman has two major archenemies, and, well, no minor enemies. I'd say his biggest nemesis is Black Manta, because this is the "bad mofo" (as the kids say today) that killed his son, drove his wife from him, attacked Poseidonis, drove him into a murderous rage, died, came back, etc. Then there's Ocean Master, Arthur's evil half-brother who, um, hates him, and stuff.

Green Lantern? Sinestro, easily. He never ever dies forever, and I think he's coming back soon, or has already. Eh, I know, but them's the breaks. That's Hal's baddie, anyway. Kyle's was probably Major Force, who killed his girlfriend and stuffed her into a fridge (thus sparking 'Women in Refrigerators.') John and Guy and Kilowog don't really have enemies.

Flash? Zoom. Bam, another easy one. Runner-ups are probably Captain Cold and Mirror Master... I also like Abra Kadabra. And Gorilla Grodd... Flash is the DC character with the best rogues gallery outside of Batman.

Martian Manhunter? I don't think the dude has *any* villains. Beats me.

Wonder Woman's top villain is Circe? Hmm. Don't see it. I mean, there's also... um, Cheetah... but I didn't think she had much of an archnemesis. Ares? I dunno.

So how about Green Arrow? Atom (I'ma say Chronos...)? Hawkman? Firestorm? Heh.

00:13 / 29.01.05

Yeah, Ares is pretty obv. for WW.

GM had Jemm, Son of Saturn co-opted into his Injustice League as the MM adversary. Given that J'Onn has had about 30 issues of his own comic (as opposed to the hundreds everyone els has had,) it does make it harder.

I'd read a J'Onn book with a decent team, I really would. He's prolly my fave DC character.

00:20 / 29.01.05

J'onn's in my top three DC favorites, along with, hmm, Elongated Man, and probably Wally West as the Flash. Aquaman makes the top five. ...the other one is probably Batman.

J'emm was a bad guy, was he? Always assumed he was a good 'un. He had a maxi-series way back in the 80's or so... didn't he? No idea who/what he is besides a J'onn rip-off.

02:04 / 29.01.05

J'emm was brainwashed.

02:31 / 29.01.05

Yes, hence the word 'co-opted.'

He did have a maxiseries, which I'm certainly not brave enough to expend my cash on. Wasn't apostrophised in 'Rock of Ages'.

02:54 / 29.01.05

J'onn's villians are JLA villians. The White Martians for example. And Despero held J'onn captive for serveral years, I believe.

03:27 / 29.01.05

Ahh, yes, Despero. I have one of those old JLA's with him and J'onn in some lethal chess match. Pre-Crisis Despero liked those. And Post-Crisis, J'onn and Despero throwing down circa Giffen's JLA #38. Yeah, I can see that. Hmm.

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