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DC Universe Surgery

  
  

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miss wonderstarr
22:18 / 03.11.04
I have another topical presidential question. I understand there was a DC character called "Prez", who was brought back for an episode of Sandman -- he was a teenage president.

My question is!
would this be legal? Someone told me this week there was a minimum age to serve as US president.
 
 
LDones
01:57 / 04.11.04
kovacs:

Part of Prez's character-conceit was that the legal presidential age was altered to 18 after Nixon left the White House in disgrace, opening the way for Prez to run. At least in the Gaiman-Sandman iteration, it was partially a youth-takes-future-by-the-horns vibe. Until his girlfriend is burtally murdered, anyway. :|
 
 
Lord Morgue
06:40 / 04.11.04
Ahem. As far as the Mite and the Myxyz go, I draw the jurylith's attention to EXHIBIT B, Evan Dorkin's "World's Funnest", where in the course of an idiotic arguement over who's tougher, Superman or Batman, the imps not only manage to kill Batman, Superman, Robin, Batgirl, Lois Lane, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen, Supergirl, Superdog, Supermonkey, Superhorse, Batwoman and the entire Justice League including Snapper Carr, but destroy the Universe, before going on to destroy Earth 2, Earth 3, Earth X, Earth Prime, Earth C, Dark Knight Earth, Crisis, Kingdom Come, OMAC Earth, Super Friends Earth, Batman Adventures Earth, 30th Century Earth, Shazam Earth, and the present day D.C. Universe. And the Phantom Zone. And the 5th Dimension. And the actual real-life Earth. Before restoring it all and promising to do it all again same time next week.
Mxy only loses because he adheres to the rules he spuriously sets, and the Mite doesn't actually fight much, he just stalks Batman.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:14 / 04.11.04
would this be legal? Someone told me this week there was a minimum age to serve as US president.

The minimum age for a serving US President is 35. This is based on the Roman constitution. In practice it's a non-issue because no modern president could possible accumulate the experience or the contacts by 35 to run for the Presidency. Prez Rickard was elected in a world where this stricture was repealed, and battled the forces of reaction with his trusty Native American bodyguard. No, really. It is better remembered than read.
 
 
_Boboss
07:36 / 04.11.04
alan grant wrote the o'neil batmite story. i got it cheapo just the other week, he can make even grant look like a brilliant storyteller.
 
 
Mr Tricks
18:00 / 04.11.04
I liked that WORLD'S FINEST story . . .
"It's called Tripping"

heyk!!!
 
 
twomenwalkingabreast
06:27 / 08.11.04
An abscess, which I believe will come to be discovered as an infection caused by a destressed lifeform, one which I suspect will untimiately be revealed to be Kyle Rayner, seems to have burrowed into the dark corners of my mouth. There, he lies in a nest made from the gingival matter of my mouth. To complicate matters he creates an infection, one deep, very deep, and far, far below the gumline ofmy front inscisors. His presence compromises my oral hygiene and could lead to many more dangers!

A rescue operation has been attempted. My gums were peeleed away from their former and quite honestly, much prefferred! positions at the base if the teeth .

The area was scraped, cleansed, repaired, and the gums were closed again.

The wounds begin to heal at a slow rate. But had Rayner truly been removed from his unfortunate resting spot? Or was he there....lurking....waiting.....growning stronger...and was he simply waiting to return???
 
 
Warewullf
17:27 / 08.11.04
Supergirl's back.
What is her connection to the original (did she exist after the Crisis?) and what happened to the other Supergirl (Matrix or whatever she was called. The Earth-Angel?)?
 
 
LDones
19:49 / 08.11.04
(Ahem)

The first Post-Crisis Supergirl was a weird shapechanging lifeform called Matrix, created by an alternate dimension's Lex Luthor (the dimension where General Zod & his cronies conquered the Earth and Superman was forced to murder them - Lex Luthor was a good guy here). Superman brought the Matrix-beast-thing back to this dimension after saving its life and killing Zod, and it decided to become Supergirl.

LATER, Supergirl ended up 'merging' with troubled teen Linda Danvers, and that kicked off some bizarre series of adventures written by Peter David about Supergirl being an Angel and fighting lots of demons. A version of the Pre-Crisis Supergirl showed up for awhile & hung out with the Linda Danvers/Matrix/Earth-Angel Supergirl, but then the Pre-Crisis one had to die to keep time from unravelling. The Linda Danvers Supergirl then gave up her angel powers shortly thereafter and wandered off into obscurity.

THEN, during Steve Seagle's really-quite-terrible Superman run from a year or so back, a new Supergirl from the future named Cir-El showed up in Metropolis, a pawn of beings known as the Futuresmiths - she had Superman's DNA, but was actually a host for Braniac (who had disguised himself as the Futuresmiths) to make yet another bid for the timestream. She sacrificed her life or was terminated as part of Braniac's plan (hard to tell, really) in a really abysmal storyline in Superman #200.

NOW, the new Supergirl is apparently actually Kara Zor-El from Krypton, and fell to earth in Superman/Batman #8, a fragment of the Kryptonite asteroid that was destroyed by Captain Atom in Superman/Batman #6, which was actually a vehicle for her to make it to Earth safely. Batman thought she was a fake and a weapon, but still got into a fistfight with Darkseid so Superman could save her after she had been brainwashed into becoming a Female Fury. It looked like Darkseid killed her when she returned to Earth, but they faked her death and imprisoned Darkseid in the Source Wall (again) after a pitifully boring fight with Superman, and now she's Supergirl.

(phew)
 
 
FinderWolf
20:14 / 08.11.04
The Jeph Loeb/Michael Turner arc "introducing" the "new, original" Supergirl really sucked (one low point was Superman hitting Darkseid screaming "SHUT THE HELL UP!!!" -- I kid you not, go to your local comics store and check out the most recent issue if you don't believe me, another low point was Harbinger from Crisis giggling like a Valley Girl schoolgirl, exhorting Kara Zor-El to "Kick his butt, Kara!!").

Even though the story & art sucked, it is kinda fun to have a Supergirl back in the DCU.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
09:21 / 12.11.04
Superman said something like Supergirl might actually be more powerful that him in Supes/Bats no 12

Why?

was it because she was augmented by Darkseid or some other reason? If they come from the same Krypton, why and how would a teenage girl/woman be stronger than a 30' ish something male?


I can only think it is with Darkseid's intervention but I might be wrong and I haven't collected my comics order for sometime so haven't the issue to hand for confirmation
 
 
hachiman
11:57 / 12.11.04
Re: Supes vs Marvel, i thought that Kingdom Come and later DC One Million was pretty conclusive in establishing that the older supes gets, the more powerful he will become, with no upper limit, cause he's immortal. Marvel may be as powerful or more so than Kal right now, but he, and everybody else lacks trhe ability to keep up with Supes power curve as Superman Prime's eventual existence will testify.
Aklso there's no way that Supergirl can be more powerful than Supes as the Man Of Steel miniseries and World of Krypton established that while all Kryptonians were genetically enhanced as a result of a 100000 year old breeding program, Kal-El, as the child of Jor-El and Lara was the most genetically perfect Kryptonian possible, and therefore his ability to store and utilize solar energy is unmatched, so NYAH!! to you Jeph Loeb
 
 
X-Himy
12:07 / 12.11.04
I think what Kingdom Come might say is that Supes has stored a great deal more yellow sunlight. Take him away from the sunlight for a century or so, and he would probably metabolize it all. And I am not sure if he gets strong, certainly not "push the moon" strong (though being that it is Mark Waid, you never know). Rather I think the idea was that he gets more invulnerable. Why do I say that? It just seems that way.

As for DC One Million, who knows? Perhaps his transformation is something of a reverse Final Night/restarting the sun deal. Maybe living in the very center of the sun and its gravitic pull/radiation is what caused Superman Gold.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
13:39 / 12.11.04
thanks

I just don't know what rationale they gave for Supes to be somehow less powerful....it didn't make sense to me unless you figure in the possibility that Darkseid enhanced her somehow.....much as the Hulk was powered up in that issue where he stopped the unstoppable Juggernauts' forward momentum (sorry for bringing Marvel onto this thread)


I loved DC one million. Thought it was one of the few crossovers that actually worked and was worth the effort

Usual Morrison weirdness and crazy ideas ......great
 
 
Benny the Ball
13:53 / 12.11.04
Supergirl, augmented by Darkseid - never knew he had it in him.

As for Superman, would his powers decrease as our own sun dies? Or would he have enough of a store of power to make it to the next yellow sun and be powerful once more? (there was a line in an issue I flicked through recently where he says to a bunch of elemnets that if they killed people he would destroy them and then the world and then leave to find another home or something - I really don't follow superman too clearly) How far did he make it in his early nineties exile?
 
 
Joetheneophyte
14:00 / 12.11.04
Superman went through a couiple of wormholes if I remember correctly so he went pretty far (I cannot remember whether this was through technological means.....he may have had a belt from the Omega men that helped him traverse great distances)

Sadly, Superman in those days was a lot less powerful and needed an oxygen mask in space. In my opinion, this was a terrible idea and these days, whilst never truly retconned, he can either go much longer periods without oxygen or my favourite explanation, out of Earth's atmosphere, his body gets a bigger dose of Solar radiation and as such he doesn't need to breathe at all

I have no problem with Superman being the numero uno powerhouse in the hero field in the DCU. I like him being there ....though I do like that the Flash is faster and that people like Cap Marvel can go toe to toe with him.

I hate the way Darkseid has been weakened though. He is overused (DC has piss poor Cosmic powered threats compared to MARVEL IMO)

Worse, the Darkseid of yore (LSH DARKNESS RISING SAGA) was truly frightening. Now, even Superboy and Batman disrespect him. A sad decline in portrayal
 
 
FinderWolf
16:51 / 18.11.04
The new issue of Teen Titans, written by Geoff Johns, which features the Titans going into the future and meeting yes, their darker, gritter future selves, has the future Batman (Tim Drake) mention the Crisis and how all the heroes got darker because of it. Just another little hint that DC is planting a new Crisis in 2005, to be written by Geoff Johns as the rumors indicate, to celebrate the 20th anniversary of Crisis. Although I hope this 'darkening of the DCU' is just a silly comment by future Batman, since Identity Crisis is quite dark (and poorly-written dark, at that) enough, thank you. (Since this Titans storyline involves the Titans rejecting the darker, more compromised values of their grim n'gritty possible future selves, I'm sure it doesn't mean that the new Crisis makes everyone all grim 'n' gritty)...
 
 
diz
17:30 / 18.11.04
Just another little hint that DC is planting a new Crisis in 2005, to be written by Geoff Johns as the rumors indicate, to celebrate the 20th anniversary of Crisis.

it seems like a lot of things are pushing in the direction of this new Crisis. the Titans storyline, Superman/Batman, probably GL: Rebirth.

in the Titans/Legion Special, while bouncing around time, the Titans see a flash of things which appear to be images from the Crisis, and Dr. Light is fairly prominent. since the issue of whether or not Tim will grow up to be a psycho like Batman seems to be related to both his father's death and the Crisis, and the Dr. Light brainwashing issue is unlikely to be decisively resolved in IC #7 and seems to be related to the Crisis, i think a lot of Identity Crisis may simply be set-up for next year's Crisis as well.

based on her prominence in the Superman/Batman series so far, i think it will also be the permanent return of Supergirl, which would be a nice piece of symmetry, if true.

also, speaking of symmetry, a lot of Identity Crisis seems to focus pretty heavily on the Flash, and Wally's reaction to Barry's actions with regard to Dr. Light is apparently becoming an issue in Flash, we may see some kind of major shake-ups in the Flash status quo as well.

Since this Titans storyline involves the Titans rejecting the darker, more compromised values of their grim n'gritty possible future selves, I'm sure it doesn't mean that the new Crisis makes everyone all grim 'n' gritty

the current storyline in Robin also revolves around his rejection of Batman's dark-and-gloomy path, despite everything he's gone through recently. War Games happened in the space of, like, three days, and it seems Identity Crisis happened immediately afterwards, so in the space of about a week and a half poor Tim's girlfriend and his dad have both been killed in unrelated incidents. it's all so over-the-top as to be stupid, but if they are going this way, i like that it's being set up so that the whole point is that Tim doesn't turn out like Bruce. Tim even tells Bruce flat-out that these tragedies are not going to turn him into a copy of Batman. i hope he's right.
 
 
rabideyemovement
02:29 / 19.11.04
So is the Lee from Peter David's Fallen Angel another incarnation of the Matrix-Supergirl?
 
 
_Boboss
08:21 / 19.11.04
questy: now that he's over his terminal illness and that, (or is he?)what, in proper normal today-style dcu, does batman make of the joker's origin and history? does he know that he used to be the red hood, or is the secret between jokes and the reader? in batman black and white they had a few cool, conflicting jopker origin stories, but what's canon?
 
 
hachiman
10:51 / 19.11.04
For me, the definitive post crisis Joker origin remains LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHT #50. Not only does Bats figure out that the Joker is the Red Hood, but there is a classic line at the end stating, "Well, that's the last we'll be seeing of him then. Nice Denny O'Neil story, but Bret Blevins art is not my cup of tea.
 
 
Jack Fear
11:20 / 19.11.04
I actually always liked that there was no "definitive" backstory for the Joker, and that we never knew his real name. It added to the utter bugfuck craziness of his character. As he himself put it in The Killing Joke, "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another--If I have to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple-choice!"

I dig that. I dig that it calls into question the objective "truth" even of the flashback scenes of The Killing Joke itself, the Joker being perhaps the ultimate unreliable narrator. He's a clever man, that Albert Morse.

That said, I did like Giorgio Morricone's nod to Killing Joke's version of the Joker's origin in Arkham Asylum, with the punchline "April Fool! Your wife is dead and the baby's a spastic!"
 
 
_Boboss
11:46 / 19.11.04
yeah sure i definitely don't want him to have a 'real name' like jack napier or whatever, i'm just interested really whether batman actually knows that he's directly responsible for making him (that's if the red-hood-chemical plant raid story is the one we want) but likesay i'm happy to have lots of question marks hanging over the place. i know that's more the riddler's style...

bought the milligan/fegredo scarecrow one-off from a few years ago cheapy the other day. scarecrow gets dissed by a young female student who just can't see what's so scary about him. riddler's all 'what's full of straw and can't even scare a girl?' it's great.
 
 
Benny the Ball
13:36 / 19.11.04
The Milligan Riddler story is one of my favourites, from Detective Comics, circ, umm, 1993-94 ish I think. Called Dark something or other.

I think Mignola did the art as well, which was nice.
 
 
_Boboss
14:04 / 19.11.04
dark knight, dark city. good nastybats era stuff. kieron dwyer?
 
 
Lord Morgue
06:33 / 23.11.04
Okay. Absolute Übergeek question here. What happened to the original Nightwing? The Kandorian superhero fighting crime in the minuturised city in a bottle, with his buddy Sunbird? They had rocket belts allowing them to fly, since no-one in Kandor had superpowers.
Pre-Crisis, didn't Superman unshrink Kandor onto an alien planet, accidentally destroying the city and all the Kandorian's technology, leaving them powerless and without resources on a desert planet, which promptly disappeared through a dimesional warp? Now that's the kind of SUPER FUCK UP usually reserved for the imaginary stories.
 
 
_Boboss
08:39 / 23.11.04
under the simulated red sun of kandor, supes loses his powers. so when he shrinks down for a visit to kandor with lois or jimmy in tow, he straps on some laser rockets and becomes nightwing (and sunbird). is that not it? is krypto-nightwing actually a seperate person?
 
 
Jack Fear
11:14 / 23.11.04
It's FLAMEbird, and no, AFAIK Superman and Jimmy weren't basing their "secret identities" on any existing Kandorian figures. If anything, the whole Nightwing masquerade was a chance for Superman to play at being Batman.
 
 
fluid_state
11:40 / 23.11.04
Hey, that aforementioned Milligan Riddler story, is that the one where he's kidnapping babies? I remember a sequence where he throws one into the path of the oncoming Batmobile, and thought "Damn. Riddler's hardcore." Only got one issue, though.
 
 
Benny the Ball
13:42 / 23.11.04
It is - forces bat's to perform a trachiotomy on the little tyke as well.
 
 
Warewullf
19:55 / 23.11.04
Just re-read Rock of Ages and a question has occured:

How did Dr. Light go from (I assume Neron-powered) flaming-head, over-worked costume guy to simpering idiot, old costume guy in Identity Crisis?
 
 
Lord Morgue
07:35 / 24.11.04
I'm sure there were a pair of native Kandorians using the Nightwing and Firebird identities- I've got an old story somewhere where one of them has a good Green Arrow-style rant about his criminal past, and there was nary a mention of Superman or Jimmy Olsen. They fought a badguy dressed as Krypton's version of Robin Hood, a gimmicky archer, if that helps ring anyone's bells... Couldn't tell you the year or issue, or even what book, because it was in one of those big Federal Press reprint anthologies we used to get in Australia in the Eighties.
 
 
The Falcon
00:25 / 25.11.04
I thought Nightwing and Flamebird were like Kryptonian/Kandorian radio-play (or holo-play, whatever,) characters, whose mantle Superman and Jimmy assumed?
 
 
Lord Morgue
06:22 / 25.11.04
This archer guy had a cool trick- a super-adhesive rocket arrow designed specially for that one smartarse who catches your arrows. It sticks to your hand and takes off with you in tow like Wile E. Coyote!
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
08:49 / 25.11.04
From Titans Tower


Nightwing & Flamebird: The Origin of the Names
-------------------------
Superman as Nightwing, Jimmy Olsen as Flamebird

First Appearance: Superman as Nightwing, Jimmy Olsen as Flamebird: SUPERMAN #158


When some citizens of the bottle-city of Kander enlarged themselves and stole certain elements Superman and Jimmy Olsen entered the bottle-city to investigate. There, a friend of Jor-El's, Nor-Kann, warned them of danger. It seems same Kandorians believed Superman had away of enlarging the city and had wIthheld it from them.

Forced to hide as a fugitive, Superman decided he and Jimmy should adapt disguises like those of Batman and Robin. Nor provided them with a secret cave, now called the Nightcave. Since there are no bats or robins among Kandor's Kryptonian wildlife, they modeled their outfits on those of two Kryptonian birds, nightwing and flamebird. When Superman, trying to pass himself off as his look-alike, Van-Zee [a Kryptonian scientist], was captured, Van dressed as the first time as Nightwing to rescue him.

Twice more, Superman and Jimmy battled menaces In Kandor as Nightwing and Flamebird, the second time with Batman and Robin along. It was this experience that inspired Dick Grayson, some time later, to adopt the identity of Earth's Nightwing when he gave up his Robin ID.

Van-Zee as Nightwing, Ak-Var as Flamebird

First Appearance: Van-Zee as Nightwing, Ak-Var as Flamebird: SUPERMAN FAMILY #183
Appeared as back-up strip in SUPERMAN FAMILY from #183-194

Ak-Var was a young thief sentenced to the Phantom Zone as punishment. Freed by Superman when his sentence was up, he wanted to live in Kandor and married Van-Zee's niece Thara. He also went to work as Van-Zee's lab assistant. The duo assumed the Nightwing and Flamebird identities and began battling crime. Once, when Superman and Jimmy were in the bottle-city, the two Nightwlng-Flamebird teams worked together.

Neither team had super-powers, as Superman, lost his while in the bottle, but all four are superb athletes and skilled at hand-to-hand combat. They also have their Night-mobile, their jets, and special utility bolts fitted with various scientific devices. Generally, however, they prefer to use their own fists to subdue criminals.

Current Continuity: Nightwing, the Kryptonian hero of legend

First Appearance: Nightwing Secret Files #1

Nightwing Secret Files #1 features a story that takes place just after Batman has 'fired' Dick Grayson as Robin, and Dick Grayson is doing some soul searching. He encounters Superman, who tells him a story of a Kryptonian Legendary hero...

"There was a man on my homeworld many centuries before my birth who was cast out of his family as you were. He dreamt of justice. He dreamt of helping the weak. He dreamt of showing his family that he was better than they gave him credit for. He used his talents and his skills to fight for those who couldn't fight for themselves. He became a legend."

"No one knew his real name. He was called only - Nightwing."

Dick's reply: "I like it." And an inspiration for a new legend is born.

Current Continuity: Nightwing & Flamebird

In Secret Origins Annual #3, George Perez told the post-Crisis history of the Titans. Perez: "I'm writing a Secret Origins Annual of the Titans, while Marv writes the Titans Annual. My origin will establish the post-Crisis origin of the middle Titans; the one with Golden Eagle and Bumblebee. I'll establish who existed and who didn't, what powers they had, and how visually they might be different."

This issue includes the first appearance of Flamebird (Post-Crisis Retcon of Bat-Girl). Borrowing the name of the Kryptonian side-kick, George Perez reinvented Bette Kane as a Robin groupie who entered the hero game as a chance to meet him.

In 2001, Superman traveled back in time to Krypton in a 4 part story called "Return to Krypton." In part three, [Superman: The Man of Steel #111] Clark and Lois [now fugitives] adopt the identity of Kryptonian heroes Nightwing and Flamebird to survive. Lois and a powerless Superman, adopting the names Nightwing and Flamebird, travel to the proto-tombs of Xan to retrieve an ore that will allow them to return home. This story establishes Flamebird as part of the [current continuity] Nightwing Kryptonian lore.

A Kandorian refers to Nightwing & Flamebird as "great Kandorian heroes of myth." And Superman explains to Lois, "Nightwing and Flamebird - my earthly associates - took their names from Kryptonian tales I related."
 
  

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